Star Tours II

[GothMickey]

Yeah, Lord knows his legacy isn't turning out consistently good films...compare "Empire Strikes Back" to "Howard the Duck."

Howard the Duck. I smell a remake in the future.

 

[WDW1974]

For the record, Al is full of you-know-what on this one. My guess is he totally made this story up since not a single person who's been involved with the project would believe this trite. The VAST majority of money for Star Tours 2.0 has already been spent in making the CGI film, the audio, etc. There is no holdup for the Disneyland update, nor is there any holdup for the same update in DHS. Even if, for some insane reason, the update was scrapped for DHS it wouldn't affect DL by any amount whatsoever.

Really?

I know someone who is very inolved in this project. And it is waaaay behind the original timeline. As to WDW affecting DL, I can only say that was the whole point behind ONE DISNEY ... so while I don't know whether this is true, it certainly sounds plausible.

And WDW management IS dragging their heels on this ... if you're truly an 'insider' (and one without an agenda) you'd likely know this.

Lee said the thing has been finished and has been sitting there (referencing the film). This is true. The latest film has been finished for the past couple of months. It has not been finished for years or anything like that, and if I'm not mistaken, we even had a public leak about that when a CGI artist revealed what was being worked on after Indy IV.

The film has been finished and has been for quite some time ... and, frankly, that matters little as they could have gone in and had the attraction ready to install ... yet, they haven't.

Considering the original timeline had the attraction coming online just about now, and the film has been done for a while, it does kinda lend credence to what Al has said, doesn't it?

Baloney. I'm not going to reveal anything here, but the premise is false. And then Al is mistaken in that this is not a new attraction, this is a refurbishment, of which the largest part of the refurbishment is already done. Even if some insane DHS exec didn't like this idea, he would be overridden... and no DHS exec is going to turn down Star Tours 2.0. Does anyone really think that they would put AIE in there and spend that kind of money, but turn down a ST refurb? Good grief.

This isn't a simple refurb. It is akin to a total redo ... you are correct that Rilous Carter (VP of TPFKaTD-MGMS) or someone below him couldn't halt the attraction. But Al Weiss could ... Meg Crofton could ... Erin Wallace could ... and, certainly, Jay Rasulo could.

As to AIE, that attraction was largely constructed with Freemantle money ... which is likely why they did such a great job on it. Disney is great at spending other people's money ... just go to Tokyo to see that.

Al obviously doesn't understand the way WDI works. First of all, most of the money has been spent, and the money that has been spent was on the film. It's done. The remaining money is allocated in the two parks operating budgets and is already scheduled. This money is used to refurbish the attraction buildings, queue lines, and synchronize the simulators... if DHS did want to do a bare-minimum refurb, they could. They don't. But if DHS, once again for some insane reason, decided to pull out (they'd be overridden from the top and its really not even realistic), DL would still refurb the ride and the film would still go in.

Yes. The fact the film is done is why this attraction is even happening. If Disney had to make a decision on doing it today, I think we both know they wouldn't. They aren't spending on anything.

As to the remaining budget having been scheduled ... maybe it has been. But it doesn't change the fact they have been in 'creep mode' with this.
And while you're trying to discredit Al, and not doing a good job, he didn't say the attraction wasn't happening. He said that it was delayed (which it has been) and he is blaming TDO (which I don't know as fact, but sounds very plausible).

If you know more about when we can expect to see this attraction by all means ... let us know. I'd love to know.

I doubt it is as big a deal as say when Shanghai DL will debut and Disney allowed one of their big consultants/Internet personality to 'slip' and let that monkey out.

He's making this stuff up. He's just some guy with a good imagination who probably does get some inside information from time to time. However, when he pulls this anti-WDW PR crap out of nowhere, he needs to be refuted.

No. He isn't ... he has some very good sources. His track record is excellent. Why are you taking him so personally?

This is so stupid. WDI does not "sell" attractions. And what does he think? That WDI has a warehouse of stuff for the attraction they're going to sell to TDL? Good grief.

Actually, for an self-proclaimed 'insider' you seem to lack knowledge of how WDI operates. The parks/resorts do essentially buy attractions from WDI, whether they are the same company or not. Hell, even your example is laughable because it is the polar opposite of how things went in TDL's development ... the OLC visited Glendale and basically picked and chose what they wanted to 'buy' for their park. WDI is like a contractor that comes in and builds what is ordered ...

The film's already done and paid for. Al's just taking you all on a wild goose chase for geese that don't exist.

- WDW Insider

Al -- and no one that I have read here -- isn't denying the film is done ... you need to get off that and move on.

~Still Endor Bound in 2009~

 

[WDW Insider]

Really?

I know someone who is very inolved in this project. And it is waaaay behind the original timeline. As to WDW affecting DL, I can only say that was the whole point behind ONE DISNEY ... so while I don't know whether this is true, it certainly sounds plausible.

And WDW management IS dragging their heels on this ... if you're truly an 'insider' (and one without an agenda) you'd likely know this.

The thing's been in the works for the past decade, so I don't know that it would take someone very involved in the project to know how far it is behind the original concept's targeted refurbishment. WDW management is not dragging any heels on this... some might feel Disney Parks is, but WDW management really wouldn't have much say in this update. It would be akin to Lasseter saying, "hey, we're putting a Toy Story ride in DHS" and some lower level person, like maybe Carter saying, "nah, we're allocating the money in other ways." Heads would roll and TSM would have been put in. You don't fight ST2.0 after the film is finished and can be refurbed for relatively cheap and keep your job. That (and the fact it would be ridiculous) is why nobody that I know has fought it. I won't get into the various delays of the project, but they're not related to WDW management, past or present.

The film has been finished and has been for quite some time ... and, frankly, that matters little as they could have gone in and had the attraction ready to install ... yet, they haven't.

Considering the original timeline had the attraction coming online just about now, and the film has been done for a while, it does kinda lend credence to what Al has said, doesn't it?

The original timeline had it coming out 2006. The ride film has been finished for the past few months, not years.

This isn't a simple refurb. It is akin to a total redo ... you are correct that Rilous Carter (VP of TPFKaTD-MGMS) or someone below him couldn't halt the attraction. But Al Weiss could ... Meg Crofton could ... Erin Wallace could ... and, certainly, Jay Rasulo could.

As to AIE, that attraction was largely constructed with Freemantle money ... which is likely why they did such a great job on it. Disney is great at spending other people's money ... just go to Tokyo to see that.

It is not akin to a total redo. Simulators are updated with new films (money already spent), reprogrammed (relatively cheap) and the already existing ride buildings are updated to whatever degree the budget can allow. I'm not going to discuss the refurbishment plans for the buildings, but its nowhere near what a new attraction would cost.

And when you can change a oft walk-on to an E-Ticket for a franchise that you devote a month of promotions to and which extends your fanbase for relatively cheap money... the Weisses, Croftons, and Wallaces didn't get where they are by being stupid.

Yes. The fact the film is done is why this attraction is even happening. If Disney had to make a decision on doing it today, I think we both know they wouldn't. They aren't spending on anything.

I'm not getting into speculation.

As to the remaining budget having been scheduled ... maybe it has been. But it doesn't change the fact they have been in 'creep mode' with this.
And while you're trying to discredit Al, and not doing a good job, he didn't say the attraction wasn't happening. He said that it was delayed (which it has been) and he is blaming TDO (which I don't know as fact, but sounds very plausible).

Both the DL and DHS attractions are being refurbished according to schedule... no delays beyond the 2006 delay.

If you know more about when we can expect to see this attraction by all means ... let us know. I'd love to know.

You and a lot of other people.

I doubt it is as big a deal as say when Shanghai DL will debut and Disney allowed one of their big consultants/Internet personality to 'slip' and let that monkey out.

I can promise you whatever I say will not be a "slip."

No. He isn't ... he has some very good sources. His track record is excellent. Why are you taking him so personally?

Because he's fabricating negative PR.

Actually, for an self-proclaimed 'insider' you seem to lack knowledge of how WDI operates. The parks/resorts do essentially buy attractions from WDI, whether they are the same company or not. Hell, even your example is laughable because it is the polar opposite of how things went in TDL's development ... the OLC visited Glendale and basically picked and chose what they wanted to 'buy' for their park. WDI is like a contractor that comes in and builds what is ordered ...

Only the Oriental Land Company negotiates on transfer of monies for new attractions. Domestic parks do not purchase attractions, and WDI does not "own" attractions to sell. WDI is given assignments from upper management in concert with local management as a collaborative effort. And this is what is laughable about the idea that selling Star Tours 2.0 to OLC would have any effect on DL - there's nothing to sell. The money's been spent on the film and the film is finished... the money for the building refurbishment and promotion comes out of DL's ledgers. Same thing for DHS. So how OLC would affect either would seem to be the result of sloppy conspiracy making.

Tell your friend I said not to pull a Landis with you. If he/she's been working on the project, he'll/she'll get it.

- WDW Insider

 

[Lee]

Bumping my own post. I'd really like to hear Insider's thoughts here.

if DHS did want to do a bare-minimum refurb, they could. They don't.

Like MK and Space Mountain? Hmmm? Anything to share there?

 

[blackthidot]

As long as its themed after Star Wars they can take 2 more years. The only thing is when the Fat Monster is involved he always messing things up now a days. But Im sure he will have to have Jar Jar Binks, and a bunch of other things that are lame involved.

Fat Monster - George Lucas

 

[WDW1974]

The thing's been in the works for the past decade, so I don't know that it would take someone very involved in the project to know how far it is behind the original concept's targeted refurbishment.

I don't know that you can say it's been in the works for a decade except in the broadest sense. If you're speaking of blue sky concepts and the idea that 'the new movies are coming out, now would be a good time to talk to George about updating' then yeah ... if you're talking about this redo then no.

You keep using the term 'refurbishment' which I find a bit odd as that's something I'd put on par with Small World or even the recent CBJ closure. This is something that's been presented to me (and others) as much more extensive as that. The whole ride 'experience' will be different ... to me, that makes it more 'extensive' than Space Mountain's cleaning and track work.

But maybe we're just playing a semantics game.

WDW management is not dragging any heels on this... some might feel Disney Parks is, but WDW management really wouldn't have much say in this update. It would be akin to Lasseter saying, "hey, we're putting a Toy Story ride in DHS" and some lower level person, like maybe Carter saying, "nah, we're allocating the money in other ways." Heads would roll and TSM would have been put in. You don't fight ST2.0 after the film is finished and can be refurbed for relatively cheap and keep your job. That (and the fact it would be ridiculous) is why nobody that I know has fought it. I won't get into the various delays of the project, but they're not related to WDW management, past or present.

I understand there were 'issues' with LucasFilm as well ... but the bottom line is this should have been finished years ago. It now appears that the idea is to have this open in 2011 as some half-a$$ed approach to fight Harry Potter and/or celebrate the 40th (again, missing the point that TPFKaTD-MGMS isn't 40 ... the MK is).

If you're going to argue that WDW's 'leadership' team is on top of things and is proactive about keeping the Orlando parks fresh and dynamic then I'm forced to question your motives.

WDW is incredibly stale except for DAK, which unfortunately is suffering greatly in the ops dept. under Val Bunting alleged leadership.

I doubt anyone who would be part of WDI would disagree with either of the above points.

The original timeline had it coming out 2006. The ride film has been finished for the past few months, not years.

I haven't disagreed with that point at all. My point was simply that they didn't have to wait for the film to be finished to start work on the attraction ... they opted to do so to extend the window before opening/delay the work.

It is not akin to a total redo. Simulators are updated with new films (money already spent), reprogrammed (relatively cheap) and the already existing ride buildings are updated to whatever degree the budget can allow. I'm not going to discuss the refurbishment plans for the buildings, but its nowhere near what a new attraction would cost.

That's the same tired line that was trotted out when Star Tours debutted in 1987 (at DL) and Body Wars two years later. That this technology was so wonderful because all you have to do is swap out one film for another (this is also the same line trotted out for Soarin ... and the LCI to some degree).

Unless you're saying the in cabin effects (from TDS) and the other plussing isn't happening, which unless they changed things drastically in the past few months we know is, that is significant.

Is this going to cost what a new attraction would? Of course not. But it certainly isn't a simple refurb.

And when you can change a oft walk-on to an E-Ticket for a franchise that you devote a month of promotions to and which extends your fanbase for relatively cheap money... the Weisses, Croftons, and Wallaces didn't get where they are by being stupid.

I admit I don't spend much time at that park, but I thought ST was still fairly popular (i.e. not a walk on).

As to why Al, Meg and Erin got where they are, if you're going to suggest it was because of their superior intellect I'm gonna assume you're just a Disney plant from the new Social Media division trying to convince the fanbois that all is magical at WDW.

I'm not getting into speculation.

C'mon ... this is a Disney fan site and the board is for NEWS AND RUMORS ... if you aren't going to speculate then why bother?

I can promise you whatever I say will not be a "slip."

And I can promise you that when Lee MacDonald said Shanghai DL would debut in 9/14, he wasn't letting anything slip that the powers at Disney didn't want leaked to the fan community.

He hasn't spoken a word about anything future related at WDW (beyond AIE, which he was intimately involved in and, to his credit admitted) ... and as a longtime Internet reader/poster, I know that means Disney is playing things very close to the proverbial vest.

I am convinced they have no firm plan for their 40th anniversary and beyond because they are so kneejerk fiscally conservative and reactionary.

Because he's fabricating negative PR.

So what? I don't like the guy's 'tude. But I do respect the way he has gotten under the skin of people in Anaheim, Burbank and Glendale. I don't think WDW needs protection from him whether or not he takes shots.

He is just a big fanboi after all.

Only the Oriental Land Company negotiates on transfer of monies for new attractions. Domestic parks do not purchase attractions, and WDI does not "own" attractions to sell. WDI is given assignments from upper management in concert with local management as a collaborative effort. And this is what is laughable about the idea that selling Star Tours 2.0 to OLC would have any effect on DL - there's nothing to sell. The money's been spent on the film and the film is finished... the money for the building refurbishment and promotion comes out of DL's ledgers. Same thing for DHS. So how OLC would affect either would seem to be the result of sloppy conspiracy making.

Again, I don't know if we're playing semantics or what ... but OLC definitely 'buys' attractions ... and as far as I know it is similar with HK and Paris because Disney only owns part of them.

As to how OLC would affect Star Tours, I am not sure except for the fact Disney (thru WDI) would take in funds from OLC if they purchased it. I have no clue how that's spread thru company ledgers anymore than how costs for the attraction are being 'shared' by Anaheim and Orlando.

The whole point of ONE DISNEY is to supposedly spread out costs by doing things like TSMM in multiple locations. That was the whole reason why Mermaid was brought up for MK (and now DLP).

Tell your friend I said not to pull a Landis with you. If he/she's been working on the project, he'll/she'll get it.

- WDW Insider

Hah. I think I know where you may be headed, but I will ...

~Fanbois are magical!~

 

[Foolish1]

Yeah, Lord knows his legacy isn't turning out consistently good films...compare "Empire Strikes Back" to "Howard the Duck."

Sounds like a fair statement. But, I should add, how many film-makers can say they created a masterpiece like ESB in the first place??

 

[DoctorPrius]

Sounds like a fair statement. But, I should add, how many film-makers can say they created a masterpiece like ESB in the first place??

Except that George Lucas did not create ESB

 

[Ausdaddy]

Sounds like a fair statement. But, I should add, how many film-makers can say they created a masterpiece like ESB in the first place??

Irvin Kershner and Lawrence Kasdan (with some nice improv by Harrison) made that film what it was.

 

[jt04]

So what? I don't like the guy's 'tude. But I do respect the way he has gotten under the skin of people in Anaheim, Burbank and Glendale.

And there it is in a nutshell. Now I get it. Now where is that ignore button?

 

[tirian]

Except that George Lucas did not create ESB

Correct. We can thank other people for making ESB a fantastic film, although George did a pretty good job with TLH and ROTJ.

I admit I don't spend much time at that park, but I thought ST was still fairly popular (i.e. not a walk on).

ST is usually a walk-on, but only because it has a very high capacity for a simulator. The attraction has not lost its popularity.

 

[Hummer1676]

^ I would have to disagree. It is a "ride once then skip" ride. If it wasn't as jerky and had some more characters in it, there would be more riders. It was good when it was built, but now it does no justice to the SW franchise. I would hope they expand the area as it would be nice to have a restaurant and bar themed to SW.

 

[TP2000]

I've been on StormRider in Tokyo DisneySeas, and it is a far more advanced concept than Star Tours is.

Al Lutz has said that Star Tours 2 will involve StormRider in-cabin effects plus a new attraction technology that uses random plot twists and in-cabin animatronics that interact with selected audience members. For me, that puts it way beyond simple rehab and film swap.

I'm inclined to believe Al Lutz and his generally excellent track record, as well as a few very respectable insider sources here that have been a part of this community for years. And the info from those sources all seems to point in the direction that the info Al Lutz presented on Tuesday regarding Star Tours 2 is accurate.

That's good enough for me, until I hear otherwise in a Disney press release.

 

[bennyw01]

Bumping my own post. I'd really like to hear Insider's thoughts here.

nice bump /b/rother

 

[GothMickey]

ST is usually a walk-on, but only because it has a very high capacity for a simulator. The attraction has not lost its popularity.

I will agree it is a walk on, but, I will disagree with the popularity. I think it has lost its popularity. My last trip I walked right on. There were no guests waiting to board one of the simulators. And when we were able to board, very few people were on the previous ride.

 

[Fade_to_Blah]

I will agree it is a walk on, but, I will disagree with the popularity. I think it has lost its popularity. My last trip I walked right on. There were no guests waiting to board one of the simulators. And when we were able to board, very few people were on the previous ride.

Really? I go in a relatively down time of November and ST always seems to have a line. Maybe I just get unlucky when I visit the attraction....

 

[CaptainMichael]

Really? I go in a relatively down time of November and ST always seems to have a line. Maybe I just get unlucky when I visit the attraction....

I've found that it depends on the time. Last week, it was a 20-30 minute wait in the morning (11am ish probably because of the crazies who fastpass it). Beyond that, it was a walk on where you could pretty much sit anywhere you wanted to in the cabin.

The whole attraction from queue, to load, to ride, to unload needs serious attention and when management wises up, it will get it. From what I've heard, this has the chance to be my favorite ride in the Studios when it's fixed up.

 

[EPCOTCenterLover]

It was a walk on during our Feb 16 visit.
Tower, RNRC, TSMM, GMR lengthy waits.
Star Tours- piece of cake.

 

[GothMickey]

Really? I go in a relatively down time of November and ST always seems to have a line. Maybe I just get unlucky when I visit the attraction....

Yep. Not one person in the queue line and only 10 or 12 people in my simulator. I was able to stop and take in the queue without any interruption. Not one person came in behind us either.

 

[GothMickey]

I've found that it depends on the time. Last week, it was a 20-30 minute wait in the morning (11am ish probably because of the crazies who fastpass it). Beyond that, it was a walk on where you could pretty much sit anywhere you wanted to in the cabin.

The whole attraction from queue, to load, to ride, to unload needs serious attention and when management wises up, it will get it. From what I've heard, this has the chance to be my favorite ride in the Studios when it's fixed up.

Time of the day may make a difference. And I sure hope that this attraction geets some major TLC. I love Star Wars (isn't it obvious with my avatar?).