The Spirited 11th Hour ...

R

RandySavage

Well-Known Member
To put Tokyo expectations in check a bit. The stuff about "Beyond 2021 we will continue to enhance, expand & develop the parks in order to deliver the best experience for our guests..." (paraphrased) sounds like PR fluff that could be stated about any Disney park, anywhere on the globe. Even Animal Kingdom could have a new ride in the design stages 4 years after Avatar opens.

It looks like MarkTwains rumors posted here in the fall were true: major re-examination and reduction in TDR project scope (e.g. by 2021 TDS will have added a $100 mill Soarin ride versus a $500+mil new port as previously announced; parallel change/reduction at TDR).

I'm excited about what they've announced today, but it is a more modest expansion (versus the mega-restructuring and new port announced in 2014-15) that will not open for 5 years.
 
Rodan75

Rodan75

Well-Known Member
doctornick said:
As I said, the quality of the attractions is obviously key, but the description for the BatB ride sounds like exactly the type of stuff we heard for Ariel's undersea Adventure. The BatB area shows and described for Tokyo doesn't seem all that different from the BatB area + LM in new Fantasyland at MK (restaurant, shop, new ride) and the concept art even looks similar.

From the press release, it looks like the Alice in Wonderland area was scraped (or postponed). In TDS, the Scandanavian area is also not present; instead there are similar adding a clone of a pre-established ride. If this were going on at WDW, we would hear about how they are "value engineering", cutting announced attractions and taking forever to build. We would have people gripe that they are closing two rides and replacing them with two rides for no net gain in that park. But because it's Tokyo and the press release sounds warm and fuzzy, people are praising it to high heavens.

You realize the BH6 ride is the same ride as Mater's at DCA and the Little Green Aliens being built at DHS, right? The indoor theater looks great and I'm sure will have some wonderful shows, but aren't they doing the same thing at DHS with the BatB theater?

I understand that people are willing to give Tokyo the benefit of the doubt and they've earned it, but let's be fair in terms of our analysis. This is a significant cutback from what Tokyo has previously announced. (Also, if you want to talk about stagnation, when was the last ride build at the Tokyo resort. TSMM in 2012, right? Pretty big gap from then until 2020.)

Edit: Whatever happened to relocating IASW? Is that not happening?
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I agree, while this is nice. It isn't all that much different than the content the US has already received, just different themes. BATB looks like it is LMS, which would add a nice dimension to the ride, but it isn't groundbreaking. I like what they are doing at TDR but it is in line with what is happened in the US.

Wasn't the original plan much more dramatic and a larger investment?
 
FigmentForver96

FigmentForver96

Well-Known Member
doctornick said:
As I said, the quality of the attractions is obviously key, but the description for the BatB ride sounds like exactly the type of stuff we heard for Ariel's Undersea Adventure. The BatB area depicted and described for Tokyo doesn't seem all that different from the BatB area + LM in new Fantasyland at MK (restaurant, shop, new ride) and the concept art even looks similar.

From the press release, it looks like the Alice in Wonderland area was scraped (or postponed). In TDS, the Scandanavian area is also not present; instead they are adding a clone of a pre-established ride. If this were going on at WDW, we would hear about how they are "value engineering", cutting announced attractions and taking forever to build. We would have people gripe that they are closing two rides and replacing them with two rides for no net gain in that park. But because it's Tokyo and the press release sounds warm and fuzzy, people are praising it to high heavens.

You realize the BH6 ride is the same ride as Mater's at DCA and the Little Green Aliens being built at DHS, right? The indoor theater looks great and I'm sure will have some wonderful shows, but aren't they doing the same thing at DHS with the BatB theater?

I understand that people are willing to give Tokyo the benefit of the doubt and they've earned it, but let's be fair in terms of our analysis. This is a significant cutback from what Tokyo has previously announced. (Also, if you want to talk about stagnation, when was the last ride build at the Tokyo resort. TSMM in 2012, right? Pretty big gap from then until 2020.)

Edit: Whatever happened to relocating IASW? Is that not happening?
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Any modern Beauty and the Beast show in a themed theater will automatically beat what we have in Orlando. It's almost a shame to call it a show.
 
Rodan75

Rodan75

Well-Known Member
Going back to the DWA-Comcast tie-up. Looks like Comcast slowed the talks already???? Sounds a bit weird that Hasbro, Softbank and now Comcast have second thoughts the second the deal leaks.

Begins to sound like DWA is playing games for stock lifts?
 
Sped2424

Sped2424

Well-Known Member
Rodan75 said:
I agree, while this is nice. It isn't all that much different than the content the US has already received, just different themes. BATB looks like it is LMS, which would add a nice dimension to the ride, but it isn't groundbreaking. I like what they are doing at TDR but it is in line with what is happened in the US.

Wasn't the original plan much more dramatic and a larger investment?
Click to expand...
I'm sorry but this is vastly different from the us in both focus and execution. In the US fantasyland was cut to Smithers and opened with underwhelming attractions and otherwise. Here you are getting a full dedicated batb land complete with Maurice's cottage, FULL provincial town area, actual recreation of the castle from the film, state of the art family dark ride, theater for a brand new show, and all of this is just in the Batb area. Again Tokyo has committed to saying there is more coming and unlike the American parks they tend to hold true to their word. You'll find they hold the old Disney standard these days over actual Disney.
 
Sped2424

Sped2424

Well-Known Member
BrerJon said:
That's a worry indeed, "Soarin' Over The Renaissance" seems to have come out of the blue, so I wonder if budgets have been re-allocated?

Maybe OLC want to wait to see how the Frozen sequel does before committing to such a huge project, just to be sure the characters have legs and weren't just the six year old girls fad of the moment that will be irrelevant in three years time (lookin' at you Avatar).
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From what spirit has said there has been a plus sing to this project and things should be getting done in phases so Frozen and Alice etc should still be on the table.
 
brb1006

brb1006

Well-Known Member
BrerJon said:
But Florida is getting a Slinky kiddie-coaster.

The Tokyo expansion looks great, really puts Disney in the USA to shame. Reading that press release, so much stress on adding value and raising guest satisfaction, none on manipulating guests to spend more and trick them into thinking they're getting value for money. It's such a contrast to the way Iger conducts things.

I love the highly themed Soarin' cars, the US versions are just lumps of metal but these look magical. They fit perfectly with the theme of Mediterranean Harbour, and I can imagine a clever pre-show and story that makes it feel quite different, even if the film is pretty much the same as in the other parks.

The crazy thing is, by US standards both parks are way ahead and not in need of any expansion whatsoever - we'd kill for MK or Epcot to be like TDL or TDS!

And yet, with a 2020 opening, it sounds like all the new rides and expansions, in both parks, will all be complete before DHS gets its Star Wars land. How anyone will be able to justify paying the same price to visit WDW for a repeat visit instead of a Tokyo trip, I don't know.
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And the Beauty And The Beast attraction appears to be a new trackless ride just like Pooh's Honey Hunt.
 
Mike S

Mike S

Well-Known Member
doctornick said:
As I said, the quality of the attractions is obviously key, but the description for the BatB ride sounds like exactly the type of stuff we heard for Ariel's Undersea Adventure. The BatB area depicted and described for Tokyo doesn't seem all that different from the BatB area + LM in new Fantasyland at MK (restaurant, shop, new ride) and the concept art even looks similar.

From the press release, it looks like the Alice in Wonderland area was scraped (or postponed). In TDS, the Scandanavian area is also not present; instead they are adding a clone of a pre-established ride. If this were going on at WDW, we would hear about how they are "value engineering", cutting announced attractions and taking forever to build. We would have people gripe that they are closing two rides and replacing them with two rides for no net gain in that park. But because it's Tokyo and the press release sounds warm and fuzzy, people are praising it to high heavens.

You realize the BH6 ride is the same ride as Mater's at DCA and the Little Green Aliens being built at DHS, right? The indoor theater looks great and I'm sure will have some wonderful shows, but aren't they doing the same thing at DHS with the BatB theater?

I understand that people are willing to give Tokyo the benefit of the doubt and they've earned it, but let's be fair in terms of our analysis. This is a significant cutback from what Tokyo has previously announced. (Also, if you want to talk about stagnation, when was the last ride build at the Tokyo resort. TSMM in 2012, right? Pretty big gap from then until 2020.)

Edit: Whatever happened to relocating IASW? Is that not happening?
Click to expand...
The concept art for B&tB clearly shows trackless ride vehicles so it's nothing like Mermaid. Also this line of text appears for both the TDL and TDS sections not the end 2021 part.
In addition, plans are being developed for new versions of current attractions and entertainment programs.
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To me, that sounds like updates for the Fantasyland dark rides as well.
Sped2424 said:
I'm sorry but this is vastly different from the us in both focus and execution. In the US fantasyland was cut to Smithers and opened with underwhelming attractions and otherwise. Here you are getting a full dedicated batb land complete with Maurice's cottage, FULL provincial town area, actual recreation of the castle from the film, state of the art family dark ride, theater for a brand new show, and all of this is just in the Batb area. Again Tokyo has committed to saying there is more coming and unlike the American parks they tend to hold true to their word. You'll find they hold the old Disney standard these days over actual Disney.
Click to expand...
Exactly but I don't think the theater is actually part of B&tB. It sounds like they haven't confirmed anything of what show will actually be in there.
 
brb1006

brb1006

Well-Known Member
Stitchon said:
Bravo Tokyo. Da Vinci-themed Soarin? Awesome. Beauty & The Beast finally getting an E-Ticket of its own? Awesome. A new indoor theater to (presumably) replace Showbase? Awesome. While it's unfortunate that the full Fantasyland rethink is on the backburner, it's great to see exciting things coming to Tokyo.

Also: I can't help but chuckle at the blurb about human resources and maintenance. That paragraph seems like a giant FU to the domestic parks.
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I really love the concept art for Beauty And The Beast right now.
 
Cesar R M

Cesar R M

Well-Known Member
Mr. Peabody said:
The Jungle Book is the first of these remakes that I've seen, and it almost certainly will be the last. What a disappointment. Impressive animation, but the characters and new plot were mediocre and uninspired.
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Its pretty much a full remake, step by step from the cartoon. (minus one or two scenes and the fullier funnier songs)
 
brb1006

brb1006

Well-Known Member
Mike S said:
giphy.gif

That's exactly what MK's NFL needed. A real E Ticket, unlike the Seven Times Dwarfed Coaster, The Unimpressive Mermaid, or Cardboard Pretend Time with Belle.

It all looks great, and just one small ride in the whole bunch for BH6. Meanwhile people defend TSL as a place for kids and that's why it's not very impressive. Keep proving them wrong OLC. You're doing a great job. Also, that theater...... *drools*
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And I thought the Hyperion Theater at DCA was huge.
 
Cesar R M

Cesar R M

Well-Known Member
BrerJon said:
Unlike in the USA, where a frigging Mine Train kiddie ride took three years, in Japan they still adhere to the pride of constructing things efficiently and on schedule. The whole of DisneySea only took three years to build, and that was fifteen years ago, so doing all these expansions by 2020 is actually quite slow for them!
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Didnt they get slowed down because of the Olympics?
 
brb1006

brb1006

Well-Known Member
BrerJon said:
That's a worry indeed, "Soarin' Over The Renaissance" seems to have come out of the blue, so I wonder if budgets have been re-allocated?

Maybe OLC want to wait to see how the Frozen sequel does before committing to such a huge project, just to be sure the characters have legs and weren't just the six year old girls fad of the moment that will be irrelevant in three years time (lookin' at you Avatar).
Click to expand...
OSL might be making a smart move if there waiting to see how the Frozen sequel will turn out.
 
Mr. Peabody

Mr. Peabody

Well-Known Member
Cesar R M said:
Its pretty much a full remake, step by step from the cartoon. (minus one or two scenes and the fullier funnier songs)
Click to expand...
It was not a step-by-step remake of the 1967 cartoon. There were changes to the plot, tone, and characterizations that I disliked, though I still found the remake unimaginative on the whole.
 

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