The Spirited 8th Wonder (WDW's Future & You!)

[lazyboy97o]

No, I just think the company is doing really well and I feel like you're more like TMZ and i'm more like CNBC. Yes sure there is drama in the company, there is drama at executive levels (and other levels) of all companies. I'm sure you've read biographies of Walt & Roy - their lives were filled with drama, they went months without even talking to each other.

The fact remains the company is doing extremely well, the attractions they are building now are good quality, and they are actively working on major overhauls for 3 of the parks at WDW (there are project teams for Star Wars, Epcot, and DAK is in the middle of constructing its big expansion). I'm not saying the place is perfect, there are many things that me off about it (such as the small portions of food that you pay $10 for at many restaurants, Space Mountain being old and rough, and everything about the TTC), but to me WDW is still by far the best place in the world to visit and they have been heading in the right direction the past few years from a strategy point of view.

Sure HP was a huge success but I also think adding a lot of much needed capacity to Fantasyland, MM+, Rivers of Light/Night Safari/Avatar expansion, Disney Springs, etc are all good things and are in no way cheap. Then after this "round" there is clearly a lot more on the table that is going to be coming as the Star Wars movies are released and we start to find out what these WDI people on the "Epcot Project" have been up to.

Some possible new things a decade out do not a major overhaul make.

 

[xstech25]

When I register for things like this, I do what I suspect many others do and pull down the dropdown box and click the first one my mouse goes over

Regarding the other conversation going on this topic, timeshares is not an industry I particularly care for and if people start telling me how much money they've spent on theirs I actually feel kind of bad for them. If someoene were to do that to me at a hotel pool i'd probably say "oh thats nice" and move on with my day...as George Carlin would say, "don't tell me about your problems, lady!"

 

[Cesar R M]

I'm not trolling, i'm trying to point out a serious observation I have. You constantly talk about the people who run Disney like they're some kind of morons that can't manage their way out of a cardboard box. This is a real business and these people have to deal with real problems. If you're so good at running a multi-billion dollar operation with over 60,000 employees then why aren't you doing it? Everyone is entitled to their opinions, but your personal attacks on people are generally uncalled for, you're constantly bashing the properties executives as being unintelligent even though many of them started as front-line employees and worked their way through college/grad schools and know the parks and their business better than you ever will. It's really just pathetic.

The saddest thing is the most important thing is the thing you chose to ignore, which is the fact that while yes they make some mistakes along the way, in general Disney's upper management has been doing a phenomenal job. I'm sorry sir, but you just can't argue with the market.

that growth looks so ridiculously high... makes me wonder if Iger is pulling a "sell fast as you can so I can retire, get all the money and then hope the company doesn't collapse".
It doesnt looks sustainable imho.

 

[Kuzcotopia]

This is one of the many reasons I love Disney - while many companies have hot shot execs that only care about their personal well being and short term profits, Disney has been making moves that set them up for long term success and their management team is clearly in it for the long haul (even after Bob retires, he has a significant stake in the companies long term success). Marvel, Lucasfilm, huge theme park in Shanghai....they now have an enormous arsenal of what you could say is long term "money-making stuff."

Topicality. This website is called WDWMagic. . . not DisneyDiversifiedHoldings.com. You have not yet spoken of Disney's management of WDW speficially. There are alot of smart people on these boards who have patiently explained the details of those financials, from every angle. Yes, Disney as a whole may be increasing profits and looking at long term investments, but that does not mean WDW itself is sharing in that investment or optimism.

If anything, these moves you're describing may divert even more attention away from the theme parks in Florida.

 

[71jason]

$8,500 for a week in Orlando isn't outrageous?!?! I could travel the world in Faux Top One Percent style for MONTHS on that amount.

For $8,500, you could pretty much rent a furnished apartment in a decent Orlando neighborhood for a year and buy an AP.

 

[stevehousse]

Or you could have taken at least 3 1 week trips staying at a value resort!

 

[PhotoDave219]

No, I just think the company is doing really well and I feel like you're more like TMZ and i'm more like CNBC. Yes sure there is drama in the company, there is drama at executive levels (and other levels) of all companies. I'm sure you've read biographies of Walt & Roy - their lives were filled with drama, they went months without even talking to each other.

The fact remains the company is doing extremely well, the attractions they are building now are good quality, and they are actively working on major overhauls for 3 of the parks at WDW (there are project teams for Star Wars, Epcot, and DAK is in the middle of constructing its big expansion). I'm not saying the place is perfect, there are many things that me off about it (such as the small portions of food that you pay $10 for at many restaurants, Space Mountain being old and rough, and everything about the TTC), but to me WDW is still by far the best place in the world to visit and they have been heading in the right direction the past few years from a strategy point of view.

Sure HP was a huge success but I also think adding a lot of much needed capacity to Fantasyland, MM+, Rivers of Light/Night Safari/Avatar expansion, Disney Springs, etc are all good things and are in no way cheap. Then after this "round" there is clearly a lot more on the table that is going to be coming as the Star Wars movies are released and we start to find out what these WDI people on the "Epcot Project" have been up to.

Overhauls?

Thats funny.

 

[NeXuS1000]

$8,500 for a week in Orlando isn't outrageous?!?! I could travel the world in Faux Top One Percent style for MONTHS on that amount. BTW, since you are from Denmark (I hear it is lovely there. I've never been yet.) perhaps you don't realize that the average American makes about $26,000 a year. So, roughly, a third of an average American's annual salary is what you're blowing in a week at Dizzy World.

Just some perspective.

Remember it's $8,500 for 5 people, i.e. $1,700 pr. person. That's still a lot of money, but not outrageous, IMO, when you consider it includes lodging, activities (i.e. park entries) and dining.

So yeah, I'm blowing roughly 6,5% of an average american's salary for that week, but then again, wasn't your point earlier that Deluxe resorts shouldn't really be for the average joe's?

$1,700 for person for lodging, activities and dining really isn't that crazy in the vacation world. We've done cheaper, yes, but there's far more outrageous vacation offers out there. Higher quality as well? Sure, but while I have yet to experience this upcoming week at WDW, my expecations are aligned with the price. Let's follow up on that when I'm back, shall we?

When economic turmoil hits, I'm not sure there ever is a better cushion since Disney isn't 'saving' the money it is making on DVC for a rainy day. DVC made a blankload of money say in 2004 ... do you know where that money is today?

No, I don't, but I would love to know.

My point still wasn't about saving up money (although I'm sure Disney has a nice little capital cushion), but about the recurrence DVC creates. There's the annual fees and the continuous attendance, meaning continuous activities in the parks etc., at least to a large degree. I'm certain that a big part of why Disney wanted something like DVC was to "lock" down people to use Disney as their vacation destination every year or so, meaning more pr. guest capita spending.

Because it worked perfectly for roughly 25-30 years at WDW. They broke what worked and are breaking it more now to fix a problem they created.

That's not really an argument though, is it? Throughout history, many things that worked in the past suddenly stop working due to changes in various parts of the landscape.

We can agree that Disney went just a liiiitle too aggressive on expansions at certain points, making them very fragile to economic turmoil, causing the 9/11 situation to have a substantial impact. But what does that have to do with DVC?

Right. Nobody in Denmark ever is!

Come on, let's not get into this. My point was; I was being passive aggressive, and you became passive aggressive, and there's no point in that. There's no point in what you just wrote, bringing my country into the picture (yes, there's plenty of passive aggressiveness here... what does that have to do with anything?)

I tend to respond when people quote my posts if I feel it is needed.

And it sure seems like you've read far more than you say ...

As you should... I didn't quote you in my initial post though. I only quoted you after you responded to my question.

WDW has always been a vacation resort. But some people seem to think vacation means anything goes. It doesn't or it shouldn't. You want to go to a nice restaurant at WDW? Other than V&A's, a suit of any kind isn't required. But you sure as (blank) shouldn't show up in cheap shorts, a Grumpy tee and flip-flops and think that's fine.

Again, I've seen plenty of clothing restrictions when making reservations to their signature dining experiences - and IIRC, it's even more strict for V&A than for others. And those clothing restrictions seem fine to me. I.e. you can wear shorts and a t-shirt (this is Florida, a pretty hot place... I'm not going to wear anything but t-shirts).

What I can't comment on, of course, is whether or not Disney actually upholds those restrictions, and if they do, then I agree that it's very bad practice.

 

[Longhairbear]

I was just on another site that has a new thread on the refurb of VWL. In a nutshell, it was done on the cheap, and is already showing. Paint peeling off the cabinets, 2 different kinds of door pulls on cabinets next to each other etc. And there were pics to prove it. This is a DVC site, and members have taken the blinders off in that thread. They are not happy, and lots of mention of member fees going up, and lining of executives' pockets with bonuses. And of course, the watering down of the theming.

 

[ParentsOf4]

No, I just think the company is doing really well and I feel like you're more like TMZ and i'm more like CNBC. Yes sure there is drama in the company, there is drama at executive levels (and other levels) of all companies. I'm sure you've read biographies of Walt & Roy - their lives were filled with drama, they went months without even talking to each other.

The fact remains the company is doing extremely well, the attractions they are building now are good quality, and they are actively working on major overhauls for 3 of the parks at WDW (there are project teams for Star Wars, Epcot, and DAK is in the middle of constructing its big expansion). I'm not saying the place is perfect, there are many things that me off about it (such as the small portions of food that you pay $10 for at many restaurants, Space Mountain being old and rough, and everything about the TTC), but to me WDW is still by far the best place in the world to visit and they have been heading in the right direction the past few years from a strategy point of view.

Sure HP was a huge success but I also think adding a lot of much needed capacity to Fantasyland, MM+, Rivers of Light/Night Safari/Avatar expansion, Disney Springs, etc are all good things and are in no way cheap. Then after this "round" there is clearly a lot more on the table that is going to be coming as the Star Wars movies are released and we start to find out what these WDI people on the "Epcot Project" have been up to.

In 2013, Disney's gross margin from all operations was 23.8% while its Parks & Resorts margin was 15.8%.

At Comcast, gross margin from all operations was 21.0%, while Theme Parks ran at 31.5%.

Uni's Theme Parks pulled the company up whereas Disney's P&R pulled the company down.

One Theme Parks organization is being run intelligently.

The other one is being run considerably less so.

 

[Nubs70]

And that is why we have to go to guest services to make sure the CM is complemented. I also send WDW and the DVC an email after every visit complementing the cast members who made my vacation great and only once did I complain about one. If you had someone stand out and do something special you have to let Disney know.

And if WDW follows LEAN to it's logical conclusion, the CM you compliment should be investigated and reprimanded if actions went beyond acceptable constraints. Time is money, wasted time is wasted money.

 

[NeXuS1000]

In 2013, Disney's gross margin from all operations was 23.8% while its Parks & Resorts margin was 15.8%.

At Comcast, gross margin from all operations was 21.0%, while Theme Parks ran at 31.5%.

Uni's Theme Parks pulled the company up whereas Disney's P&R pulled the company down.

One Theme Parks organization is being run intelligently.

The other one is being run considerably less so.

To be honest, it's not really possible to make a direct correlation like that.

There can be plenty of reasons why Disney's margin was so little, one of them being park and resorts re-investment, as well as regular maintenance and upkeep costs. Disney has a revenue in their P&R division almost 7 times larger than Comcast, and profit margins very, very rarely increases linearly with revenue, unless we're talking about virtual products like software. I.e. if Universal were to double their revenue, I highly doubt they would also double their profits, thus decreasing their profit margin.

If you want to extract "facts" from these numbers like that, I could also say that Comcast's profit margin proves that they charge their customers too much and doesn't spend enough on upkeep and maintenance. But I won't, because these numbers can't tell me that. Just as they can't tell me whether or not Disney is doing a better or worse job than Comcast at profiting from their P&R division.

 

[alphac2005]

i also want to add this: this prevailing sense of false elitism in DVC is very, very real. many members get off on telling you how many points they have, where they own, etc. the most common questions i heard my parents asked at the pool or in the hot tub when they struck up casual conversations with fellow members were: "how many points do you have?" or "where do you own?"

one of my favorite things would be when my mother would screw with people and tell them we owed some fabricated outlandish number points just to see them squirm.

I'm in a suburb of Atlanta that is the typical non-reality zone of America, where the vast majority of people think that the rest of the country is just like here, which is wayyyyyy far from reality. I see it here and I've heard it. Whether it's being a WDW Annual Passholder and having a decal on the car to being a DVC person with the license plate or wearing the clothing, the asinine bragging thing is real. It's quite pathetic if you ask me. Zillions of people that don't even have running water in the world and these types are trying to impress you with their Disney stuff. Ugh.

 

[ParentsOf4]

There can be plenty of reasons why Disney's margin was so little, one of them being park and resorts re-investment, as well as regular maintenance and upkeep costs. Disney has a revenue in their P&R division almost 7 times larger than Comcast, and profit margins very, very rarely increases linearly with revenue, unless we're talking about virtual products like software. I.e. if Universal were to double their revenue, I highly doubt they would also double their profits, thus decreasing their profit margin.

If you want to extract "facts" from these numbers like that, I could also say that Comcast's profit margin proves that they charge their customers too much and doesn't spend enough on upkeep and maintenance. But I won't, because these numbers can't tell me that. Just as they can't tell me whether or not Disney is doing a better or worse job than Comcast at profiting from their P&R division.

Disney's P&R investments in 2013 were at 15% while Uni's were at 26%.

Before Bob Iger took charge, Disney's P&R investments used to run over 25% every year, often above 30%.

Uni's Theme Parks margins are up exactly because they are investing in their product.

Disney's P&R's margins are down exactly because they are underinvesting in theirs.

 

[PrincessNelly_NJ]

So 2015 rates were released today.
Notice they decided to widen the pricing gap between moderates.
POR is now the most expensive, followed by POFQ, then CSR, and finally CBR.
I'm assuming this is not only to make more money but to deter people from POR & POFQ and push them towards CSR & CBR to boost occupancy rates at those two resorts.

Combined with not including POR & POFQ in free dining and CBR now being able to accommodate 5, does this decrease the chances of DVC at the moderates?

 

[baymenxpac]

No, I just think the company is doing really well and I feel like you're more like TMZ and i'm more like CNBC. Yes sure there is drama in the company, there is drama at executive levels (and other levels) of all companies. I'm sure you've read biographies of Walt & Roy - their lives were filled with drama, they went months without even talking to each other.

The fact remains the company is doing extremely well, the attractions they are building now are good quality, and they are actively working on major overhauls for 3 of the parks at WDW (there are project teams for Star Wars, Epcot, and DAK is in the middle of constructing its big expansion). I'm not saying the place is perfect, there are many things that me off about it (such as the small portions of food that you pay $10 for at many restaurants, Space Mountain being old and rough, and everything about the TTC), but to me WDW is still by far the best place in the world to visit and they have been heading in the right direction the past few years from a strategy point of view.

Sure HP was a huge success but I also think adding a lot of much needed capacity to Fantasyland, MM+, Rivers of Light/Night Safari/Avatar expansion, Disney Springs, etc are all good things and are in no way cheap. Then after this "round" there is clearly a lot more on the table that is going to be coming as the Star Wars movies are released and we start to find out what these WDI people on the "Epcot Project" have been up to.

if you are a financial advisor and professor, i really hope you don't confuse your opinions and inferences for facts, at least for your clients' and students' sake.

and i love WDW as much as the next poster on this site, but "by far the best place in the world to visit." good god, man. you need to get out more. although you do have a future of disney PR if you want it, because you're hitting talking points like mike trout crushes hanging sliders.

 

[flynnibus]

Notice they decided to widen the pricing gap between moderates.
POR is now the most expensive, followed by POFQ, then CSR, and finally CBR.
I'm assuming this is not only to make more money but to deter people from POR & POFQ and push them towards CSR & CBR to boost occupancy rates at those two resorts.

It's where the most capacity is... And they are the poster children for the negatives of the moderates (layout, etc).

But cbr just had refurbs not long ago while por has not

 

[PrincessNelly_NJ]

It's where the most capacity is... And they are the poster children for the negatives of the moderates (layout, etc).

But cbr just had refurbs not long ago while por has not

I never understood why CSR got bad reviews for the layout.. It didn't feel any bigger than POR to me and it doesn't share a bus with another resort. *shrugs*
I just wonder if they can boost occupancy rates by raising prices at POR & POFQ and limiting the discounts to CSR & CBR will they give up any idea of DVC at the moderates?

 

[NeXuS1000]

Disney's P&R investments in 2013 were at 15% while Uni's were at 26%.

Before Bob Iger took charge, Disney's P&R investments used to run over 25% every year, often above 30%.

Uni's Theme Parks margins are up exactly because they are investing in their product.

Disney's P&R's margins are down exactly because they are underinvesting in theirs.

Fair enough. Are the 15% vs 26% in relation to division revenue or operating income?

It's definitely sad to hear that they have reduced their annual investments from 25-30% to 15%, and that's definitely not something I see as a sound business decision, since people in that business should know that you need a good portion of continuous re-investment to ensure the success of vacation and entertainment properties.

I don't think you can just conclude that their operating income margin is down because of this, though. As far as I understand, park attendance has more or less only gone up and resort occupancy hasn't diminished that much since Iger took over, right? If so, I fairly to see how reduced re-investment since Iger took over has resulted in less operating income margin.

 

[Stevek]

if you are a financial advisor and professor, i really hope you don't confuse your opinions and inferences for facts, at least for your clients' and students' sake.

and i love WDW as much as the next poster on this site, but "by far the best place in the world to visit." good god, man. you need to get out more. although you do have a future of disney PR if you want it, because you're hitting talking points like mike trout crushes hanging sliders.

It's the "by far the best place in the world to visit" type of quote that makes me think this is a Disney employee posting. I enjoy WDW as well but I'd rather visit Disneyland...which isn't even in my top 10 of places in the world to visit. This is a classic symptom of someone that has ingested far too much pixie dust.