The Spirited 11th Hour ...

[Sped2424]

But WHY DO WE HAVE TO BRAND THEM?

Isn't it our job as adults to teach children to "be themselves" ?? Why do we have to brand Elsa as LGBT?

Children are sexualized enough already. Don't add more tags to them. Just stop.

But no one is branding Elsa anything. I think you are missing the point here. Also again you are making the same ill advised mistake that anything lgbt equals a sort of sexulization that we have to protect children from. Which is unfair and bias considering sexualization as I have show above has well existed in the canon for years dedicated to children. Yet because it's straight it's normal and allowable. You have to understand how that comes across right?

If what you really were after was no brands or sexulaizing by that theory there should be no romance at all in these films.

 

[brb1006]

It sounds like they may have trouble keeping Shanghai DL clean

http://shanghaiist.com/2016/05/03/shanghai_disneyland_trashed_before_opening.php

And I thought Disneyland Paris had it bad before it opened.

 

[brb1006]

Who could have predicted that?

This is going to be a rough first year for the park when it finally opens.

 

[Sped2424]

And I thought Disneyland Paris had it bad before it opened.

aren't chinese tourists notorious for this kind of thing though. And at this point one has to wonder where are the cast members and why aren't they stepping in.

 

[Soarin' Over Pgh]

But no one is branding Elsa anything. I think you are missing the point here. Also again you are making the same ill advised mistake that anything lgbt equals a sort of sexulization that we have to protect children from. Which is unfair and bias considering sexualization as I have show above has well existed in the canon for years dedicated to children. Yet because it's straight it's normal and allowable. You have to understand how that comes across right?

If what you really were after was no brands or sexulaizing by that theory there should be no romance at all in these films.

Just because it's "straight" doesn't mean it's normal. There is no normal anymore. When people sue the Canadian govt' over there not being more than two choices for identification (male/female) ..... Normal has up and flew the coop.

What about those of us who don't like any romance in their animated movies? Why can't we just have a movie without it?

At some point we're gonna have to agree to disagree on this. Or, see the thread get locked.

 

[Andrew_Ryan]

But WHY DO WE HAVE TO BRAND THEM?

Isn't it our job as adults to teach children to "be themselves" ?? Why do we have to brand Elsa as LGBT?

Children are sexualized enough already. Don't add more tags to them. Just stop.

The reason adults and children will attribute various identities to these open-slate characters is because of the severe lack of representation in animated films. There are currently no openly gay characters in a Disney film, and representation is important. The same can be said of race. Children need to be able to identify with the characters they see on the screen.

 

[GiveMeTheMusic]

Most Americans have no earthly idea how completely intolerant and in our view, archaic, much of the world is in comparison. The progress made in gay rights, racial divides and gender issues are simply not present in the majority of the world. Foreign grosses would be hugely impacted by such a decision, and foreign grosses are where a lot of money is made these days.

As a result, making Elsa an out lesbian in Frozen 2 is unlikely from a business perspective. To be frank, even America is not ready for the top-selling Disney princess to be queer. I'm afraid we'd be years, if not decades away from that being a societally accepted move for Disney to make.

 

[Soarin' Over Pgh]

The reason adults and children will attribute various identities to these open-slate characters is because of the severe lack of representation in animated films. There are currently no openly gay characters in a Disney film, and representation is important. The same can be said of race. Children need to be able to identify with the characters they see on the screen.

Then we better get some handicapped princesses up in those movies, too. You know, there's no openly handicapped characters and they should be represented too. Don't forget bed bound children and those who have lost a limb! Anyone rallying for them? I'm just saying, if we are going to go for all races, all lifestyles (have we touched religions yet?) then the aim should be higher. Total inclusion.

Good luck getting certain religious groups in the USA to see an openly gay Disney character in a movie without riot, rallies and boycotts... And that's about all I'm going to touch on that subject. Not to mention the foreign markets- think China or Korea will be OK with Gay Elsa?

 

[RandySavage]

aren't chinese tourists notorious for this kind of thing though. And at this point one has to wonder where are the cast members and why aren't they stepping in.

They are notorious and pretty much everyone familiar with China predicted this kind of behavior... and design ought to take that into account. Which is why I was always puzzled at the inclusion of Alice's Maze. I like it being there from a creative, aesthetic perspective, but it's like giving the locals a large, open air bathroom right under the castle.

 

[zakattack99]

Most Americans have no earthly idea how completely intolerant and in our view, archaic, much of the world is in comparison. The progress made in gay rights, racial divides and gender issues are simply not present in the majority of the world. Foreign grosses would be hugely impacted by such a decision, and foreign grosses are where a lot of money is made these days.

As a result, making Elsa an out lesbian in Frozen 2 is unlikely from a business perspective. To be frank, even America is not ready for the top-selling Disney princess to be queer. I'm afraid we'd be years, if not decades away from that being a societally accepted move for Disney to make.

THIS!!! We can argue forever if Elsa likes girls or not in the end it dose not matter because disney made what like A BILLION DOLLARS on Frozen and that is before BILLIONS AND BILLIONS OF DOLLARS of merchandise was sold. Disney is making Frozen 2 they are counting on MORE OF THE SAME. Elsa being a lesbian throws all of that into limbo you will have boycotts and rallies and all sorts of negative press. Yes you will also have people championing it as a milestone but that is not the point.Disney wants the money not the headache. They have a hugely profitable franchise they are not going to risk the long or short term dollars on a equal rights venture that could mess their bottom line up. Disney is Social Progressive we see it in allmost all of their properties ESPN (Kaitlyn Jenner woman of the year) ABC (modern family) etcetera eventually we will have a same sex couple in a cartoon movie, but it won't be Frozen and it won't be Elsa. The money involved is to high to risk.

Edited for spelling/grammer

 

[Sped2424]

Just because it's "straight" doesn't mean it's normal. There is no normal anymore. When people sue the Canadian govt' over there not being more than two choices for identification (male/female) ..... Normal has up and flew the coop.

What about those of us who don't like any romance in their animated movies? Why can't we just have a movie without it?

At some point we're gonna have to agree to disagree on this. Or, see the thread get locked.

I don't think we need to reach that point to understand you are not coming from a place of logic. What does the gender identity have to do with lgbt romances? How are these two intertwined? And if you want a Disney film with no romance You have it Brave, Elsa in Frozen, Moana, Nemo, Monsters Inc, Zootopia etc etc. At some point you are just going to have to plain say the idea of lgbt people in any media makes you uncomfortable.

 

[Soarin' Over Pgh]

I don't think we need to reach that point to understand you are not coming from a place of logic because again you want your film with no romance? You have it Brave, Elsa in Frozen, Moana, etc. At some point you are just going to have to plain say the idea of lgbt people in any media makes you uncomfortable.

LOL You've got me completely wrong. The idea of lgbt doesn't make me uncomfortable- you can ask my exgirlfriends for verification

However, I'm sure it will make the ...more religiously inclined ... quite uncomfortable for it to be front and center in a Disney animation.

 

[Sped2424]

Most Americans have no earthly idea how completely intolerant and in our view, archaic, much of the world is in comparison. The progress made in gay rights, racial divides and gender issues are simply not present in the majority of the world. Foreign grosses would be hugely impacted by such a decision, and foreign grosses are where a lot of money is made these days.

As a result, making Elsa an out lesbian in Frozen 2 is unlikely from a business perspective. To be frank, even America is not ready for the top-selling Disney princess to be queer. I'm afraid we'd be years, if not decades away from that being a societally accepted move for Disney to make.

These are all very valid reasons which I happen to agree with, no one was arguing against that. The issue I have is when we try and act like putting lgbt romances or characters into a film suddenly you have a sexuality issue that isn't suitable for children. When for decades we have had sexuality dictated to them by these very same films.

 

[Sped2424]

LOL You've got me completely wrong. The idea of lgbt doesn't make me uncomfortable- you can ask my exgirlfriends for verification

However, I'm sure it will make the ...more religiously inclined ... quite uncomfortable for it to be front and center in a Disney animation.

Then why would it matter to you I would think as someone who is in the lgbt spectrum you would understand the argument here? Or at the very least the issue with acting as if there is some kind of issue with sexuality when it applies to lgbt folk?

 

[PhotoDave219]

It isn't splitting a hair. I disagree with the concept of making Princesses/Princes LGBT because they have been fantasized that way by the fan community. Same goes for Star Wars and other fictional characters.

However, sexual identity has been a component of nearly ever Disney animated movie, so this movement has a point. Especially if folks ignore straight romanticized love in Disney movies and say that queer romanticized love is sexualization. Unfortunately by saying what you have said in your previous posts, you pretty much proved the point that this movement was trying to make.

I'm just ed that this is even a conversation. Many reasons and none of them have anything to do with LGBT issues.

But yes, Disney at some point should address this.... Probably on the Disney Channel on one of their teen shows would be a great place to start. And yes, some day Disney should have a princess who likes other princesses. Maybe one who's Scottish and plays with a bow and arrow? (Wait that didn't do fantastic at the box office and wasn't a smash hit).

This feels like the fanfic crowd using social media to sexualize their personal desires and get attention for it.

 

[yeti]

Sooo....there's a juicy new MiceAge update we can talk about..

 

[brb1006]

They are notorious and pretty much everyone familiar with China predicted this kind of behavior... and design ought to take that into account. Which is why I was always puzzled at the inclusion of Alice's Maze. I like it being there from a creative, aesthetic perspective, but it's like giving the locals a large, open air bathroom right under the castle.

Now I'm actually starting to get worried about the first few days of Shanghai when it's finally opened to the public.

 

[Soarin' Over Pgh]

Then why would it matter to you I would think as someone who is in the lgbt spectrum you would understand the argument here? Or at the very least the issue with acting as if there is some kind of issue with sexuality when it applies to lgbt folk?

Because I think that by Disney having a LGBT princess they will tick off the resounding number of folks who aren't OK with the issues at all. Look at the bigger picture. Disney has ticked off the religious sect several times and has come under heat for issues much smaller than this. Do you think they are willing to take the chance of people screaming "boycott" and heaven forbid- stop going to their films, their parks, staying on their property--- handing their money to Disney?

Sounds like she's one of those LGBT who are oblivious to the realities. If it doesn't affect them, its a non issue. Gays like that are truly pathetic The homophobia in this thread is pathetic too The point has been made, romance in Disney films is only accepted if its a man and woman. Man and man or woman and woman, alert the effing elders. Thank all deities, this bigotry seems to be on the decline. It just can't come fast enough. And for the record, anyone who thinks we've achieved equality in America is a delusional idiot. Sorry for the bluntness, it just ticks me off

Nah, not oblivious, I just think differently than you guys do. I'm looking at it from a much different perspective and that apparently makes me pathetic. I really thought higher of you until this comment.

Your second to last sentence is very, very true. America is quite far from equality.

But other countries who have Disney parks and movies are even further from it.

 

[Soarin' Over Pgh]

Now I'm actually starting to get worried about the first few days of Shanghai when it's finally opened to the public.

I think HK also had a similar problem- maybe someone who was there during the first few weeks/months can add some POV.

 

[Goofyernmost]

It isn't splitting a hair. I disagree with the concept of making Princesses/Princes LGBT because they have been fantasized that way by the fan community. Same goes for Star Wars and other fictional characters.

However, sexual identity has been a component of nearly ever Disney animated movie, so this movement has a point. Especially if folks ignore straight romanticized love in Disney movies and say that queer romanticized love is sexualization. Unfortunately by saying what you have said in your previous posts, you pretty much proved the point that this movement was trying to make.

True, but the emphasis has been on the character, be it live action or animated. The focus has not been on the genitals and the uses thereof. Why, because that is not how anyone should be identified. Be they straight or gay. It is the person that we should be focusing on, not what their "other" habits or needs are. Even the Prince and Princesses do not go there. What is achieved? If the character has qualities that can be emulated, gender or gender identification should be completely unimportant. I would think that would be a desire of all people regardless of lifestyle. In other words, for the most part, very few people really care. Why should it be pushed to the point of making people care? Is it just to say... hey, look at me, I'm "whatever". No one will ever change the minds of those that believe differently, why wake a sleeping giant. Think North Carolina. No one really had a major concern until the issue was forced. It was happening anyway and nobody was having seizures over it. Now, everyone has been forced to stand by their conviction because they are being challenged. No one is going to win from that. Moral: Live your life, be the best person you can be, strive to be a good role model and your and our lives will be much easier.