The Force Awakens - spoiler thread

[TalkingHead]

But the only influence this one draws on, the main source it mines for inspiration, is other Star Wars films.. It's a great film in the Star Wars universe, but the only thing it draws on is its own franchise, and thus somehow feels more corporate and manufactured to be popular, and less organic and crazy as the films Lucas made, when he did so without a care in the world for what the audience thought of them.

I did wonder what Lucas must've thought watching Abrams "borrow" (or is that "pay tribute to") so many elements and beats from Lucas's original film. I mean what's he thinking when TFA's cantina scene comes on with similar shots and the same dramatic beats as ANH's cantina scene?

I guess he might feel flattered -- but it seems more likely Lucas, a guy who sees himself as a cinematic artist and visionary, would think, "I did this before him, and I did it better."

 

[JohnD]

I did wonder what Lucas must've thought watching Abrams "borrow" (or is that "pay tribute to") so many elements and beats from Lucas's original film. I mean what's he thinking when TFA's cantina scene comes on with similar shots and the same dramatic beats as ANH's cantina scene?

I guess he might feel flattered -- but it seems more likely Lucas, a guy who sees himself as a cinematic artist and visionary, would think, "I did this before him, and I did it better."

You mean like how Lucas borrowed from his own Cantina scene in ROTJ? There was a band, different species everywhere, and all eating an drinking. Lucas, in fact, made his own scene worse by including a new song and a very fake CGI singer.

 

[TalkingHead]

This is, for all intents and purposes, a remake of A New Hope. (granted, one with good acting, character development, and dialogue by both old and new characters - and the sum of the experience was positive).

I can't blame JJ for this. These problems come from the executive level.

Except Abrams has a track record of doing this in multiple films. I think it's more likely that he is the signature director of today's play-it-safe Hollywood. But I don't think he's an innocent party to this.

And I'm not sold on the character development in this film, either. The pacing of Finn's "turn" in the first scene misses the mark. That's just one of the problems I had with the character beats.

 

[TalkingHead]

You mean like how Lucas borrowed from his own Cantina scene in ROTJ? There was a band, different species everywhere, and all eating an drinking. Lucas, in fact, made his own scene worse by including a new song and a very fake CGI singer.

Yeah, and the recycling is one of the criticisms leveled at Jedi.

Abrams gave us, among other things, the third Death Star. ("This isn't the Death Star -- it's bigger!" Holy smokes, what a visionary.) As if the first two weren't good enough.

Way too derivative for my tastes.

 

[fractal]

One more thing that bothers me regarding Starkiller base; If they are sucking all the energy out of the nearsest sun, at the point that sun is gone wouldn't the entire planet Starkiller base is on turn into a giant iceball? Also, wouldn't this just freeze all the planets in that sun's solar system and if so then why the need to blow them up?

The Death Star was able to blow up one planet with power generated internally, but Starkiller has so soak up the incredible power of a nearby star to kill 3 or 4 planets? Wouldn't the energy required to draw, contain and then emit the energy of a star be greater than the energy of the emitted rays themselves? Did anybody take a physics class or science class?

 

[Nemo14]

One more thing that bothers me regarding Starkiller base; If they are sucking all the energy out of the nearsest sun, at the point that sun is gone wouldn't the entire planet Starkiller base is on turn into a giant iceball? Also, wouldn't this just freeze all the planets in that sun's solar system and if so then why the need to blow them up?

The Death Star was able to blow up one planet with power generated internally, but Starkiller has so soak up the incredible power of a nearby star to kill 3 or 4 planets? Wouldn't the energy required to draw, contain and then emit the energy of a star be greater than the energy of the emitted rays themselves? Did anybody take a physics class or science class?

Sounds ike the perfect setup for StarWars VIII - Elsa Strikes Back.

 

[Arthur Wellesley]

One more thing that bothers me regarding Starkiller base; If they are sucking all the energy out of the nearsest sun, at the point that sun is gone wouldn't the entire planet Starkiller base is on turn into a giant iceball? Also, wouldn't this just freeze all the planets in that sun's solar system and if so then why the need to blow them up?

The Death Star was able to blow up one planet with power generated internally, but Starkiller has so soak up the incredible power of a nearby star to kill 3 or 4 planets? Wouldn't the energy required to draw, contain and then emit the energy of a star be greater than the energy of the emitted rays themselves? Did anybody take a physics class or science class?

The Force made it all possible.

 

[danlb_2000]

The Force made it all possible.

That's not how the Force works!

 

[flynnibus]

One more thing that bothers me regarding Starkiller base; If they are sucking all the energy out of the nearsest sun, at the point that sun is gone wouldn't the entire planet Starkiller base is on turn into a giant iceball? Also, wouldn't this just freeze all the planets in that sun's solar system and if so then why the need to blow them up?

The Death Star was able to blow up one planet with power generated internally, but Starkiller has so soak up the incredible power of a nearby star to kill 3 or 4 planets? Wouldn't the energy required to draw, contain and then emit the energy of a star be greater than the energy of the emitted rays themselves? Did anybody take a physics class or science class?

Not sure what you mean... conservation of energy doesn't apply to forces vs what 'contains' them. A very small electrical potential difference can move a very large amount of energy.

 

[fractal]

Not sure what you mean... conservation of energy doesn't apply to forces vs what 'contains' them. A very small electrical potential difference can move a very large amount of energy.

Let's say the "star" is average sized like our Sun. Let's say it's 90million miles away (approx the same as the Earth to the Sun). How much energy would it take to slowly "suck" the Sun from 90million miles away. Remember that the Sun is a mammoth nuclear reactor held together by enormous gravitational forces. Remember you can fit over 1million Earths in the Sun ( Starkiller base seems much smaller than Earth). So you suck that Star into a "containment vessel the size of, let's say generously the size of a large city. So we are condensing the plasma, energy and mass of the Sun into something that size. Again, over 1million Earths fit inside the Sun. Imagine the energy needed to compress and contain that mass and to keep it from not effecting the course of the base itself. I can't. Then the energy needed to target and compress that mass into beams to be fired accurately at planets tens of millions of miles away. The temperature of the Sun is 27 million degrees. You've condensed 1million Earths with a temperature of 27million degrees into the size of a city after breaking it's gravitation force (The mass of the Sun makes up 99% of the mass of our solar system). My point is - the energy needed to do that would massively dwarf the energy of 3 Death Stars ( what it would take to destroy 3 planets in the Star Wars universe ).

 

[flynnibus]

Let's say the "star" is average sized like our Sun. Let's say it's 90million miles away (approx the same as the Earth to the Sun). How much energy would it take to slowly "suck" the Sun from 90million miles away. Remember that the Sun is a mammoth nuclear reactor held together by enormous gravitational forces. Remember you can fit over 1million Earths in the Sun ( Starkiller base seems much smaller than Earth). So you suck that Star into a "containment vessel the size of, let's say generously the size of a large city. So we are condensing the plasma, energy and mass of the Sun into something that size. Again, over 1million Earths fit inside the Sun. Imagine the energy needed to compress and contain that mass and to keep it from not effecting the course of the base itself. I can't. Then the energy needed to target and compress that mass into beams to be fired accurately at planets tens of millions of miles away. The temperature of the Sun is 27 million degrees. You've condensed 1million Earths with a temperature of 27million degrees into the size of a city after breaking it's gravitation force (The mass of the Sun makes up 99% of the mass of our solar system). My point is - the energy needed to do that would massively dwarf the energy of 3 Death Stars ( what it would take to destroy 3 planets in the Star Wars universe ).

I didn't take it to mean they were taking the sun's mass... But rather taking all the energy output of the sun... Including potentially impacting the chain reaction that was powering it. Dunno, it's a movie plot element that wasn't critical to the outcome imho... So in one ear out the other.

I was more put off that this is a planet sized element, yet people and elements move around it as if it were a simple local base.

That and when the trench appeared and they went in... I almost wanted to puke.

 

[Cesar R M]

Yeah, and the recycling is one of the criticisms leveled at Jedi.

Abrams gave us, among other things, the third Death Star. ("This isn't the Death Star -- it's bigger!" Holy smokes, what a visionary.) As if the first two weren't good enough.

Way too derivative for my tastes.

Agree with you on this, they could have used the planet killer from the Expanded universe or a navy "shipyard" that is building the ECLIPSE class super dreadnoughts... they had a lot of material than the "Texas" sized super death star.

 

[Cesar R M]

One more thing that bothers me regarding Starkiller base; If they are sucking all the energy out of the nearsest sun, at the point that sun is gone wouldn't the entire planet Starkiller base is on turn into a giant iceball? Also, wouldn't this just freeze all the planets in that sun's solar system and if so then why the need to blow them up?

The Death Star was able to blow up one planet with power generated internally, but Starkiller has so soak up the incredible power of a nearby star to kill 3 or 4 planets? Wouldn't the energy required to draw, contain and then emit the energy of a star be greater than the energy of the emitted rays themselves? Did anybody take a physics class or science class?

IF all the energy is stored INSIDE the star killer, obviously it can generate its own power inside to keep the planet warm and not freeze.

 

[Cesar R M]

Let's say the "star" is average sized like our Sun. Let's say it's 90million miles away (approx the same as the Earth to the Sun). How much energy would it take to slowly "suck" the Sun from 90million miles away. Remember that the Sun is a mammoth nuclear reactor held together by enormous gravitational forces. Remember you can fit over 1million Earths in the Sun ( Starkiller base seems much smaller than Earth). So you suck that Star into a "containment vessel the size of, let's say generously the size of a large city. So we are condensing the plasma, energy and mass of the Sun into something that size. Again, over 1million Earths fit inside the Sun. Imagine the energy needed to compress and contain that mass and to keep it from not effecting the course of the base itself. I can't. Then the energy needed to target and compress that mass into beams to be fired accurately at planets tens of millions of miles away. The temperature of the Sun is 27 million degrees. You've condensed 1million Earths with a temperature of 27million degrees into the size of a city after breaking it's gravitation force (The mass of the Sun makes up 99% of the mass of our solar system). My point is - the energy needed to do that would massively dwarf the energy of 3 Death Stars ( what it would take to destroy 3 planets in the Star Wars universe ).

Theres still many things that we dont know..
Anyone remember the hyper giant stars like VV Cephei, MU Cephei, Betelgeuse or VY Canis Majoris, (or the latest "hyper giant UY Scutti") ?
They are so large that they theoretically shouldn't exist. And how they constantly "shed" mass by pulses that push materia away from their monstrous gravitational pulls and thus "change" of size constantly.

 

[erasure fan1]

Maybe its just me, but if I was going to get hung up on the science of things, I think I'd of stopped at the force. I get the over borrowing from the other movies complaint but for me its star wars not a science lesson. But to each their own.

 

[rael ramone]

Except Abrams has a track record of doing this in multiple films. I think it's more likely that he is the signature director of today's play-it-safe Hollywood. But I don't think he's an innocent party to this.

And I'm not sold on the character development in this film, either. The pacing of Finn's "turn" in the first scene misses the mark. That's just one of the problems I had with the character beats.

So he's the new Brett Ratner?....

If you've picked that up from seeing JJ's stuff (my only 2 'experiences' with his output I spent the whole running time in a constant rage so I probably wasn't picking up that kind of stuff) that means he's on the hook as well... Perhaps one of the reasons JJ got the job as they saw him as 'pliable'.

I have to see it one more time (due to a family member wanting to see it) but right now I'd rank it #5 out of 7 at best. Nowhere near any of the originals, and it can't touch Phantom either

I miss the days when franchises tried NEW things...

 

[Cosmic Commando]

Let's say the "star" is average sized like our Sun. Let's say it's 90million miles away (approx the same as the Earth to the Sun). How much energy would it take to slowly "suck" the Sun from 90million miles away. Remember that the Sun is a mammoth nuclear reactor held together by enormous gravitational forces. Remember you can fit over 1million Earths in the Sun ( Starkiller base seems much smaller than Earth). So you suck that Star into a "containment vessel the size of, let's say generously the size of a large city. So we are condensing the plasma, energy and mass of the Sun into something that size. Again, over 1million Earths fit inside the Sun. Imagine the energy needed to compress and contain that mass and to keep it from not effecting the course of the base itself. I can't. Then the energy needed to target and compress that mass into beams to be fired accurately at planets tens of millions of miles away. The temperature of the Sun is 27 million degrees. You've condensed 1million Earths with a temperature of 27million degrees into the size of a city after breaking it's gravitation force (The mass of the Sun makes up 99% of the mass of our solar system). My point is - the energy needed to do that would massively dwarf the energy of 3 Death Stars ( what it would take to destroy 3 planets in the Star Wars universe ).

You're making a Star Trek argument in a Star Wars movie. The science doesn't really matter for Star Wars. Did you notice they fight with solid beams of light that stop in mid-air?

 

[Wendy Pleakley]

Create your own opening crawl at http://www.starwars.com/games-apps/star-wars-crawl-creator

Should have been a VII, but you get the idea

 

[Wendy Pleakley]

I understand what your getting at, but given the popularity of Luke Skywalker SHOULDN'T he overshadow the new characters? Apart from Darth Vader, he's the overall staple of Star Wars. He's what people come to see and I believe having Luke show off his amazing skills as a wise and older Jedi Master would have had all those nostalgia fans flailing in their seats. They would have to re-tool the story, so what? If anything the new characters should have been put on the back burner for later films in order to give the older actors one last chance to "shine". Even with that said, they probably could just have Luke say something like "You could not find me because I only allowed you to see what I wanted you to see" have him use a secret Jedi technique that he mastered in his later years. Similar to the invisibility cloak in Harry Potter.

Doing it this way gave Han his chance to shine, allowed the new characters to establish themselves, and gives us Luke to look forward to in the next episode.

Luke showing up sooner would have been exciting for sure, but it wouldn't be a simple re-tooling of the story. No map, no quest to find Luke. It would require changing a lot.

It also gets the audience emotionally involved. We care about the character's search for Luke because we care about Luke.

 

[Cesar R M]

Create your own opening crawl at http://www.starwars.com/games-apps/star-wars-crawl-creator

Should have been a VII, but you get the idea

I've seen some really funny ones in tumblr and imgur lately.

my favourite is the shia lebaouf one based on the shia's song.

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