Apologies in advance for the very long post touching on many points- as background, I flip flop on how much I like the show (especially the surviving characters) but the story (and especially the mystery elements) are compelling to me and, like a great//terrible book, I find myself thinking about it a lot between episodes.
The long and short of it is that everyone comes from a different perspective. Just because you and some others here find flaws and issues in this show and other Star Wars content doesn't mean that others will agree or even see the same flaws and issues or any at all. That doesn't mean someone isn't being critical, it just means they have a different perspective.
I forget who said it but someone commented on the fact that the writers were obviously trying to make the Jedi seem evil but they were terrible because the Jedi were sympathetic. Why would one assume the writers failed instead of succeeded at teasing out ambiguities in the Jedis and conflicts between their moral (amoral?) code, unfeeling bureaucracy, and their own personal human attachments? Yes, Obi-Wan makes being a detached stoic seem heroic, even cool in ANH, but we learn from Lucas’ own prequels that the Jedi were impervious to a lot of human suffering as they focused on political goals (“peace” and “stability”)—but peace and stability are not good in and of themselves what systems you are preserving. I like that the show explores this theme tangentially. I’ve been saying since Episode 1 (when Jecki comments on Sol’s attachment to Osha) that Sol’s going to end up a Sith because he’s way too attached.
I spent this entire episode asking why it wasn't just a two minute exposition scene with Sol.
Plus having a grown man suddenly get intensely obsessed with basically taking possession of a little girl? That was just... ick... the way that played out.
I thought his attachment to Osha was a sign of his emotional impulsivity (Sith flag), but I don’t think there was anything sketchy about it at all.
I took that as trying to be of a bit of a protective father figure and the desire to have a padawan.
I think the most recent episode did a good job of making it possible to view it either way. You could see Sol as needy/impulsive/selfish but also they’d previously told us that Osha was unhappy on Brendock as part of the witches coven and wanted to leave and be a Jedi. Was Sol having a meltdown or did he have a legitimate premonition that he was supposed to be her Master? Also, I feel like it was an intentional choice to have Mae share the very creepy/disturbing new information about what her mom(s) told her and then Mother Korril was clearly encouraging her to tap into the dark side.
I think critiques about focusing on the multiple POVs about the conflict with the witches and the twins are misguided. It's what the show is about! I get some maybe saw the mae hunting jedi and thought that was how this was going... until the show pivoted in ep3.. but mae hunting jedi isn't what this show really is centered around. Nor is it really Qimir... he's the wheel advancing things... but ultimately this show is about the twins.
I don’t think we know for sure what the show is about yet. There have been some surprising plot developments, and many of the big actors and likable characters died unexpected deaths. A lot of people fell for the misdirection that Mae was actually good and Jedi would turn out to be evil, but the subsequent flashbacks show that Mae was actually willing to hurt Osha, instead of parting with her, as a child. There are still so many unanswered questions— how were the girls created? How does Mae survive and why does Mae assume the Jedi killed Osha? Why did Osha lose the ability to tap the force? How exactly did Indara defeat the coven and did she kill them? Who is Qimir’s master (and/or who trained him)? How will Vernestra and her team spin the massacre they witnessed? Why did the Jedi never mention Mae in the official files about what happened in Brendock? If the twins are so sort of weird vergence miracle, why didn’t Sol try to save both of them and why isn’t Qimir more interested in uniting them both together?
I came out of the episode mostly supporting Sol. I don’t find his actions creepy - they just seem protective to me. In fact I tended to agree with his frustration with Indera just willing to leave the girls there especially when Osha was interested in the Jedi. The thing I dislike about Sol’s actions is why he stabbed and killed the smoke mother. Seemed out of place entirely.
I thought Sol represented compassion and attachment, but his feelings of wanting to save a specific child in a dangerous situation put him at odds with the council who wanted to avoid trouble with the coven (which didn’t make a lot of sense to me). It was Sol’s attachment that led to fear of losing Osha which caused him to strike at the less obviously evil mom. It’s interesting that the (relatively) wise Indara wanted to focus on looking for signs of vergence and seemed indifferent to the fate of the girls, but then by the end of the episode she was willing to lie to the council and everyone to spare Osha’s feelings (or possibly the loss of Sol)? Torbin is also emotional and attached, but he is attached to wanting to be back in comfort in Coruscant. It seems like the audience is suppose to judge some characters for their attachment but the detached characters aren’t very sympathetic either.
That's the thing I thought Sol was in the right with. It's one of the problems I've had with a lot of the storytelling with this show. If a darkside force wielding witch turned into some psycho smoke thing. And the kid was starting to disintegrate, I'd have stabbed her too. Lol. It made little sense because why would she do that if she was letting Osha go? You simply say, I'm giving her the choice if she wants to go with you. Then it's, Osha, would you like to be a Jedi? Great, let's go!
I think it was Mae and she was trying to escape with Mae to safety while leaving Osha to be found by the Jedi, not realizing that Mae had set the place on fire and Osha was trapped…but in the moment he was confused and afraid of the witches and losing Osha. Mother Korrill was clearly willing to kill every single person there before letting Osha leave— the question is why weren’t they aligned? Why did the witches think they needed both kids to survive?
We still don’t know if they were killed by the Jedi (Indara?), if they were knocked out and later killed in a fire or by the friendly neighborhood Sith Lord, or if they somehow lived.
Too many times we've seen this kind of thing. Mae - I'm going to turn myself in to the jedi.
Then tries to kill Sol? What was the point of her telling Qimir she was leaving to turn herself in if she wasn't? The show has so many of these moments. They had a good idea for a story but it's just not executed well in my opinion.
I thought Mae was planning to turn herself in but then found Kelbacca dead and realized she wouldn’t survive if she turned on Qimir.
The split between the sisters is at the core of the story, now infused with some sort of intention on the part of the force (vergence), and a force provided vision of a padawan for Sol. If they get to season 4 having this all clearly laid out will be important.
Episode 7 made it seem like the sisters are far more important to the secrets the show wants to unlock about the SW universe, but I still think there’s a decent chance that one or both of them do not survive to season 2.
The "smoke illusion" as you call it had Sol thinking he was going to be attacked or at the very least her trying to escape with Mae, who Sol confused for Osha, which caused Sol to react and stabbed her mistakenly.
I understand why he acted how he did but I think the show may be foreshadowing his turn to the dark side.
I completely agree. Unless you are committed to ending the story, no matter if it takes 2 or 3 seasons, don't make it. You should have each season have a neat conclusion with some open theeads that you've put out for the series to continue. Then if it's not a success, you aren't leaving a bunch of important stuff unanswered.
I don’t see anyway they can wrap up the multiple major character development plots (twins, Qimir, Sol, Vernestra, Korill) let alone answer the loose threads about the past or the significance of the cortosis planet/mine, in one episode. I think not giving it another season or two to explore its themes and how they are worked into Sith legends would be a shame even though I don’t particularly like the main characters driving the plot. I also think pulling the plug without solving the mysteries would be bad for future SW shows on Disney+ — I personally don’t want to start on new series if there’s a 50/50 chance the major plot questions are never answered.
The biggest take away I've gotten from the show is that the Jedi are more susceptible to their emotions than we've previously been shown. That yes they are flawed and nuanced even if trying to be the idealistic version based on the teachings we've known previously. They aren't gods, they are mortals that fall to the same mortal trappings as others around them, including emotion.
In general, this kind of emotion and attachment is warned (through the original trilogy and the prequels) will lead to the dark side. I’ve been waiting for Sol to turn to the dark side since Jecki pointed out he was unusually attached to Osha in the opening episode.
What George told us about the Jedi:
- Obi-Wan - Goes into hiding.
- Yoda - Goes into hiding. Remind me again, what does fear lead to?
- Luke - emotional mess.
- Anakin - emotional mess.
- Other Jedi - Turn a blind eye to slavery. Become pawns of the state. Become Warlords. Recruit very young children into their cult.
I agree these main characters are mostly consistent with the most famous Jedi in core Lucas cannon. The show seems to be warning against emotion, but I don’t feel that it’s presenting the more stoic Jedi (Indara, Vernestra) in the best light either.
So far, Osha is the only character we’ve seen consistently care about people (freeing guy in prisoner transport, trying to help save other Jedi with Yord) while also remaining fairly detached and stoic—willing to turn her sister in and not giving into fear or hate—but she was trending more like Anakin than Luke when we last saw her in Episode 6.
Or
Jedi see children they think are being held by a cult they know is problematic so they are on edge... and use their 'right' to recruit force sensitive children as the angle to try to free them. In the moment, they think said cult isn't going to let the kids go freely and a fight breaks out.
Your version of the story completely skips the prejudices that already exist between the Jedi and covent... and the established practice of force sensitive persons being brought together.
I think it’s hard to know whether Sol or the council were good v evil (by our standards) since we don’t know what plans the coven had for the girls. We do know that Osha was unhappy there before she ever met a Jedi and the things Mae told the Jedis sounded very disturbing out of context.
Unfortunately I think you are ascribing motives that aren't intended for whatever reason.
The Jedi are suppose to be the peace keepers in the universe, which includes also trying to prevent non-sanctioned force wielders from growing in power. This means they recruit any force sensitive child they find to ensure they remain on the light side of the force. They happen upon a cult, while investigating a supposedly uninhabited planet that is teeming with the force, that from the outside looks like dark side users. Who are at best using the dark side of the force to create life, which isn't suppose to be allowed, and at worst could be trying to sacrifice that created life to gain more power.
+1
What’s interesting to me is that Sol and Torbin had totally different reasons for returning to retrieve the children, I think Sol’s reasons may have been more noble while Torbin just wanted to GTFO of Brendock—but they lead to the same disaster. Meanwhile, Indara (and Kelnacca) were prepared to potentially allow terrible things to happen to Osha and Mae so they could keep doing theoretical force research studies in peace. I would be curious to know who was on the council and what types of motivations and loyalties they held when deciding not to remove the children from the coven.
I will say episodes three and seven needed the strongest direction and had the weakest. I love what they're trying to do here, but right now, without the final piece (episode) of the puzzle, this is my only real complaint.
I'm shocked some are criticizing the acting of the children which I feel has been excellent... though actually with every single thing being criticized, then I guess I'm not shocked at all.
I do think it's possible that we only got the Jedi version and Mae’s might be different— but there’s no way they can wrap up even half the loose threads and go back to retell the events on Brendock again in one episode.
I thought the child actors were fine as long as you aren’t supposed to really like Mae (cruel, controlling and unstable) and Osha (mopey, whiny, vaguely remnant of Luke on Tatooine)— both seem annoying for different reasons. I’m reserving any criticism for the flashback episodes until I see if they somehow manage to address all the open questions and loose threads.
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