The General's Call to Arms: Epcot's future -- SAVE THE EARTH!

[cloudboy]

Well, for at least 2005, I can see it simply because it is Disneylands "gift" to Epcot. After that, then I think it is time for new shows. That format, however, really is nothing more than an Omnimax Film. There are already a lot of them out there in that format, and it doesn't take that very long to make a new one. I am sure they will be showing more than that one film, and I could even conceivably see them rotating films, like a movie theater.

I would be a little worried that it is too easy to make something dedicated to america more than to land itself. I would rather see things like flights over the Andes and Himalayas than another travel video.

What I don't understand is that this sounds like such a big cost for something that is essentially a movie and I don't think is oing to have that much staying power.

 

[General Grizz]

Responses & ABOUT THE LAND

I say lets give it a chance before we condemn it.

Scooter -- in that case, we accept what happens, and then condemn it afterwards and have no power?

When it's done, it's done. We're at the part where we can put the pressure on and add some influence from Epcot's guests.

Well, for at least 2005, I can see it simply because it is Disneylands "gift" to Epcot. After that, then I think it is time for new shows.

I agree, cloudboy. That was my original thought, until I heard the strong rumors that the story of the Land may be reconstructed to an aviation/air theme.

However, after the bottom floor is rethemed, why would they then change the film? This leads me to think they won't have a reason to change the film because of the "great success" of DCA and the then-already changed pavilion.

I understand many of you are nostalgic about the old attractions, but change is necessary to keep the parks fresh and appealing to the masses. I'm all for keeping as many of the old attractions around as possible, but there must be progression and, unfortunately, things have to be replaced.

Actually, wannab nostalgia has little to do with this. Rather, these concerns are more about what is at Epcot - its foundations, its themes, and one of the last remaining peaceful areas that must be preserved.

I encourage the Land to change - to blossom - but not to deter from what it actually is. The pavilion is not old - it is fresh, alive, vibrant. In fact, I am not even concerned of the attractions (i.e. Food Rocks) as the overall nature of the pavilion. So the LAND has absolutely no reason to be replaced.

There is an easy way we all could be happy - to actually have things right - and to mix this thrilling, exciting attraction in tune to the home it will be residing in for many, many years.

Finale, the Kitchen Kabaret/Food Rocks theatre was based off of agriculture and nutrition - a byproduct of symbiosis. I agree that it would fit more in Wonders of Life, but there isn't much of this pavilion left.

And now, some QUOTES!!!

The Land - presented by [Nestle] - is the largest and most complex of the Future World pavilions. Its 5 acres offers guests a variety of experiences: the feature boat cruise which highlights the dependent association between man and nature; the Harvest Theatre offering film about nature's artistry; [Food Rocks], a humorous Audio-Animatronics production about nutrition; the Good Turn Restaurant, a revolving dining experience of "natural" menu; and the [Sunshine Season Food Fair], which provides an interesting selection of food which is "good" for you.

Wouldn't it be nice if Soarin' could be molded after this formula and showcase, for example, how man has interacted with his earth? Think Living with the Land ecosystems.

The members of the team that put [The Land] together get excited when they talk about it. The story of the land and its potential partnership with man comes closest to the philosophy, purpose, and image of Epcot, according to the designers of the project. It's a story you can see, and touch, and feal, and even eat!

More to come, sit tight.

 

[careship]

Its called American's Heart & Soul.

Its about Americans, not the land itself, although obviously the land is a backdrop in the film. But its no more pertinent to the land pavilion than using "Soarin over California" will be.

Its really just an extended version of the in-park films we're used to from Disney, although when you consider the Fahrenheit911 fiasco, there's an irony that's not lost on some of us.

I understand that....I stated myself a little wrong...not exactly though...what I meant was if you see some of the breathtaking things from the trailer you could see how it could be used in part. It was just an opinion. I would never condemn the ride anyways, I am glad to see something new. I just don't wnt the land's vision to be lost.

As for an aviation theme...the only way I could except it in Futureworld, would be a new part to EPCOT and I would love to see it as the future of aviation. And a ride corresponding to that particular theme. The people's future in their own hover vehicles etc. That would fit the EPCOT vision, at least the original.

 

[General Grizz]

And a ride corresponding to that particular theme. The people's future in their own hover vehicles etc. That would fit the EPCOT vision, at least the original.

Wouldn't it be great if the Motion pavilion were still broad based? Then we *could* have themes like this.

We don't want to see the same thing happening at the Land.

 

[garyhoov]

I guess I'm in the minority on this, but I think these attractions are like my underwear . . . every ten years or so, it's time to get something new.

 

[careship]

Wouldn't it be great if the Motion pavilion were still broad based? Then we *could* have themes like this.

We don't want to see the same thing happening at the Land.

Grizz you are so right as usual. I love Test Track, I really do, but I liked WoM and it could have been added to it without losing anything IMHO. I am one of those people who want it back to the original, all of EPCOT, but I know this won't ever be the case. It's the whole destroying of Walt's vision that makes me ill. Granted, I knew that Futureworld (Innoventions etc) was going to become obsolete and old quickly, but .... I won't go on the preachy side of this. Anyways, I love Epcot. I love LS even without Nemo and wish the cabs would come back. I miss WoM and Horizons. Honestly, never been a fan of WoL. I sometimes forget about Universe of Energy. This is what they have done to me. Broken my heart. I have been to Disney since 72 every year. I have seen them grow and change and for the most part, welcomed it, but I don't like the destruction of Walt throughout. I hate explaining to my boys that JII was so much cooler when I was a kid. Telling them over there "used to be" and they say why is it gone. Now I answer....write to eisner and ask him. LOL I was glad though they finally got to see Timekeeper and CoP last October. They had never been able to see them and we've been there every year and my boys are going on 12 and 13. Ugh...I don't even want to go on...I have already left the topic of this discussion somewhere in a pile of what used to be beautiful pixie dust.

 

[General Grizz]

Thanks, careship!

I guess I'm in the minority on this, but I think these attractions are like my underwear . . . every ten years or so, it's time to get something new.

Just out of curiosity, are you expressing that the pavilion should be rethemed? Or new attractions (i.e. Soarin') can come and replace older ones in complementing the foundational theme?

 

[General Grizz]

Grizz you are so right as usual. I love Test Track, I really do, but I liked WoM and it could have been added to it without losing anything IMHO. I am one of those people who want it back to the original, all of EPCOT, but I know this won't ever be the case. It's the whole destroying of Walt's vision that makes me ill. Granted, I knew that Futureworld (Innoventions etc) was going to become obsolete and old quickly, but .... I won't go on the preachy side of this. Anyways, I love Epcot. I love LS even without Nemo and wish the cabs would come back. I miss WoM and Horizons. Honestly, never been a fan of WoL. I sometimes forget about Universe of Energy. This is what they have done to me. Broken my heart. I have been to Disney since 72 every year. I have seen them grow and change and for the most part, welcomed it, but I don't like the destruction of Walt throughout. I hate explaining to my boys that JII was so much cooler when I was a kid. Telling them over there "used to be" and they say why is it gone. Now I answer....write to eisner and ask him. LOL I was glad though they finally got to see Timekeeper and CoP last October. They had never been able to see them and we've been there every year and my boys are going on 12 and 13. Ugh...I don't even want to go on...I have already left the topic of this discussion somewhere in a pile of what used to be beautiful pixie dust.

Exactly, careship. And it's not necessarily that the attractions are being closed and replaced, but rather that their replacements do not make up (thematically, foundationally, or quality - whichever or all) for the losses.

I.e. Test Track focuses on testing cars versus motion and our quest to improve. . . Mission Space is a tiny building which focuses on a space flight versus the will do dream and succeed. . . and JII is now a cheap area about the senses and not imagination. If the first two attractions could have been add-ons to their originals - or if they would still be replacements, had these messages - then Epcot would be a lot better off. As for Imagination, that was totally budget cuts.

Let's not see the Land turn away from its great success in what it actually is.

 

[M:SpilotISTC12]

the land

Give people something to read, something to, dare I say, learn while they are waiting in line.

I like hohw I learn about Dinosaurs in the que. for dinosaur its keeps me entertained in line. I agree with grizz i hope they dont change the land. I like how grizz didnt diss mission space.

 

[careship]

I guess I'm in the minority on this, but I think these attractions are like my underwear . . . every ten years or so, it's time to get something new.

Am curious also. Do you mean they all need to go and replaced? I can understand that some things especially Innoventions type themes would have to be replaced or revamped to keep up with the times. Unfortunately when it comes to all things technical, everyday there is something new and better then the day before so it's hard to keep them from not looking outdated. As for the pavillions and rides, I don't see the same problems. Periodic updates etc sure, but not tear it down and build new, then it's like changing a very expensive diaper.

 

[General Grizz]

I agree with grizz i hope they dont change the land. I like how grizz didnt diss mission space.

Mission Space is a great ride. I was just explaining on how it could have been even more beneficial to the park if it were an add-on to an even broader, more elaborate attraction.

then it's like changing a very expensive diaper.

ROFL! :lol:

 

[garyhoov]

Thanks, careship!



Just out of curiosity, are you expressing that the pavilion should be rethemed? Or new attractions (i.e. Soarin') can come and replace older ones in complementing the foundational theme?

I'd say that depends, if the theme is good (and I think the Land's theme is good, but I'd question if "Food Rocks" fits that theme ), then redecorate and put some new attractions in. If the theme is bad (such as a hypothetical "History of the Third Reich Land") then I'd say scrap it and start fresh. If it's an absolutely great attraction (like Jungle cruise) refurbish it, add some animals from time to time and keep it going.

 

[careship]

grizz

I am glad you caught my meaning. I tend to ramble and pray my point gets across. I like Mission:Space I think it fits in the theme of EPCOT in some ways, but instead of being a learning pavillion like they should have done it is a ride with very little teaching in it. I always loved EPCOT as a kid because I learned such cool stuff. I will say this...when we went in October my sons science teacher gave him homework that actually had to be done in EPCOT. They have lessons that teachers can use for their students. He had a lot of really cool homework from this teacher. She had said though that there used to be alot more that she could use there for homework for kids on vacation until they took so much away there. That in and of itself should show something about the degradation (for lack of a better word) of EPCOT's true foundation. We live in Michigan so it's not like she just used local Florida school stuff for there.

 

[Lee]

Oh man, I saw this coming down I-4 days ago.....

My thoughts on this are sort of mixed, and contrary to much of the sentiment here.

Firstly, I LOVE Soarin'. I was blown away by it at DCA, and I'm thrilled that it is coming to Epcot. I, like many others, would like to see a new ride film, but I also understand the rationale for using the old one, at least for the first few years. (FYI, that is still the info I am getting, that a new film could premiere as early as Epcot's 25th.)

Second, I must admit to not being a HUGE Epcot fan. I simply have little interest in the educational aspects of the park. That goes for every one of the original pavillions. I enjoy Spaceship Earth, and on occasion Living with the Land. But I only enjoy them in the sense that they are fun little attractions, not because I am being educated about anything. Same for Test Track and Mission:SPACE. Great rides, with any messages about the future simply floating in the background. I expect the same from Soarin'. Entertaining ride first, educational message a distant second.

Third, the changes to the Land. I admit, my information here is sketchy. I was given about a three sentence description, and liked what I heard. I have NO INDICATION about an aviation theme coming to the pavillion. Soarin', as we all know, is a hang glider simulator not an airplane simulator. (True, it is in the Condor Flats section of DCA, and fits well there, but it could easily been put in another area.) Think of the changes as being more along the lines of seeing the land from the air, not really a celebration of flight or anything like that. (At least to my knowledge.) Food Rocks? I didn't really like it. Sunshine Season? I couldn't care less. Close the food court and put some good food in Innoventions West. Works for me.

Fourth, and last, Future World. My thoughts on Future World are the same as my thoughts on Tomorrowland. Scrap the entire concept of a serious look at the future. Why? Because as Walt found out years ago, you can't keep up with tomorrow due to it's nasty habit of becomming today. They have mostly learned this with Tomorrowland, and have gone with a more light hearted, sci-fi approach that works much better. It is now time to do the same with Future World. Want to name it Discoveryland? Fine. That would be a much better theme: What we are doing today to get us to tomorrow. That instead of trying to predict the future and end up looking dated a week from Thursday. You know what? I think Walt would agree.

Now, I'm going to go hide behind Tower of Terror to avoid the rotten eggs and tomatoes that I can already hear whistling through the air.

Edit: I'm gonna need to edit this a bit. Not all of my opinions are clearly stated. Bear with me.

 

[Expo_Seeker40]

Grizz, as always, you make an excellent point. Now just for my 2 cents...

The Land Pavilion is one of the last tradition EPCOT Center pavilions. I mean this by its architecture. It has had upgraded and new exhibits, uncluding a second sponcor, but because it works. You can't fururize the land LOL. It may sound korny to some, but really, the land pavilion is a beautiful pavilion, and it's charming landscape adds to it.

Now Grizz what you were saying, personally I think Soarin' will be a nice addidition to the pavilion, BUT, like you said, it' musn't overpower the pavilion. If they want to add an airport concorse, well then they should atleast add it to only the que line, not the entire pavilion!

Kitchen Kabaret/Food Rocks, sadly gone, sadly gone because a giant gift shop will be in their place. Now this is what the park has come to. EPCOT Center, a park dedicated in memory of Walt's city that never became, has now become Epcot. A park that is already becoming full of unessary gift shops, unreasonable thrill rides [you can get a better experience of thrills from driving from miami to lake buena vista].

Creative rides in dismay: Spaceship Earth begging for a face lift, and sponcorless, so are many rides in future world.

Problem? Some amount of people are getting pretty lazy under the Eisner administration. Theya re getting too cheap, and not creative. Future World to Discoveryland, Jules Verne Galore, seems like no one cares about predicting our future, now they wanna go back centuries, and add in thrill rides. Look likes someone wants to beat six flags, guess the family isn't important anymore.

P.S. Grizz, once again good job on your article. We'll just have to see what happens. I support Soarin', but I don't supporta massive gift shop, and a loss of a former attraction, nor do I support a overhaul of the land to become some possible airport terminal. Who's gonna visit? Catherine Zeta Jones and Tom Hanks?

 

[General Grizz]

Lee, thanks for your imput. I'm gonna ask a few questions, though.

Oh man, I saw this coming down I-4 days ago.....

Big traffic delay at 4 PM??

I expect the same from Soarin'. Entertaining ride first, educational message a distant second.

Ah, but education MUST be there. Something we can take with us. Just like Cranium Command, it can go into the subconscious and not be spoon-fed. I believe, however, that even more than education, INSPIRATION should come out of Disney's attractions.

Sure, Soarin' is inspiring (and *at this point* not educational, unless you're studying California), but what IS it inspiring? Inspiring us to visit Disneyland? Or could it be inspiring (like Kali River) to be saving the earth? Say, rainforests. Kali River is an excellent example of this type of attraction - thrilling, fun, and even inspirational.

Scrap the entire concept of a serious look at the future. Why? Because as Walt found out years ago, you can't keep up with tomorrow due to it's nasty habit of becomming today.

Are you saying that the future of the Land will be more futuristic? And will aesthetics and peacefulness remain? (I'm sure Walt loved peace).

But the main thing that gets me is "scrap the concept." This is The Land we are talking about - a necessary ingredient to the Future World story. It has always thrived, and it is still a living and futuristic greenhouse (methods mimicked even in outer space).

Are you saying that the foundations of the pavilion should be scrapped? And then changed to what? What would make the pavilion more worthwhile, and a better telling of the EPCOT story?

Thanks, Lee, your information is always appreciated.

And I still wanna build a Western River Expedition with you. :wave:

 

[garyhoov]

Grizz,

I honestly haven't read this whole thread in detail, so my inferences may be wrong, but you seem to be saying: Soarin' doesn't fit the theme of 'The Land' and you also don't like the idea that Food Rocks may be shut down.

Honestly, which attraction do you think better fits a theme of 'The Land'?

 

[General Grizz]

Gary, I would recommend that you read the entire first post.

As I said, I would rather have Soarin' than Food Rocks. However, Food Rocks fit into the pavilion as a supplement to the Living with the Land attraction -- agriculture and nutrition. As others have pointed out, it could have fit well in Wonders of Life. However, to see the attraction replaced by a gift shop (in essence)? This is where the line is drawn, because now the Land will be void for future use of the theatre.

Soarin' over California does not fit in with the Land - yet. If the film can change to enter the world of symbiosis, then it will be a great fit.

However, as I've mentioned in the original post, I am NOT upset that Soarin' is coming; I would love to experience it. Nor did I really care about Food Rocks.

What I DO care about can be read in Cases II, III, and IV - the foundations of the pavilion, and the ultimate view that a new attraction should not overpower the spirit and foundation of the original experience - in this case, the LAND itself, not necessarily its replacements. (Again, for details, check the first post).

 

[Steamboat_Kevin]

Wonderfully thought out post, Grizz :sohappy:
I *AM* looking forward to "Soarin", but I think that they should make it different from California Adventure's attraction. Why can't it be unique? Why can't it be Soarin' Over Florida? Or even an entirely different concept?
Originality is what I was really hoping for when I first heard about this attraction, but it seems as if it will be just a hand-me-down from WDW's older brother

 

[General Grizz]

Originality is what I was really hoping for when I first heard about this attraction, but it seems as if it will be just a hand-me-down from WDW's older brother

Glad to hear you have these great ideas. If it were my choice, I'd just call it "Soarin'" and have it a tour of the entire earth: tundras, boreal forests, tropical rainforests, grasslands, deserts, and show the nature of the world. Then, it would go more into farming landscapes and man's influence. Perhaps even so far as going into the rainforest destruction (adding a dramatic scene with music, perhaps), etc. etc.

To top it off, a dramatic "Listen to the Land" score.

But, looks to me that all we can do is sit in a Crisper drawer and ask for a pizza with extra marshmellows and pop-tarts.