The New Fantasyland

jt04

Well-Known Member
Don't run away yet, I have a question...

We've seen one, small, black and white, vague, two-dimensional schematic of a large piece of property. There's no hint of what these buildings might look like from ground level, not even a charcoal sketch of an abstract form of a building, let alone color sketches or any hint of what the interior shows and attractions might be like. Just one vague aerial schematic with lots of information missing.

And from that lone and simple schematic, you have already declared the Fantasyland expansion of some undetermined future year to be "a WDI masterpiece"? Wow. :D

I have very good conceptual skills. What can I say? Study the details of the queues and other features. They are amazing. Again, it is all based on the project being fully realized at least in the long run.

By the way, I think I know where and what will be the phase 2 E-ticket for this project but I can't say any more than that. There is room for a thrill E ticket and a toontown should they ever be so inclined. Think Adventureland pre-PotC. That is all I'm saying. :zipit:
 

JustInTime

Well-Known Member
Of course I've read it. Loved it. And as a history buff, I loved the Gold Standard message in it.

I'd also like to see who calls it a poorly written novel. Because teachers professors, and other writers call it a literary classic.

The gold standard theory is nothing more than a theory. It was never even proven. I have read many books on Baum. Yes, he was a politician bit his stories were made up. He would tell them to his children and make them up as he went along. There was no careful, pre-though political message in it. There are even witness accounts of Baum making up the stories as he told the neighboring children. The kids would add touches to the story(such as the Cowardly Lion and Dorthey, who was supposed to be a boy at first) and the touches would stick. It was a random. Baum said he got the name of OZ from a filing cabinet. They were lettered a-n and o-z. Just another random act. People think that "Oz" stands for Ounce. Nah. This entire theory is as true as Big Foot. It is just people with too much time on their hands looking into someting for too long. You could do the same thing with Harry Potter and the gold standard theory. And in the end, I stand by my words(you really destracted my point) Harry Potter is better than twilight and it is one of the best fiction series ever written.


P.S. Just Google "wizard of oz poorly written". You will find paggges of stuff.
 

JustInTime

Well-Known Member
Ok, one last post on the debate. Aol, recently posted a news article with the top ten books to read before you die. Here is the link:

http://shopping.aol.com/articles/2008/07/08/10-books-to-read-before-you-die/

As you can see, Harry Potter comes in ahead of To Kill A Mockingbird at number four (alas, Oz books are forgotten). This is just one of many things I have seen like this proving that Harry Potter deserves it's spot. Entertainment weekly named it number two out of top 100 novels. There are dozens(if not hundreds) of articals supporting my clam. Harry Potter is classic and we have never seen anything like this in the literature. Give credit where due. Stop falling short. Don't debate to debate. Go big or go home...
 

jt04

Well-Known Member
Ok, one last post on the debate. Aol, recently posted a news article with the top ten books to read before you die. Here is the link:

http://shopping.aol.com/articles/2008/07/08/10-books-to-read-before-you-die/

As you can see, Harry Potter comes in ahead of To Kill A Mockingbird at number four (alas, Oz books are forgotten). This is just one of many things I have seen like this proving that Harry Potter deserves it's spot. Entertainment weekly named it number two out of top 100 novels. There are dozens(if not hundreds) of articals supporting my clam. Harry Potter is classic and we have never seen anything like this in the literature. Give credit where due. Stop falling short. Don't debate to debate. Go big or go home...

All it proves to me is the pop culture is getting dangerously powerful and the "sheeple" are dumber than any of our worst fears. Move along lemmings, your cliff awaits. :lol:


:lookaroun
 

Scar Junior

Active Member
Have to correct you on that one. I know plenty of people, myself included, who can't stand all of that stupid, idiotic Harry Potter crap and would gladly have nothing to do with it. Given that we may be a minority, but still.....

I've got to agree with you. I'm not trying to step on anyone's toes but I am in no way interested in Harry Potterland (or whatever it's called).

Neither are my parents and their friends, neither is my sister and her husband (and his family), neither are any of my friends who went to see Harry Potter at 12 am in the theatre.

I told 7 pr 8 people about the new land and all the money Universal was putting into it; how great the rides are supposed to be.... (anticipating their excitement) and their responses all we're "Oh? Really? That's Cool." It was in a humoring tone. Of the several times I mentioned it, not one had a follow-up question or seemed interested.

I don't think Harry Potter will fall on it's face. I know there are people in other parts of the country that are anticipating the opening... But I don't know anyone who will be visiting UO on account of it... I also think the people on this site are an inaccurate sample of the general public and will generally be more likely to visit than Joe Sixpack.
 

sponono88

Well-Known Member
I have very good conceptual skills. What can I say? Study the details of the queues and other features. They are amazing. Again, it is all based on the project being fully realized at least in the long run.

By the way, I think I know where and what will be the phase 2 E-ticket for this project but I can't say any more than that. There is room for a thrill E ticket and a toontown should they ever be so inclined. Think Adventureland pre-PotC. That is all I'm saying. :zipit:

phase 2? They haven't even announced phase 1 yet!
 

dr_teeth90210

Active Member
I am in no way interested in Harry Potterland

Neither are my parents and their friends, neither is my sister and her husband (and his family), neither are any of my friends who went to see Harry Potter at 12 am in the theatre.

..... I also think the people on this site are an inaccurate sample of the general public and will generally be more likely to visit than Joe Sixpack.

The thousands of people that visit these boards is somehow a less accurate depiction of the traveling public compared to your "7 or 8 friends"???
 

nerdboyrockstar

Well-Known Member
I've got to agree with you. I'm not trying to step on anyone's toes but I am in no way interested in Harry Potterland (or whatever it's called).

Neither are my parents and their friends, neither is my sister and her husband (and his family), neither are any of my friends who went to see Harry Potter at 12 am in the theatre.

I told 7 pr 8 people about the new land and all the money Universal was putting into it; how great the rides are supposed to be.... (anticipating their excitement) and their responses all we're "Oh? Really? That's Cool." It was in a humoring tone. Of the several times I mentioned it, not one had a follow-up question or seemed interested.

I don't think Harry Potter will fall on it's face. I know there are people in other parts of the country that are anticipating the opening... But I don't know anyone who will be visiting UO on account of it... I also think the people on this site are an inaccurate sample of the general public and will generally be more likely to visit than Joe Sixpack.

Hmm.. well considering the latest Harry Potter film just made $400 million worldwide in 5 days, I'm sure there's a few potential visitors outside of this site who'll disagree with you.
 

marsrunner

New Member
Ok, one last post on the debate. Aol, recently posted a news article with the top ten books to read before you die. Here is the link:

http://shopping.aol.com/articles/2008/07/08/10-books-to-read-before-you-die/

As you can see, Harry Potter comes in ahead of To Kill A Mockingbird at number four (alas, Oz books are forgotten). This is just one of many things I have seen like this proving that Harry Potter deserves it's spot. Entertainment weekly named it number two out of top 100 novels. There are dozens(if not hundreds) of articals supporting my clam. Harry Potter is classic and we have never seen anything like this in the literature. Give credit where due. Stop falling short. Don't debate to debate. Go big or go home...

I love Harry Potter. Its one of my favorite series. But seriously, I can name at least 50 novels I've read that are better pieces of literature. And that AOL list you pointed to is not exactly a strong argument. Any list that has two Dan Brown novels (DaVinci Code and Angels & Demons) in the top ten must reads is not exactly a serious list of literature in my book. Dan Brown is a quintessiential example of popular tripe.

Heck, Harry Potter isn't even the best science fiction/fantasy series I've ever read. It would be in about 5th place behind The Lord of the Rings (Tolkien), The Dark Tower (King), The Foundation Series (Asimov) and The Robot Novels (Asimov).

That being said, I will be at Universal with bells on :))) when the Wizarding World of Harry Potter opens. Everyone in my family is desperately looking forward to it.
 

TP2000

Well-Known Member
I have very good conceptual skills. What can I say? Study the details of the queues and other features. They are amazing. Again, it is all based on the project being fully realized at least in the long run.

Yeah, I've seen the queues. Fastpass and Standy are clearly visible for Mermaid. You can see where they have the ability to open more switchbacks for the Princess palaces and meet n' greets even. Most walkways, and even some water features, are visible.

But so much is left open to guessing and wishing... Ground treatments, landscaping and horticulture, surfaces and materials, rooflines, elevations, color palettes, scale, and even the architectural style. All of those are unknown. Let alone the smaller details like lighting, light fixtures, exterior props, hardware and fixtures, interactive elements, place names and their signage, etc., etc.

And that's just the exterior. We don't even know what is happening inside the buildings we only know the basic exterior outlines of.

For instance, what the heck is a "NEXTGEN Interactive Queue" for a double Dumbo spinning ride? So we get chipped with an RFID tag upon arrival at Orlando International Airport and Disney knows our hometown and our favorite flavor of ice cream any time we enter a line for a ride. Then what? How does that pertain to waiting for 30 minutes to spin for 90 seconds in a fiberglass elephant?

You may have good conceptual skills, and I applaud that, but conceptual skills can only go so far with a small PDF file of a basic schematic with very few details.
 

Scar Junior

Active Member
No more creepy than JT's man crush on '74.

The plans were taken down by the mods, and requested not to be posted.

I've been quiet for a long time... but honestly... you talk about JT as much or more than he talks about 74. Even if you don't think so... keep in mind that others view it this way.

He destroys lives and sucks the souls out of children. At least that's what jt thinks.:lol:

... like I said before...

The thousands of people that visit these boards is somehow a less accurate depiction of the traveling public compared to your "7 or 8 friends"???

That's not what I said at all. My friends aren't as nerdy as us. They would never spend a few hours discussing Harry Potter vs. X franchise (Disney, Star Wars, Indiana Jones, etc)... and neither am I... until this post. I am not into these franchises... (I've never seen a Harry Potter or original Star Wars movie..) I am in to Disney World though - which is why I have been visiting this site for almost 10 years. The fact is the people who would be attracted to this site are more likely to be into Harry Potter, Star Wars, etc. than the general public. Thus, the discussion boards is a bad sample of the public. Got it?


Hmm.. well considering the latest Harry Potter film just made $400 million worldwide in 5 days, I'm sure there's a few potential visitors outside of this site who'll disagree with you.

Yeah? What's your point? I didn't say Harry Potter isn't a successful business venture. I like that though... you trying to be cute by being sarcastic. Keep it up. It seems to be working.
 

whylightbulb

Well-Known Member
I'm not trying to step on anyone's toes but I am in no way interested in Harry Potterland (or whatever it's called).

Neither are my parents and their friends, neither is my sister and her husband (and his family), neither are any of my friends who went to see Harry Potter at 12 am in the theatre.
Not visiting TWWOHP will be your loss. It doesn't surprise me that you and the people you polled are not interested. I've talked to many people that have absolutely no interest in visiting WDW or any of the Disney parks. I can sit there till I'm blue in the face lauding the wonders of Disney (or Universal for that matter) and they will remain apathetic till the end. If people don't know what to expect and they have nothing to compare it to they won't be interested.

If Disney were building Potter would you be interested? I can tell you this is the first time in a long time that film makers, rather than theme park designers and engineers that don't understand visual storytelling and cinematic artistry, are heavily involved in the development of a theme park project. This is of course the way Disneyland started and continued until most of the original designers died and retired. Yes now Disney has Lasseter and there will hopefully be a return back to the basics but for now TWWOHP will be well worth visiting whether you are a fan of the HP property or not. Potter will be a theme park masterpiece once everything is working reliably.

I told 7 pr 8 people about the new land and all the money Universal was putting into it; how great the rides are supposed to be.... (anticipating their excitement) and their responses all we're "Oh? Really? That's Cool." It was in a humoring tone. Of the several times I mentioned it, not one had a follow-up question or seemed interested.
Once again this doesn't surprise me. They don't have anything to reference it to and the marketing campaign has not begun yet. This land will be unlike anything they have experienced to date. I don't mean to make it sound like a trip to Nirvana, but it will easily compete with anything Disney or Universal has completed so far.
 

WDWFigment

Well-Known Member
Ok, one last post on the debate. Aol, recently posted a news article with the top ten books to read before you die. Here is the link:

http://shopping.aol.com/articles/2008/07/08/10-books-to-read-before-you-die/

As you can see, Harry Potter comes in ahead of To Kill A Mockingbird at number four (alas, Oz books are forgotten). This is just one of many things I have seen like this proving that Harry Potter deserves it's spot. Entertainment weekly named it number two out of top 100 novels. There are dozens(if not hundreds) of articals supporting my clam. Harry Potter is classic and we have never seen anything like this in the literature. Give credit where due. Stop falling short. Don't debate to debate. Go big or go home...

Having read neither the Wizard of Oz nor any of the Potter series, I won't weigh into the substantive argument over which is better. However, I can tell you that citing an AOL list that admittedly "is based on the results of a Harris Poll that asked 2,413 U.S. adults to name their favorite books" doesn't lend much credence to your argument. The Da Vinci Code? There's one that I have read, and I can tell you that it wouldn't be on a top 1,000 list of literary classics, let alone a top 10. Just because something is popular does not mean it's a classic (the general public often has poor or simplistic taste).

Something being poorly written may not be the sole criterion for whether it's a classic. If the story is really that good, it may be able to overcome less-than-stellar writing. The converse is also true. I've heard accounts that Finnegans Wake is absolutely brilliant. However, its so utterly incomprehensible to most even very well educated people (I think I got about 7 pages in before giving up) that it doesn't pass muster as a classic.

In short, all I'm saying is that there are plenty of reasons why certain pieces of literature could be considered classics, not just the quality of the writing. I'll briefly add that as tenable of a position as you may have about Potter being a classic, you'll find that many are reluctant to admit it as a classic due to its age. I suppose that's just snobbery or pretentiousness of the academicians (so you may well be right, but many might not admit it). :shrug:


I've got to agree with you. I'm not trying to step on anyone's toes but I am in no way interested in Harry Potterland (or whatever it's called).

Neither are my parents and their friends, neither is my sister and her husband (and his family), neither are any of my friends who went to see Harry Potter at 12 am in the theatre.

I told 7 pr 8 people about the new land and all the money Universal was putting into it; how great the rides are supposed to be.... (anticipating their excitement) and their responses all we're "Oh? Really? That's Cool." It was in a humoring tone. Of the several times I mentioned it, not one had a follow-up question or seemed interested.

I don't think Harry Potter will fall on it's face. I know there are people in other parts of the country that are anticipating the opening... But I don't know anyone who will be visiting UO on account of it... I also think the people on this site are an inaccurate sample of the general public and will generally be more likely to visit than Joe Sixpack.

From a business standpoint, anecdotal accounts like these also don't make a big difference to Disney. 98% of the population may shorten their time at WDW and go to Universal on account of HP, but that 2% that will is enough cause for concern as the short term affect it will have on profits (I'm not suggesting this will be the actual number, I think it will be higher, but for argument sake, let's assume it is). Even losing some business to Universal on account of Potter is losing too much. Interestingly, if HP only brings 2% of Disney's business to Universal, it might be cause for concern for Universal itself--in that the return on investment won't be high enough on HP. That would be a long-term gain for Disney, but in today's short-sighted corporate world, I think the negative short-term impact, however slight (or large), has Disney concerned to some degree.
 

DocMcHulk

Well-Known Member
All that space and only one E-ticket and relocated dumbo ride. The rest is just unappealing to me.
If you look at the overall space, the Barnstormer area could easily be cleared out at a lated date and replaced with another e-ticket... espcially if they took out the speedway and used some of that land. Maybe not in the next 10 years, but down the line.

Remember, there are a lot of other plans in the works for the Magic Kingdom... specifically Tomorrowland and Adventureland. So, another e-ticket in Fantisyland may not be needed right now.
 

EPCOT Explorer

New Member
A literature debate!? On WDWMagic!? I wish I had time to stick around today...:lol:


Here, my two cents...


Steinbeck. Best Author ever.


*runs away*:lol::lookaroun
 

DocMcHulk

Well-Known Member
I have very good conceptual skills. What can I say?
By the way, I think I know where and what will be the phase 2 E-ticket for this project but I can't say any more than that. There is room for a thrill E ticket and a toontown should they ever be so inclined. Think Adventureland pre-PotC. That is all I'm saying. :zipit:
As someone who is not a DisneyWorld historian, can someone elaborate on what this means? How as Adventureland different before PotC?
 

WDWFigment

Well-Known Member
A literature debate!? On WDWMagic!? I wish I had time to stick around today...:lol:


Here, my two cents...


Steinbeck. Best Author ever.


*runs away*:lol::lookaroun

I, too, love Steinbeck. He's not my favorite, but likely near the top. Aside from his more publicly revered works, I really enjoyed The Winter of Our Discontent.
 

JustInTime

Well-Known Member
Having read neither the Wizard of Oz nor any of the Potter series, I won't weigh into the substantive argument over which is better. However, I can tell you that citing an AOL list that admittedly "is based on the results of a Harris Poll that asked 2,413 U.S. adults to name their favorite books" doesn't lend much credence to your argument. The Da Vinci Code? There's one that I have read, and I can tell you that it wouldn't be on a top 1,000 list of literary classics, let alone a top 10. Just because something is popular does not mean it's a classic (the general public often has poor or simplistic taste).

Something being poorly written may not be the sole criterion for whether it's a classic. If the story is really that good, it may be able to overcome less-than-stellar writing. The converse is also true. I've heard accounts that Finnegans Wake is absolutely brilliant. However, its so utterly incomprehensible to most even very well educated people (I think I got about 7 pages in before giving up) that it doesn't pass muster as a classic.

In short, all I'm saying is that there are plenty of reasons why certain pieces of literature could be considered classics, not just the quality of the writing. I'll briefly add that as tenable of a position as you may have about Potter being a classic, you'll find that many are reluctant to admit it as a classic due to its age. I suppose that's just snobbery or pretentiousness of the academicians (so you may well be right, but many might not admit it). :shrug:

Ok, I am not saying that the article is bible for must read books, I just read it the day before and it is recent. I'm sure I can find plenty more where that came from but alas, I am not going to.

The way you close that was what I was trying to say, but couldn't find the words. lol. Thanks.

p.s. is it not the general public that decides what stands the tests of time? Buying power?!
 

tomman710

Well-Known Member
I do hope you will change your mind after Potter opens. The entire land is shaping up to be nothing short of spectacular! Everything from the toy store to the interactive elements throughout the land will be amazing. Hogwarts and the ride inside will be worth the price of admission alone. This may be one land that universal out Disneys Disney.

Oh for sure I think we will go check it out at some point, we are in FL too much to not at least stop by and see what's going on there, however I am not the target demo so I am sure it won't appeal to me as much ... I tried reading the first HP book but got bored quickly BUT I did like the first movie alot and the third movie even more, the rest of them felt repetitive and stale I didn't even see the last one or the one currently in theaters, just got old to me.

That being said I think a land based around it could be cool but honestly you are the first person that has alot of positive to say about it.

Granted, I don't go to Universal boards and the only Uni employee I know is my wife's cousin who is probably more upset about his lackluster pay and has no real insider knowledge, but he says its not going to be a good attraction in the land and the higher ups are "concerned" about it ... I highly doubt what he says BUT I don't think it's going to be anything revolutionary. I thought Spider-Man was awesome and is the best thing at Uni but I never thought it was as revolutionary as people thought.

Anyway, you see to know more about the HP attraction than anything I have heard I would love to hear another perspective on it, especially someone on the inside. However, I am probably going to be more amped up about this Fantasyland and Mermaid ride more than HP.

Just me though.
 

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