The Spirited 8th Wonder (WDW's Future & You!)

[WDW1974]

So just to clear this up, are you saying that anyone who buys DVC has mental health and addiction issues in addition to being mentally feeble??? If not, can you please clarify what you meant by this?

Of course not. Where would you assume such a blanket statement from?

My girlfriend, who is as level-headed as they come, generally, owns DVC. She is many things (like beautiful and wonderful and fun and amazing and thoughtful and ... just being careful in case she ever reads this!!!) but mentally feeble would not be one of them.

And since I never made the statement that you are making above, I really don't see how it is possible for me to clarify what I meant by it.

But welcome to the thread!

 

[Nubs70]

To understand what’s going on at WDW, you have to look at WDW the way those running the organization do, like a value stream mapping excercise.

The goal is to eliminate waste. What does that mean? It means getting rid of anything that doesn’t add value; getting rid of anything that the customer is unwilling to pay for.

So, let’s look at the exterior light bulbs at the Grand Floridian.

For the sake of discussion, let’s assume it costs $0.50 per night per room to keep all the exterior bulbs replaced so that they always are lit. However, I’m in business to make money. If it’s going to cost me $0.50 then I’m going to charge the customer $1 for it.

Is the customer willing to pay an extra $1 per night to make sure all the bulbs are lit?

Maybe. Maybe not. It’s not something I can ask during check-in. “Madam (or Sir) would you like to pay an extra $1 per night so we keep all the exterior bulbs lit?”

At the Grand Floridian’s prices, the question is absurd.

Now let’s approach it from the other direction. The customer already is paying $1 per night to keep those bulbs lit. However, if I stop replacing those bulbs regularly, I can make an extra $0.50 per night per room.

If I stop maintaining them, will the customer notice?

Chances are, only a small percentage will notice. An even smaller percentage will complain. An even smaller percentage will demand to be compensated.

In the end, I’ve saved the company $158,000 per year ($0.50/room-night X 867 rooms X 365 nights/year) by not maintaining those light bulbs.

That’s the kind of thinking currently trendy in the business world.

That kind of thinking always has been trendy in the business world, which is why Walt Disney once said:

Everybody thinks that Disneyland is a goldmine but we have had our problems. You've got to work it and know how to handle it. Even trying to keep that park clean is a tremendous expense. And those sharp-pencil guys tell you, 'Walt, if we cut down on maintenance, we'd save a lot of money.' But I don't believe in that. It's like any other show on the road; it must be kept clean and fresh.​

“The Disney Difference” was about changing that way of thinking. It was about exceeding customer expectations, about taking care of all the little details.

Unfortunately, there’s no one high up the corporate Disney food chain that truly believes in “The Disney Difference” anymore.

This is so correct. LEAN has no place in the customer facing side of hospitality. Everything that makes your experience special is waste in respect to lean. From the necklaces handed out at POFQ to any concierge. Take the concierge, what added value do they provide the company? NOTHING. A concierge is a cost and must be eliminated. The extra bottle of shampoo from mousekeeping is a cost. A CM going out of their way to help or give extra effort, a cost.

 

[WDW1974]

If only they would, I'd rather not sit next to someone in swim trunks @ Jiko. Call me elitist, but it's hard to justify signature dining costs when a great portion of the clientele looks like they just walked in from the beach. And that's one of the few restaurants with food worthy of the cost.

I was last at Jiko in spring of 2013. The people were, for the most part, dressed quite appropriately for a dining locale of that caliber. ... If I had seen folks looking like they walked in from the beach, then I would have nicely demanded to speak to the area manager and the situation would have been dealt with.

That just isn't flat out acceptable. You want to dress like that? Go to The Mara or, better yet, there's a McD's right off of Black Lake Road (where my family had the first McRibs of their lives back in 1984!)

 

[asianway]

my family owns DVC, but we bought in 1993. that included free park passes until the end of the century (imagine that. i bet those who bought in after 2000 can't), a resort that was constantly refreshed and refurbed, and a per point cost that is on track with what's on re-sale.

i think people who buy anything that's not saratoga points or re-sale points are either absolutely A) insane, B) wealthy, C) brazen about their disregard for money, or D) both A & C.

i have a friend who lives in jersey. he bought BLT points (at $150 per point), aulani points (!!!!! WHY?!?!), and was about to close on GF points last time we spoke. he has a family of five and is not wealthy. i...don't even know what to attribute that to, but i think that's coo coo for cocoa puffs.

The true scam of DVC is that OKW is the only resort where 2 queen beds are guaranteed in the condo docs. Unless you want people on the sofa bed, you need to upgrade to a 2BR worth of points.

 

[seascape]

This is so correct. LEAN has no place in the customer facing side of hospitality. Everything that makes your experience special is waste in respect to lean. From the necklaces handed out at POFQ to any concierge. Take the concierge, what added value do they provide the company? NOTHING. A concierge is a cost and must be eliminated. The extra bottle of shampoo from mousekeeping is a cost. A CM going out of their way to help or give extra effort, a cost.

And that is why we have to go to guest services to make sure the CM is complemented. I also send WDW and the DVC an email after every visit complementing the cast members who made my vacation great and only once did I complain about one. If you had someone stand out and do something special you have to let Disney know.

 

[Nemo14]

My girlfriend, who is as level-headed as they come, generally, owns DVC. She is many things (like beautiful and wonderful and fun and amazing and thoughtful and ... just being careful in case she ever reads this!!!) but mentally feeble would not be one of them.

Well, there is that issue of her taste in male companions...

 

[WDW1974]

Alright, so the core argumentation begins with the cost-to-quality ratio difference between "on-site" resorts and those not operated by Disney? If the prices are really that out-of-whack (I haven't done that much direct comparison, but it didn't seem that much more expensive when we booked our August trip - we're staying at the Yacht Club, and for 5 people (sharing room though, tbh) for a week (7 nights), with 6 day passes (incl. park hopper and waterparks) as well as the Deluxe Dining Plan, we payed roughly $8.500, which is a lot, yes, but considering that it includes park tickets, dining etc., I never found it to be outrageous.)

$8,500 for a week in Orlando isn't outrageous?!?! I could travel the world in Faux Top One Percent style for MONTHS on that amount. BTW, since you are from Denmark (I hear it is lovely there. I've never been yet.) perhaps you don't realize that the average American makes about $26,000 a year. So, roughly, a third of an average American's annual salary is what you're blowing in a week at Dizzy World.

Just some perspective.

But I understand your point, and if Disney is using DVC to combat their own occupancy problems, created by artificially inflated prices, then I agree it's a stupid move. But have they ever had true occupancy problems? What's their lowest occupancy rate they ever hit? And again, doesn't DVC provide a better cushion for economic turmoil, that could otherwise significantly hit occupancy rates?

They are. But I am not saying it's a stupid move. By their own crazy business model, plus Wall Street's deamnd for ever more $$$, it is a great move. ... It's only stupid when you move out down the path to long term.

As to occupancy problems, @ParentsOf4 has written the equivalent of his PhD thesis on Disney's occupancy issues.

I'm not sure I know what their lowest occupancy level has been or how it was obtained. Disney has, in the past and present, shuttered everything from entire resorts to large portions of them, in effect lowering what total occupancy would be by taking these vast quantities of rooms out of the equation.

When economic turmoil hits, I'm not sure there ever is a better cushion since Disney isn't 'saving' the money it is making on DVC for a rainy day. DVC made a blankload of money say in 2004 ... do you know where that money is today?

Not saying I disagree, but I'm just curious about why you think that provides the better long-term result for Disney?

Because it worked perfectly for roughly 25-30 years at WDW. They broke what worked and are breaking it more now to fix a problem they created.

Let's not get all passive aggressive here

Right. Nobody in Denmark ever is!

I didn't read the entire thread (but a lot of posts though), but I still have the right to post and ask questions, and it's not like I specifically aimed them at you. I'm grateful for anyone who takes their time to answer, but people not reading 80-page long threads just to jump into discussions and ask questions is part of the internet

I tend to respond when people quote my posts if I feel it is needed.

And it sure seems like you've read far more than you say ...

I know that timeshare in general is, well, not a sound financial decision for the buyer. I definitely get that (which is also why I fail to see why it's bad for Disney's bottomline).

And regarding the elitism; I haven't experienced some of these "tales" first-hand, but when I'm going there in August, with a lot of signature dining restaurants booked, I definitely don't plan to come in wearing my finest suits. They do write that you can't have t-shirts with offensive languages, and swimwear, and tank-tops, etc., and that I will definitely respect, but I will still come in casual clothing, and I don't see the problem in that. It's a vacation resort.

But... what I do understand the criticism of is if people break those rules, e.g. show up in swimwear, and Disney does nothing about it. As in, going directly against prescribed rules. That sounds like a veeery weird policy to me, for sure.

WDW has always been a vacation resort. But some people seem to think vacation means anything goes. It doesn't or it shouldn't. You want to go to a nice restaurant at WDW? Other than V&A's, a suit of any kind isn't required. But you sure as (blank) shouldn't show up in cheap shorts, a Grumpy tee and flip-flops and think that's fine.

 

[WDW1974]

I really think this is a ridiculous thing to say. Just because someone buys something that you do not see the value in, does not make them mentally feeble or mean they lack common sense. There are a lot of things that people spend their money on that seem stupid or not worth it to me, but I don't automatically think there is something wrong with them because I don't agree with their choices.

I believe many Disney and UNI fans are flat out nutters. Many being a significant amount but, by no means, a majority or everyone. That's about as simple as I can make it. ... There's loads of true mental illness out there and it has nothing to do with timeshares beyond some of the folks who buy are crazy. S-O-M-E.

And it has very little to do with their poor financial choices and everything to do with their mental makeup and their fixation on a BRAND. There would be some exceptions such as the people that I'm told post on the DIS boards about missing mortgage payments and becoming delinquent with bills so they can feed their addiction at WDW ... but I don't find them to be the rule. They're just one example/one subset of the mentally ill in the fan community.

 

[Stevek]

i also want to add this: this prevailing sense of false elitism in DVC is very, very real. many members get off on telling you how many points they have, where they own, etc. the most common questions i heard my parents asked at the pool or in the hot tub when they struck up casual conversations with fellow members were: "how many points do you have?" or "where do you own?"

one of my favorite things would be when my mother would screw with people and tell them we owed some fabricated outlandish number points just to see them squirm.

Elitism and also people that put all of life's eggs in one basket...Disney. It's all about who's got the biggest, swingin.....uh, Mickey Ears.

It's really no different than the person on social media bragging about his 1000+ visits to Disneyland. He's a stud according to some fans but I think the average Joe on the street would say he's a bit touched.

 

[asianway]

I believe many Disney and UNI fans are flat out nutters. Many being a significant amount but, by no means, a majority or everyone. That's about as simple as I can make it. ... There's loads of true mental illness out there and it has nothing to do with timeshares beyond some of the folks who buy are crazy. S-O-M-E.

And it has very little to do with their poor financial choices and everything to do with their mental makeup and their fixation on a BRAND. There would be some exceptions such as the people that I'm told post on the DIS boards about missing mortgage payments and becoming delinquent with bills so they can feed their addiction at WDW ... but I don't find them to be the rule. They're just one example/one subset of the mentally ill in the fan community.

My new rule...and I encourage you to follow it as well...if you meet anyone IRL who says they are a Disney fan, assume they are bat stick crazy until they prove otherwise.

I find it works easier that way.

 

[WDW1974]

All I can say is wait until 8/5/14 and we will see Disney's quarterly statement. How Disney is doing is graded everyday on wall street and reports have to be issued quarterly. Disney parks will be judged in 2016 on if the Shanghai investment was good or not. Just like universal will be judged on how DA is doing when the September financial results come out. Summer is the busiest 3 months of the year so we will not have to wait long to see the DA results. I have my money on Disney and their executives. If you don't like what Disney is doing don't go and don't give them your money. It's your money and you should only support businesses you like. Many of us love Disney and what they are doing. We see the investments Disney is making and their returns.

I haven't reported you yet, even though I firmly believe you're an old 'friend' here, but if you keep sticking nonsensical posts like this in this thread, I will.

Your post is so off-topic, off-balance and off the mark.

Disney's quarterly report is simply a window into how things were during April-June of 2013, no more, no less.
Disney parks in 2016 will not be judged on Shanghai DL, which will be open no more than three months of 2015. Utter nonsense.
UNI will also not be judged on a quarter when DA wasn't even open for a large chunk.
Summer is not the busiest three months of the year and hasn't been for a long time. It's not even (for Disney anymore) the three busiest consecutive months, those would be Oct-Dec. now with Feb.-April getting stronger as well.

Can the bold pronouncements.

 

[WDW1974]

I don't think that everyone who buys DVC is crazy by a longshot. Some very savvy posters on this very thread own DVC, and I wouldn't think any of us would question their mental health. That being said, I have seen many examples of people who put their financial lives in jeopardy to afford Disney vacations and DVC. I haven't seen many posters like that on this board, but on others, I met people who maxed out credit cards, delayed paying their mortgage or other essential bills, etc, to have their Disney fix. On one memorable thread, one group had a challenge going to feed their families (sometimes large families!) on $10 a day/$70 a week in order to afford that Disney vacation (Let's live like paupers for 51 weeks out of the year so we can splurge on a deluxe hotel and food at WDW for week! Yeah, no thanks!). But hey, at least they were actually paying for their trips. We won't even talk about the few who did blow-out trips on credit and bought tons of Disney dollars beforehand to spend and then filed bankruptcy (but kept their DVC!).

Of course, this type of obsession us not limited to Disney or WDW, but it is scary to see it played out.

Thanks.

That is exactly what I was referring to. Sorry I didn't see this post first!

 

[Stevek]

I believe many Disney and UNI fans are flat out nutters. Many being a significant amount but, by no means, a majority or everyone. That's about as simple as I can make it. ... There's loads of true mental illness out there and it has nothing to do with timeshares beyond some of the folks who buy are crazy. S-O-M-E.

And it has very little to do with their poor financial choices and everything to do with their mental makeup and their fixation on a BRAND. There would be some exceptions such as the people that I'm told post on the DIS boards about missing mortgage payments and becoming delinquent with bills so they can feed their addiction at WDW ... but I don't find them to be the rule. They're just one example/one subset of the mentally ill in the fan community.

I agree that there are quite a few nutters out there...maybe even a few here (not pointing fingers, don't get in a huff people ; )

I really think it's a mix of what you say above, some people make poor financial choices, some have mental issues, some have a fixation with the BRAND, some that qualify for all 3. And some people are mentally stable but just plain incompetent. I personally can't imagine choosing WDW over my mortgage or anything else of financial importance but people do it all the time with other "additictions" like alcohol & gambling. There's moderation in all things in life and there's the extreme's. I could visit DL a couple times a month but in no way could I go every day like some nutters do.

 

[WDW1974]

Don't be too sure about Wall Street's grading system.

Look at how they 'graded' Enron:

View attachment 60350

There are dozens of other companies that followed similar paths.

TWDC is no Enron.

However, Walt Street's grading system is fundamentally flawed.

Not only that, but Americans have been brainwashed by Big Business and politicos to think that what is good for Wall Street is good for Main Street. It isn't. Almost universally so.

If that were the case, then when the Dow hit 17,000 recently unemployment would have been down under say three percent, we would be making most of what we use and consume, we would be innovating and leading the world in so many areas and no one would be complaining about paying taxes or that Starbucks raised prices on coffee. Oh, and no WDW full-time CM would be pulling in under $26,000 a year.

Corporations do not care about the greater good. Greed is all they care about.

 

[WDW1974]

i also want to add this: this prevailing sense of false elitism in DVC is very, very real. many members get off on telling you how many points they have, where they own, etc. the most common questions i heard my parents asked at the pool or in the hot tub when they struck up casual conversations with fellow members were: "how many points do you have?" or "where do you own?"

one of my favorite things would be when my mother would screw with people and tell them we owed some fabricated outlandish number points just to see them squirm.

Absolutely true.

It's Fanboi-ism at its worst. And you don't have to be a 26-year-old unemployed male. You can be a 71-year-old retired professional grandmother of seven.

It's how many points do you own? Or how many cruises have you done? Or how many resorts have you stayed at? Or how many Disney restaurants have you dined at? etc.

It's really the same thing as being at every special event at WDW or being there the first day of anything (same with UNI fans camping out for DA last month).

It's a mentality that at one time you'd only see at Disneyana conventions ... but now from D23 to Club 33 to $43 a la carte Le Cellier beef, it's all over.

And, honestly, it gives all of us fans a bad name.

 

[WDW1974]

and maybe because... It's a topic people share in common? An easy conversation topic that you know the other party has knowledge/interest in?

Of course it's going to be a popular topic. Just like when you are a on a cruise ship people ask "is this your first cruise?" or "what other cruises have you tried?"

It's common ground.

Yes, but you've been around enough to know there's a snob factor at play. It's sorta like the 'which lonely Lifestyler has not gotten into Club 33 yet?' deal.

There's this constant looking to one-up others that is extremely prevalent in the fan community.

 

[WDW1974]

Well, there is that issue of her taste in male companions...

Yes, I keep telling her she can do better. ... I think she just likes dating a celebrity.

 

[Nemo14]

Yes, I keep telling her she can do better. ... I think she just likes dating a celebrity.

 

[ScoutN]

Yes, but you've been around enough to know there's a snob factor at play. It's sorta like the 'which lonely Lifestyler has gotten into Club 33 yet?' deal.

There's this constant looking to one-up others that is extremely prevalent in the fan community.

That's something I can't stand about the DIS Boards ... the whole listing of trips at the bottom of everyone's posts like trophies on a wall or merit badges in Boy Scouts. It's just a way of saying 'Look at me. Look at how many trips I've taken since '93.'

Oh good lord the sailaway DVC get together, aka try to push points on current members while offering unlimited free booze, has the worst of the worst snobitudes with that. Some start getting nasty with each other over who has had the most MAGICal WDW trips since becoming DVC Members (oh yes I am 100% serious). The girlfriend looked at me and said "ding ding jerry at sea" while I took another bahama mama to the head.

 

[WDW1974]

Medium family income in the U.S.bis just over $40,000 and hasn't grown. I have no idea where the $26,000 figure above came from but it's wrong. Per capita income is even higher that that but that's because we are turning into Europe and an economy of haves and have nots. Too bad. I think we had a better country back in the 50's. Back then we were growing the middle class. Since the 60's income disparity has grown and grown every year especially recently.

Again, you are talking FAMILY income. I was talking individual.

But if you think a family can do more than survive in most of the USA on $40K a year, then you are not living in reality.

But you are taking the thread off-topic ... or any topic really.