The New Fantasyland

[flynnibus]

Ani: no one is denying the popularity TODAY of Harry Potter.. it is huge.. No one can disagree with that... The debate is whether HP can stand the test of time like Star Wars did... Some of us think no way.. Some of us think it will... That is a wait and see issue...

People forget Harry Potter is already 12 years old as a franchise. It's more popular then ever.

Star Wars is still highly regarded, but it has not enjoyed 30 years of continuous top shelf mass media acceptance. By the late Eighties, Star Wars had already been usurped by other more recent franchises in the children of the day. It suffered from a lack of new content outside the hardcore audiences.

It wasn't until Lucas revisited the trilogy in '99 that star wars was reintroduced to a new generation. Star Wars has been reinvested in in the last decade to feed it's popularity.

It's not a fair comparison to argue it has some unlimited staying power.. it's still being fed to the audiences. There is actually a huge gap in there where Star Wars was a thing of the fans - not mass market.

Harry Potter is supposedly done as novels - but there is nothing saying the universe is finished or that JKR will not revisit the characters in the future... just like Lucas did 10+ years later.

 

[WDW1974]

Quality storytelling, no matter the platform, is timeless.

I'm no Harry Potter fanboi (only have seen four of the first five films and none in a theater, although I am seeing the new one this week, and have never picked up a book). And not really a SW fanboi either ... loved the first three films, but the last three were bad enough (only the last was redeeming at all) to make me think Lucas set out to destroy all he had created before.

That said, these franchises can and will go on for decades (if not longer) because they aren't flashes in the pans ... they are timeless.

And they don't need any new product as far as films/books etc to keep on keeping on. It's very simplistic to think otherwise.

If WWoHP is as great as it is shaping up to be at IOA, people won't be yawning about it in 2019.

Great attractions like great stories are timeless.

Now what this has to do with Fantasyland expansion I'm not sure but the thread has seemed to morph. And at least it keeps y'all from talking about Disney's monorail and bus crashes!

 

[ParkMan73]

I grew up smack dab in the middle on the Star Wars generation. I spent more time than you could imagine dreaming about SW adventures. I'm also a BIG fan of Harry Potter. I've read all the books - seen all the movies.

I see a difference between the two. Potter is a fun story of a person set in a world of magic & wonder. Star Wars is full of ships, space travel, storm troopers, & Jedi's battles - no to mention the space battles. Those things really grabbed my imagination. When I was 6 what I would have done for a light saber!

I've now got a 6 year old - he likes both Potter & SW. Ask him which one he likes better. It doesn't even take a second for him to respond - it's clearly Star Wars.

I suspect Potter will pull some attendance away from WDW over the next few years. I'll think about going there myself. However, it's got to be reasonably priced. If it comes down to a few hundred dollars in tickets + transportation to do it - it will probably not happen.

I suspect that even if there is a noticeable number of people heading over to see Potter - it will have to drop off over the years. Once you've done it, you've done it.

I've thought about going to Universal before - then we start planning our WDW trip. I contemplate taking a day or two away from WDW - then I quickly decide to stay at WDW. To me, WDW isn't about a ride (even if it's Star Wars), but time spent in the Disney atmosphere. It's strolling from our hotel to a park in the morning, riding many rides, seeing the characters, eating a Mickey bar sitting along Main Street, watching the "street" performers, and many, many other things... Taking a day or two off to do something else just hasn't been worth it.

 

[RSoxNo1]

whiners is a poor term because there are alot of people with legitimate problems with the way Disney operates but we all get catagorized with the kooks.

Little Mermaid clone is fine but instead of more meet & greets and redressing toon town from fab 5 M&Gs to princess M&Gs the money can be better spent upgrading the existing fantasyland dark rides to bring them out of the 1970s and bring them into the 21st century so that they are on par with the same attractions at all the other Magic Kingdoms.

Getting back to Mermaid, while it will be ok I just think that of all the other real proposals, rumors, and fanboy speculation of a Jules Verne ride (Journey to the center of the earth, etc.), Villian Mountain, a Narnia attraction, etc. they are just going to clone a DCA attraction (albiet a good one). Just seems that that spot of land had far more potential.

It's been discussed on here that there will be upgrades to most of, if not all of Fantasyland to include the RFID technology. For those people that go back once every year they'll look out for the new refurbishments and new attractions. I think the RFID technology will result in a flurry of refurbishments, and allow Disney to keep these annual visitors happy with an ever evolving park. Sure, a change in scope of meet and greets of the fab 5 to the princesses may not effect everyone. But what if instead of blue prints, Disney came out with a press release that said they were doing a major overhaul of Fantasyland that included one new E-Ticket (Little Mermaid), the relocation of Dumbo to the Toon Town area with an increase in capacity, and new interactive elements to every dark ride but it's a small world, as well as 3 new princess meet and greets, what would your reaction be then?

you do realize that after the 8th movie comes out there will be no more new Potter material to keep the flames going. Not only that, but Potter's relevance in literature has already been usurped by Twilight. Yes, the flash is on it's way to being extinguished. Besides, what was Half Blood Prince up against? Transformers 2? yeah it was so hard winning the weekend box office.

Winning the weekend box office was a foregone conclusion for this movie back when the first Harry Potter movie came out. Universal is also making a Transformers ride in Universal Hollywood, why aren't we complaining about how that's not going to hold up as a franchise either?

Why don't we go into Song of the South, that's not going to hold up as a franchise so it's safe to say that Splash Mountain won't hold up.

What about Peter Pan, they need to make new movies for that ride to be relevant again.

Indiana Jones and Star Wars don't hold up as franchise's either. I guess you weren't at Star Wars weekends.

And yet, Transformers made some serious cash... It has been out what, 3 weeks now???? If HP couldn't over come Bruno and a movie out 3 weeks, something would have seriously been wrong... It is this generations big thing... Will fade as they get older.. Will disappear as time goes on.. JK already said no more Potter... George Lucas continues to pump out Star Wars material... Other authors continue to write Star Wars books.... Star Wars continues to be relevant and popular today cause George Lucas will not abandon it.. JK will abandon HP...

So Star Wars continues to be relevant because people are loving the watered down excrement that George Lucas is passing off as Star Wars product? What J.K. Rowling will do is be an retentive protector of her franchise. She hasn't allowed it to be cheapened in any capacity, while still broadening it's scope.

Not just that.. Don't forget.. Star Wars had cartoons, holiday specials, made for TV movies... You name it, Star Wars had it.. Now it has, like you said, 3 new movies added to the original trilogy, major major video games (heck, spin off after spin off of very popular video games I may add), a cartoon series based on the Clone Wars (more geared to the younger generation but watchable for all Star Wars fans), and a live action TV show in the works... Star Wars Weekends in Disney are insanelt popular with adults and kids... Star Wars' own convetions are major events themselves.... If HP can do all these things without boring people, then I will say it is on the same level as Star Wars... Until then, I cannot put it at such a high standard..

I would say that since the original Star Wars trilogy, George Lucas and Star Wars has lost more fans of Star Wars because of the additional content as opposed to generate new fans because of the additional content. These fans are generated largely by the original trilogy

Quality storytelling, no matter the platform, is timeless.

I'm no Harry Potter fanboi (only have seen four of the first five films and none in a theater, although I am seeing the new one this week, and have never picked up a book). And not really a SW fanboi either ... loved the first three films, but the last three were bad enough (only the last was redeeming at all) to make me think Lucas set out to destroy all he had created before.

That said, these franchises can and will go on for decades (if not longer) because they aren't flashes in the pans ... they are timeless.

And they don't need any new product as far as films/books etc to keep on keeping on. It's very simplistic to think otherwise.

If WWoHP is as great as it is shaping up to be at IOA, people won't be yawning about it in 2019.

Great attractions like great stories are timeless.

Now what this has to do with Fantasyland expansion I'm not sure but the thread has seemed to morph. And at least it keeps y'all from talking about Disney's monorail and bus crashes!

Agreed.

 

[dxwwf3]

If the Little Mermaid attraction does get built, and it isn't a scaled down version from what DCA is getting (Which is what rumors have been saying for some time), and it is done on a true E-ticket scale, it will be something to get excited about. Honestly it would be something to praise Disney on.

But the rest of this proposal doesn't seem to be nearly as family friendly as the TLM attraction. 3 or 4 new meet and greets will be nice for a certain specific crowd, but it would be nice for an expansion as large as this to have more things for the entire family. I know Fantasyland has a focus on the little ones, but the rest of the family will be visiting the new sections too.

 

[Captain Chaos]

I have nothing more to say to you

Threat or a promise?? Please let it be a promise...

As far as vile goes, saying you wil go away if people ignore you is vile?? Than what about calling kids who like to play around in playgrounds ADD?? Thought so...

Anyway, back to the members on here who can carry on decent conversations without resorting to high school bickering... And back to topic, enough HP nonsense...

On the plans, anyone notice where the stroller parking will be?? LOL

 

[WDW1974]

I suspect that even if there is a noticeable number of people heading over to see Potter - it will have to drop off over the years. Once you've done it, you've done it.

I've thought about going to Universal before - then we start planning our WDW trip. I contemplate taking a day or two away from WDW - then I quickly decide to stay at WDW. To me, WDW isn't about a ride (even if it's Star Wars), but time spent in the Disney atmosphere. It's strolling from our hotel to a park in the morning, riding many rides, seeing the characters, eating a Mickey bar sitting along Main Street, watching the "street" performers, and many, many other things... Taking a day or two off to do something else just hasn't been worth it.

That's you ... and this is a WDW-centric site.

I'd be shocked if 90% or more folks didn't agree with you.

But for many visitors to WDW, once you've done it, you've done it. They see it as a place to take the family ... a rite of passage ... and that's it. They aren't high on pixie dust. They see the good, the bad and the ugly ... and whether they love it, hate it or are in between ... that's it.

For many, there's very little if any difference from visiting Universal and Disney ... it's all part of doing the Orlando theme park vacation.

As much as I love Disney ( just got back from 11 days at WDW, have trips coming to DLP, DL and TDL, as well as returns to WDW -- all in 2009!!!) the pixie dust doesn't work on me anymore ... I need substance, not marketing hype.

 

[brent2124]

That's you ... and this is a WDW-centric site.

I'd be shocked if 90% or more folks didn't agree with you.

But for many visitors to WDW, once you've done it, you've done it. They see it as a place to take the family ... a rite of passage ... and that's it. They aren't high on pixie dust. They see the good, the bad and the ugly ... and whether they love it, hate it or are in between ... that's it.

For many, there's very little if any difference from visiting Universal and Disney ... it's all part of doing the Orlando theme park vacation.

As much as I love Disney ( just got back from 11 days at WDW, have trips coming to DLP, DL and TDL, as well as returns to WDW -- all in 2009!!!) the pixie dust doesn't work on me anymore ... I need substance, not marketing hype.

Just out of curioustiy what do you do for a living? Are you retired? THats a lot of trips still this year, Im jealous!

 

[SirGoofy]

Just out of curioustiy what do you do for a living? Are you retired? THats a lot of trips still this year, Im jealous!

He destroys lives and sucks the souls out of children. At least that's what jt thinks.:lol:

 

[Captain Chaos]

It's been discussed on here that there will be upgrades to most of, if not all of Fantasyland to include the RFID technology. For those people that go back once every year they'll look out for the new refurbishments and new attractions. I think the RFID technology will result in a flurry of refurbishments, and allow Disney to keep these annual visitors happy with an ever evolving park. Sure, a change in scope of meet and greets of the fab 5 to the princesses may not effect everyone. But what if instead of blue prints, Disney came out with a press release that said they were doing a major overhaul of Fantasyland that included one new E-Ticket (Little Mermaid), the relocation of Dumbo to the Toon Town area with an increase in capacity, and new interactive elements to every dark ride but it's a small world, as well as 3 new princess meet and greets, what would your reaction be then?

He will still say everything in WDW stinks...

Winning the weekend box office was a foregone conclusion for this movie back when the first Harry Potter movie came out. Universal is also making a Transformers ride in Universal Hollywood, why aren't we complaining about how that's not going to hold up as a franchise either?

Why don't we go into Song of the South, that's not going to hold up as a franchise so it's safe to say that Splash Mountain won't hold up.

What about Peter Pan, they need to make new movies for that ride to be relevant again.

Indiana Jones and Star Wars don't hold up as franchise's either. I guess you weren't at Star Wars weekends.

Attractions and franchises, I think, are different... While people may flock to a transformers attraction (providing it is killer), but the franchise itself may die out... Right now, the movies are huge, as is HP, but, there will come a point when then next Transformer movie won't pull in $300 million... and eventually the movies fade into the sunset... The franchise may be dead, but the attarction lives on...

So Star Wars continues to be relevant because people are loving the watered down excrement that George Lucas is passing off as Star Wars product? What J.K. Rowling will do is be an retentive protector of her franchise. She hasn't allowed it to be cheapened in any capacity, while still broadening it's scope.

Yes, Star Wars continues to be popular because Lucas keeps putting it out there... No one can ever forget it... The Clone Wars cartoon series is geared for kids, opening up a whole new generation of Star Wars fans... My cousin's son is 3 knows and loves the Star Wars stuff... I can reasonably assume many many more youngsters his age love it too.. And you call everything watered down.. Play the video games???? I wouldn't call the games watered down excrement.. How about the book series that continue to be published month after month??? None of them are watered down... And well, of we wanna quote box office numbers, then the recent trilogy was anything but watered down... Rowling already said Potter is done... There are no massive video games, no more books, no TV series, nothing... Her words, not my opinion... So, how exactly is she broadening it's scope??

I would say that since the original Star Wars trilogy, George Lucas and Star Wars has lost more fans of Star Wars because of the additional content as opposed to generate new fans because of the additional content. These fans are generated largely by the original trilogy

And I would say you are wrong... Ever been to a Star Wars convention??? Ever been to Star Wars Weekends??? You will be hard pressed to find people who are now turned off by the Star Wars stories cause of three new movies and a cartoon series not geared to adults (even though I find them watchable, but not great)... And again, read above.. there are new waves of Star Wars fans created due to the new stuff put out by Lucas and Lucasfilms...

 

[WDW1974]

Just out of curioustiy what do you do for a living? Are you retired? THats a lot of trips still this year, Im jealous!

Let's just say I am a creative spirit and work in a creative field ... and I am most certainly not retired, although working far less due to the great economy!

And I often travel for business and add Disney where it's convenient (as I'll be doing in Anaheim in September). And TDL is a place I've never been (Japan .. period) so thus far that's a once-in-a-lifetime deal.

2009 has been a very slow year for me ... I've yet to set foot out of Florida. The first time that's happened in almost two decades!

 

[EPCOT Explorer]

For the Record:

DARK RIDE COUNT

Studios-
Tower of Terror
Rock N Roller Coaster
Great Movie Ride
Midway Mania

4

Animal Kingdom-
Countdown

1

Epcot-
Spaceship Earth
Imagination
Test Track
Universe of Energy
Gran Fiesta Tour
Maelstrom
Nemo

7

EPCOT Center-
Spaceship Earth
Universe of Energy
Horizons
World of Motion
Imagination
Maelstrom
El Rio

7


Magic Kingdom-
Pirates
Mansion
Small World
Peter Pan
Snow White
Pooh
Splash Mountain
Buzz

8

Disneyland Paris-
Pirates
Phantom Manor
Snow White
Pinocchio
Peter Pan
Small World
Space Mountain Mission 2
Buzz

8

Walt Disney Studios Paris-
Tower of Terror
Crush's Coaster

2

Universal Studios Florida-
Revenge of the Mummy
Men In Black
E.T.

3

Islands of Adventure-
Spiderman
Dudley-Do-Right
Cat in the Hat

3

HKDL-
Pooh
Small World
Buzz

3

Tokyo Disneyland-
Pirates
Splash Mountain
Peter Pan
Snow White
Pinocchio
Haunted Mansion
Small World
Pooh's Hunny Hunt
Roger Rabbit
Buzz
Monsters Inc. Ride and Go Seek

11

Tokyo DisneySea
Tower of Terror
Journey to the Center of the Earth
20,000 Leagues Under the Sea
Sinbad
Indiana Jones Adventure

5

DCA-
Monsters Inc.
Tower of Terror
Midway Mania

3

Disneyland-
Indiana Jones Adventure
Pirates
Mansion
Splash Mountain
Pooh
Pinocchio
Snow White
Peter Pan
Mr.Toad
Alice in Wonderland
Small World
Roger Rabbit
Submarine Voyage
Buzz

14

As you can see, the Dark Ride count is mostly average with other parks that people DON'T complain about lack of Dark Rides.

And as you can also see, if you like Dark Rides, Disneyland is the place to be.

Quite nice, Servo.

*looks at DL with longing*

Yes

:sohappy::king:

Honestly, Steve...All I need to hear. If you say it...I'm pretty sure of it.:wave:

It's a NEW "E" Ticket attraction people!

Be happy.

We have been clamoring for this for years.

We are finally getting it and now you people are saying you aren't happy with it! ???

WHAT GIVES ...what will it take to make you happy?

Seriously! It could be more, but I'm thrilled! What's to say they don't expand the expansion! At least it's finally here.

He destroys lives and sucks the souls out of children. At least that's what jt thinks.:lol:

I've seen him do it in person. Frightening.:lookaroun:lol:

 

[WDW1974]

He destroys lives and sucks the souls out of children. At least that's what jt thinks.:lol:

To be fair, JT's right on that count.

But that's just what I do for a hobby!:drevil:

 

[Captain Chaos]

I've seen him do it in person. Frightening.:lookaroun:lol:

To be fair, JT's right on that count.

But that's just what I do for a hobby!:drevil:

I heard Universal was looking to hire 74 as the entertainment for Horror Nights... :lol:

 

[castevens]

To mention a bit on the Harry Potter/Star Wars "timelessness" argument, one thing that I haven't read yet (although I admit I haven't read all posts relavent to the argument) is the idea of the ride/land itself adding to the mystique/folklore/timelessness. I saw the argument that Star Wars is timeless because it has spun off books and TV shows and, oh yeah, a Disney ride! How many young'uns (younger than ourselves) first heard about Star Wars at DHS? It probably got them interested in what the movies were all about! WWoHP will help to *make* Harry Potter timeless, if built correctly.

I had never seen Song of the South before going on Splash Mountain for the first time. Going on the ride convinced me to do more research, ultimately ending in me watching the film. Some have mentioned the interestingness of Disney building a brand-new ride based on a movie that came out literally two decades ago -- but I think many young girls who haven't already seen the movie will want to go see it, and those who have will feel a greater connection to the movie.

The rides, or in this case the Harry Potter land, will help make the franchise last "forever."

 

[cdunbar]

Yea, because Star Wars and Indiana Jones had so much to keep things going as well right? And no, Potter has no where near been replaced by Twighlight. Twighlight is for tween girls. Almost everyone I know has read the HP books and seen the movies. My grandmother and aunts have read the books, and my sister, who is the target demographic for Twighlight hated it because she said, "They're just trying to copy Harry."

Honestly, think about things before you type them.

I don't think its appropriate to speak to S.E.A in that matter. She was just sharing her opinion, she does NOT deserve to be beraided. And one comment off topic... How in the world is twilight copying harry potter? Wizards, Vampires completly different supernatural beings...

 

[tomman710]

That's you ... and this is a WDW-centric site.

I'd be shocked if 90% or more folks didn't agree with you.

But for many visitors to WDW, once you've done it, you've done it. They see it as a place to take the family ... a rite of passage ... and that's it. They aren't high on pixie dust. They see the good, the bad and the ugly ... and whether they love it, hate it or are in between ... that's it.

For many, there's very little if any difference from visiting Universal and Disney ... it's all part of doing the Orlando theme park vacation.

As much as I love Disney ( just got back from 11 days at WDW, have trips coming to DLP, DL and TDL, as well as returns to WDW -- all in 2009!!!) the pixie dust doesn't work on me anymore ... I need substance, not marketing hype.

I completely disagree. Now obviously I am a Disney fan, on a Disney site but I live in Texas and I have purchased annual passes to both Disney and Universal, granted I have only done the annual pass to Uni once and plan on never doing it again, it got old fast. My wife is from FL so we are always there so it makes the annual passes worth it. I think we are done with Universal and HP isn't changing that, we've done it and really we regret the passes because the rides got old ... now thats just our opinion ...

However, living in Texas we are surround by many different types of families and not living close to Disney I think provides a perspective on their outlook ... and I don't know ANYONE that would plan a trip to Uni, Uni is ALWAYS an afterthought if a thought at all. WDW is the place to go and not only that but I have spoken with two families who were first timers recently and both said they HAVE to go back to WDW. I would be really shocked if most families felt WDW is a "one time, done it" thing.

These aren't families high on pixie dust, they don't live close to FL, and they don't plan on going every year but they do plan on going back in a few years ... my point is there is a HUGE difference between WDW and Uni even to the regular joe family, leaving the rest of us out of it. WDW is a must do and must revisit for probaby the majority of families and Uni is at best an afterthought, nice diversion for a day but I doubt anyone would plan a trip specifically to go to Uni and crave out a day for WDW (Now HP may change that for Potter fans) ... that just doesn't happen, now the opposite is true though ... and that's why I disagree.

Just my opinion though.

 

[JustInTime]

you do realize that after the 8th movie comes out there will be no more new Potter material to keep the flames going. Not only that, but Potter's relevance in literature has already been usurped by Twilight. Yes, the flash is on it's way to being extinguished. Besides, what was Half Blood Prince up against? Transformers 2? yeah it was so hard winning the weekend box office.

Usurped? Ok...lets break it down

Books:

Twilight series sold, around 20 million

Harry Potter series sold, over 400 Million

Movies:

Twilight, $382,133,300

Harry Potter 6, $938,212,738


At the height of the Twilight book craze, Breaking Yawn sold a total of 1.3 million in 24 hours.

Harry Potter 7 sold 15 million over-night.

These are worldwide figures. To say that Twilight has put any kind of "hold' on Harry Potter is COMPLETELY false. Sorry, but you are wrong. Twilight is a fad. Harry Potter has been popular for over 10 years now and it is not slowing down. It is by far the best fictional series of all time and it is a classic. Not only with, "Star Wars", but with greats like, "To Kill a Mockingbird"", "The Wizard of Oz"(which was written 110 years ago), and "The Lord of the Rings". Our willingness to fight back for the defense of Potter should be PLENTY of evidence that the Potter fan base will be forever loyal. I know i'm Dumbledore's man, through and through.

:king:

 

[TP2000]

yes it's a clone, but it's clone of something that doesn't exist yet, for all we know our Mermaid will come out better since it's not being shoe horned into an existing building.

I think you are confused just a bit. :animwink:

DCA's Mermaid ride is NOT being put in an "existing building". The building that existed there previously was torn down just last week. I was in DCA last night for dinner and the Electrical Parade, and I can assure you that the future site of Little Mermaid is nothing but a giant pile of rubble and dirt with a giant Volvo front loader parked on the pile of concrete that used to be the queue for Golden Dreams.

If you'd like accurate information on the 1 Billion Dollar Extreme Makeover of DCA, you might enjoy checking out WDI's new website they launched this week that shows all about the future of DCA through 2012, including the new building being constructed for Little Mermaid. http://www.disneyscaliforniaadventure.com

 

[whylightbulb]

I think we are done with Universal and HP isn't changing that, we've done it and really we regret the passes because the rides got old ... now thats just our opinion ...

I do hope you will change your mind after Potter opens. The entire land is shaping up to be nothing short of spectacular! Everything from the toy store to the interactive elements throughout the land will be amazing. Hogwarts and the ride inside will be worth the price of admission alone. This may be one land that universal out Disneys Disney.