The Spirited 8th Wonder (WDW's Future & You!)

[WDW1974]

I agree that there are quite a few nutters out there...maybe even a few here (not pointing fingers, don't get in a huff people ; )

I really think it's a mix of what you say above, some people make poor financial choices, some have mental issues, some have a fixation with the BRAND, some that qualify for all 3. And some people are mentally stable but just plain incompetent. I personally can't imagine choosing WDW over my mortgage or anything else of financial importance but people do it all the time with other "additictions" like alcohol & gambling. There's moderation in all things in life and there's the extreme's. I could visit DL a couple times a month but in no way could I go every day like some nutters do.

That is absolutely true.

The thing is many folks don't see or believe that addiction to Disney (or UNI) is real and can be just as harmful and destructive to a person as substance abuse, gambling, ography, eating etc.

The term addiction isn't by definition something good ... even if say you're addicted to pie!

 

[Stevek]

... even if say you're addicted to pie!

Guilty as charged!

 

[xstech25]

I'm not trolling, i'm trying to point out a serious observation I have. You constantly talk about the people who run Disney like they're some kind of morons that can't manage their way out of a cardboard box. This is a real business and these people have to deal with real problems. If you're so good at running a multi-billion dollar operation with over 60,000 employees then why aren't you doing it? Everyone is entitled to their opinions, but your personal attacks on people are generally uncalled for, you're constantly bashing the properties executives as being unintelligent even though many of them started as front-line employees and worked their way through college/grad schools and know the parks and their business better than you ever will. It's really just pathetic.

The saddest thing is the most important thing is the thing you chose to ignore, which is the fact that while yes they make some mistakes along the way, in general Disney's upper management has been doing a phenomenal job. I'm sorry sir, but you just can't argue with the market.

 

[asianway]

Absolutely true.

It's Fanboi-ism at its worst. And you don't have to be a 26-year-old unemployed male. You can be a 71-year-old retired professional grandmother of seven.

It's how many points do you own? Or how many cruises have you done? Or how many resorts have you stayed at? Or how many Disney restaurants have you dined at? etc.

It's really the same thing as being at every special event at WDW or being there the first day of anything (same with UNI fans camping out for DA last month).

It's a mentality that at one time you'd only see at Disneyana conventions ... but now from D23 to Club 33 to $43 a la carte Le Cellier beef, it's all over.

And, honestly, it gives all of us fans a bad name.

At least the Disneyana Conventions had a four figure buy in(I guarantee you it would be five today). That tended to keep a lot of riff raff out

 

[asianway]

I'm not trolling, i'm trying to point out a serious observation I have. You constantly talk about the people who run Disney like they're some kind of morons that can't manage their way out of a cardboard box. This is a real business and these people have to deal with real problems. If you're so good at running a multi-billion dollar operation with over 60,000 employees then why aren't you doing it? Everyone is entitled to their opinions, but your personal attacks on people are generally uncalled for, you're constantly bashing the properties executives as being unintelligent even though many of them started as front-line employees and worked their way through college/grad schools and know the parks and their business better than you ever will. It's really just pathetic.

The saddest thing is the most important thing is the thing you chose to ignore, which is the fact that while yes they make some mistakes along the way, in general Disney's upper management has been doing a phenomenal job. I'm sorry sir, but you just can't argue with the market.

I look at that chart and all I see are red flags

 

[Nemo14]

I'm not trolling, i'm trying to point out a serious observation I have. You constantly talk about the people who run Disney like they're some kind of morons that can't manage their way out of a cardboard box. This is a real business and these people have to deal with real problems. If you're so good at running a multi-billion dollar operation with over 60,000 employees then why aren't you doing it? Everyone is entitled to their opinions, but your personal attacks on people are generally uncalled for, you're constantly bashing the properties executives as being unintelligent even though many of them started as front-line employees and worked their way through college/grad schools and know the parks and their business better than you ever will. It's really just pathetic.

The saddest thing is the most important thing is the thing you chose to ignore, which is the fact that while yes they make some mistakes along the way, in general Disney's upper management has been doing a phenomenal job. I'm sorry sir, but you just can't argue with the market.

It's what they are doing a phenomenal job at that is so worrisome.

 

[WDW1974]

You constantly talk about the people who run Disney like they're some kind of morons that can't manage their way out of a cardboard box. This is a real business and these people have to deal with real problems. If you're so good at running a multi-billion dollar operation with over 60,000 employees then why aren't you doing it?

Right, the old why don't you do it better. Pal, I could, but I'm not ever going to be given the chance. Hell, Disney is so stupid, so arrogant that they'll allow me to sit here and put news and information out that damages them rather than stick a consulting contract under my nose to shut me up and take advantage of my knowledge. And, again, unlike yourself I do know the caliber of many of the folks who make vast sums of money telling Disney how to further break its product. I could help fix it and make them a blankload of money.

So, yeah, I do think they're morons. And, yeah, I do think I (and many others) could do a far better job of running that multi-billion operation. You have no idea the history, the experience and the knowledge of myself and many others here. All you know is George Kalogridis is running WDW therefore he must be smarter and more exceptional than any/every one else. That's deluded thinking.

Everyone is entitled to their opinions, but your personal attacks on people are generally uncalled for, you're constantly bashing the properties executives as being unintelligent even though many of them started as front-line employees and worked their way through college/grad schools and know the parks and their business better than you ever will. It's really just pathetic.

Personal attacks? When you deal with screaming Disney execs on conference calls or execs making unwanted advances on you or execs taking out their personal animus toward you on family and friends, then you will be in a position to talk. Until then, you're simply urinating in the wind.

Oh, and I know the PR tale of how certain execs got where they are. And I know the reality as well ... some of which wouldn't last out here for 60 seconds if I placed it out. You have no clue, little fanboi.

The saddest thing is the most important thing is the thing you chose to ignore, which is the fact that while yes they make some mistakes along the way, in general Disney's upper management has been doing a phenomenal job. I'm sorry sir, but you just can't argue with the market.

Actually as someone who was awake in 2007-08, I absolutely can argue with the market.

 

[ParentsOf4]

The saddest thing is the most important thing is the thing you chose to ignore, which is the fact that while yes they make some mistakes along the way, in general Disney's upper management has been doing a phenomenal job. I'm sorry sir, but you just can't argue with the market.

Yes, I can argue with the markets.

There's a reason markets crash.

All the time.

Wall Street is not omnipotent. Most of the time, it's a bunch of (mostly) guys trying to score a quick buck so they can buy that Maserati they've been drooling over. They pile on to any investment that's moving up, even if it's selling souls to the devil.

Bringing this back to The Walt Disney Company (TWDC), Disney leadership has performed admirably in every area with the exception of Parks & Resorts (P&R).

P&R should be money in the bank. It was for nearly 50 years.

Yet 7 of P&R's 10 worst years as measured by P&R's gross margins have been under Bob Iger.

Iger has been CEO for only 8 full fiscal years.

Iger & co. have made mistake after mistake when it comes to P&R, and the numbers show it.

 

[xstech25]

Disney is so stupid, so arrogant that they'll allow me to sit here and put news and information out that damages them rather than stick a consulting contract under my nose to shut me up and take advantage of my knowledge. And, again, unlike yourself I do know the caliber of many of the folks who make vast sums of money telling Disney how to further break its product. I could help fix it and make them a blankload of money.

Oh, and I know the PR tale of how certain execs got where they are. And I know the reality as well ... some of which wouldn't last out here for 60 seconds if I placed it out. You have no clue, little fanboi.

Maybe they can't last 60 seconds with you or your friends, but they seem to be doing just fine where it counts lol

What's funny about your post is that it doesn't matter whether you know a lot about Disney or not. As Brian Tracy says, in the business world the most important of the 12 intelligences is interpersonal intelligence, and its apparent to me this might be the one you struggle the most with.

 

[xstech25]

Yes, I can argue with the markets.

There's a reason markets crash.

Markets usually crash because capitol is misallocated and a correction has to take place. As a college professor and financial adviser I am well aware of this. This is one of the many reasons I love Disney - while many companies have hot shot execs that only care about their personal well being and short term profits, Disney has been making moves that set them up for long term success and their management team is clearly in it for the long haul (even after Bob retires, he has a significant stake in the companies long term success). Marvel, Lucasfilm, huge theme park in Shanghai....they now have an enormous arsenal of what you could say is long term "money-making stuff." Also the stuff they are building now is much better quality than a decade or so ago than before Bob took over, look at Shanghai Disneyland compared to HK, which is going to be much more spectacular.

 

[cw1982]

What's funny about your post is that it doesn't matter whether you know a lot about Disney or not. As Brian Tracy says, in the business world the most important of the 12 intelligences is interpersonal intelligence, and its apparent to me this might be the one you struggle the most with.

Says the person who came into this thread with a clear agenda to attack the OP. Sounds to me like he's not the one lacking interpersonal skills. If you don't like his posts, why are you reading them?

 

[lobelia]

Wait. Don't start without me. I have to go get the popcorn ready.

 

[GoofGoof]

I don't think that everyone who buys DVC is crazy by a longshot. Some very savvy posters on this very thread own DVC, and I wouldn't think any of us would question their mental health. That being said, I have seen many examples of people who put their financial lives in jeopardy to afford Disney vacations and DVC. I haven't seen many posters like that on this board, but on others, I met people who maxed out credit cards, delayed paying their mortgage or other essential bills, etc, to have their Disney fix. On one memorable thread, one group had a challenge going to feed their families (sometimes large families!) on $10 a day/$70 a week in order to afford that Disney vacation (Let's live like paupers for 51 weeks out of the year so we can splurge on a deluxe hotel and food at WDW for week! Yeah, no thanks!). But hey, at least they were actually paying for their trips. We won't even talk about the few who did blow-out trips on credit and bought tons of Disney dollars beforehand to spend and then filed bankruptcy (but kept their DVC!).

Of course, this type of obsession us not limited to Disney or WDW, but it is scary to see it played out.

I don't think I'm crazy because I own DVC points, but I'm a little less sane after reading through the last few pages. I wish we could just have a discussion without all the personal attacks.

I agree with your point. I'm all for doing what makes you happy, but there needs to be some balance and some thought to your future. Especially for people with kids and mortgages and real world responsibility. Financing a vacation is never a good financial move whether it's charging a hotel room on a credit card you know you won't pay off that month or financing a DVC purchase. Both have insane interest rates and you are buying a luxury item that's a want, not a need.

Timeshares in general are notorious for hard sales techniques and preying on people who can be easily influenced. I don't consider it mental illness, just impulse buying or poor decision making in a lot of cases. There is definitely a portion of DVC owners who did not fully consider their purchase before they signed on. There is another group who ran the numbers obsessively and got a lot of unbiased information before buying in. I can honestly say I've never spoken to a DVC sales rep and I've never been on a tour or seen their sales pitch. I hear it's not as much of a hard press as some timeshare companies. I bought my points resale and the only consideration for me was buying in or renting the points indefinitely. I like staying in the villas. A studio hotel room doesn't work for my family (sounds elitist, but you haven't met my kids). Even with a deep discount to rack (which I wasn't always getting) buying in still worked better for me. I realize that I am not the average DVC owner so I don't take offense to what people say about DVC owners and their finances.

 

[WDW1974]

Maybe they can't last 60 seconds with you or your friends, but they seem to be doing just fine where it counts lol

What's funny about your post is that it doesn't matter whether you know a lot about Disney or not. As Brian Tracy says, in the business world the most important of the 12 intelligences is interpersonal intelligence, and its apparent to me this might be the one you struggle the most with.

That's hilarious considering how bad most Disney P&R execs are in that very area.

So, what's your agenda here? Whose bidding are you doing? An exec? A Lifestyler/Blogger?

Are you Georgie's new fanboitoy?

 

[GoofGoof]

i also want to add this: this prevailing sense of false elitism in DVC is very, very real. many members get off on telling you how many points they have, where they own, etc. the most common questions i heard my parents asked at the pool or in the hot tub when they struck up casual conversations with fellow members were: "how many points do you have?" or "where do you own?"

one of my favorite things would be when my mother would screw with people and tell them we owed some fabricated outlandish number points just to see them squirm.

I've never experienced this personally, but it would make me a little uncomfortable. I don't mind sharing info with people in a place like the DVC forum if someone is asking questions, but I don't walk around talking to strangers about it. I didn't even tell anyone in my family that we bought into DVC for a few years. It finally came up in a casual conversation about where we usually stay when we go to WDW.

 

[WDW1974]

Markets usually crash because capitol is misallocated and a correction has to take place. As a college professor and financial adviser I am well aware of this. This is one of the many reasons I love Disney - while many companies have hot shot execs that only care about their personal well being and short term profits, Disney has been making moves that set them up for long term success and their management team is clearly in it for the long haul (even after Bob retires, he has a significant stake in the companies long term success). Marvel, Lucasfilm, huge theme park in Shanghai....they now have an enormous arsenal of what you could say is long term "money-making stuff." Also the stuff they are building now is much better quality than a decade or so ago than before Bob took over, look at Shanghai Disneyland compared to HK, which is going to be much more spectacular.

A college prof and financial advisor? Funny, I pictured you as MK custodial and IHOP short order cook myself.

Yes, Disney cares so much about the future that they've spent $12 billion or so on buying back stock.

I'm going to keep this short because I am reasonably sure that many of these posts will disappear while M. is enjoying breakfast in that perfect kitchen of hers.

But really ... Marvel isn't going to be a printing press of $$$ forever. Only so much of a market for Thor 13: This Hammer Sure is Heavy. And Disney has yet to do a damn thing with Lucas beyond making a movie that will make a blankload of cash. They don't even trust it, though, enough to start theme park projects based on it (kinda like Frozen). That speaks so well of the leadership.

And SDL? I'll let you know what I think after Opening Day since I'll be there. ...

And the stuff now is better quality than in 2004? Really? DCA opened ToT that year. WDW was fresh off Mission Space with Soarin under construction. ... What exactly have they opened that is so impressive of late? I think I missed it while trying to score every color MAGIC Band.

 

[crispy]

I don't think I'm crazy because I own DVC points, but I'm a little less sane after reading through the last few pages. I wish we could just have a discussion without all the personal attacks.

I agree with your point. I'm all for doing what makes you happy, but there needs to be some balance and some thought to your future. Especially for people with kids and mortgages and real world responsibility. Financing a vacation is never a good financial move whether it's charging a hotel room on a credit card you know you won't pay off that month or financing a DVC purchase. Both have insane interest rates and you are buying a luxury item that's a want, not a need.

Timeshares in general are notorious for hard sales techniques and preying on people who can be easily influenced. I don't consider it mental illness, just impulse buying or poor decision making in a lot of cases. There is definitely a portion of DVC owners who did not fully consider their purchase before they signed on. There is another group who ran the numbers obsessively and got a lot of unbiased information before buying in. I can honestly say I've never spoken to a DVC sales rep and I've never been on a tour or seen their sales pitch. I hear it's not as much of a hard press as some timeshare companies. I bought my points resale and the only consideration for me was buying in or renting the points indefinitely. I like staying in the villas. A studio hotel room doesn't work for my family (sounds elitist, but you haven't met my kids). Even with a deep discount to rack (which I wasn't always getting) buying in still worked better for me. I realize that I am not the average DVC owner so I don't take offense to what people say about DVC owners and their finances.

I have actually done the "over-the-phone" DVC tour twice, but that was because they were giving out $40 gift cards. I may have mentioned before that I am cheap. They didn't really give me a hard sell, but I was also upfront that we weren't good candidates for them because we like to vacation on the cheap.

 

[xstech25]

No, I just think the company is doing really well and I feel like you're more like TMZ and i'm more like CNBC. Yes sure there is drama in the company, there is drama at executive levels (and other levels) of all companies. I'm sure you've read biographies of Walt & Roy - their lives were filled with drama, they went months without even talking to each other.

The fact remains the company is doing extremely well, the attractions they are building now are good quality, and they are actively working on major overhauls for 3 of the parks at WDW (there are project teams for Star Wars, Epcot, and DAK is in the middle of constructing its big expansion). I'm not saying the place is perfect, there are many things that me off about it (such as the small portions of food that you pay $10 for at many restaurants, Space Mountain being old and rough, and everything about the TTC), but to me WDW is still by far the best place in the world to visit and they have been heading in the right direction the past few years from a strategy point of view.

Sure HP was a huge success but I also think adding a lot of much needed capacity to Fantasyland, MM+, Rivers of Light/Night Safari/Avatar expansion, Disney Springs, etc are all good things and are in no way cheap. Then after this "round" there is clearly a lot more on the table that is going to be coming as the Star Wars movies are released and we start to find out what these WDI people on the "Epcot Project" have been up to.

 

[rioriz]

No, I just think the company is doing really well and I feel like you're more like TMZ and i'm more like CNBC. Yes sure there is drama in the company, there is drama at executive levels (and other levels) of all companies. I'm sure you've read biographies of Walt & Roy - their lives were filled with drama, they went months without even talking to each other.

The fact remains the company is doing extremely well, the attractions they are building now are good quality, and they are actively working on major overhauls for 3 of the parks at WDW (there are project teams for Star Wars, Epcot, and DAK is in the middle of constructing its big expansion). I'm not saying the place is perfect, there are many things that me off about it (such as the small portions of food that you pay $10 for at many restaurants, Space Mountain being old and rough, and everything about the TTC), but to me WDW is still by far the best place in the world to visit and they have been heading in the right direction the past few years from a strategy point of view.

Sure HP was a huge success but I also think adding a lot of much needed capacity to Fantasyland, MM+, Rivers of Light/Night Safari/Avatar expansion, Disney Springs, etc are all good things and are in no way cheap. Then after this "round" there is clearly a lot more on the table that is going to be coming as the Star Wars movies are released and we start to find out what these WDI people on the "Epcot Project" have been up to.

I agree with you that Disney as a company is doing well.

The Parks Division in Orlando has been lagging for years!

 

[flynnibus]

Yes, but you've been around enough to know there's a snob factor at play. It's sorta like the 'which lonely Lifestyler has not gotten into Club 33 yet?' deal.

There's this constant looking to one-up others that is extremely prevalent in the fan community.

meh... there are some in every group. But I think you've been soiled by the obsessive ones you find online and living in Florida

When I step away from the computer... I know all kinds of people in my social circles, from neighbors, family, co-workers, and old acquaintances that are pretty loyal Disney customers. I see them posting on facebook that they are at WDW.. photos of their kids at the parks.. or talking about some internet meme. Not a single one of them I would classify as having an illness or unhealthy loyalty to Disney - yet they all actually spend way more time at Disney than I do They enjoy the products and participate... just like they may enjoy our local Japanese steakhouse as loyal customers. I can't say I know anyone 'IRL' that I would put in a group anywhere near the likes of the disney-twitter-club or many on the DIS. I even have some friends that are the globe trotter types and are big fans of HKDL, TLR, etc.. yet it's just one of many things they enjoy.

I've had the friendly conversations with people in line.. or hanging out in the pool.. on the boats and at the hotels, etc. And while topics like the ones have come up.. and we joke about who has done more, etc (when someone says they've done almost 30 cruises... do the math.. DCL ain't very old) but I've never had anyone act like they were superior, or some -measuring contest. I've talked to DVC owners who have 400+ points and their cruising on their points. They were happy with what they had... they were happy that they were cruising with their college age kids and everyone was just happy to be getting lit for the week I'm not going to lecture them on how many points are enough, or why cruising on their points was bad, etc. If someone wants an opinion, I'll share my thoughts and experiences.. but its not a competition and I'm not going medieval on someone over passing comments that could be wrong.

In real life... if you are a complete or idiot.. I'll more than likely just go away. No one pays me bounties for correcting the stupid.. and if you aren't genuinely interested in combining our knowledge to help you or I.. I'm not really interested in expending the energy. I fix enough stupid in my day job.. I retain the right to decide when/where I spend that kind of energy when dealing with hobby topics