SPOILER: The Acolyte -- Disney+ Star Wars -- begins June 5, 2024

[MisterPenguin]

some that seems kinda forced...

I get it!!

 

[flynnibus]

I mean my only eye roll in the last episode was the 'osha! mae! osha! mae!' lines that just kept repeating... I mean come on..

And the reveal of what really happened that night when they were taken.. of course it's going to be late in the show... that's been the suspense all along of 'what really happened?' 'what are the jedi hiding?' 'who knows what really...'

To reveal all that early in the series would just take so much wind out of your sails.. you can't build tension if you just blurt everything out as quickly as possible.

 

[MerlinTheGoat]

How can it end in a cliff hanger with no season 2?

Did they creators of this show actually think it was going to draw enough viewership to justify a second season?

Does anyone at Disney have any common sense ?

The power of many?

Yes.

No.

Based on the massive success of season one, they have to do a season two.

The show runner confirmed the other day that they're setting up the story to have a second season. And she probably has greater knowledge on these internal affairs with season renewals than the public does. In particular, she said much of Qimir's backstory won't be revealed until season 2. Same for the reason why cortosis doesn't exist in the modern era. She also said there will be four to five major mysteries and plots that would be left hanging for the second season to cover.

I think a season 2 is likely. Acolyte is the second worst performing Star Wars live action show. However, according to Nielsen ratings, Acolyte's premier still beat Andor's in terms of total minutes watched by a considerable amount. 208 million for Andor versus 244 million for Acolyte. Even Andor still got a season 2.

Is The Acolyte A Success? Viewership & Rotten Tomatoes Score Explained

How is The Acolyte performing?

screenrant.com

Keep in mind that Andor also had a significantly higher budget than Acolyte. So relatively speaking, Acolyte is probably considered quite a bit more of a success than Andor. Even if it had a drop-off in views during episodes 2-4, I'm guessing Episode 5 was a substantial boost.

 

[MerlinTheGoat]

I mean my only eye roll in the last episode was the 'osha! mae! osha! mae!' lines that just kept repeating... I mean come on..

And the reveal of what really happened that night when they were taken.. of course it's going to be late in the show... that's been the suspense all along of 'what really happened?' 'what are the jedi hiding?' 'who knows what really...'

To reveal all that early in the series would just take so much wind out of your sails.. you can't build tension if you just blurt everything out as quickly as possible.

I am not advocating that they should have revealed all of this early in the series. I am of the opinion that episode 3 shouldn't have existed at all as an entire episode. It's mostly terrible, with most of its important stuff having been retread in episode 7. I advocate they should have cut like 95% of episode 3 entirely and just have its important bits be conveyed through episode 7. Still leaves all of the "twists" for later on, but would snip some of the worst scenes out of the show.

Whatever was important in episode 3 would have been better if they had consolidated it down to a couple of minute long flashback snippets scattered throughout the earlier episodes from the perspective of the adult twins. Just to establish a few things and leave a cliffhanger that would be elaborated upon properly in episode 7. A dragging 30+ minute episode would be streamlined and purged of the crappy filler, with the final payoff and full elaboration being saved for episode 7.

 

[Trauma]

The show runner confirmed the other day that they're setting up the story to have a second season. And she probably has greater knowledge on these internal affairs with season renewals than the public does. In particular, she said much of Qimir's backstory won't be revealed until season 2. Same for the reason why cortosis doesn't exist in the modern era. She also said there will be four to five major mysteries and plots that would be left hanging for the second season to cover.

I think a season 2 is likely. Acolyte is the second worst performing Star Wars live action show. However, according to Nielsen ratings, Acolyte's premier still beat Andor's in terms of total minutes watched by a considerable amount. 208 million for Andor versus 244 million for Acolyte. Even Andor still got a season 2.

Is The Acolyte A Success? Viewership & Rotten Tomatoes Score Explained

How is The Acolyte performing?

screenrant.com

Keep in mind that Andor also had a significantly higher budget than Acolyte. So relatively speaking, Acolyte is probably considered quite a bit more of a success than Andor. Even if it had a drop-off in views during episodes 2-4, I'm guessing Episode 5 was a substantial boost.

That’s a lot of guessing.

Your forgetting that Andor was a show that critics and audiences both enjoyed.

Acolyte not so much.

 

[flynnibus]

I am not advocating that they should have revealed all of this early in the series. I am of the opinion that episode 3 shouldn't have existed at all as an entire episode. It's mostly terrible, with most of its important stuff having been retread in episode 7.

Ep7 has no weight without what was done in Ep3. Ep3 sets up all the open ended questions for the audience about what really happened..

I don't agree at all with 'its mostly terrible'. It gives us all the insight and screentime for the nightsisters... it shows the urgency and conflict within the group to make the twins SIGNIFICANT.

To argue the two epi should be merged is just as bad as saying to do it all at the start. Without the span of time between the first perspective revealed in ep3... the new perspective added in ep7 is much weaker.

I mean.. who are Osha and Mae but just some orphans with some force affinity without those episodes??

 

[MerlinTheGoat]

That’s a lot of guessing.

Your forgetting that Andor was a show that critics and audiences both enjoyed.

Acolyte not so much.

None of what I said is guesswork, it's hard factual data. Disney does not care about critic and audience reception. They care about views and profit. I don't personally think this is a good thing or should be used as a measure for whether a series should be continued, but it is the reality of how things work. It is an objective fact that the series is financially outperforming Andor.

It's also not guessing to say that the series received a huge popularity boost in Episode 5. Even some of the most hardcore haters came together to enjoy it.

 

[MerlinTheGoat]

Ep7 has no weight without what was done in Ep3. Ep3 sets up all the open ended questions for the audience about what really happened..

I don't agree at all with 'its mostly terrible'. It gives us all the insight and screentime for the nightsisters... it shows the urgency and conflict within the group to make the twins SIGNIFICANT.

To argue the two epi should be merged is just as bad as saying to do it all at the start. Without the span of time between the first perspective revealed in ep3... the new perspective added in ep7 is much weaker.

I mean.. who are Osha and Mae but just some orphans with some force affinity without those episodes??

Almost no one likes Ep3 dude. Even fans of the show generally hate it and consider it some of the worst content in Disney canon. I was one of the more open minded about this series and didn't mind the first two episodes, but even I think Ep3 is awful. You're one of the only people i've seen who likes it. Your opinion of course and you're entitled to it, but lets not pretend that many others will agree with you.

Ep3 would need to be completely rethought from the ground up to work as a full episode. As it is, it's a plodding and cringe inducing mess. There are a couple of scenes that are important that i'd advocate keeping in some heavily edited down format in order to properly set up Ep7. But as they stand, they aren't worth wasting an entire full 30+ minute episode on. Again not without a complete rewrite.

As they stand right now, the entire episode should have been edited down to maybe 5 minutes at most, with those minutes spread out and conveyed as flashbacks across the first 3 episodes prior to the battle with Qimir. Then leave the important revelations for Ep7 (which in such a scenario with an episode missing would instead become Ep6 I suppose).

 

[Disney Irish]

I mean my only eye roll in the last episode was the 'osha! mae! osha! mae!' lines that just kept repeating... I mean come on..

And the reveal of what really happened that night when they were taken.. of course it's going to be late in the show... that's been the suspense all along of 'what really happened?' 'what are the jedi hiding?' 'who knows what really...'

To reveal all that early in the series would just take so much wind out of your sails.. you can't build tension if you just blurt everything out as quickly as possible.

I think some people forget, its about the journey not the destination. If you just skip all the details to get to the end as fast as possible there is no payoff.

 

[DKampy]

That’s a lot of guessing.

Your forgetting that Andor was a show that critics and audiences both enjoyed.

Acolyte not so much.

82% critics score on rotten tomatoes… and it’s tough to take the audience score seriously… when there was a decent portion rooting for it to fail before it began… in real life I have heard just as many complaints about Andor(It’s boring)….. I disagreed… Andor was my favorite of the live action Star Wars

 

[Disney Irish]

82% critics score on rotten tomatoes… and it’s tough to take the audience score seriously… when there was a decent portion rooting for it to fail before it began… in real life I have heard just as many complaints about Andor(It’s boring)….. I disagreed… Andor was my favorite of the live action Star Wars

If you actually look at Metacritic for audience scores, its actually more balanced, and puts the show at average -

So its not are dire as the RT score makes it look.

 

[flynnibus]

Almost no one likes Ep3 dude. Even fans of the show generally hate it and consider it some of the worst content in Disney canon. I was one of the more open minded about this series and didn't mind the first two episodes, but even I think Ep3 is awful. You're one of the only people i've seen who likes it. Your opinion of course and you're entitled to it, but lets not pretend that many others will agree with you.

Where did I say I liked it? It serves a significant purpose.. and your 'fix' is far far worse. Considering the amount of complaining about story and value... I find it amusing the better alternatives being proposed here are to simply GUT the very structure that builds suspense, character, and exposition in the show.

I mean at the very basics... we have a show that is about two 'very special' twins... and you're basically arguing we shouldn't have a episode dedicated to who they are and where they came from? Or even spend time on the VERY CONFLICT that torments 3/4s of the main cast???

If 'fans of the show' don't get that.. then I think some 'fans' are far less competent then they think.

As they stand right now, the entire episode should have been edited down to maybe 5 minutes at most, with those minutes spread out and conveyed as flashbacks across the first 3 episodes prior to the battle with Qimir. Then leave the important revelations for Ep7 (which in such a scenario with an episode missing would instead become Ep6 I suppose).

So you'd rather have a show about Osha as some rando... that no one understands... and Jedi without any internal conflict or past tormenting them.

For things that are the very core of the drama in the show... I have no idea why you'd delegate all that to just a few clips here and there. You'd have a story that transpires that no one cares about except seeing what happens in the present without an rationale to explain the behavior you see.

 

[MerlinTheGoat]

I think some people forget, its about the journey not the destination. If you just skip all the details to get to the end as fast as possible there is no payoff.

The "journey" with regards to the buildup of Osha and Mae has sucked and been a huge failure. I've held a more moderate opinion on this series than some other people have, but even I think they're bad uninteresting poorly written characters with a boring and stupid backstory. And for whatever it's worth, I have found this to be a common opinion from other more even minded people as well. Not just haters.

The destination in this instance has been the only bit of intrigue so far. And it has been in spite of the journey, not because of it. That's why I advocate trimming down the majority of Ep3, it would be far better if heavily consolidated and spread out. If anything, the journey has actually made the destination less interesting. But the destination at least led to a couple of fun lightsaber sequences and a focus on the more interesting and better acted/written jedi characters.

I am again infinitely more interesting in Qimir and his backstory than Osha and Mae. His buildup wasn't even particularly fleshed out (everyone saw that twist coming), and we know pretty much nothing about him. But the journey to figuring out what his deal is has been vastly more intriguing than the twins' journey.

Where did I say I liked it? It serves a significant purpose.. and your 'fix' is far far worse. Considering the amount of complaining about story and value... I find it amusing the better alternatives being proposed here are to simply GUT the very structure that builds suspense, character, and exposition in the show.

I mean at the very basics... we have a show that is about two 'very special' twins... and you're basically arguing we shouldn't have a episode dedicated to who they are and where they came from? Or even spend time on the VERY CONFLICT that torments 3/4s of the main cast???

If 'fans of the show' don't get that.. then I think some 'fans' are far less competent then they think.



So you'd rather have a show about Osha as some rando... that no one understands... and Jedi without any internal conflict or past tormenting them.

For things that are the very core of the drama in the show... I have no idea why you'd delegate all that to just a few clips here and there. You'd have a story that transpires that no one cares about except seeing what happens in the present without an rationale to explain the behavior you see.

Ep3 did not provide an acceptable or interesting backstory for the twins. It was a lot of plodding nothing that doesn't build intrigue and makes the main characters more annoying and unlikeable. Hence why I said that the important parts can easily be consolidated down to 5 minutes or less and be more tolerable. And in the absense of a better backstory, it would be far better too just convey this through smaller incremental flashbacks in the other episodes. Or added to Ep7.

I would indeed rather have Osha and Mae's backstory be unknown or kept vague than what we were given. As it stands, Ep3 actively harms the rest of the series and IMO harms Ep7. Mae in particular was much more interesting to me in the first two episodes when we knew nothing about her past. And I actually do think Ep7 works better without Ep3's stupidity.

Suspense and drama was already set up in episodes 1 and 2, and it was more interesting when we knew far less about Osha and Mae's past. I don't really even care whether they cut Ep3 and consolidate a couple minutes of it into Ep7 or do the flashback thing, that's how poorly I think of like 95% of Ep3. The series would indeed have been much better without it, and nearly nothing of value would be lost.

 

[Phroobar]

Based on the massive success of season one, they have to do a season two.

 

[Disney Irish]

The "journey" with regards to the buildup of Osha and Mae has sucked and been a huge failure. I've held a more moderate opinion on this series than some other people have, but even I think they're bad uninteresting poorly written characters with a boring and stupid backstory. And for whatever it's worth, I have found this to be a common opinion from other more even minded people as well. Not just haters.

The destination in this instance has been the only bit of intrigue so far. And it has been in spite of the journey, not because of it. That's why I advocate trimming down the majority of Ep3, it would be far better if heavily consolidated and spread out. If anything, the journey has actually made the destination less interesting. But the destination at least led to a couple of fun lightsaber sequences and a focus on the more interesting and better acted/written jedi characters.

I am again infinitely more interesting in Qimir and his backstory than Osha and Mae. His buildup wasn't even particularly fleshed out (everyone saw that twist coming), and we know pretty much nothing about him. But the journey to figuring out what his deal is has been vastly more intriguing than the twins' journey.


Ep3 did not provide an acceptable or interesting backstory for the twins. It was a lot of plodding nothing that doesn't build intrigue and makes the main characters more annoying and unlikeable. Hence why I said that the important parts can easily be consolidated down to 5 minutes or less and be more tolerable. And in the absense of a better backstory, it would be far better too just convey this through smaller incremental flashbacks in the other episodes. Or added to Ep7.

I would indeed rather have Osha and Mae's backstory be unknown or kept vague than what we were given. As it stands, Ep3 actively harms the rest of the series and IMO harms Ep7. Mae in particular was much more interesting to me in the first two episodes when we knew nothing about her past. And I actually do think Ep7 works better without Ep3's stupidity.

Suspense and drama was already set up in episodes 1 and 2, and it was more interesting when we knew far less about Osha and Mae's past. I don't really even care whether they cut Ep3 and consolidate a couple minutes of it into Ep7 or do the flashback thing, that's how poorly I think of like 95% of Ep3. The series would indeed have been much better without it, and nearly nothing of value would be lost.

To me I'm interested in the journey of all these characters, especially the backstory for the twins. As I've said before in this thread I don't need wall-to-wall action packed episodes in my Star Wars shows, I actually like exposition episodes. Headland, as you've indicated in a previous post, intended to have more revealed in Season 2. So I'm fine with the way the story is being layout and acted.

I get it hasn't worked for you, as well as others. But its worked for me. So we just see it differently.

 

[flynnibus]

I am again infinitely more interesting in Qimir and his backstory than Osha and Mae. His buildup wasn't even particularly fleshed out (everyone saw that twist coming), and we know pretty much nothing about him. But the journey to figuring out what his deal is has been vastly more intriguing than the twins' journey.

I would indeed rather have Osha and Mae's backstory be unknown or kept vague than what we were given. As it stands, Ep3 actively harms the rest of the series and IMO harms Ep7. Mae in particular was much more interesting to me in the first two episodes when we knew nothing about her past. And I actually do think Ep7 works better without Ep3's stupidity.

Suspense and drama was already set up in episodes 1 and 2, and it was more interesting when we knew far less about Osha and Mae's past.

The trend I see here is you are attracted to the powerful sith.. and what story maybe behind a sith lord. Aka drawn to the power/action side of characters and less interested in what the bulk of this season is about. The significance of the twins and the human faults of the Jedi characters.

The dialog of ep7 about the vergence and the obfuscated origin of the twins from ep3 and 7 is essential to establishing why twins are significant and not just some Finn character caught up in the cross-fire of the galaxy.

To jettison all of that setup would be to demote the twins to Finn or Rose... just some randos dealing with their own baggage trying to make it through life in the galaxy that happen to stumble into a significant event we are following. That's not what these characters are - they are unique and significant to the paths of these different groups because of their uniqueness.

I get you may not have bought into caring for these characters... but I think you are glossing over the actual bigger plot while you focus on what is sexy to you.

 

[DKampy]

To me I'm interested in the journey of all these characters, especially the backstory for the twins. As I've said before in this thread I don't need wall-to-wall action packed episodes in my Star Wars shows, I actually like exposition episodes. Headland, as you've indicated in a previous post, intended to have more revealed in Season 2. So I'm fine with the way the story is being layout and acted.

I get it hasn't worked for you, as well as others. But its worked for me. So we just see it differently.

I also have not minded the way the story has played out….I have always liked slow build ups through….I feel as some expect too much wall to wall action… I actually thought this episode was interesting… there were some points they were not ready to divulge yet as it is a mystery… I saw it as episode 3 was Osha/Mae’s point of view and last nights was the 4 Jedi’s point of view

 

[Disney Irish]

I also have not minded the way the story has played out….I have always liked slow build ups through….I feel as some expect too much wall to wall action… I actually thought this episode was interesting… there were some points they were not ready to divulge yet as it is a mystery… I saw it as episode 3 was Osha/Mae’s point of view and last nights was the 4 Jedi’s point of view

Exactly, I said after the debut of the show they were doing an homage to Kurosawa's Rashomon multi-point-of-view story, and that is exactly what they've done the whole season.

 

[erasure fan1]

And the reveal of what really happened that night when they were taken.. of course it's going to be late in the show... that's been the suspense all along of 'what really happened?' 'what are the jedi hiding?' 'who knows what really...'

It's not the late in the show that's bothersome. It's the poor execution of it. Because of episode 3, this episode was a wasted episode because of the way it was constructed. It's not about what they were trying to do, it's the way they did it.

I think some people forget, its about the journey not the destination. If you just skip all the details to get to the end as fast as possible there is no payoff.

No one wants to skip the details. They just want the details presented in a logical way that makes sense. This show has struggled with that the entire season. There's a good story in there, it's just presented in a very amateur way. Too many head scratch moments, poorly paced episodes, too much wasted time relative to running time. There's also no payoff if you don't spend your time wisely and you have to rush through the ending.

in real life I have heard just as many complaints about Andor(It’s boring)….. I disagreed… Andor was my favorite of the live action Star Wars

That is correct. I personally liked it a lot, but I can say it's no wonder it didn't get watched. And the big difference between Andor and Acolyte is Andor is better in every aspect. Cinematography, dialogue, acting, how well the show is put together. The one thing they do the same is both can be very boring.

And for whatever it's worth, I have found this to be a common opinion from other more even minded people as well. Not just haters.

I'd say I've been very open minded about this show. And I agree, the journey has been executed in very amateurish fashion. People can enjoy the show, but they have to see how absolutely flawed the show is.

Exactly, I said after the debut of the show they were doing an homage to Kurosawa's Rashomon multi-point-of-view story, and that is exactly what they've done the whole season.

Sure that's what they've done. They just haven't done it well in my opinion. The multiple viewpoint story is a fine storytelling technique. The big issue I see is how much they actually rehashed. So much of last episode you didn't need to see again. And they didn't even reveal all that happened. So we're now going to need another flashback or exposition dump to get it. The last episode should be the climax of the show, we don't have the luxury of spreading this out. And like I said earlier, the shows been late 20 and early 30 min episodes. It's doubtful we get a finale that gives enough time to close this out properly.

 

[Disney Irish]

It's not the late in the show that's bothersome. It's the poor execution of it. Because of episode 3, this episode was a wasted episode because of the way it was constructed. It's not about what they were trying to do, it's the way they did it.

No one wants to skip the details. They just want the details presented in a logical way that makes sense. This show has struggled with that the entire season. There's a good story in there, it's just presented in a very amateur way. Too many head scratch moments, poorly paced episodes, too much wasted time relative to running time. There's also no payoff if you don't spend your time wisely and you have to rush through the ending.

That is correct. I personally liked it a lot, but I can say it's no wonder it didn't get watched. And the big difference between Andor and Acolyte is Andor is better in every aspect. Cinematography, dialogue, acting, how well the show is put together. The one thing they do the same is both can be very boring.

I'd say I've been very open minded about this show. And I agree, the journey has been executed in very amateurish fashion. People can enjoy the show, but they have to see how absolutely flawed the show is.

Sure that's what they've done. They just haven't done it well in my opinion. The multiple viewpoint story is a fine storytelling technique. The big issue I see is how much they actually rehashed. So much of last episode you didn't need to see again. And they didn't even reveal all that happened. So we're now going to need another flashback or exposition dump to get it. The last episode should be the climax of the show, we don't have the luxury of spreading this out. And like I said earlier, the shows been late 20 and early 30 min episodes. It's doubtful we get a finale that gives enough time to close this out properly.

I accept that people don't like how the show is presented and how the story is being told. I acknowledge that the show could be better, but that doesn't mean it can't be enjoyed as is.

Personally I like the show and what they are doing with it, as I've said many times in this thread. I think that is something that some have a hard time accepting, that there are those that like the show for what it is.