The "Disney Look"

[fosse76]

Hypocrisy is the judicial system. You cannot discriminate against someone because of their religon, but wait a minute you cannot wear that cross to school. No wonder there is so much grey area and no clear cut option. If you give the guy a job backstage than you have set a precendent. Disney needs to stick to there guns on this one.

You are twisting the issue. The pope (or whatever christian leader decides these things) has never dictated that catholics (or whatever you are] MUST wear a cross at all times. The bible does not say "one MUST wear a cross at all times." However, Muslims have firm beliefs when it comes to appearance. And Disney will be hard-pressed to prove in a court of law how having a beard does not fit their image. It's one thing for someone to have long hair. It's another to have long hair as requirement of one's faith.

I'm not really siding with him, but perhaps Disney could put him to work in Adventureland? His image would be perfectly at home there. I don't know, just a thought.:shrug:

This pretty much proves that Disney exercises nothing more than racial stereotypes in its parks and films. The only place this guy would "fit-in" is in Adventureland or as a villain in Fanatsyland. What a great world to be in. However, that could technically be a legal recourse, since Disney merely must accomodate him.

But I'm with Disney on this one. Being hired at Disney is like casting roles for a play. You have to look the part.

What part is that? Whiitebread American college boy? While the former CM in question must prove he was discriminated against, Disney is also going to have to prove that their policies are Constitutional and that they refused to make an accomodation based on that it would be detrimental to the park's so-called image. What next? Are they going to prevent black men and women from working in Frontierland because there were no black cowboys? How about only hiring Brazilians to work the Jungle Cruise. Show me how a muslim with a beard ruins Disney's image?

But now after this, I can imagine the PC police will come in and will start calling Disney racists and Disney will change its guidlines just for the sake of making the controversy going away.

So now it's politically correct to want to be able to have a job AND practice ones religion? I wish people would make up their minds.

 

[flashinghelmet]

Oh and can i just say that disney also allows earrings (something that i think can detract from the show and not fit the theme), and weddings rings, which as far as I'm aware is originally a religious sign (although not so much nowadays). However, what it does show is Disney allowing a cast member to have something that isn't part of their costume, but enables them to show their pride in something, that actually is irrelevant in the work place.

 

[Cattman96]

You are twisting the issue. The pope (or whatever christian leader decides these things) has never dictated that catholics (or whatever you are] MUST wear a cross at all times. The bible does not say "one MUST wear a cross at all times." However, Muslims have firm beliefs when it comes to appearance. And Disney will be hard-pressed to prove in a court of law how having a beard does not fit their image. It's one thing for someone to have long hair. It's another to have long hair as requirement of one's faith.




This pretty much proves that Disney exercises nothing more than racial stereotypes in its parks and films. The only place this guy would "fit-in" is in Adventureland or as a villain in Fanatsyland. What a great world to be in. However, that could technically be a legal recourse, since Disney merely must accomodate him.



What part is that? Whiitebread American college boy? While the former CM in question must prove he was discriminated against, Disney is also going to have to prove that their policies are Constitutional and that they refused to make an accomodation based on that it would be detrimental to the park's so-called image. What next? Are they going to prevent black men and women from working in Frontierland because there were no black cowboys? How about only hiring Brazilians to work the Jungle Cruise. Show me how a muslim with a beard ruins Disney's image?



So now it's politically correct to want to be able to have a job AND practice ones religion? I wish people would make up their minds.

Come on. I'm twisting the issue. This simply isn't a religous issue to me. His religon doesn't state he has to work at Disney either. This whole political correctness is chaffing my . I'm sorry. Here are the guidelines. Can you conform to them. If not find a job elsewhere.

 

[cblodg]

Oh and can i just say that disney also allows earrings (something that i think can detract from the show and not fit the theme), and weddings rings, which as far as I'm aware is originally a religious sign (although not so much nowadays). However, what it does show is Disney allowing a cast member to have something that isn't part of their costume, but enables them to show their pride in something, that actually is irrelevant in the work place.

Wedding rings are indeed a "religious" symbol of marriage, however in the olden days the ring was more a part of the dowry provided by the bride's family (in some cultures).

 

[imagineer boy]

This pretty much proves that Disney exercises nothing more than racial stereotypes in its parks and films. The only place this guy would "fit-in" is in Adventureland or as a villain in Fanatsyland. What a great world to be in. However, that could technically be a legal recourse, since Disney merely must accomodate him.

Yup, the PC police showed up right on time.:lol:

Stereotypes may be cliches but they're mostly true. Not that I'm being racially insinsitive here, but come on, how odd would it look to see a guy wearing a turban walking around in a cowboy costum in Frontierland huh? You're more likely to see people wearing turbans in India, thus it fits in with the atmosphere of Adventureland.

What part is that? Whiitebread American college boy? While the former CM in question must prove he was discriminated against, Disney is also going to have to prove that their policies are Constitutional and that they refused to make an accomodation based on that it would be detrimental to the park's so-called image. What next? Are they going to prevent black men and women from working in Frontierland because there were no black cowboys? How about only hiring Brazilians to work the Jungle Cruise. Show me how a muslim with a beard ruins Disney's image?

Disney has always done this since Disneyland opened in 1955. Rugged adventurouse looking people work in frontierland, older CMs work in Main Street, women mostly work in Fantaseyland, clean cut CMs work in Tomorrowland. Its what makes the atmosphere work. A muslim with a beard and turban would clash with the theming terribly. It would be bad show!

 

[Fizbain32]

think there is anyway I can get on the jury for this one?

 

[utrythinkinof1]

I think a man with a long beard and turban would be a lightning rod for insults from some guests... it's unfortunate, but I think it's inevitable that he will be criticized on the job. :shrug:

 

[Cattman96]

Yup, the PC police showed up right on time.:lol:

Stereotypes may be cliches but they're mostly true. Not that I'm being racially insinsitive here, but come on, how odd would it look to see a guy wearing a turban walking around in a cowboy costum in Frontierland huh? You're more likely to see people wearing turbans in India, thus it fits in with the atmosphere of Adventureland.



Disney has always done this since Disneyland opened in 1955. Rugged adventurouse looking people work in frontierland, older CMs work in Main Street, women mostly work in Fantaseyland, clean cut CMs work in Tomorrowland. Its what makes the atmosphere work. A muslim with a beard and turban would clash with the theming terribly. It would be bad show!

Very well said.

 

[nmj91385]

I must say that this discussion has gone to some extremes! I agree though that it is not being racially insensitive or religiously insensitive. There is a theme throughout the park and for the most part the turban does not work.

As for people feeling bad for him and saying disney needs to just find him a job. That is not the point. If he wants the job he can have it, if he is willing to change his appearance. If not, there are plenty of other places to gain employment at in the area.

 

[LAPVLB]

The "no beard/facial hair" regulation applies to EVERY frontline CM. It's right in the Disney Look guidelines. It's not like Disney singled him out. When I interviewed, that was one of the first things they asked me:

"Do you understand the Disney Look guidelines set forth here? Do you agree to comply... blah blah."

You bet I do. I want the on-stage job!

 

[DisneyJoe]

Here's a link to the guidelines:
http://www.wdwcollegeprogram.com/sap/its/mimes/zh_wdwcp/disneylook/cast_all.html
http://www.wdwcollegeprogram.com/sap/its/mimes/zh_wdwcp/disneylook/males_all.html

 

[fosse76]

Yup, the PC police showed up right on time.:lol:

Stereotypes may be cliches but they're mostly true. Not that I'm being racially insinsitive here, but come on, how odd would it look to see a guy wearing a turban walking around in a cowboy costum in Frontierland huh? You're more likely to see people wearing turbans in India, thus it fits in with the atmosphere of Adventureland.

How did a racist like you ever get out of scool? It doesn't matter where in the park he would work. The law clearly states that Disney is required to accomodate his religious beliefs unless they have a legitimate public interest not to. "Cowboys are white" is NOT a legitimate public interest, no matter how much you attempt to argue the point with me.

Disney has always done this since Disneyland opened in 1955. Rugged adventurouse looking people work in frontierland, older CMs work in Main Street, women mostly work in Fantaseyland, clean cut CMs work in Tomorrowland. Its what makes the atmosphere work. A muslim with a beard and turban would clash with the theming terribly. It would be bad show!

Wow. The racists have really come out. Disneyland's policies were discriminatory then as well. Walt Disney's clean-cut policy was a direct result of his own discrimination (which is well-documented). Disneyland also didn't permit blacks to even enter the park, so what has been done in the past is not relevant. And which subsequently was ruled unconstitutional. What is relevant is current law. Where, in your infinite wisdom, can you prove to me that muslims with beards cannot be astronauts, or river guides, or ranchers? Just because they don't meet your stereotypical expectations doesn't make you right. BUt I won't argue that. I will argue the law. If Disney cannot justify it's policy, then they will have to change it.

I must say that this discussion has gone to some extremes! I agree though that it is not being racially insensitive or religiously insensitive. There is a theme throughout the park and for the most part the turban does not work.

So you are telling me, that if a muslim were working at NASA, he wouldn't wear his turban? Or if he were the skipper of a river cruise in the Amazon? It is not up to Disney to decide what is culturally acceptable. So you people advocate that Disney violate the law and NOT attempt to make reasonable accomodation? I'm not advocating that any old slacker should just be able to appear at work any way he or she wants, but here we are talking about someone's religion. And point of fact, it is well documented that it is tennent of Islam that men grow beards, so it isn't as if he decided to grow one and then hide behind religion to keep it. If it were a woman suing because they wouldn't let her wear a cross under her shirt, you'd probably be screaming bloody murder. Someone with a beard does not violate Disney's image of a clean atmosphere. As I said, unless Disney can prove that in order for the experience to be "magical" no one can have facial hair (which is a policy Walt Disney himself violated), then they are breaking the law.

 

[Katherine]

While I'm all for being accommodating of beliefs I agree with many who have posted.

The moment a guest walks onto disney property they are immersed in "disney" (I put it in quotations because this is a very broad term).

Also, Disney is a privately owned company. It is a production. It states in the contract no facial hair except for a well groomed mustache (or at least that is what the college program video said). He knew this going in and broke contract. On the business side there is nothing.

However, if it turns into a trial about the guidelines that disney has, then something could come about in court. If they start berating these "arbitrary appearance rules" and calling them racist then maybe, but I still think that this will not fly because it's in the contract, they are a private company, and they are a production.

When I interview for disney you better bet that I'm going to take out my piercings, they are only in my ears but they do not fit the "disney image". While not quite the same thing because it's not religious I respect the company and what they are trying to accomplish, and I would not want to hinder that vision, but rather promote it through my employment, as I would hope all castmembers would.

Fosse76
A)you can wear anything or have anything under your clothes so there would be no problem with the cross, but I'd make the same claims to any religion that if it disturbs the "look" or "atmosphere" then they are not respecting the Disney company and what they are trying to provide (if you want to berate me and say that then the Disney company is racist and should ammend their ways... no one is forcing you to go to WDW/DL/ect. By going you are supporting them. If you don't agree with their business don't go).
B) Part of Disney is the production aspect. No one is saying that anyone can't be anything but rather they would not cast a non-wigged brunnete as Cinderella nor would I be able to find employment in some areas of the parks because I'm a red headed female.

 

[WDW 3]

I side with Disney on this. He applied for and accepted a position with a company that has long had strict appearance standards. Goes all the way back to Walt himself, creating utilidors because Walt Disney World is all about being immersed in the theme.

 

[imagineer boy]

How did a racist like you ever get out of scool? It doesn't matter where in the park he would work. The law clearly states that Disney is required to accomodate his religious beliefs unless they have a legitimate public interest not to. "Cowboys are white" is NOT a legitimate public interest, no matter how much you attempt to argue the point with me.

Wow. The racists have really come out. Disneyland's policies were discriminatory then as well. Walt Disney's clean-cut policy was a direct result of his own discrimination (which is well-documented). Disneyland also didn't permit blacks to even enter the park, so what has been done in the past is not relevant. And which subsequently was ruled unconstitutional. What is relevant is current law. Where, in your infinite wisdom, can you prove to me that muslims with beards cannot be astronauts, or river guides, or ranchers? Just because they don't meet your stereotypical expectations doesn't make you right. BUt I won't argue that. I will argue the law. If Disney cannot justify it's policy, then they will have to change it.

Oh dear, here comes the racist accusations.:lol: You're only making yourself lose credibility when you do that you know.

I swear, you PC thought police are around every corner so at the first sign of any Politically-incorrect thought or jesture you have to "rehabilitate" them with some pills.

And Disney is not discriminating against his religion in any way shape or form, just the fact that he wears a turban and has a beard.

 

[InsideOtherPark]

Growing a beard is not a mandatory part of the muslim faith. It might be encouraged but its not mandatory.

From my personal stand point I have no problem with any facial hair as long as it well kept.

Parts of the Disney Company are able to have diffrent types of facial hair while others are not.

I'm 99.999999999% sure that everyone who has any facial hair is told about "The Disney Look" in the hiring process.

 

[krankenstein]

Also, Disney is a privately owned company.

Just wanted to tell you Disney is not a private company, but rather a publicly traded one. It's ticker symbol is DIS.

 

[scpergj]

Oh dear, here comes the racist accusations.:lol: You're only making yourself lose credibility when you do that you know.

I swear, you PC thought police are around every corner so at the first sign of any Politically-incorrect thought or jesture you have to "rehabilitate" them with some pills.

And Disney is not discriminating against his religion in any way shape or form, just the fact that he wears a turban and has a beard.

Imagineer boy

Just remember, when people start throwing out insults and name calling, you have already won the debate.

Also, you are correct...the PC police ARE everywhere. They are so 'tolerant' of everything and every other opinion...except for one that is different from their own!

 

[magic cait ball]

Growing a beard is not a mandatory part of the muslim faith. It might be encouraged but its not mandatory.

From my personal stand point I have no problem with any facial hair as long as it well kept.

Parts of the Disney Company are able to have diffrent types of facial hair while others are not.

I'm 99.999999999% sure that everyone who has any facial hair is told about "The Disney Look" in the hiring process.

But it is part of the Sikh faith. That's like saying that wearing a yarmluke is not a mandatory part of the Jewish faith. Many Jews don't have to, but certain sects do.

I'm torn on this one. Though I am shocked by some of the people here comparing him to people who choose to dress like they're homeless or punky kids with tons of piercings. He's not wearing a turban to make a statement, he's doing it because it's part of his religion. Now that doesn't necessarily mean he's in the clear for working at Disney, but some of the ignorance I've read on this thread is just laughable (note: I said some. many of the comments have been intelligent and thoughtful)

I'm not ready to completely claim that Disney is right though. I think a lot of people need to see it a different way. I keep reading "he can choose not to work for Disney." I'm going to draw an analogy here. Many of us here are probably Christians right? Okay, so let's say that hypothetically, Christians had to have blue hair (ridiculous, I know. but stick with it for my point). Would all of us that chimed in "working for disney is a privilege, he should shave and take off his turban" have the same response in this situation? Maybe this guy always dreamed of working at Disney. Maybe he heard from people like us that it's a great place to work. Maybe some CP raves of working at Disney made him want to work there so badly, as badly as many of us do. Is it fair that it is not an option for him at all, solely because of something his religion requires him to do? How many of you here (many of who I know work or have worked or plan on working at Disney) wouldn't put up a fight in my hypothetical blue haired christian situation?


Also, the few people that claimed it wasn't okay because of 9/11 fear. I call pure BS. As a New Yorker who went to high school in the most diverse county in the nation (Queens), I can let you know that New Yorkers get along fine with our Muslim/Sikh/turbaned neighbors. Get over it, that claim is LAME

 

[KingStefan]

You know, people are debating a great deal in this thread whether it is required for a Muslim man to grow a beard, and how well documented this assertion is, etc., but that's all moot. This man is Sikh, not Muslim. Any talk about whether Muslims can work at NASA or other nonsense like that is misplaced, and detracts from the credibility of the author on other topics. All you have to do is read the posts on the first page to know that he is a Sikh. It's not rocket science.