The General's Call to Arms: Epcot's future -- SAVE THE EARTH!

[ToTBellHop]

In that case, I am exteremly disturbed.

We already have the thrill ride. If a clone (albeit a good one) will ruin Epcot, Walt help us.

You had to expect all along that it would be very high energy in front of this attraction. I don't know of any peaceful, calm thrill rides...anywhere. The basement of the Land will be crowded with people. That is the reason all the tables are leaving--with the massive volume of people that Soarin' will bring, it would be downright dangerous having all those tables in The Land. You can enjoy an ice cream down there as much as you can enjoy one in front of the Tower of Terror. My experience, of late, in The Land, has been that it is not peaceful in the basement. There are a lot of people in line for Living with the Land and a lot of people eating, all loud, and it is extremely chaotic trying to manuever down there. If anything, the removal of those tables will make it more organized down there.

 

[General Grizz]

Of course... ruin the LAST peaceful area for the cloned ride. It all makes sense. :brick:

I see a nice area next to Imagination. Queue it up there.

 

[ToTBellHop]

Electric Soarin
Energetic Soarin
Peaceful Soarin

It depends on when you go...but California adventure also gets smaller crowds than Epcot.

 

[General Grizz]

My experience, of late, in The Land, has been that it is not peaceful in the basement. There are a lot of people in line for Living with the Land and a lot of people eating, all loud, and it is extremely chaotic trying to manuever down there.

The only thing chaotic is finding a table on a crowded day.

Living with the Land usually doesn't affect the overall atmosphere of the lower level; the area music still adds a calm atmosphere - along with the fountains, the ballons, and the overall color scheme - and it's still a place to cool off from the hustle and bustle - if on a bench in a corner, or a stroll around. The Land remains one of the last peaceful areas.

I was talking to a few people last night, and it hit them that they may be losing this vital serenity, something a growing Epcot really needs.

 

[ClemsonTigger]

Not necessarily

"Perhaps now it makes sense why the posters have said "We are cleared for take-off" and shows a runway with a hang glider in the background since the project was announced? That slogan applies to airplanes, not hang gliders. It's like a tour...you get in a plane and then jump out in your hang glider and soar over California" by ISTCNavigator57

The lines you are quoting are part of the "preshow" where instructions are given as if we are boarding a commercial aircraft. The announcer has a captains uniform on. Additionally when you are boarding the gliders, the area has floor lights like a landing strip and announcements are similar to ones at an airport...I'm sure those elements will be the same.

"You had to expect all along that it would be very high energy in front of this attraction. I don't know of any peaceful, calm thrill rides...anywhere." by ISTCNavigator57

It sounds strange but that is exactly what this is! It can be called an "E" ticket, it is exciting, but also quiet and relaxing. Can't compare it to anything we have now. So with that said, there is the opportunity to integrate this into a proper land theme.

 

[ClemsonTigger]

More serenity

Grizz' concerns about serenity are valid

"and it's still a place to cool off from the hustle and bustle - if on a bench in a corner, or a stroll around. The Land remains one of the last peaceful areas.

I was talking to a few people last night, and it hit them that they may be losing this vital serenity, something a growing Epcot really needs." by Gen. Grizz

(see, I put your quote in Land green), and I like that as well, but we always have Odessy and all the Innoventions (or Communicore) buildings that are all but empty! :animwink: :veryconfu .

Now that you have two crusades, we're not going to dilute our forces and energy are we?

 

[General Grizz]

we always have Odessy and all the Innoventions (or Communicore) buildings that are all but empty! :animwink: :veryconfu

However, Innoventions is a half-dead facility and Odyssey is simply a building in horrible quality.

The Land is unique. First of all, it is indoor. And when comparing it to the others you mentioned, it's actually alive - vibrant - and it mimicks nature herself.

The atmosphere there is unique, and although popular and quiet, it still fits the family in to take a big whiff of that fresh air every time the automatic doors open and we're thrust into pavilion.

- and no, I have no idea who that is. :lol:

 

[ClemsonTigger]

Of course your're right

Grizz, I was being tongue and cheek. I wouldn't even try to compare dead or wasted space to a serene park setting and a "living interior". Just pokin' fun at one of my pet peeves...the unused quality area that we should be reworking rather than active sites.

"calm atmosphere - along with the fountains, the ballons, and the overall color scheme" Gen Grizz

By the way Grizz, what are ballons? I thought I knew The Land well, but I must have missed something. Maybe they're behind the balloons? :lol:

 

[General Grizz]

Grizz, I was being tongue and cheek. I wouldn't even try to compare dead or wasted space to a serene park setting and a "living interior". Just pokin' fun at one of my pet peeves...the unused quality area that we should be reworking rather than active sites.

Oh, I could tell. But I'm sure there may have been a few prowlers who may have been caught into your alternate examples.

Also . . . after thinking about it more, the food shows did fit in the Land; Kraft and Nestle sponsor it, also, because it is (essentially) a FOOD pavilion (which goes hand in hand with its analysis of Symbiosis).

 

[ClemsonTigger]

Fresh

Plus, where else in Disney can you eat something that was just grown out back?

 

[ToTBellHop]

Any attraction about nutrition belongs in Wonders of Life. If they are telling a person what to eat to lower his or her cholesterol, that applies to biology and the Wonders of Life. And have you ever ridden Soarin' Over California? Have you ever stood in front of ANY E-Ticket thrill rides? Calm and relaxing is not a descriptor. You are lucky if you can even hear the area music.

I hate to be blunt, but from Disney's perspective, peacefulness doesn't make as much money as high energy. Most guests used to characterize Epcot as downright boring, and that is why its attendance numbers were down near that of a much younger MGM. Now, they add more big thrill rides like Mission: SPACE and attendance is up significantly. Anyone would be stupid not to build on what they have been creating. It's not even being stingy, it's using your brain. Disney wants its parks to be popular, and Soarin' will make Epcot more popular.

 

[ToTBellHop]

Been thinking...if they need to make a new food location, why not (and this is just an idea) convert the coffee shop in Innoventions West into a nice café (kinda the Starring Rolls treatment)? Think about it--Innoventions Internet Café, 15 minutes of internet surfing with each meal. It would be cosmopolitan and somewhat futuristic, relating to both Future World and World Showcase.

 

[ogryn]

I like sitting around the edge of the fountain in The Land, but it is *very* 80's! As long as BBQ Chicken Burgers become available elsewhere I think I could live with loosing the Food Fair.

How does the Lion King show fit in with the new theme of the land (not that I can remember the film very much! )?

 

[ToTBellHop]

I like sitting around the edge of the fountain in The Land, but it is *very* 80's! As long as BBQ Chicken Burgers become available elsewhere I think I could live with loosing the Food Fair.

How does the Lion King show fit in with the new theme of the land (not that I can remember the film very much! )?

Timon and Pumbaa are opening a new Resort that we could assume our new travel agency would service, but we learn lessons about the Land along the way.

 

[General Grizz]

Are we so sure?

Now, they add more big thrill rides like Mission: SPACE and attendance is up significantly. Anyone would be stupid not to build on what they have been creating. It's not even being stingy, it's using your brain. Disney wants its parks to be popular, and Soarin' will make Epcot more popular.

Of course thrills bring up attendance significantly. Soarin' will add this. However, is Disney willing to chip away at its meaning, its purpose, and it's guest courtesy just go make more money?

It's not as though the Land is a ghost town that needs to be reworked. If you think about it, leaving the Wonders of Life closed 3/4 year is pretty "stupid." Meanwhile, the Land remains fresh and new upon each visit.

And this isn't saying that Soarin' SHOULDN'T be put in the Land. It's saying that Soarin' needs to mold itself - That Disney needs to show that it CARES about the essence of attractions without blindly putting EPCOT'S first clone down where it chooses. With dropping California on the Land, it's similar to making a new World Showcase pavilion: Memphis.

Disney should really have considered using the space between Imagination and Soarin', as well as part of the area behind Canada - perhaps to even expand on the theme of air, or provide more free space for the Soarin' queue. This would be the Wonders of Life (classic) setup: peaceful atmosphere, and the thrill keeps to itself.

If Soarin' came in the pavilion in an opening way, connecting itself to the roots of the pavilion, there would be no major losses (especially if the queue ideas were put in place). However, a CLONE whose theme does NOT fit into the pavilion, ruining the atmosphere of the Land, taking away the Food Fair - the fountain - the spirit? That's uncalled for.

Epcot will NOT remain stagnant if its alterations are made in spirit. To see them KILL the spirit based on alterations, why, it makes some of us dislike the incoming attraction.

As for Circle of Life ("An Environmental Fable"), Timon and Pumbaa, like Navigator said, are trying to open up a resort, but Simba shows the dangers of what is going on with intervention of humans/construction. Most of the unanimated footage comes from the Land's original Harvest Theatre film, "Symbiosis."

 

[ToTBellHop]

We are talking about the same company, aren't we? Would Disney change the theme of a pavillion to create a new story that manages to unify all of the attractions in the pavillion while increasing the popularity of the pavillion and raising revenue? You betcha. You have to realize that 99% of Epcot guests don't care about "classic" Epcot or learning. They take a vacation to Disney World to get away from the stress of school and their jobs, and they just want to have a great time, which rides like Soarin' offer. At least in my view, a vacation to Disney World is far too expensive to sit around in peaceful areas (I know all you locals may feel differently, but most guests are on vacation).

 

[General Grizz]

We are talking about the same company, aren't we? Would Disney change the theme of a pavillion to create a new story that manages to unify all of the attractions in the pavillion while increasing the popularity of the pavillion and raising revenue? You betcha. You have to realize that 99% of Epcot guests don't care about "classic" Epcot or learning. They take a vacation to Disney World to get away from the stress of school and their jobs, and they just want to have a great time, which rides like Soarin' offer. At least in my view, a vacation to Disney World is far too expensive to sit around in peaceful areas (I know all you locals may feel differently, but most guests are on vacation).

What do you think made Epcot the "best value" in Consumer Reports? Test Track?

And I don't know if we're talking about the same Disney. This is the Disney that chopped Imagination down to senses? Took the essence of motion and called it a car test?

And I strongly argue your "99%" is way off. We're not talking about classic Epcot. We're talking about what Epcot IS. On one level, the Land's nature theme needs to be complemented by the natural atmosphere. On the level of your figure of "average guest," the Land is a place to take a break from Test Track and Mission Space. A place - indoor, well-themed, and truly Disneyesque - just to cool down. There needs to be a balance - to not have one is detrimental and dangerous to the park.

And I agree. Soarin' will offer that fun. But the argument isn't "Should Soarin' come?" The argument is: fit it in, and care about the attraction.

It's only the Disney thing to do. At least the Disney most of us know and love.

 

[ToTBellHop]

My point is 99% of people will think these changes are fine and love Epcot even more for the addition of Test Track. And yes, the thrill rides are what is increasing attendance and making more people come to Epcot. If you want evidence, look at the increase in attendance since Mission: SPACE opened. Kids don't say, "mom, let's go to Epcot today to ride that really kewl Energy ride!" They say "let's go ride Mission: SPACE! That looks kewl!"

 

[General Grizz]

My point is 99% of people will think these changes are fine and love Epcot even more for the addition of Test Track. And yes, the thrill rides are what is increasing attendance and making more people come to Epcot. If you want evidence, look at the increase in attendance since Mission: SPACE opened. Kids don't say, "mom, let's go to Epcot today to ride that really kewl Energy ride!" They say "let's go ride Mission: SPACE! That looks kewl!"

Of course, but the Consumer Reports was done based on a poll of guests. . . and I'll assure you that their "value" had nothing to do with thrills. After all, America's other "thrill" parks made it far, far below on the list. . .

Results-- the worst park? Disney's California Adventure (home to Soarin').

 

[KevinPage]

CAN WE STOP CALING IT A THRILL RIDE!!!!!! It's an E ticket and it's a great ride, but that doesn't mean it is a thrill ride.

Is Haunted Mansion or PoTC a thrill ride? NO