SPOILER: The Acolyte -- Disney+ Star Wars -- begins June 5, 2024

[erasure fan1]

Because you've been rejecting the show's story the entire time.

No, I've been rejecting how the story has been told. You just don't want to hear legitimate criticism of the show. I've said numerous times, there's a good story in there. It's just been told poorly in my opinion.

That the image of the Jedi as this pure, selfless, white knight of the galaxy isn't as true as they would leave you to believe and there are factions in the republic that see it as a front...

That's fine, but again, they haven't done a good job telling it. If it's worked for you, great. But this show has landed with a fairly unanimous thud. You can defend it, that's fine. I defended prince of Persia and Solo, heck, I even stick up for the prequels.But I'm not going to pretend the problems people have with them aren't real. At least I can say I liked something while admitting the problems.

The lack of engagement in this thread should tell you all you need to know about how people feel about the show. I've been extremely open minded with it. I've watched every episode at release. I stuck with it untill the end. It has had a lot of questionable choices in my opinion and a whole lot of others opinion as well.

 

[flynnibus]

That's fine, but again, they haven't done a good job telling it. If it's worked for you, great. But this show has landed with a fairly unanimous thud. You can defend it, that's fine. I defended prince of Persia and Solo, heck, I even stick up for the prequels.But I'm not going to pretend the problems people have with them aren't real. At least I can say I liked something while admitting the problems.

I'm not defending it.. I'm countering your critique that basically is calling it failing to be the show YOU think it should be.. instead of the show it was trying to be. You think it should have been the action hunt we saw in ep1 and 2... that's not the show or story they were telling. It's like complaining that a love story movie isn't more of an action film. You don't have to like a love story... but critique that it's a bad action movie when it never tried to be one is dumb.

The lack of engagement in this thread should tell you all you need to know about how people feel about the show.

Largely I see an echo chamber of about 3-4 posters beating the same drum. Repetition doesn't mean its convincing.

If you were actually critical of the story choices or character choices... I'd be more convinced. Instead we get non-sense like arguing that the main movers of the plot should be thrown away because you wanting more of something else... not even central to advancing the story being told. Sorry... not convinced.

 

[flynnibus]

My comments about the finale...

What on earth is the stupid tracker doing and why do people tolerate his randomness. They act like he's some free spirit that shows up and you take advantage of if you can.. instead of an actual asset you keep or a team member. They don't make clear if it's like a dog... or team member. Why does he randomly stick up for mae in the pursuit?

I wish they were more clear on what Vernestra's role really is... earlier it was setup she's more like some Division head.. even like Internal Affairs... yet her she gets to claim shes speaking on behalf of the HC... and we never see any internal tit for tat between her and the HC itself. Is she completely rogue? Where is the HC in this mess? (and no, the final scene with yoda doesn't conclude this for me)

I did't like Osha choke holding Sol to the end. Too abrupt a shift.. while Mae went to mercy... I mean I know the trope they were playing here, but felt contrived and unnatural.

The helmet seems to really focus a force user... yet the stranger voluntarily takes it off mid-fight? meh

Why are all the secondary Jedi Knights played as pretty dorky? Immature, inexperienced even. The hair bobs don't help with that either...

The saber fight sequences certainly take the genre into new places and heights. Tho it probably was a bit too much Matrix'ry at times.

The story line of the self-preservation going on in the Jedi ranks is a side we've not seen in the SW films before so it's cool they are taking further and exploring. I see it like some of the lines in the Bad Batch series... it takes the stories into more grit and realism of humans... instead of pure fantasy.

It was good to finally see a space chase sequence... tho I wasn't all that into it.

I'm not a fan at all of the 'wipe the memory' gimmick.

 

[erasure fan1]

I'm not defending it.. I'm countering your critique that basically is calling it failing to be the show YOU think it should be.. instead of the show it was trying to be. You think it should have been the action hunt we saw in ep1 and 2... that's not the show or story they were telling. It's like complaining that a love story movie isn't more of an action film. You don't have to like a love story... but critique that it's a bad action movie when it never tried to be one is dumb.


Largely I see an echo chamber of about 3-4 posters beating the same drum. Repetition doesn't mean it's convincing.

Sorry but you are 100% defending it. Obviously you think I have some hidden agenda, that's fine, you're in good company on this site. But since what I've said is so wrong, what are these amazing storytelling points? Since of course you wouldn't answer last time. And saying it could use more action like the Sol/Qimere fight in no way means I want a pure action show.

Yea, it wasn't the show I hoped it would be. What I see is a lot of people giving valid issues with the show and the same group trying to deny the issues.

If you were actually critical of the story choices or character choices... I'd be more convinced. Instead we get non-sense like arguing that the main movers of the plot should be thrown away because you wanting more of something else...

Lol, that's exactly what I've done. How is saying that making Sol the bad guy when they clearly show he did what he did because, dark side force witch turns into smoke monster and starts to disintegrate kid. Or ep7 would have been better if they relegated the flashback to the new information that we didn't see in ep3 and focus the rest of the episode on moving some of the other things forward. Instead of giving us half an episode that we've already seen? Or how with extremely short episodes they spent too much time with exposition that didn't really move the here and now story along.

 

[flynnibus]

Sorry but you are 100% defending it. Obviously you think I have some hidden agenda, that's fine, you're in good company on this site. But since what I've said is so wrong, what are these amazing storytelling points?

I do not need to provide any 'amazing storytelling points' of my own to counter your critique. Dunno what logic you get that from - but that's not now it works. This is not you saying 'bad' and me saying 'good'.

Yea, it wasn't the show I hoped it would be. What I see is a lot of people giving valid issues with the show and the same group trying to deny the issues.

and I'll say it for the last time.. most of the 'issues' you bring up are not valid issues. They are complaints that the show isn't something else the show isn't trying to be.

Lol, that's exactly what I've done. How is saying that making Sol the bad guy when they clearly show he did what he did because, dark side force witch turns into smoke monster and starts to disintegrate kid.

What they showed was he made a rash, fatal decision, without really knowing her motives or even what she was doing. A decision that is conflicted and right or wrong is debatable... but one that was fatal and unreversible all the same. Which is why deadly force is not rush into in the first place.

It's also a decision that is decisively anti-Jedi. Is he the 'bad guy'? I don't know.. but clearly he and others made rushed decisions that had fatal and disruptive consequences. I think the whole sequence is setup to be shown as rushed and a mistake. By Sol's insistence on action now, disregarding the patience path, and by their use of force.

Or ep7 would have been better if they relegated the flashback to the new information that we didn't see in ep3 and focus the rest of the episode on moving some of the other things forward. Instead of giving us half an episode that we've already seen? Or how with extremely short episodes they spent too much time with exposition that didn't really move the here and now story along.

That's your complaint, but your reasoning is because you don't care about losing that part of the story... because you wanted a different story than what the show was focusing on. And that's my point... you yearn for a different story focus... not that you are in fact critiquing the story or directing of the story they actually told.

 

[erasure fan1]

I do not need to provide any 'amazing storytelling points' of my own to counter your critique. Dunno what logic you get that from - but that's not now it works. This is not you saying 'bad' and me saying 'good'.

Of course not. That's one of the weakest responses you can give.

and I'll say it for the last time.. most of the 'issues' you bring up are not valid issues. They are complaints that the show isn't something else the show isn't trying to be

It's not trying to be a good show? Than what's it trying to be? It seems to be trying to set up the next season at the expense of the one we were in.

What they showed was he made a rash, fatal decision, without really knowing her motives or even what she was doing. A decision that is conflicted and right or wrong is debatable.

You realize that's your opinion, just like what I said is mine right? What they showed was an evil witch threatening the jedi and a child. He didn't know her motives? We agree! She didn't give them till after the fact. How about you lead with with your intent. It's lazy writing in my opinion to try and frame the Jedi as bad. Just a question, what happens if you get pulled over and threaten the officer with violence? Answer, you're probably getting shot.

That's your complaint, but your reasoning is because you don't care about losing that part of the story...

Ok, how am I losing anything? They literally reused the footage from the earlier episode. It's not lost because, wait for it.......... I've already seen it! I'm not really sure where the hot take is. Wait, is it because I wanted more information on questions already out there instead of information we have already seen? Nah, that'd be ridiculous. They have plenty of time to stretch things out with the huge run time of 25/27min an episode.

 

[BrianLo]

The lack of engagement in this thread

This thread (and the other one) has more engagement than almost all other D+ series.

Maybe not positive engagement, but there is a heck of a lot of engagement.

 

[erasure fan1]

This thread (and the other one) has more engagement than almost all other D+ series.

Maybe not positive engagement, but there is a heck of a lot of engagement.

Congratulations Acolyte, you're the fastest sloth? I mean that's really not a very high bar. That was sort of the point. This show had much bigger expectations in my opinion. Of all the D+ shows outside of Mando, this was the one I had the most hope for.

 

[Disney Irish]

You realize that's your opinion, just like what I said is mine right? What they showed was an evil witch threatening the jedi and a child. He didn't know her motives? We agree! She didn't give them till after the fact. How about you lead with with your intent. It's lazy writing in my opinion to try and frame the Jedi as bad. Just a question, what happens if you get pulled over and threaten the officer with violence? Answer, you're probably getting shot.

How is that lazy writing if the idea is to show a more humanistic side to both the witches and the Jedi? Intentions aren't always known at the time of conflict, not in real life and certainly not in storytelling. And yes you're right if you threaten an officer with violence you're likely to get shot, this is pretty much known the world over and yet it happens all the time. And certainly has happened in SW before.

Ok, how am I losing anything? They literally reused the footage from the earlier episode. It's not lost because, wait for it.......... I've already seen it! I'm not really sure where the hot take is. Wait, is it because I wanted more information on questions already out there instead of information we have already seen? Nah, that'd be ridiculous. They have plenty of time to stretch things out with the huge run time of 25/27min an episode.

The idea is not that you've seen it before, its that you haven't seen it from this perspective. So there is newer details being given even if you've seen parts of it before. But I get it, you don't think this was a good use of that storytelling device. I think it worked for what they were trying to do, tell a multi-view-point story.

 

[MarvelCharacterNerd]

The conclusion solidified that creepy possessive impression of Sol as a bad guy, so that didn't change my opinion.

And I don't think the show is great, but I'd tune into a second season just for Manny Jacinto because he's been compelling in all his scenes at least.

 

[Tha Realest]

I don’t think there’s going to be a second season.

Even some of the staunchest defenders are scratching their heads at that finale, and the haters seem pretty ambivalent about the whole thing by now.

 

[C33Mom]

I’ll keep watching (if given the opportunity) because I’m curious about Vern/Qimir and Yoda/Plagueis but I am bummed that they killed off all the likeable characters (to me)…but more than anything, I’m annoyed that after showing us that Mae was totally obsessed with her sister (self?) from the time they were kids such that she was actually willing to set their home on fire and potentially kill Osha rather than lose her, suddenly at the end Mae and Osha are like “let’s just go our separate ways, eh?” The mind wipe didn’t make a lot of sense, and why would either Osha or Mae expect the Jedi to be good to Mae (who had actually recently killed at least 2 Jedi).

Osha honestly seemed like the least likely to become a Sith— she turned down opportunities to kill, she seemed loyal and dutiful, even rescued the dude in the prisoner transport at risk to her own life…then they just tell us at the end (without showing or hinting) that she was too angry at Mae to become a Jedi and suddenly she’s killing off Sol without even trying to get a full explanation. I had been waiting for Sol to turn all show long because he’s way too emotional and attached to people, but he died before he had the chance. I don’t think Sol really did anything evil or indefensible on Brendok though he failed to live by the Jedi code and got attached and emotional it really wasn’t until the coverup where I think Osha has a real reason to hate him… I honestly don’t think the show went far enough to make most of us more sympathetic to Mae and the coven than we were to Sol and the Jedi, if that is what they wanted to do.

I didn’t really enjoy watching most episodes or the finale—but it absolutely drew me in, I think the many loose ends are interesting and I hope we get more content set in this time period even if it’s not exactly tailored to my preferences.

 

[erasure fan1]

How is that lazy writing if the idea is to show a more humanistic side to both the witches and the Jedi?

I wouldn't really say it was a humanistic side for the witches. Again, what she did would have turned anyone against her. Just because she says as she's dieing, "I was going to let her go", doesn't humanize her. The only thing I thought was, how dumb are you? If she says I'm going to let her go, none of this happens. That's why it's lazy, it's just not well thought out. Again, I don't have an issue with what they were trying to do, only how they did it.

The idea is not that you've seen it before, its that you haven't seen it from this perspective. So there is newer details being given even if you've seen parts of it before. But I get it, you don't think this was a good use of that storytelling device.

I don't think it's a good use of that story device in a show with limited episodes and limited run time per episode. Especially since a bunch of it wasn't actually a new perspective. Look at how the show ended. Almost nothing was resolved and then they added in a heap of new questions. Reusing so much footage, that's just the same thing we have seen, just from maybe a different camera angle. Wasn't a good use of the time they had. The scenes with actual new perspective, great, I'm not advocating for those to go away, I never did. What if instead of seeing the exact same thing we've already seen. We see how Mae survived and who helped her, or how she became involved with Qimere, things like that.

 

[Mike S]

I’m happy I went with my instincts and just listened to reviews. If I want to watch a story about a Jedi conspiracy there’s 2 story arcs in Clone Wars that come to mind that have much more coherent plots and much better writing.

 

[mf1972]

The conclusion solidified that creepy possessive impression of Sol as a bad guy, so that didn't change my opinion.

And I don't think the show is great, but I'd tune into a second season just for Manny Jacinto because he's been compelling in all his scenes at least.

he was very funny in the good place

 

[Disney Irish]

I wouldn't really say it was a humanistic side for the witches. Again, what she did would have turned anyone against her. Just because she says as she's dieing, "I was going to let her go", doesn't humanize her. The only thing I thought was, how dumb are you? If she says I'm going to let her go, none of this happens. That's why it's lazy, it's just not well thought out. Again, I don't have an issue with what they were trying to do, only how they did it.

Except people are reactionary in such situations, even if its against our own self preservation, especially when it comes to their loved ones. So just because it seems dumb to you, well that is human nature. And if you're trying to write characters that are more realistic you make them react in a way that would seem believable in the situation. That is not lazy writing, that is creating well rounded characters.

I don't think it's a good use of that story device in a show with limited episodes and limited run time per episode. Especially since a bunch of it wasn't actually a new perspective. Look at how the show ended. Almost nothing was resolved and then they added in a heap of new questions. Reusing so much footage, that's just the same thing we have seen, just from maybe a different camera angle. Wasn't a good use of the time they had. The scenes with actual new perspective, great, I'm not advocating for those to go away, I never did. What if instead of seeing the exact same thing we've already seen. We see how Mae survived and who helped her, or how she became involved with Qimere, things like that.

Thank you for your opinion, but I disagree. I think having a multi-point-of-view story works even in a limited run series like this one. I like stories that show more than one point-of-view, as it shows how perspective changes a situation.

 

[flynnibus]

Thank you for your opinion, but I disagree. I think having a multi-point-of-view story works even in a limited run series like this one. I like stories that show more than one point-of-view, as it shows how perspective changes a situation.

I lol'd at the concern over limited runtime... while the technique is frequently used in 90-120min movies...

Dude just can't see past his own desires for wanting a different story to be told.

 

[Mike S]

I lol'd at the concern over limited runtime... while the technique is frequently used in 90-120min movies...

Dude just can't see past his own desires for wanting a different story to be told.

Everyone wants a different story to be told. That’s why no one’s watching this one

 

[flynnibus]

Everyone wants a different story to be told. That’s why no one’s watching this one

You miss the point still... If I don't want a love story.. I just don't watch it. I don't go online and say it's a horrible love story because it's needs more Rambo scenes.

 

[erasure fan1]

Except people are reactionary in such situations, even if its against our own self preservation, especially when it comes to their loved ones. So just because it seems dumb to you, well that is human nature

That is true people are very reactionary. But I also don't think people who have good intentions start with violence. If that was myself, if my decision was to let my child go, that's what I lead with when they come to get them. Notice they weren't coming back for Mae. If the Jedi were supposed to be the bad guys, they just show up and take the girls. It's just an odd choice in my opinion.

Thank you for your opinion, but I disagree. I think having a multi-point-of-view story works even in a limited run series like this one. I like stories that show more than one point-of-view, as it shows how perspective changes a situation.

Again, I agree. I'm strictly talking about the scenes with no change. When the same information is laid out exactly the same, a different camera angle doesn't count. It adds nothing to show a different perspective. It's literally showing the same thing we've seen already. The episodes only average 25/27min, so that time is extremely precious. All I'm saying is they could have used their time much more effectively.