Yoda’s retreat was not a mere act of defeat but a calculated move to ensure the survival and future resurgence of the Jedi Order. Ignoring this context and subtext misses the depth of his character and the intricate narrative of the Star Wars saga.
As I said, not ascribing motives that I've said I don't think were intended. I just think it's portrayed (unpleasantly) as a creepy power trip and therefore in no way has teacher/paternal motives. It's just "I see, I want, i take". Which, as you noted, seems to be a Jedi thing. Which again does not portray the Jedi in a good light.
I would only watch them again if paid to. lol
If stealing kids to force them to follow a specific belief system and life path is the Jedi way, how are they any different from the Empire's oppressive belief that their way of controlling people is the correct one?
Agreed we don't know the whole story yet. But short of the moms creating their daughters out of dead babies souls or something or creating them with the intent to destroy the universe, I think the basic message of others trying to prevent children being born to parents who want them, and then stealing them from those parents, is again, not showing the Jedi are the good guys.
Its an interesting take on things, but one that I don't think the creators intended, at least not in the way you're portraying. But that is the thing about storytelling, everyone gets something different from the stories being told.
I can understand that, it just would provide more context to the stories being told.
You've been using the word "stealing" pretty liberally here. They aren't snatching kids in the middle of the night like some kidnapper.
The TLDR, manipulating the force to create life is something that is seen as unnatural and something that is seen as using the dark side of the force, similar to cloning. You have to look at this from in-universe beliefs rather than from our universe beliefs. If this was talking about our universe I would agree with you, but we're talking about a fantasy universe that has its own lore.
I don't disagree that the stories need to do a better job at being more standalone in order to be more accessible. However with that said you are talking about a franchise that has over 4 decades of lore associated with it. So you have to expect that they are going to at least sprinkle in that lore into the stories to at least provide context.
They dueled to a draw. At the end of the duel, Palpatine was dangling from a rafter and Yoda fell to the ground after their force lightning blew each of them backward. Yoda took that opportunity to retreat because at that point, continuing the fight was futile. He 'failed' not only being unable to take out Palpatine, but also as the leader of the Jedi Order, allowing the rise of the Empire to happen under his watch.
Because the Jedi training is a way to protect the many WHILE ALSO enriching the individual. Instead of the empire only seeking their own enrichment through control.
He failed because not only did he lose the fight, he lost the castle. He didn't withdraw to his stronghold... he retreated from it entirely.
The castle was already lost before they dueled. Order 66 already occurred. There was no stronghold to retreat to. Staying alive was one of the only hopes.
One can lose a fight, a battle, or even a war, without being killed by their opponent.
I’m aware. But I’m specifically talking about the duel, which ended in a stalemate
So did Palps defeat Yoda to the point of killing him, no. But he did defeat him in the fact that the duel ended in Yoda not completing his task. Call it Palps having a hollow victory if you'd like, but its still a victory nonetheless.
Again, Palpatine’s objective was to kill Yoda. He failed. Yoda’s objective was to kill Palpatine. He failed. When both fail their objectives in a duel, we call that a stalemateThey went to the temple to discover what had happened, and when it was discovered it was Sidious and Skywalker - they set out to kill the sith and cut off the head of the snake. Yoda fails in that mission. His mission wasn't to delay, or challenge Sidious.. it was to end him. That was their stated purpose.
He failed and rather than push the attack more, he gives up the fight. No one stopped the fight but Yoda.. because he cuts and runs after making the determination he can't win. We call that losing when you fail to meet your objective
At that point Yoda concedes defeat and retreats from the planet... to determine another path to resist.
Palpatine also outlived Yoda, and had offspring.
And was cloned and had a granddaughter.
Again, Palpatine’s objective was to kill Yoda. He failed. Yoda’s objective was to kill Palpatine. He failed. When both fail their objectives in a duel, we call that a stalemate
Yep. Same old plan.
