Spirited Thoughts, News, Observations etc.

OK, hide the women and the children ... most importantly send the fanbois to bed with their plush and tell them to hide under the covers ... waaaay down under them because it's time for some Spirited thoughts, observations, news and anecdotes from a long weekend at The World Maintenance Forgot, yes WDW.

Where to start? With a conclusion? Or should I just work on down?

Should I start with the good ... things like seeing friends, having great weather, appreciating some things that the fan community tends to ignore and seeing EPCOT in its best colors?

Or ... do I focus on everything else? Because all going to WDW did for me this weekend was exceed my already amazingly low expectations for the state of WDW infrastructure and show quality (hey, they did exceed expectations, right?) and get me more excited for my future visits to DLP, possibly BGW, DL ... and, hopefully in the not too distant future, the Asian resorts again too.

Let's start with the basics. Freshness. If you had visited WDW in 2006 and hadn't returned in six years, you would find no appreciable new product in three of four parks.

You would find show quality that already had issues showing more issues than the typical fanboi in therapy. Well, that's if you can actually get to the MK because the crumbling monorail system has to be shut down all day from 11:30 a.m to 6 p.m. to do track work in the midst of one of the busiest times of the year ... imagine paying $500-700 a night for a room at the GF or Poly with monorail convenience touted (wonder what guest recovery they are doing there!) ... but let's assume you find your way there.

Let's start with the stuff the fan community is all lathered up for, namely the Storybook Circus mini-land expansion of Fantasyland. What did I think of it?

Not very much at all.

As usual, the hype was much greater than the product, which can't be viewed in a vacuum in a park that is crumbling and has no wow factor at all anymore.

In the day, Dumbo's primary colors and the red painted construction fences all around come off as garish ... befitting a circus, no doubt ... but Old Man Disney was no more a fan of circuses than he was of amusement parks and piers and the shady elements that all attracted. So, we have a new spinner that is prettier than the last. And it spins high enough to peek over construction walls and we all know how much that has become en vogue in O-Town of late.

It is a beautiful kinetic piece at night when the lighting is largely coming from the white and red bulbs that rim the queue (likely more of a makeshift deal now until the old Dumbo starts spinning across the way) and the LEDs embedded in the fountains underneath. But it is still Dumbo.

Sort of like the Barnstormer is still the Barnstormer, just missing much in the way of theming. Its prior incarnation had some whimsy, this doesn't. But they weren't getting rid of the only kiddie coaster in the park, so this was a cheap fix. Oh, and thanks to Bob Iger working with a chainsaw, you can now watch Disney buses and CMs driving to/fro work behind the MK as you walk up the queue if you peer left. I will never get what Phil and TDO have against trees, but they certainly do.

Nothing else is open beyond a much nicer train station that is still a train station ... and a set of new restrooms (someone needs to page Talking Head to this thread stat!) What I found amazing is that Disney was too cheap to actually connect these facilities to the park's main water supply, so they are using water from the immediate area that is untreated (or perhaps non-filtered/cleansed is more appropriate) so you have bizarre signs saying the water is 'non potable' (that means you can't drink it for those with limited vocabularies) over toilets. I know Disney's prices are crazy for a Coke, but over the toilet?!? ... Of course, the reason is they have colored the water blue because otherwise it would be a very icky color and folks would constantly be complaining that something isn't right.

Are the details nice? Sure. But they are very basic. I was much more excited by leaf patterns in the walkways around Old Man Island at Dixie Landings 20 years ago than I am by various hoof prints and 'peanuts' embedded in this area.

So much of this area also suffers from having both exposed coaster track (Disney fanbois seem to have issues with this at UNI) and show buildings just sticking out like a Duffy alone on a shelf full of Minnies.

If this is what Disney believes will raise the bar in O-Town ... well, no ... they don't. They understand what they have built and why. This is about capacity ... and NEXT GEN ... and keeping folks from being bored out of their minds by offering something 'new'.

It's in 'soft opening' now, but let's be blunt: they had to get this open and open now. They have so little capacity in this park due to 15 years of taking away and not adding. MK just isn't a very pleasant place right now at all with crowds and walls and lots of attractions that have seen far better days.

Again, it also seems that Ops and WDI simply can't get on the same page no matter what ... Dumbo opens with small plants where every little kid (and plenty of big ones) are going to stand, so the result is the foliage that was there Monday was trampled and mostly dead or dying by Friday. How they miss these basics is beyond me, although I think communication and common sense are both lacking.

Now, what else was 'new' (to me) at MK? Spin the Fanboi? Pin the Tail on Meg? Dole Whip tees (I mean, REALLY?!?!) ... or how about the latest way to hook OCD fanbois and why it is so important to NEXT GEN.

I'll see you all a little later ... like in the next post!
 

dreamscometrue

Well-Known Member
30-40 tops. I really don't ride it that much. Before I rode it in October it had been atleast 1-2 years.

I asked because I'm trying to get a sense of how often people have to experience attractions before they notice effects that work or don't.

How can I not notice issues on 'Small World' for example? Not sure why I don't see what I don't see, but it's obviously to some extent an issue of familiarity and frequency.

We have been to WDW 9 times in the past 4 years. I don't know how many locals visit, or do so frequently, but those 9 visits is more than any of my friends and family. I only ride 'Small World' about once every second trip, so since January 2008, I've been on it 4 times in 9 visits to WDW. That brings my lifetime total to about 8-9 rides. There is very, very little that I'll see wrong as a result. The boats might move slowly, but I'm singing that annoying song (thinking of Stewie singing "It's a Tiny, Tiny World"), looking at those spinning dolls, snapping a few pics (without a flash), and it's over.

During the past hour here tonight at home, I asked everyone on the ride with me if they noticed the broken eye on the hippo. All of us had the same response...ready...are you sitting down?

"What hippo?"

Understand? You are seeing the World through different eyes than practically all but the seasoned veterans.

(When I get a few minutes later, I am going to post a 1 day trip report with what we did, and what we were saying/thinking at the time. I think it'll help some people appreciate what many of us actually see. I don't think that you, Lee, Martin, '74 and others can relate to what we see during a visit, just as I can't relate to what you see. :))
 

Scuttle

Well-Known Member
I asked because I'm trying to get a sense of how often people have to experience attractions before they notice effects that work or don't.

How can I not notice issues on 'Small World' for example? Not sure why I don't see what I don't see, but it's obviously to some extent an issue of familiarity and frequency.

We have been to WDW 9 times in the past 4 years. I don't know how many locals visit, or do so frequently, but those 9 visits is more than any of my friends and family. I only ride 'Small World' about once every second trip, so since January 2008, I've been on it 4 times in 9 visits to WDW. That brings my lifetime total to about 8-9 rides. There is very, very little that I'll see wrong as a result. The boats might move slowly, but I'm singing that annoying song (thinking of Stewie singing "It's a Tiny, Tiny World"), looking at those spinning dolls, snapping a few pics (without a flash), and it's over.

During the past hour here tonight at home, I asked everyone on the ride with me if they noticed the broken eye on the hippo. All of us had the same response...ready...are you sitting down?

"What hippo?"

Understand? You are seeing the World through different eyes than practically all but the seasoned veterans.

(When I get a few minutes later, I am going to post a 1 day trip report with what we did, and what we were saying/thinking at the time. I think it'll help some people appreciate what many of us actually see. I don't think that you, Lee, Martin, '74 and others can relate to what we see during a visit, just as I can't relate to what you see. :))

I also think of Stewie lol, You make valid points anyway here is the hippo

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W83dDWlPYXU

It's at the 4:00 minute mark.
 

disney fan 13

Well-Known Member
I asked because I'm trying to get a sense of how often people have to experience attractions before they notice effects that work or don't.

How can I not notice issues on 'Small World' for example? Not sure why I don't see what I don't see, but it's obviously to some extent an issue of familiarity and frequency.

We have been to WDW 9 times in the past 4 years. I don't know how many locals visit, or do so frequently, but those 9 visits is more than any of my friends and family. I only ride 'Small World' about once every second trip, so since January 2008, I've been on it 4 times in 9 visits to WDW. That brings my lifetime total to about 8-9 rides. There is very, very little that I'll see wrong as a result. The boats might move slowly, but I'm singing that annoying song (thinking of Stewie singing "It's a Tiny, Tiny World"), looking at those spinning dolls, snapping a few pics (without a flash), and it's over.

During the past hour here tonight at home, I asked everyone on the ride with me if they noticed the broken eye on the hippo. All of us had the same response...ready...are you sitting down?

"What hippo?"

Understand? You are seeing the World through different eyes than practically all but the seasoned veterans.

(When I get a few minutes later, I am going to post a 1 day trip report with what we did, and what we were saying/thinking at the time. I think it'll help some people appreciate what many of us actually see. I don't think that you, Lee, Martin, '74 and others can relate to what we see during a visit, just as I can't relate to what you see. :))


That is not entirely true... For example, I have a 8yo brother who has been to WDW ( the trips he can remember ) about 3-4 times and he has started notice the problems...

Him: Brent, Whats wrong with all the buttons? they don't work when I hit em . ( HM queue )
Me: They turned them off for the night... ( not wanting to ruin any of the ''magic'')

Or on splash

Him: Brent, whats with all the broken frogs it sorta looks bad looking... ( laughing place )
Me: Uh... there just broken man... ( out of excuses)

He had a few other complaints like about the lack of splash on splash or the bumpiness on Space but the above two really stood out and told me that us fanboys are not the only ones who notice these things...
 

devoy1701

Well-Known Member
I asked because I'm trying to get a sense of how often people have to experience attractions before they notice effects that work or don't.

How can I not notice issues on 'Small World' for example? Not sure why I don't see what I don't see, but it's obviously to some extent an issue of familiarity and frequency.

We have been to WDW 9 times in the past 4 years. I don't know how many locals visit, or do so frequently, but those 9 visits is more than any of my friends and family. I only ride 'Small World' about once every second trip, so since January 2008, I've been on it 4 times in 9 visits to WDW. That brings my lifetime total to about 8-9 rides. There is very, very little that I'll see wrong as a result. The boats might move slowly, but I'm singing that annoying song (thinking of Stewie singing "It's a Tiny, Tiny World"), looking at those spinning dolls, snapping a few pics (without a flash), and it's over.

During the past hour here tonight at home, I asked everyone on the ride with me if they noticed the broken eye on the hippo. All of us had the same response...ready...are you sitting down?

"What hippo?"

Understand? You are seeing the World through different eyes than practically all but the seasoned veterans.

(When I get a few minutes later, I am going to post a 1 day trip report with what we did, and what we were saying/thinking at the time. I think it'll help some people appreciate what many of us actually see. I don't think that you, Lee, Martin, '74 and others can relate to what we see during a visit, just as I can't relate to what you see. :))

We get it. You made your point about 3 pages ago. And without the point you're trying to make, we already are well aware that not everyone notices the details we notice (if they did then we wouldn't be having this conversation anyway because everyone would have noticed the issues and something would have been done about it). Again, it's because we all see the parks and attractions differently that these level of details are so important to the parks. And you guys need people like us to pay attention to these details and make a fuss when they're not working or missing...otherwise the whole experience is less than what it was...whether you actually notice or not.

It's like walking through Liberty Square with the BGM not playing. You might not notice it, but you might (probably) get the sense that something is off/missing. You can't pinpoint exactly what it is, but you know that something just isn't right. BGM is a perfect example of a layer of the Disney experience that is essential to lands and attractions that is hardly noticed by most guests but is quintessential to the overall experience. Without it, there's just something missing...




On another note. I can't believe I missed the show! :brick:
 

dreamscometrue

Well-Known Member
We get it. You made your point about 3 pages ago.

Fair enough. I guess I did belabor that point a bit. :)

So, in your opinion, what has to change to get us a DL type show improvement?

Also, as I asked Lee earlier, why does TBO spend money on some apparently unimportant issues like cleaning monorail beams, but not put that money into better show? That seems to be an issue of allocation, not the bottom line.
 

Mem11

Active Member
Also, as I asked Lee earlier, why does TBO spend money on some apparently unimportant issues like cleaning monorail beams, but not put that money into better show? That seems to be an issue of allocation, not the bottom line.

Well there's your problem, cleaning the monorail beams is a very important issue. Disney's four quality standards, which they still tout, in order are Safety, Courtesy, Show, Efficiency. Dirty monorail beams are bad show and they should be cleaned, just like broken AA's in any of the attractions. So unless there is a safety or courtesy issue the "bad show" should always be fixed.

At one time Disney didn't pick and choose when they would or wouldn't follow their standards, now, not so much. As to why, it's because(My Opinion) TDO no longer feels there's a financial benefit to do it the Disney way.
 

sweetpee_1993

Well-Known Member
Thanks for the 'shout-out'. :wave:

I appreciate good discussion, am inquisitive, and like to read what seasoned veterans have to say.

Btw, I just got back from 9 days at WDW, and I made a list on the plane of what I saw 'broken/wrong', and what I saw that looked great imho (even things like landscaping, audio, etc.). The 'good' list had about 50 items and the 'bad' list, about 5. As I stated in an earlier post to '74, I saw very, very little wrong, and I'm not a newbie. I looked around, knew what to look for in most attractions, and saw most of WDW in awesome shape. It's not an issue of right or wrong or having 'blinders' on, people see what they see...and perception is indeed reality.

I'm sure were I to have '74 as a guide, he could point out many issues, but if I need a guide like that to spot them (and I've been to WDW a lot over the years), then things really are quite good. On these boards, the issues are raised by perhaps 50-100 people, out of what, 60,000. That's probably typical of the fraction of the annual visitors that notice as well. (That does not mean that TDO should not address the things that Lee, '74, devoy1701, etc. notice, but it does explain why these things are not priorities for the most part.)

I don't consider myself anywhere near the knowledgable type the guys here are by faaaaar. However, I could go to WDW with you and show you the bulk of what '74 talks about. My teenage sons can do the same. I couldn't tell you how many times I've been to WDW in my lifetime. First trip was in '76 as a toddler. I lived in the Orlando metro area/'burbs from age 6 to 16. I grew up on WDW. There was a big gap in my visits eliminating the 90s for me. The old man & I went to the MK & Epcot in October '99 then we took our sons for the first time in January 2004. Since '04 I've been 10 times. I think when we first took our boys the entire thing was about them and seeing things thru their eyes. I'd say until...oh...2009 or so I was pretty much sportin' my pixie-colored glasses and didn't notice the sheer number of things that were amiss. Starting in 2010 things really started looking different to me. Mostly it was an overall grubbiness of everything. Everything. To stand in the hub and see stuff that you never saw even in the "off-season" when there really was an "off-season" irked me in a whole new way. It was aggravating! The hubby & the kids started noticing things as well. It starts out lots of little things but then it started taking over. Before long you're talking about things and questioning what the heck is going on. I differ from my husband in that I went to WDW as a child. I remember the way things were back in the '80s. My parents and grandparents were fans. They would brag to non-Disney peeps how immaculently clean everything was. Bathrooms had a CM in each what seemed continuously and there was never ~ever~ anything out of place. Mom would swear you could eat off the floors..:eek:..yes! Of a public restroom! You never saw chipped paint or, my personal favorite, woodwork that had been painted over so many times (vs. being refinished properly) that the details were coated over and lost in the countless layers. Cast members always looked perfect. Costumes fit like they were tailored to each person. There was never a discheveled look at all even if it was hot as Hades outside. I don't ever remember seeing dirty carpet or floors. ((Look at the totally trashed floors in the attractions! Carpet that's so stained you can't even see what the original color was!)) My grandparents loved WDW for the rich, perfectly manicured landscapes. There was never a bare plot. Water features and fountains speckled the parks. Planters, beautiful trees, flowers w/color, etc....it was always there and never looked imperfect in any way. What's more: you virtually never saw landscape CMs touching anything during the day. I think we spotted one pruning a topiary once and there was a crowd gathered to watch because it was such a rare thing to see the magic happening. Imagine seeing the Oompa-Loompas at work at the chocolate factory. That's what it was like! Amazing! You never saw maintenance workers in the parks. And, you never saw cranes hanging around the castle in the middle of the day. Ever. Because back then show was everything. It all had to look perfect and you weren't supposed to see how it got that way. You just arrived in an idealistic perfect place and it was utter bliss filled with wonder and amazement. It's just not like that anymore.

I'm not saying I want things to be like "back in the day". I'm one who definitely subscribes to the belief that life is something that evolves and you can't reproduce moments in time. To expect that would be unrealistic. However, you can create a better tomorrow. Sounds a little familiar, huh? Unfortunately, WDW has failed to create a better tomorrow. Failed miserably.

I, too, like hearing what those in the know have to say. It explains a lot. Sad, but it doesn make sense.


That's the answer - if Small World had Sea Raycers we wouldn't have time to notice what's broken.

Okay. THIS I like. LOL!


Well this thread got A LOT shorter. :lookaroun

I noticed that as well. I was out of pocket all day, too. Aaaand, missed the show. Dangit!


Fair enough. I guess I did belabor that point a bit. :)

So, in your opinion, what has to change to get us a DL type show improvement?

Also, as I asked Lee earlier, why does TBO spend money on some apparently unimportant issues like cleaning monorail beams, but not put that money into better show? That seems to be an issue of allocation, not the bottom line.

You know, your questions are good ones here. Coming from someone who knows little to nothing, I'd say for things to change to bring about a DL-type turnaround the right people in the right places who can override the pathetic management in Orlando have to weild their sticks and whoop the magic into action. I don't think it will come from anyone in Orlando.

Why TDO spends money on trivial things vs. the things they should makes zero sense doesn't it? That's the point. There's no good reason why. What reason could be given that would make that have logic? It doesn't exist.

Probably not a good analogy but I think of the suits at WDW as overpaid exec types....or politicians. At the end of the day, when all is said & done, it's what's in their pockets that matters most to them. What has to happen to whom matters not as long as their pockets are full & fat. Numbers on paper and illusions make them look good. Work the numbers, create a facade, whatever. They don't care. As long as they stay where the money is flowing to their pockets they don't care. The really sad part is that, yes, there are people who come along who care. When the flow starts and the more powerful folks flex their muscle those who care either will yield and blend, leave, or be forced out. How and when things will change is a mystery. Will they ever? Who knows. For now it's like a disease that squashes all hope. It is what it is.
 

The Empress Lilly

Well-Known Member
Are things Pressler/Harris bad yet. THIS is where a lot of my current questions lie but I do not feel comfortable openly asking direct questions when they are likely to spur a huge flame-job. I don't make it a habit to invite flame-jobs. Criticizing effects is one thing but questioning anything even remotely related to things that are safety related seems to stir up a fluff of monumental proportions. It's my understanding (please correct me if I'm wrong because I only seek to learn & understand) that the ending bits of the Pressler/Harris days were 2 occurances that resulted in death/injury. I, like others, see the current state of the way things appear such as show & effects in attractions all across the WDW parks. If this is the current state of things we see, what is the current state of the things we don't see? Do you feel where I'm going with this? What will be the occurances that scream "Wake up!" at WDW? I wonder...and, like the mama that I am, I worry. Am I unreasonable in this direction of thought?
Poor maintenance and sloppy standards do lead to dangerous situations.

Take for example DLP. The park that is hailed as the shining example of how to properly run a park by Paris fanbois such as WDW1974. In reality, Paris from day one has been a rundown ghetto. Twice last year there were serious accidents at Paris' Big Thunder. These even made headlines outside of the Disneysphere. If WDW's Thunder has had black tarps instead of moving boulders, Paris has boulders that actually move. And then some. They come lose from the ceiling and crash on unsuspecting guests riding the coaster.
That is, when they are riding at all instead of being on one of those trains that simply derail.

Riding Paris' Big Thunder is like playing Donkey Kong you have to jump so many holes in the platform and dodge so many boulders hurled at you.


~ Paris should give guests three lives to play with. ~
 

marni1971

Park History nut
Premium Member
Poor maintenance and sloppy standards do lead to dangerous situations.

Take for example DLP. The park that is hailed as the shining example of how to properly run a park by Paris fanbois such as WDW1974. In reality, Paris from day one has been a rundown ghetto. Twice last year there were serious accidents at Paris' Big Thunder. These even made headlines outside of the Disneysphere. If WDW's Thunder has had black tarps instead of moving boulders, Paris has boulders that actually move. And then some. They come lose from the ceiling and crash on unsuspecting guests riding the coaster.
That is, when they are riding at all instead of being on one of those trains that simply derail.

Riding Paris' Big Thunder is like playing Donkey Kong you have to jump so many holes in the platform and dodge so many boulders hurled at you.


~ Paris should give guests three lives to play with. ~
Incorrect I'm afraid. One small fibreglass piece of rock fell onto the engine chassis. Fragments hit some guests nearest the impact. They didn't "crash onto guests".

Why not talk about the injured guests on Orlandos ToT? Or Space Mountain? Both directly due to ride system malfunctions. And so Many more near misses and actual issues not reported in the press? Next time you drop down the plunge in PotC for example hope your boat clears the splashdown area. For example. Or those facade refurbs that seem to be just for aesthetics? Or that Omnimover you are in won't rip it's gears and crash into unload? For example.

Or Disneylands BTM and the sad accident. Or the Columbias accident. Or how close their Space Mountain came to the unthinkable.

Where do you find the information to label DLP a ghetto? I'm not looking for an argument. Far from it. I just don't see where the hatred for DLP comes from. I'm going back there in 4 months. Even with my critical eye I'm so looking forward to it.
 

asianway

Well-Known Member
"Ghetto"=MK Main St. They've recently added cornhole to the lineup on unfun things to do while waiting for the parade....
 

dreamscometrue

Well-Known Member
Well there's your problem, cleaning the monorail beams is a very important issue.

No, that's not what I meant. I perhaps didn't word it properly.

I meant that if TDO is picking and choosing what to maintain, and they aren't allocating enough money to maintain it all (as they should), why would cleaning monorail beams, refurbishing pavillions facades which don't look bad, etc. be selected over fixing a.a.'s, etc.? That doesn't make sense to me.

If I were sitting in a room trying to decide what to do with a bare bones maintanence budget, and I supposedly don't care about show quality, I'd probably be thinking:

"Alright, let's not worry about refurbishing the right side of the Oasis, cleaning Morocco or Canada, cleaning the roof of resort bus shelters with a ladder (as at AKL 2 weeks ago), planting tons brand new foilage, etc...they are fine enough and the average guest will never, ever notice those things. So, let's put some maintanence money into keeping all a.a's running on Splash."

People on here 'in the know' keep talking about money, but it seems more to be an odd allocation of those funds.

What think you?
 

Hakunamatata

Le Meh
Premium Member
No, that's not what I meant. I perhaps didn't word it properly.

I meant that if TDO is picking and choosing what to maintain, and they aren't allocating enough money to maintain it all (as they should), why would cleaning monorail beams, refurbishing pavillions facades which don't look bad, etc. be selected over fixing a.a.'s, etc.? That doesn't make sense to me.

If I were sitting in a room trying to decide what to do with a bare bones maintanence budget, and I supposedly don't care about show quality, I'd probably be thinking:

"Alright, let's not worry about refurbishing the right side of the Oasis, cleaning Morocco or Canada, cleaning the roof of resort bus shelters with a ladder (as at AKL 2 weeks ago), planting tons brand new foilage, etc...they are fine enough and the average guest will never, ever notice those things. So, let's put some maintanence money into keeping all a.a's running on Splash."

People on here 'in the know' keep talking about money, but it seems more to be an odd allocation of those funds.

What think you?

Because, my guess is, WDW is a business and it runs on a business model. Each department within the whole is given $X each year in a budget and told to run your operation on that set amount of money. Thats why you have, say transportation, doing things that may seem trivial when a robot yeti is not fixed. Two separate departments within the organization doing whats best for their department with the money that is allocated to them.
 

GLaDOS

Well-Known Member
Poor maintenance and sloppy standards do lead to dangerous situations.

Take for example DLP. The park that is hailed as the shining example of how to properly run a park by Paris fanbois such as WDW1974. In reality, Paris from day one has been a rundown ghetto. Twice last year there were serious accidents at Paris' Big Thunder. These even made headlines outside of the Disneysphere. If WDW's Thunder has had black tarps instead of moving boulders, Paris has boulders that actually move. And then some. They come lose from the ceiling and crash on unsuspecting guests riding the coaster.
That is, when they are riding at all instead of being on one of those trains that simply derail.

Riding Paris' Big Thunder is like playing Donkey Kong you have to jump so many holes in the platform and dodge so many boulders hurled at you.


~ Paris should give guests three lives to play with. ~

And this, ladies and gentlemen, is one shining example of hyperbole.
 

marni1971

Park History nut
Premium Member

That old chestnut.

I won't defend DLP or DL to the point of lying, but those are issues that exist in all the WDW parks too. Tomorrow land in and out has bad cosmetic show too. For example. The pirate ship at dlp had been rebuilt out of steel. Yes, it shouldn't have taken so long. There is no excuse for that. But perhaps Norway could have taken a leaf from the same book.

DLP had issues. I dare say it still does. They are spending a small fortune resort wide to being things back to good as new, from hotel exteriors to attraction interiors. The tide has turned for EDL SCA. I wish I could say the same for TDO.

And I still don't understand the ghetto comment.
 

Bolna

Well-Known Member
Where do you find the information to label DLP a ghetto? I'm not looking for an argument. Far from it. I just don't see where the hatred for DLP comes from. I'm going back there in 4 months. Even with my critical eye I'm so looking forward to it.

While I won't describe DLP as ghetto, I would say that this park has had its up and downs. While I never was a yearly visitor, I have been in 95, 97, 03, 07 and in March 11 - and am very much looking forward to being there again in May of this year!

So I do have experience of DLP in different times. I absolutely thought that it was the most wonderful place in 95 (I can still bore people today with the story of several trip on the original Space Mountain without getting off). In 97 I did start to see things slipping. I very much remember seeing chipped paint at the Fantasyland train statin - telling my sister that this really is not up to the original Disney standards because at DL they would have teams repainting everything regularly (I read that in a guide book for California from the 80s). My sister thought I was crazy...

And then 2003 I felt really let down, the park did no longer look new, but a little bit dirty and unkept. The attractions were still great as ever, but the overall feel was not what I expected from Disney.

2007 was better - but we were staying in a hotel room at the Sequoia Lodge which was literally falling apart. And there were other issues as well.

And then I read online about all the issues like the pirate ship and the Newport Bay Club lighthouse and was rather afraid of the trip in 2011 and what I would see. And because of all the discussions about upkeep I was really keeping an open eye for things. I did notice the obvious things. The pavement issue in front of WDS, the entrance of Adventureland needed a repaint (and the lights needed to be fixed), I saw spiderwebs in the Space Mountain queue, there was some garbage on the roof under the Big Thunder Mountain queue which wasn't removed in the three days we were there. There was an issue with the music in our "rocket" on Space Mountain. But the missing music was the only show quality issue I experienced. In general I thought the inside of the attractions was generally in much better conditions that the outside. And even that was generally good, with some very obvious places that needed to be fixed in between.

Overall, I really can't say that I ever saw DLP in a state that can be called ghetto.

And a lot of the issues I saw last year have been part of the refurbishment projects that they started for the 20th anniversary. So I truly hope that DLP in 2012 is coming close to 1995 again!!

I think one of the reason why there are so differing opinions about DLP maintenance as compared to WDW maintenance might be that they let different things slip. Show quality at WDW and the outside appearance at DLP. I have no knowledge about this - but one reason for DLP keeping up show quality is that they are operated by a seperate company and surely do have some sort of a license agreement with TWDC which might very well stipulate certain standards. So if they want to save money on maintenance it has to be things like repainting the pirate ship. And compared to WDW DLP really needs to try to save money as they have so much debt hanging over them.
 

devoy1701

Well-Known Member
Fair enough. I guess I did belabor that point a bit. :)

So, in your opinion, what has to change to get us a DL type show improvement?

Also, as I asked Lee earlier, why does TBO spend money on some apparently unimportant issues like cleaning monorail beams, but not put that money into better show? That seems to be an issue of allocation, not the bottom line.

lol. ok. Sorry for being so blunt, I just thought we had finished hammering that nail. :animwink:

When it comes to what money they spend where. I think it comes down to how much budget gets allocated to each department and what those area managers think is important to them to spend money on. As we've all been made clear, some of the bonus compensation structure is set up to where execs get compensated on how well they kept their budgets under wraps. I imagine that leaves some room for personal judgement on what the manager deams to be most important to spend money on, and what show quality is worth their bonuses. It's almost like "here's your budget...but don't spend it if you know what's good for ya."

For your example of the monorail beams, I would love for Lee or Martin to chime in on how many times and why TDO keeps putting off a fleet replacement. But I imagine that beam cleaning is MUCH less expensive than fleet replacement or upgrades. So I wouldn't look at it as why is money being spent on beam cleaning and not on Splash Mountain, but what is being neglected in the Transportation Department at WDW while the monorail beams are getting cleaned. It appears to usually be let's do A or B or C...even though all of them should be done.
 

Bolna

Well-Known Member
For your example of the monorail beams, I would love for Lee or Martin to chime in on how many times and why TDO keeps putting off a fleet replacement. But I imagine that beam cleaning is MUCH less expensive than fleet replacement or upgrades. So I wouldn't look at it as why is money being spent on beam cleaning and not on Splash Mountain, but what is being neglected in the Transportation Department WDW while the monorail beams are getting cleaned. It appears to usually be let's to A or B or C...even though all of them should be done.

I recently talked with my father who is a structural engineer about the monorail. And he mentioned that depending on the type of concrete used the beams might be nearing the end of their life span. I wonder whether this has to do with not getting new trains because who knows how long the monorail will still be around anyway?
 

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