The General's Call to Arms: Epcot's future -- SAVE THE EARTH!

[ogryn]

Hey Grizz, great read. You should E-Mail it to Jim Hill, it may get him to write a piece about it, which the upper management may read. Just a thought!

 

[SirNim]

My thoughts exactly...

The focus of the pavilion must be retained. That's the core. It has worked for 20+ years now... It can be updated, but it must not be altered on a whim to correspond with a cloned attraction (once again, albeit the wonderfully-executed Soarin')...

And in due time (DUE time), I would love to see the actual film change to include scenery from America's Heartland and other agricultural and symbiotic scenery from all around America, and quite frankly, the world.

 

[tigsmom]

You know, Grizz, I never really gave it much thought. You really put things in perspective. I used to love EPCOT, but so many of the "classics" have been changed or removed that I hardly spend any time there.

 

[Shaman]

Its sad...we wouldn't even be having this discussion if they just would have made an "Air" pavilion...but hey instead they connect it to the land...seemed like a strange discision then...but Grizz makes excellent points and observations....the question is how will Living with the Land be affected? Is it possible for The Land pavilion to be expanded to the right, next to The Living Seas....where "Air" or even weather be explored? Is it still even possible to Soarin' to become its own pavilion...

Something to think about:

What if they make The Land Pavilion look like an airport concourse? I mean it does kinda already look like that...replace the carpet, change the colors...you can even leave the food stations, but again how would Living with the Land fit in (I mean anything is possible, if the money and the minds are there)....how would you save the story of the current "land"....one thing for sure is...I see The Land become colder...losing some of its charm...perhaps the rumored gardens, that are too replace Innoventions, have been thought up to add the quiet that has been taken out of Epcot....

Who knows what will happen...interesting to point out...the Land will have a boat ride, and a "flying" ride....

*sigh*

 

[General Grizz]

Almost Time to Take Arms

I do not know the exact details. This is what 2 reliable sources on WDWMagic have said. (I have yet to get response from my sources):

Hmmm...from what I know about Soarin', more traditional Epcoters will not be very appreciative of the changes over at the Land. It actually sounded quite strange when I first heard it, but it could work. I just originally figured they would modify Soarin' to make it fit in with The Land, not modify the entire Land pavillion to work well with Soarin'. The bottom floor of The Land will certainly look a lot different a year from now, but the entire building will have a story now. They are definitely changes some people will love and some won't. Then again, some people love flying and some don't. I like flying, so I will like the changes, most likely.

- ISTCNavigator57

My thoughts exactly.
My initial reaction was, "Say What?!?"

Now, I'm kinda excited about it.

Grizz, on the other hand, should be getting antsy.

- Lee

Soarin' is a part of the Land, not a separate pavillion. And it will have very strong theming in the queue and post-show area/gift shop, but, again...some people will love it and some won't. The main show room, however, is not heavily themed. Just a gigantic screen and the enormous ride mechanisms. Everything else is painted black, but it works. You are completely surrounded by screen during the ride--it brings a new meaning to "emersive simulator".

- ISTCNavigator57

Not aviation...Soarin' is themed to aviation. But the new theme of the land will include aviation...and Living with the Land...as for being crowded, there will be several dramatic changes inside the Land to deal with the crowds...Expect The Land to close around January 1-April 1 for these and the theming changes. By the way, the only thing changing on Living with the Land is the queue and loading area, which is fine by me--it's rather bland. The current ride featuring high tech agriculture, aquaculture, and mariculture will remain. Honestly, I do think the Land has needed changes for awhile--it has a rather jumbled theme, and this new theming will help to unify the pavillion better. That being said...all you traditional Epcoters...prepare yourselves now...so you heads don't go Soarin' when you hear the changes.

- ISTCNavigator57

1. From what I hear, you won't be seeing too many tables down there.

2. Don't look for much theme on the exterior of the Soarin show building.

- Lee

Again, this is where it comes from, but these two are *very* reliable people on Walt Disney World Magic. And just as to not go all-out, I have called each point a "rumor."

Still, it seems probable (and "dangerous"), so the letter will be shortened and forwarded to the "proper authorities."

Thanks for your support, and I would like to hear some more responses if you have any additional/similar/different thoughts!

I may try to do something with this (i.e. contact Disney), and if anyone would like to write them a letter, please PM me or just forward them your own thoughts.

Thank you!

- The General

 

[NemoRocks78]

Excellent post Grizz! All of it is 100% true. I don't want to lose The Land to Soarin' either. It's a fun ride, but after a while I can see many people getting tired of it, because I sure did. I for one still can't believe that Epcot is getting its first clone. You'd think all of the attractions would be original anymore as they always have been.

Why would they want to get rid of the Sunshine Season Food Fair anyways? I think it would bring in more money than a gift shop would. :animwink:

You should send it over to Save Disney.

 

[speck76]

Ok, I am at work, so I did not yet have time to read the whole thing...but I will.

What did Food Rocks have to do with "The Land"...the show was about nutrition...wouldn't the show have been better off in the WoL pavillion. Now I know that the "Living with the Land" tour visits greenhouses that are growing food, but other than that, why were we learning about a balanced diet in "The Land"

I am not too sad about the potential loss of the food court. Epcot has two closed food areas (The Odyssy and at Innoventions West) and although this was a nice area to eat, it was just a food court. I would love to see this area replaced with some interactive exhibits....as lond as it is not an empty room...I am ok.

And a side note...Nestle likes to spend money. They once owned of of my hotels, and I always here about the "fat and happy days" when Nestle was the owner.

 

[careship]

Here are my thoughts....

I don't mind them bringing us Soarin' even though I know my younger son and hubby will never ride it, they get motion sick from things like that. Originally I thought they would make it part of the World Showcase or something. Then they take my Food Rocks away even though I like Food Rocks, I was still mad about Kitchen Kabaret. Now they decide to put Soarin' there? OK fine whatever I'll cope I guess. But now I have issues.....Don't touch Sunshine Food Fair!!!! I have never passed up eating there and I don't eat in the parks really. The strawberry shortcake I drool over weeks before we go there. It's a great place to get some decent food like potatoes etc. I really love to sit there by the fountain and just relax. It is one of my favorite places in all of Disney to sit and relax and eat and just have family time without the hustle and bustle.

Grizz....you are very eloquent and you provoke our thoughts as well...thanks for that!!!

 

[ClemsonTigger]

Aviation Theme or not?

I hope that we are being premature in assuming an aviation them for the queue area. while the "ride" is a "clone" the DCL theme really has nothing to do with the ride, but with DCL.

The ride is "flying" in a hang glider, but it is not about aviation as World of Motion was about transportation or Spaceship Earth about communication. The ride is simply a tour of the diverse landscape of California using the "device" of a hang glider for presentation.

The hanger and preshow celebrate California's role as the home of the development of modern aviation. From most of the early pilots to supersonic flight to "Top Gun" school, all California based. This directly ties into the theme of DCA.

This preshow would not have the same relevence in Orlando and I am hoping the Imagineers can segue using Land themes instead. It would work just as well. So get on it Grizz and make sure they do it right.

 

[BeachClubVillas]

Eisner is basically taking away the Epcot we all knew and loved. Horizons is gone, World of Motion is gone, Wonders of Life is as good as gone, and now he's trying to take away the Land!!


He WILL get some serious hate letters if he takes out that Sunshine Season Food Fair. And most of it will be from me. :fork:

 

[cloudboy]

See, now I find that Soarin' could fit with the land pavilion. At least the idea. I mean, land encompasses a whole bunch of stuff - if anything I think it's current incarnation is a little too much about farming. I think that Soarin would be able to branch it out into more of geography and the planet itself. Of course this also has the problem of covering too much.

They would need to change the film, but according to rumors that is already planned.

What if the food court was moved into part of the now vacant core buildings? It would make to food court more centralized, but you would still have all the options there. That would then leave you with more room for exhibits in the Land pavilion.

I know that Disney supposedly oes not listen to ideas presented by any outsiders. But I also know that any company would much rather have the guests tell them what they want, instead of gambling huge money on hunches. Perhaps there is some way fans can set up some kind of dialogue with the company over the changes coming to Epcot.

 

[MagicalMonorail]

Great post Grizz! You brought up a lot of good points. Does Roy over at SaveDisney know about all this? That could be some more fresh fuel against Eisner.

Is there anything we can do now to stop this Land destruction from happeninig? Give us a phone number or adresses and we'll start petitioning.

 

[careship]

Another thought

Someone posted a link to a new Disney Movie can't remember the exact name but it's like America's HeartLand or something.....ANYWAYS.....I would love to somehow see something like that developed for Soarin' rather then using California. granted they could start it with California and then replace it later with something such as that because then it would still fit nicely into the land themeing.

 

[Number_6]

Epcot is still my favorite park after all these years, but I have to say, it feels too different from how it did when I was growing up. Before going to Disney World in August of last year, I hadn't been there in 10 or 12 years. I missed that a bunch of things had close when I was planning the trip at first and then realized from reading through some of the informational books that Horizons and World of Motion were gone. That bugged me a bit and then I realized that Communicore was no longer what it had been and it had been turned into Innoventions. Well, I hadn't seen Innoventions yet, so I couldn't get mad about at first, but now that I have been there I have to say that I am a bit annoyed about the loss of Communicore, but I was willing to deal. Then WoL gets seasonal opening, which meant that the time I would be most likely to travel there, it would be closed and my kids wouldn't be able to see it. Now I'll be honest, I probably haven't been to the Land pavillion in about 15 years. When I was younger, it really wasn't something that interested me as much as the rest of the park. But I think that next week when I am down there on my own that I will likely do some things that I haven't done or seen in awhile since I won't have my own 4 and 7 year olds standing there going "We're bored! Can we do something else?" It seems a shame now that I didn't go back to The Land sooner. Because it's now just one more thing that is going to be altered. As for Soarin', I think it's cool that they are bringing it from DCA, but I think before construction began, they should have considered the idea of making a movie to fit the park it is coming to. Heck, even a "Cali to Florida" movie would have been cool, because you would have passed over things like the Grand Canyon, pass over America's Heartland, the Mississippi River and a bunch of other things. It could have been tied into the idea of bringing an attraction from California over to Florida and had film starting in DCA and ending with you arriving at Epcot with you departing the show area afterwards and feeling like you just took a cross country journey. Something like that would have been kinda cool, I think, and maybe in the future they would consider something like that, but to possibly alter the theme of The Land just to fit in with something that didn't really have anything to do with it in the first place seems wrong.

 

[cloudboy]

I just realized I was missing a whole big part of this thread.

Is it going to be aviation themed, or just more about seeing the land (as from a geography standpoint)? Somehow Sorain' just doesn't seem to fit in with aviation. It DOES fit in with a more goegraphical sense of land. Personally I wouldn't mind it if it was more about that instead of farming. In fact, I think there could be a lot of interesting stuff you could do - perhaps something based on geology. That whole core could be like walking through a geological excavation, and you osee the diifferent layers of the earth and the fossils in them. It could also cover things such as the different climatic and ecological zones. Wern't they rumored many, many, many years ago to be thinking of a jungle-themed rollercoaster?

How much longer does Nestle have on it's contract? I mean, all the other sponsors have started to pull out - maybe they are not that convinced Nestle is going to stay.

 

[speck76]

How much longer does Nestle have on it's contract? I mean, all the other sponsors have started to pull out - maybe they are not that convinced Nestle is going to stay.

Nestle should be around for a while, they have only been with WDW since 1994, as "The Land" was sponsored by Kraft prior to this. Nestle, much like Kodak, has sponsorships in the parks outside of their pavilion....the same can not be said for many of the sponsors that pulled out.

 

[Scooter]

I say lets give it a chance before we condemn it.

 

[wannab@dis]

I have to say that I think everyone is jumping the gun here. We haven't seen the final incarnation of what appears to be a great attraction.

I understand many of you are nostalgic about the old attractions, but change is necessary to keep the parks fresh and appealing to the masses. I'm all for keeping as many of the old attractions around as possible, but there must be progression and, unfortunately, things have to be replaced.

The Land is a great pavilion, and if done correctly, Soarin' will only make it that much better. I kinda think we're killing off the Food Fair before all the facts are known. It seems to be busy every time we're there and it's a great place to take a break and "spend our money". Most of the time, Disney wants to keep us spending, so I have a feeling that we're a little premature on that call.

 

[lebernadin]

Someone posted a link to a new Disney Movie can't remember the exact name but it's like America's HeartLand or something.....ANYWAYS.....I would love to somehow see something like that developed for Soarin' rather then using California. granted they could start it with California and then replace it later with something such as that because then it would still fit nicely into the land themeing.

Its called American's Heart & Soul.

Its about Americans, not the land itself, although obviously the land is a backdrop in the film. But its no more pertinent to the land pavilion than using "Soarin over California" will be.

Its really just an extended version of the in-park films we're used to from Disney, although when you consider the Fahrenheit911 fiasco, there's an irony that's not lost on some of us.

 

[lebernadin]

Is it going to be aviation themed, or just more about seeing the land (as from a geography standpoint)? Somehow Sorain' just doesn't seem to fit in with aviation. It DOES fit in with a more goegraphical sense of land.

Yes, the same could be said for the films in the world showcase since most of the shots could be used as part of a film on the Soarin screen.

But, if anything, i see this choice of film as dirt cheap/high exposure advertising for California and specifically Disneyland no doubt.

If they wanted to do a film about agriculture, global warming or any of the hundreds of hot topics related to the land then i'd be delighted. But Soarin over California is simply an advertisement for visiting California, as are the films in the world showcase.