The Spirited 11th Hour ...

[BrerJon]

Tokyo just announced their full batb land complete with family dark ride and full fledged beasts castle. Whenever I need a reminder that Disney really does just the bare minimum in the states 87 percent of the time Tokyo always shows me :")

But Florida is getting a Slinky kiddie-coaster.

The Tokyo expansion looks great, really puts Disney in the USA to shame. Reading that press release, so much stress on adding value and raising guest satisfaction, none on manipulating guests to spend more and trick them into thinking they're getting value for money. It's such a contrast to the way Iger conducts things.

I love the highly themed Soarin' cars, the US versions are just lumps of metal but these look magical. They fit perfectly with the theme of Mediterranean Harbour, and I can imagine a clever pre-show and story that makes it feel quite different, even if the film is pretty much the same as in the other parks.

The crazy thing is, by US standards both parks are way ahead and not in need of any expansion whatsoever - we'd kill for MK or Epcot to be like TDL or TDS!

And yet, with a 2020 opening, it sounds like all the new rides and expansions, in both parks, will all be complete before DHS gets its Star Wars land. How anyone will be able to justify paying the same price to visit WDW for a repeat visit instead of a Tokyo trip, I don't know.

 

[Sped2424]

But Florida is getting a Slinky kiddie-coaster.

The Tokyo expansion looks great, really puts Disney in the USA to shame. Reading that press release, so much stress on adding value and raising guest satisfaction, none on manipulating guests to spend more and trick them into thinking they're getting value for money. It's such a contrast to the way Iger conducts things.

I love the highly themed Soarin' cars, the US versions are just lumps of metal but these look magical. They fit perfectly with the theme of Mediterranean Harbour, and I can imagine a clever pre-show and story that makes it feel quite different, even if the film is pretty much the same as in the other parks.

And with a 2020 opening, it sounds like all the new rides and expansions, in both parks, will all be complete before DHS gets its Star Wars land.

Which is INSANE because unlike DHS none of their stuff has even broken ground or been closed off, yet their completion year is a whole year ahead of the famed dhs redo? Mind you they didn't include frozen or the other stuff in the press release.

 

[BrerJon]

Which is INSANE because unlike DHS none of their stuff has even broken ground or been closed off, yet their completion year is a whole year ahead of the famed dhs redo? Mind you they didn't include frozen or the other stuff in the press release.

Unlike in the USA, where a frigging Mine Train kiddie ride took three years, in Japan they still adhere to the pride of constructing things efficiently and on schedule. The whole of DisneySea only took three years to build, and that was fifteen years ago, so doing all these expansions by 2020 is actually quite slow for them!

 

[Stitchon]

Bravo Tokyo. Da Vinci-themed Soarin? Awesome. Beauty & The Beast finally getting an E-Ticket of its own? Awesome. A new indoor theater to (presumably) replace Showbase? Awesome. While it's unfortunate that the full Fantasyland rethink is on the backburner, it's great to see exciting things coming to Tokyo.

Also: I can't help but chuckle at the blurb about human resources and maintenance. That paragraph seems like a giant FU to the domestic parks.

 

[HMF]

Tokyo just announced their full batb land complete with family dark ride and full fledged beasts castle. Whenever I need a reminder that Disney really does just the bare minimum in the states 87 percent of the time Tokyo always shows me :")

This is what WDW should have gotten rather than an overpriced restaurant and a glorified meet & greet. It really makes my blood boil.

 

[Mike S]

But Florida is getting a Slinky kiddie-coaster.

The Tokyo expansion looks great, really puts Disney in the USA to shame. Reading that press release, so much stress on adding value and raising guest satisfaction, none on manipulating guests to spend more and trick them into thinking they're getting value for money. It's such a contrast to the way Iger conducts things.

I love the highly themed Soarin' cars, the US versions are just lumps of metal but these look magical. They fit perfectly with the theme of Mediterranean Harbour, and I can imagine a clever pre-show and story that makes it feel quite different, even if the film is pretty much the same as in the other parks.

The crazy thing is, by US standards both parks are way ahead and not in need of any expansion whatsoever - we'd kill for MK or Epcot to be like TDL or TDS!

And yet, with a 2020 opening, it sounds like all the new rides and expansions, in both parks, will all be complete before DHS gets its Star Wars land. How anyone will be able to justify paying the same price to visit WDW for a repeat visit instead of a Tokyo trip, I don't know.

That's exactly what MK's NFL needed. A real E Ticket, unlike the Seven Times Dwarfed Coaster, The Unimpressive Mermaid, or Cardboard Pretend Time with Belle.

I don't want to be the bearer of bad news but it looks like the Alice in Wonderland expansion and Small World move aren't happening. I also am worried that the press release made no mention of the Frozen port for TDS.
http://www.olc.co.jp/en/news/olcgroup/20160427_01e.pdf

It all looks great, and just one small ride in the whole bunch for BH6. Meanwhile people defend TSL as a place for kids and that's why it's not very impressive. Keep proving them wrong OLC. You're doing a great job. Also, that theater...... *drools*

 

[BrerJon]

I don't want to be the bearer of bad news but it looks like the Alice in Wonderland expansion and Small World move aren't happening. I also am worried that the press release made no mention of the Frozen port for TDS.
http://www.olc.co.jp/en/news/olcgroup/20160427_01e.pdf

That's a worry indeed, "Soarin' Over The Renaissance" seems to have come out of the blue, so I wonder if budgets have been re-allocated?

Maybe OLC want to wait to see how the Frozen sequel does before committing to such a huge project, just to be sure the characters have legs and weren't just the six year old girls fad of the moment that will be irrelevant in three years time (lookin' at you Avatar).

 

[Mike S]

That's a worry indeed, "Soarin' Over The Renaissance" seems to have come out of the blue, so I wonder if budgets have been re-allocated?

Maybe OLC want to wait to see how the Frozen sequel does before committing to such a huge project, just to be sure the characters have legs and weren't just the six year old girls fad of the moment that will be irrelevant in three years time (lookin' at you Avatar).

Avatar does look really good though. Despite whatever happens with the movies I think the land will be very popular.

 

[lazyboy97o]

Arendelle may have been a port city but the story of Frozen had nothing to do with the sea. Like the Norway Pavilion the connection was aesthetic and setting based. It wasn't the great of a concept.

 

[FigmentJedi]

Arendelle may have been a port city but the story of Frozen had nothing to do with the sea. Like the Norway Pavilion the connection was aesthetic and setting based. It wasn't the great of a concept.

Well, the expansion plan was officially labeled "Scandinavia" rather then Arendelle, so I imagine they're taking the possibilities of doing stuff outside the Frozen IP within the "Frozen" expansion into consideration. Think of it like how while Arabian Coast is based on Aladdin, you still have a Seven Voyages of Sindbad ride.

 

[BrerJon]

Arendelle may have been a port city but the story of Frozen had nothing to do with the sea. Like the Norway Pavilion the connection was aesthetic and setting based. It wasn't the great of a concept.

It's as connected as Arabian Coast or American Waterfront, I'd say - not about the ocean, but set alongside it. The attraction might even not have been a straight book report ride but could be a new tale about an ocean crossing featuring the Frozen characters.

 

[doctornick]

In TDL, they are closing the Raceway and the Star Jets and opening up a BatB ride and a BH6 flat ride. That's a net gain of zero rides. Plus, they are adding dining, merch, an indoor theater, and a Minnie M&G.

Is it really that different from the FLE expansion that people are criticizing? Obviously, a lot of would depend on the quality of what is built, but it doesn't sound that impressive superficially.

 

[Mike S]

Well, the expansion plan was officially labeled "Scandinavia" rather then Arendelle, so I imagine they're taking the possibilities of doing stuff outside the Frozen IP within the "Frozen" expansion into consideration. Think of it like how while Arabian Coast is based on Aladdin, you still have a Seven Voyages of Sindbad ride.

Exactly what I was thinking. The original concept looked very much like "Frozen Land" and not much Scandinavia except for the Stave Church.

Maybe that's being reconsidered and Frozen will only be a smaller part than originally planned. If that's the case, I'd love a Viking ride on the scale of Sinbad's Storybook Voyage

It's as connected as Arabian Coast or American Waterfront, I'd say - not about the ocean, but set alongside it. The attraction might even not have been a straight book report ride but could be a new tale about an ocean crossing featuring the Frozen characters.

Why does it say you quoted me and not @lazyboy97o?

In TDL, they are closing the Raceway and the Star Jets and opening up a BatB ride and a BH6 flat ride. That's a net gain of zero rides. Plus, they are adding dining, merch, an indoor theater, and a Minnie M&G.

Is it really that different from the FLE expansion that people are criticizing? Obviously, a lot of would depend on the quality of what is built, but it doesn't sound that impressive superficially.

Yes because this has an actual E Ticket and the indoor theater show will more than likely be better than all those damn M&G's combined. Plus, their Fantasyland was already leagues ahead of ours when it comes to attractions and now it'll be even more so.

 

[doctornick]

Yes because this has an actual E Ticket and the indoor theater show will more than likely be better than all those damn M&G's combined. Plus, their Fantasyland was already leagues ahead of ours when it comes to attractions and now it'll be even more so.

As I said, the quality of the attractions is obviously key, but the description for the BatB ride sounds like exactly the type of stuff we heard for Ariel's Undersea Adventure. The BatB area depicted and described for Tokyo doesn't seem all that different from the BatB area + LM in new Fantasyland at MK (restaurant, shop, new ride) and the concept art even looks similar.

From the press release, it looks like the Alice in Wonderland area was scraped (or postponed). In TDS, the Scandanavian area is also not present; instead they are adding a clone of a pre-established ride. If this were going on at WDW, we would hear about how they are "value engineering", cutting announced attractions and taking forever to build. We would have people gripe that they are closing two rides and replacing them with two rides for no net gain in that park. But because it's Tokyo and the press release sounds warm and fuzzy, people are praising it to high heavens.

You realize the BH6 ride is the same ride as Mater's at DCA and the Little Green Aliens being built at DHS, right? The indoor theater looks great and I'm sure will have some wonderful shows, but aren't they doing the same thing at DHS with the BatB theater?

I understand that people are willing to give Tokyo the benefit of the doubt and they've earned it, but let's be fair in terms of our analysis. This is a significant cutback from what Tokyo has previously announced. (Also, if you want to talk about stagnation, when was the last ride build at the Tokyo resort. TSMM in 2012, right? Pretty big gap from then until 2020.)

Edit: Whatever happened to relocating IASW? Is that not happening?

 

[Flippin'Flounder]

As I said, the quality of the attractions is obviously key, but the description for the BatB ride sounds like exactly the type of stuff we heard for Ariel's undersea Adventure. The BatB area shows and described for Tokyo doesn't seem all that different from the BatB area + LM in new Fantasyland at MK (restaurant, shop, new ride) and the concept art even looks similar.

From the press release, it looks like the Alice in Wonderland area was scraped (or postponed). In TDS, the Scandanavian area is also not present; instead there are similar adding a clone of a pre-established ride. If this were going on at WDW, we would hear about how they are "value engineering", cutting announced attractions and taking forever to build. We would have people gripe that they are closing two rides and replacing them with two rides for no net gain in that park. But because it's Tokyo and the press release sounds warm and fuzzy, people are praising it to high heavens.

You realize the BH6 ride is the same ride as Mater's at DCA and the Little Green Aliens being built at DHS, right? The indoor theater looks great and I'm sure will have some wonderful shows, but aren't they doing the same thing at DHS with the BatB theater?

I understand that people are willing to give Tokyo the benefit of the doubt and they've earned it, but let's be fair in terms of our analysis. This is a significant cutback from what Tokyo has previously announced. (Also, if you want to talk about stagnation, when was the last ride build at the Tokyo resort. TSMM in 2012, right? Pretty big gap from then until 2020.)

Nobody complained about Mater. Aliens would be fine if the had an E-Ticket to go with it.

 

[Herbie]

Maybe I read the attachment wrong, but the bottom of that announcement seemed to mention that there are plans for 2021 and beyond to change the landscape of the parks. Most of these currently announced experiences are labelled to open in 2020. Really hoping to see a Wonderland area see the light of day.

 

[Travel Junkie]

Maybe I read the attachment wrong, but the bottom of that announcement seemed to mention that there are plans for 2021 and beyond to change the landscape of the parks. Most of these currently announced experiences are labelled to open in 2020. Really hoping to see a Wonderland area see the light of day.

Yes it does
" Plans for fiscal year 2021 and after:


Investment plans for the further development of Tokyo Disneyland and Tokyo
DisneySea, applicable for fiscal year 2021 and after, are currently being considered by Oriental Land.
For Tokyo Disneyland, the new development plans will apply to all seven themed
lands, including Fantasyland as mentioned earlier in this release. An area-based
development for each themed land, to take place in stages, is intended to leave a lasting impact on the Park.
The large-scale development plans for Tokyo DisneySea, making use of multiple
expansion sites, are meant to achieve a rapid evolution of the only Disney park themed to
the sea, and thereby broadly raising the degree of Guest satisfaction from both a
qualitative and quantitative standpoint.
In addition, Oriental Land intends to investigate various ways to add more value to
Tokyo Disney Resort® as a whole, such as increasing the number of guest rooms at the
hotels within the Resort. Moreover, regarding plans for further growth through new business other than the
Tokyo Disney Resort business, Oriental Land will continue planning for a new and
separate business segment that is not constrained by a specific timeframe."

http://www.olc.co.jp/en/news/olcgroup/20160427_01e.pdf

This appears to be the first step in a long term expansion project for the entire resort.

 

[Rodan75]

Comcast wants Dreamworks Animation so they can go Mano-e-Mano with Disney & Pixar.

Steve Burke was once being groomed for Eisner's replacement, was forced out, later got suckered into the Comcast bid for Disney has been hell bent on taking down the mouse since 2003/4.

This is about advancing NBC Universal/Comcast As a player and a giant "screw you" to Iger.

Understood...and agreed. But I imagine that bringing Katz into Burke's world isn't a positive. But the more I think about it, it is probably the last good option for incremental IP that Comcast has. They can't buy TW due to the sheer number of Turner Cable Nets, Viacom is in total disarray, CBS & 21st Century bring broadcast issues and Lionsgate doesn't have a lot of IP and is ensnared in Liberty's web. Sony would be the only other entertainment group that could be on the block and acquirable by Comcast.

Outside of the box, both Mattel and Hasbro could be bought to unlock their IPs, especially since Hasbro sold off their production facilities and has positioned itself as a distributor, design and IP company.

So in the end...I guess DWA makes the most sense. But can't see how Iger would care about DWA, he essentially neutralized the threat it posed. Uni-Illumination has done much better on their own developing new IP.

 

[ULPO46]

Not going to say things out of context but Kaizen and Six Sigma. The Japanese and h*** even the Chinese are doing things a lot faster if not cheaper than Disney in America. Where going back into the dark ages here. I mean come on, the fact that Corporate is using Shanghai as a cheap excuse to fire and shut down certain aspects of the U.S. Operations is starting to really get to me. Friend's that were skeptical about sending their applications out of the door are looking towards Comcast, Seas, Cedar Fair, and Merlin just to name a few. I hope that this focus is just on the Parks and Resorts and doesn't affect any other division, because it's getting a little fishy as to why Shanghai has been such a mess. Because the Disney I dreamed of and currently work for, is not or never was famous for doing a half a**ed job. We were famous for building theme parks and attractions on time that blew away guest minds. We didn't close 2/3 of a theme park for 5 plus years. I'm just lost for words at this point. This is not the Disney I knew, I should have seen this coming three years ago.

 

[the.dreamfinder]

Some informed speculation given what we know about Tokyo Disney Resort:

• Tokyo Disneyland is the world's most popular theme park and the most crowded by far (As @PhotoDave219 has established, MK's higher attendance figures come from the inclusion of the ticketed Halloween and Christmas events which TDL doesn't have)
• Under the original expansion plans announced in 2014, both TDL's NFL and TDS's Scandinavian Port were going to open in 2017-2018
• Folks with knowledge of the expansions have stated these projects were going to be delayed because OLC/Disney didn't move quickly enough to secure contractors before many of the major construction projects for the 2020 Tokyo Olympics did
• While I'm not sure of the precise hourly capacity of Tokyo's Raceway, WDW's speedway has a relatively low hourly capacity given the acreage it sits on thus making the attraction an inefficient use of land
• The press release has the following legalese statement attached at the end
  • Other development plans to add value to Tokyo Disney Resort, other than those mentioned in this release, are currently under consideration. Those plans will be announced as soon as they are determined.
    
    
    So here's a plausible scenario which could explain these developments. OLC understands that it need to add capacity to both parks, but TDL needs more capacity sooner than TDS given its popularity. The Olympics will likely draw millions more tourists to the parks during the summer of 2020, further worsening the crowds and waits. However, the building boom in Tokyo for the Olympics has made it more expensive for the OLC to get the contractors it needs to build these expansions, which are already behind schedule. So the Oriental Land Company had to make a choice; to build the entire NFL and Scandinavian Port as originally envisioned in time for the Olympics at a much greater expense than planned or focus on increasing capacity as much as possible for 2020. OLC's decisionmaking here suggests that they prioritized the more immediate capacity needs of TDL by removing the speedway to build the Beauty and the Beast area from the original plans, a 1500 seat theater, which may be a new addition, and a Baymax flat ride, likely more efficient than the starjets it will replace in TL. Taken in total, these additions accomadate thousands more guests in a day than the raceway and starjets are now. Of course, TDS' Soarin' will increase that park's capacity to a lesser extent and will bring a new offering to the park in time for the Olympics in addition to any special offerings that may be planned for Summer 2020.
    
    That lawyery tag at the end of the press conference could mean all sorts of things, but it offers OLC flexibility in approaching the long term capacity challenges each park faces. BatB and the new theater could be the full extent of NFL, but the press release says, "the new development plans (post FY 2021) will apply to all seven themed lands, including Fantasyland ... An area-based development for each themed land, to take place in stages". NFL was always going to open in phases as an "expansion" (BatB, Small World, Village replacing TL Terrace) and "renovation" (Wonderland replacing original Small World and relocation of Dumbo). The location of the Baymax ride indicates the possibility Small World may end up staying where it is, though a demolition and rebuild could happen because the current show building suffered damages from the 2011 earthquake, but we don't know for certain at this point.
    
    There's no way the Scandinavian port with the Frozen E-Ticket doesn't get built though. If Frozen was a fad in Japan, it would have been played out by now. In addition to increasing capacity at both parks, OLC needs to peel guests away from TDL. Looking 5-10 years down the road,TDL will face a capacity ceiling because there won't be any more expansion pads or easy tear down targets like the raceway to build more rides, shows, shops and restaurants on. TDS may be the gold standard for themed entertainment, it needs to overcome the fact it isn't Disneyland. A day at DisneySea should be equally as great as a day at Disneyland in the eyes of all guests. The Scandinavian port is the best route to achieve this while complementing the park's thematic thesis and existing offerings. The Scandinavian port may be delayed, but it will not be cancelled.