The "Disney Look"

[Cattman96]

How did a racist like you ever get out of scool? It doesn't matter where in the park he would work. The law clearly states that Disney is required to accomodate his religious beliefs unless they have a legitimate public interest not to. "Cowboys are white" is NOT a legitimate public interest, no matter how much you attempt to argue the point with me.



Wow. The racists have really come out. Disneyland's policies were discriminatory then as well. Walt Disney's clean-cut policy was a direct result of his own discrimination (which is well-documented). Disneyland also didn't permit blacks to even enter the park, so what has been done in the past is not relevant. And which subsequently was ruled unconstitutional. What is relevant is current law. Where, in your infinite wisdom, can you prove to me that muslims with beards cannot be astronauts, or river guides, or ranchers? Just because they don't meet your stereotypical expectations doesn't make you right. BUt I won't argue that. I will argue the law. If Disney cannot justify it's policy, then they will have to change it.



So you are telling me, that if a muslim were working at NASA, he wouldn't wear his turban? Or if he were the skipper of a river cruise in the Amazon? It is not up to Disney to decide what is culturally acceptable. So you people advocate that Disney violate the law and NOT attempt to make reasonable accomodation? I'm not advocating that any old slacker should just be able to appear at work any way he or she wants, but here we are talking about someone's religion. And point of fact, it is well documented that it is tennent of Islam that men grow beards, so it isn't as if he decided to grow one and then hide behind religion to keep it. If it were a woman suing because they wouldn't let her wear a cross under her shirt, you'd probably be screaming bloody murder. Someone with a beard does not violate Disney's image of a clean atmosphere. As I said, unless Disney can prove that in order for the experience to be "magical" no one can have facial hair (which is a policy Walt Disney himself violated), then they are breaking the law.

When you have no real argument, the easiest thing to do is play the race card. Not one person here depicted his faith in a derogitory fashion.

 

[RSoxNo1]

How did a racist like you ever get out of scool? It doesn't matter where in the park he would work. The law clearly states that Disney is required to accomodate his religious beliefs unless they have a legitimate public interest not to. "Cowboys are white" is NOT a legitimate public interest, no matter how much you attempt to argue the point with me.



Wow. The racists have really come out. Disneyland's policies were discriminatory then as well. Walt Disney's clean-cut policy was a direct result of his own discrimination (which is well-documented). Disneyland also didn't permit blacks to even enter the park, so what has been done in the past is not relevant. And which subsequently was ruled unconstitutional. What is relevant is current law. Where, in your infinite wisdom, can you prove to me that muslims with beards cannot be astronauts, or river guides, or ranchers? Just because they don't meet your stereotypical expectations doesn't make you right. BUt I won't argue that. I will argue the law. If Disney cannot justify it's policy, then they will have to change it.



So you are telling me, that if a muslim were working at NASA, he wouldn't wear his turban? Or if he were the skipper of a river cruise in the Amazon? It is not up to Disney to decide what is culturally acceptable. So you people advocate that Disney violate the law and NOT attempt to make reasonable accomodation? I'm not advocating that any old slacker should just be able to appear at work any way he or she wants, but here we are talking about someone's religion. And point of fact, it is well documented that it is tennent of Islam that men grow beards, so it isn't as if he decided to grow one and then hide behind religion to keep it. If it were a woman suing because they wouldn't let her wear a cross under her shirt, you'd probably be screaming bloody murder. Someone with a beard does not violate Disney's image of a clean atmosphere. As I said, unless Disney can prove that in order for the experience to be "magical" no one can have facial hair (which is a policy Walt Disney himself violated), then they are breaking the law.

You are so off base it's not even funny. There are attributes built into the park's design (see: Utiladors) to ensure that people don't appear out of place for their role at Disney. This debate started over at Inside the Magic, and several valid points have been brought up. Disney has very specific guidelines for all of their cast members to ensure that "Disney Look". If this results in them changing these guidelines then fine, but I find it hard to believe that those guidelines are going to be declared unconstitutional.

As for the black/white issues, segregation was a country wide problem and was not specific to Disney World, although race doesn't appear to be the case with this issue, there are certainly degrees of racism about how Muslims are perceived in this country. You pointedly said that it is not up to Disney to decide what is cultural acceptable, which is true. But it also contradicts your argument. Nobody said that a Muslim couldn't be an astronaut, or whatever other jobs you through out there. However, Disney considers their employees as actor's in a play. They're casting various roles, and they have clearly defined guidelines for each of these roles. If this individual was qualified to be an imagineer I'm sure they would have no problem with his appearance.

 

[XaiChai]

http://www.tmz.com/2008/06/16/mickey-doesnt-wear-turbans/

From what I've read, the guy had already been hired but he marched as a toy soldier and his head and face were completely covered. If Disney is going to force the "Disney look" on their employees they should have done it from the very beginning. He doesn't have a beard or a turban for vanity, he has those things because they are required by his religion and I think Disney should respect that. There are many places where he could work that wouldn't require him to be seen by the general public, though I personally wouldn't mind seeing someone with a turban and a beard anywhere

 

[XaiChai]

To my knowledge African Americans are allowed to wear corn rows...and THAT doesn't violate the "theming" that some people are talking about? Just cause its something that maybe your not used to seeing everyday doesn't mean it violates "theming"

 

[lscott933]

he was in the band and had a mask and hat over his beard and turban According to the suit, while Walt Disney World[/url] as a seasonal college musician in October 2005, which involves parade and atmospheric performances. While performing onstage in parades, he was in a toy soldier costume, with the soldier hat covering his turban and the soldier head hiding his beard. At first, he was allowed to wear a red turban instead of the standard red tubran in atmospheric performances, but he was removed from the atmospheric position due to not complying with "The Disney Look." Channa was terminated in early 2006 on the grounds of violating the grooming standards, and when he applied for reinstatement as a seasonal musician in October 2006, he was denied on the same basis. The lawsuit, filed by Miami attorney Matt Sarelson in Hillsborough County circuit court on behalf of Channa and the Sikh American Legal Defence and Education Fund (SALDEF), alleges that Disney is violating the Florida Civil Rights Act. The suit seeks damages of at least $1 million and asks that the court prevent Disney from discriminating against Sikh employees and prospective employees this all happen in 2005 and he want to be rehire and they didn't have a part for him. it sounds like it was at christmas time he was a toy soldier

here what happen and you guy have a been really off the topic.

 

[bingie]

Plus, where do you draw the line at "Religions"... There are many religions out ther, with many different sets of beliefs. In fact, I can make my own religion and my own beliefs....

But.. to work for WDW - you need to follow their costuming guidlines for an on stage CM.

Included in the "Disney Look" is a section of hygene. There are some people that due to beliefs or (who knows why) don't where any form of deoderant or anti-perspirant. It clearly states in the guide that you must wear them, to not have an offense odour. Some of my fellow CMs have not, and have gotten in trouble for it, and they should have seen it coming.

 

[Fun2BFree]

http://www.tmz.com/2008/06/16/mickey-doesnt-wear-turbans/

I'll warn anyone that took offense to anyone's comments here in the thread not to look in the comments section of this article. At least we are capable of non-crude relatively-civil conversation here.

 

[redkoala245]

He got fired maybe because of 9/11 and people would be nervous of coming to WDW of just looking at him, which can maybe scare crowds away. And if anyone saw him while they are in WDW they might feel disturbed and they won't think WDW will be safe place to stay and go to another park in Orlando. I'm not trying to be racist or rude.
I might be wrong. I am just saying of how I feel. And also it is part of their religion.
What was he working for?

 

[Kingdom WDW]

It will be very interesting to see how this works out.

While I agree conceptually with the majority of people that it's just tough luck, take off our hat or you don't work, legally it's not that cut and dry, and as fosse76 says the burden is on Disney to "prove" why wearing a turban would ruin the "show". To the outside world, a guy who works serving burgers at Pecos Bills is no different than a guy who works at McDonalds, you've got to remember that that intangible "magic" is just that, intangibile and would be hard to prove that the headwear of an employee in a protected class would "ruin" it.

That said, I also think fosse76 is absolutely correct that it will be settled, and this guy will probably get a small chunk of change out of it just to get rid of him and it. Disney doesn't want to get into it with another religious group, they have enough issues with the Evangelicals.

AEfx

I can attest to that...:lol:

 

[Piebald]

I think I actually met this guy last time I went. I remember getting his autograph as well.

 

[Kingdom WDW]

:ROFLOL: :ROFLOL:

Thanks, we needed that.

 

[RSoxNo1]

From what I've read, the guy had already been hired but he marched as a toy soldier and his head and face were completely covered. If Disney is going to force the "Disney look" on their employees they should have done it from the very beginning. He doesn't have a beard or a turban for vanity, he has those things because they are required by his religion and I think Disney should respect that. There are many places where he could work that wouldn't require him to be seen by the general public, though I personally wouldn't mind seeing someone with a turban and a beard anywhere

It sounds like he was there, in a parade, but not as an employee of Disney. Disney has grand marshall's of their parade that are guests. I find it hard to believe that they force these people to adhere to Disney's standards when they're not employed by Disney.

He got fired maybe because of 9/11 and people would be nervous of coming to WDW of just looking at him, which can maybe scare crowds away. And if anyone saw him while they are in WDW they might feel disturbed and they won't think WDW will be safe place to stay and go to another park in Orlando. I'm not trying to be racist or rude.
I might be wrong. I am just saying of how I feel. And also it is part of their religion.
What was he working for?

That might be the most ignorant statement in this site's history. This guy was not fired because of 9/11, he was fired because he didn't adhere to certain appearance standards. This is no difference then not allowing an Orthodox Jew to work there with a long beard and Yarmulke.

I think I actually met this guy last time I went. I remember getting his autograph as well.

I'm guessing this was a joke, but in all seriousness, the Jack Sparrow face character has a glued on beard. Disney won't allow them to grow their own. Jafar is a cartoon character, and I guarantee that the person that's wearing the Jafar costume doesn't have a beard or turban.

 

[Wilt Dasney]

The "cast member" thing is cute, but I think it becomes BS at a certain point.

Is the guy pushing a broom down Main Street "playing the part" of a janitor, or is he a janitor?

Is the girl who takes your order at Cosmic Ray's "assuming the role" of a fast-food worker, or is she a fast-food worker?

I know which answer Disney gives, and I think it's a fun little conceit, but in the end, it's just a semantic device to try to turn cashiers into actors. I would hardly consider it a valid legal defense.

Basically, once you get past entertainment, attractions and the occasional really motivated person who can turn ANYthing into a whimsical role, you're left with cashiers being cashiers. Or cashiers pretending to be actors pretending to be cashiers, if you want to get really meta about it.

Hope I don't come off as a Grinch here. I like pixie dust and all, but I also think it gets taken too seriously sometimes. :shrug:

 

[Piebald]

The "Disney Look" is so subjective when it comes to your individual managers. Some managers/areas let some things slide while others will be on your ______ completely about things such as tiny chin hairs or your hair being too long. I mean, Disney has their own little rule book of course but then just like every other rule they have there are always people who who fiddle with it and try to push it as most as they can. We discussed something similar to this in my health law class (I don't know why but I think we obviously veered off topic) about how Disney would try to hire people for the Polynesian Resort who would fit the "look". There were lawsuits and whatnot. I don't know whatever happened though or if they were settled or thrown out of court.

 

[cndrellagrl]

He knew the rules when he was hired. There is a contract. Disney is a show. Simple.

 

[wedway71]

I dont work for Disney yet but I have been in Management and had a stint as a Regional Human Resources Manager for a large Retailer.

If Disney has a clear definition of the Disney Look in the Cast Member Handbook than the guy has no chance.
If he was hired and he accepted employement with the Disney Look guidelines in place he has no chance.

Maybe Disney can make an arrangement for him to work offstage but they do not have to.

 

[figmentmom]

Disney is crystal clear about their expectations for adhering to the dress and appearance code. You receive that message BEFORE you are formally interviewed at Casting. Disney is putting on a show, and all Cast Members are expected, as part of that show, to follow the rules. If you cannot follow those rules, Disney will not hire you. If you agree to follow them, are hired, and later change your mind, you will find yourself seeking employment elsewhere.

 

[SeaBreeze]

I'm always hesitant to post in such charged threads but a lot of people have suggested just having him work backstage. I was a backstage CM and I had a Disney Look to abide by. For men, the beard is still an issue, onstage or off. I imagine if they let one person slide on a part of the look, then there'd be chaos with everyone wanting to change something. However, I think the cornrows was a semi-recent amendment so who knows what the future brings.

 

[wedway71]

I'm always hesitant to post in such charged threads but a lot of people have suggested just having him work backstage. I was a backstage CM and I had a Disney Look to abide by. For men, the beard is still an issue, onstage or off. I imagine if they let one person slide on a part of the look, then there'd be chaos with everyone wanting to change something. However, I think the cornrows was a semi-recent amendment so who knows what the future brings.

Yes,you are right about the Cornrows.It was a few years back.

I still think that Disney should have stayed with the no mustach rule.It was said that Disney was more strict than the Marines.....At least in the Marines you could have a mustach.

Speak about beards I still to this day,have an old(mid 90s) WDW brochure booklet that has a pic of a CM at a Disney Hotel working the buffet at the cutting station with a full beard.
To this day it baffles me about who this guy was but he had a WDW name tag.

 

[elizs77]

It is legal for employers to say you have to meet X standards for work. It applies equally to everyone. For instance, they can say that ALL women have hair 12 inches long and that ALL men have to dye their hair pink. Now, if someone has issues with the standards, whether it's just personal preference, religious, moral, etc., then you simply don't take the job. The legal issue arises when the standards aren't applied to everyone and exceptions are made. That's the slippery slope.