The General's Call to Arms: Epcot's future -- SAVE THE EARTH!

[ToTBellHop]

Well, this is just a difference in opinions, but I'm happy. Disney keeps building rides that I love. Lines would suggest I'm not alone. Nor would attendance numbers. I think Disney knows what the most guests like; they have been doing this for 50 years and just about every new attraction they put in is very popular. Journey Into Imagination is about the only one I can think of that isn't.

 

[General Grizz]

Well, this is just a difference in opinions, but I'm happy. Disney keeps building rides that I love. Lines would suggest I'm not alone. Nor would attendance numbers. I think Disney knows what the most guests like; they have been doing this for 50 years and just about every new attraction they put in is very popular. Journey Into Imagination is about the only one I can think of that isn't.

In that case, we must turn JII into a roller coaster. :lookaroun

 

[ToTBellHop]

not for nothing, a roller coaster WOULD be more popular

 

[MKCP 1985]

In that case, we must turn JII into a roller coaster. :lookaroun

Why stop there? Elen's Excellent Adventure in Energy, the world's first solar powered thrill-coaster! :lookaroun

There has to be balance. Gardens and tranquility alone will not generate enough guests satisfied to plunk down a President Grant for a day in the park. Whither Cypress Gardens?

I think we should introduce steroids into the vegetable garden, put a 200 hp outboard on the guided tour boat and see if we can't get the land to listen to US for a change!


(j/k)

 

[MKCP 1985]

. . . and if EPCOT ultimately fails, the whole of WDW will be the poorer for it!

 

[The_CEO]

The average person walking into The Land isn't going to examine every corner of the pavillion like one of us would. They are just visiting and doing it as an attraction standpoint. They see it as something new and exciting. I think all of us on here including me are taking this alittle to hard. I think disney knows what they are doing. They don't just close a ride for no reason. There is SOMETHING that is behind it. Soarin' is coming, will it or will it not effect The Land, ofcourse. Increase in trafic flow, giftshop, what else?

 

[ToTBellHop]

. . . and if EPCOT ultimately fails, the whole of WDW will be the poorer for it!

the melodrama continues...Epcot is in no danger of failing lol. Its attendance is...pardon the pun...SOARIN'! So much complaining...it's just Food Rocks!, food, and a buncha tables...this is not earth-shattering. Let's not be ignorant...there is no shortage of food at WDW...I don't think anyone has ever starved in the parks.

 

[General Grizz]

The average person walking into The Land isn't going to examine every corner of the pavillion like one of us would. They are just visiting and doing it as an attraction standpoint. They see it as something new and exciting. I think all of us on here including me are taking this alittle to hard. I think disney knows what they are doing. They don't just close a ride for no reason. There is SOMETHING that is behind it. Soarin' is coming, will it or will it not effect The Land, ofcourse. Increase in trafic flow, giftshop, what else?

I disagree. Families are searching for a place to take a break, relax, and see some nice area. What will be an effect? Getting rid of the *last* "peaceful, inviting" Future World pavilion. After all, the Land is *extremely* popular!

If this were our maxim, the entire Future World would be a crowded place without a bench in sight.

 

[ToTBellHop]

I disagree. Families are searching for a place to take a break, relax, and see some nice area. What will be an effect? Getting rid of the *last* "peaceful, inviting" Future World pavilion. After all, the Land is *extremely* popular!

If this were our maxim, the entire Future World would be a crowded place without a bench in sight.

When people want their kids to be able to relax because it's 90º out, they usually return to the hotel they are spending hundreds of dollars on for a swim or a nap, not the loud basement of the Land without a table to sit at.

I do not pay $55/day to sit in a bench.

 

[Bill]

Honestly, I don't belive ANY type of simulator will be as popular 5 years after it opens. Even Soarin' will suffer, as amazing as it is, Mission: SPACE has proved to me that any type of simulator doesn't have very good "re-rideability."

Okay, let's take a look at what makes a successful ride. It's not just the thrill. Heck, even a silly game like RollerCoaster Tycoon will tell you that. And Tony Baxter said that. You aim for only the thrill, you're doomed. Simulators do this. They only aim for the thrill. A ONE TIME THRILL. Thank goodness the films can be changed out. But even when you change out a film, it still never has the same punch as when it first opens. Soarin' may get a new film. That's good. That may save it. But my point is, you can't have thrill without re-rideability. Case in point? Indiana Jones Adventure versus, say, Star Tours. Indy is by far more popular. Of course, it is newer. And yes compacity plays a role in this too, but a cheap thrill (even an expensive thrill) is no good without re-rideability. Mission: SPACE will suffer greatly because of this. Something really funny, is that Test Track is still more popular than Mission: SPACE. No matter what you do, unless it's an acutal ride, the simulator won't do it. Now mix the two together and you'll get Spiderman over at Universal.

Something odd about thrill-seekers... they don't come back until you have a new thrill ride... they won't come back to go on the same old rides they've already been on. There is a minority... but you don't seem to see that Thrill Seekers ARE the minority. And Disney can't aim towards them. Disney needs to aim much more in the middle, and balance the thrills with peaceful exhibits. Most people don't want to go to a park to get a headache all day. Trust me.

 

[The_CEO]

I disagree. Families are searching for a place to take a break, relax, and see some nice area. What will be an effect? Getting rid of the *last* "peaceful, inviting" Future World pavilion. After all, the Land is *extremely* popular!

If this were our maxim, the entire Future World would be a crowded place without a bench in sight.

Well when you put it that way, I agree with you there. Why? I ALWAYS eat lunch in the land. A gentle hum and the music softly plays on the speakers. I enjoy eating lunch in a quiet environment. But did Food Rocks disturb me when it was open? Nope. Why would Soarin'? The entrance is through the land right? Increase traffic, but I don't think it will effect its complete atmosphere.

 

[General Grizz]

Well when you put it that way, I agree with you there. Why? I ALWAYS eat lunch in the land. A gentle hum and the music softly plays on the speakers. I enjoy eating lunch in a quiet environment. But did Food Rocks disturb me when it was open? Nope. Why would Soarin'? The entrance is through the land right? Increase traffic, but I don't think it will effect its complete atmosphere.

I wish, CEO. The plans are to get rid of the entire restaurant and change the atmosphere.

 

[ToTBellHop]

Bill, you fail to mention that Test Track's hourly capacity is about half that of Mission: SPACE. That is why it has absurdly long waits. 80% of Test Trackers are Fastpassers. 70% of trainees are.

 

[Bill]

Even so, Mission: SPACE is highly over-rated. It will die out quickly. Any simulator will. It's the nature of the beast.

 

[The_CEO]

I wish, CEO. The plans are to get rid of the entire restaurant and change the atmosphere.

WHAT?!?! Then where will I go to eat lunch... I don't want to see a Lunching Pad put into where the networked variety choices they have now.....


Bill - You have a point, Spidey does pull alot of strings and makes it re-rideable. Soarin' is unique and has that effect with me. So I'll ride hundreds of times and not get bored.

 

[General Grizz]

Even so, Mission: SPACE is highly over-rated. It will die out quickly. Any simulator will. It's the nature of the beast.

Folks - now that I think about it, Bill has an excellent point.

Mission Space, like any attraction that *relies* on a thrill factor, will only survive by technology. Just like Body Wars died out, Mission Space will in time.

However, Wonders of Life has an advantage: structure and quality. The pavilion still has high guests (and can still have higher if it is "resurrected" and rethemed!) because of its diversity: SERENITY, CREATIVITY, QUALITY. . . and, an *ADDITION* to this: Thrill.

But the thrill factor is only complementary to the others. Yet! this brought GREAT attendance to Epcot, and the attraction became heavily popular.

Likewise, if Mission Space was part of the space pavilion, we could have a great, long-term attraction. Unfortunately, I can't see this attraction ever being dubbed a "Disney classic," as it relies solely on shorter-term popularity.

 

[Bill]

Bingo CEO, you hit the nail on the head. Since I haven't had the pleasure to ride Soarin' yet, I won't take a stand. But once you've done Mission: SPACE, you've done it. Not something I'd go back to Epcot for.

 

[ToTBellHop]

lol! That is hilarious, Bill. Mission: SPACE will not die out. It is a simulated space flight that will never be duplicated anywhere. Motion simulators like Star Tours are at Paramount theme parks and some local mall arcades. That is why their wow factor has died down after 15 years. If you ask any Imagineers if Mission: SPACE will "die down", they will laugh at you. They did not spend over $100,000,000 on a ride that will lose popularity in 5 years. Space travel has excited humans for hundreds of years.

 

[General Grizz]

WHAT?!?! Then where will I go to eat lunch... I don't want to see a Lunching Pad put into where the networked variety choices they have now.....

Disney is working on other areas to set up food (I'd imagine), but I can assure you that nothing will compare to the Land (especially considering atmosphere and SUCCESSFUL set-up). After all, part of the Land *stands* for food!

 

[MKCP 1985]

the melodrama continues...Epcot is in no danger of failing lol. Its attendance is...pardon the pun...SOARIN'!

Nice pun. (but you miss my point. I think I am actually kind of on your side here.)

As the original Future World attractions become outdated, and make no mistake, they have in the past become outdated. Even now, SSE is in a world of trouble with first time riders and the whole "let's see if it can be made into a roller coaster" talk was borne from the notion that it is broke and needs a fix. Ditto Living Seas and Energy. Hello Nemo and . . . Ellen?

As people bypass the obsolete, if new attractions are NOT introduced and the park is left with foreign country pavilions and restaurants, and relaxing gardens, that alone will not sustain the park over the long haul. Hence the reference to Cypress Gardens. Add Marineland to that, if you'd like. In order to boost the attendance and keep the doors open, the Mission:Space and the Soarin' type attractions are needed.

Melodrama? Not really.