Spirited Thoughts, News, Observations etc.

OK, hide the women and the children ... most importantly send the fanbois to bed with their plush and tell them to hide under the covers ... waaaay down under them because it's time for some Spirited thoughts, observations, news and anecdotes from a long weekend at The World Maintenance Forgot, yes WDW.

Where to start? With a conclusion? Or should I just work on down?

Should I start with the good ... things like seeing friends, having great weather, appreciating some things that the fan community tends to ignore and seeing EPCOT in its best colors?

Or ... do I focus on everything else? Because all going to WDW did for me this weekend was exceed my already amazingly low expectations for the state of WDW infrastructure and show quality (hey, they did exceed expectations, right?) and get me more excited for my future visits to DLP, possibly BGW, DL ... and, hopefully in the not too distant future, the Asian resorts again too.

Let's start with the basics. Freshness. If you had visited WDW in 2006 and hadn't returned in six years, you would find no appreciable new product in three of four parks.

You would find show quality that already had issues showing more issues than the typical fanboi in therapy. Well, that's if you can actually get to the MK because the crumbling monorail system has to be shut down all day from 11:30 a.m to 6 p.m. to do track work in the midst of one of the busiest times of the year ... imagine paying $500-700 a night for a room at the GF or Poly with monorail convenience touted (wonder what guest recovery they are doing there!) ... but let's assume you find your way there.

Let's start with the stuff the fan community is all lathered up for, namely the Storybook Circus mini-land expansion of Fantasyland. What did I think of it?

Not very much at all.

As usual, the hype was much greater than the product, which can't be viewed in a vacuum in a park that is crumbling and has no wow factor at all anymore.

In the day, Dumbo's primary colors and the red painted construction fences all around come off as garish ... befitting a circus, no doubt ... but Old Man Disney was no more a fan of circuses than he was of amusement parks and piers and the shady elements that all attracted. So, we have a new spinner that is prettier than the last. And it spins high enough to peek over construction walls and we all know how much that has become en vogue in O-Town of late.

It is a beautiful kinetic piece at night when the lighting is largely coming from the white and red bulbs that rim the queue (likely more of a makeshift deal now until the old Dumbo starts spinning across the way) and the LEDs embedded in the fountains underneath. But it is still Dumbo.

Sort of like the Barnstormer is still the Barnstormer, just missing much in the way of theming. Its prior incarnation had some whimsy, this doesn't. But they weren't getting rid of the only kiddie coaster in the park, so this was a cheap fix. Oh, and thanks to Bob Iger working with a chainsaw, you can now watch Disney buses and CMs driving to/fro work behind the MK as you walk up the queue if you peer left. I will never get what Phil and TDO have against trees, but they certainly do.

Nothing else is open beyond a much nicer train station that is still a train station ... and a set of new restrooms (someone needs to page Talking Head to this thread stat!) What I found amazing is that Disney was too cheap to actually connect these facilities to the park's main water supply, so they are using water from the immediate area that is untreated (or perhaps non-filtered/cleansed is more appropriate) so you have bizarre signs saying the water is 'non potable' (that means you can't drink it for those with limited vocabularies) over toilets. I know Disney's prices are crazy for a Coke, but over the toilet?!? ... Of course, the reason is they have colored the water blue because otherwise it would be a very icky color and folks would constantly be complaining that something isn't right.

Are the details nice? Sure. But they are very basic. I was much more excited by leaf patterns in the walkways around Old Man Island at Dixie Landings 20 years ago than I am by various hoof prints and 'peanuts' embedded in this area.

So much of this area also suffers from having both exposed coaster track (Disney fanbois seem to have issues with this at UNI) and show buildings just sticking out like a Duffy alone on a shelf full of Minnies.

If this is what Disney believes will raise the bar in O-Town ... well, no ... they don't. They understand what they have built and why. This is about capacity ... and NEXT GEN ... and keeping folks from being bored out of their minds by offering something 'new'.

It's in 'soft opening' now, but let's be blunt: they had to get this open and open now. They have so little capacity in this park due to 15 years of taking away and not adding. MK just isn't a very pleasant place right now at all with crowds and walls and lots of attractions that have seen far better days.

Again, it also seems that Ops and WDI simply can't get on the same page no matter what ... Dumbo opens with small plants where every little kid (and plenty of big ones) are going to stand, so the result is the foliage that was there Monday was trampled and mostly dead or dying by Friday. How they miss these basics is beyond me, although I think communication and common sense are both lacking.

Now, what else was 'new' (to me) at MK? Spin the Fanboi? Pin the Tail on Meg? Dole Whip tees (I mean, REALLY?!?!) ... or how about the latest way to hook OCD fanbois and why it is so important to NEXT GEN.

I'll see you all a little later ... like in the next post!

 

[officeboy]

I have no idea what inane thought has gone into taking the beautiful PARK-like feeling MK had and turning it into the feel of an outlet mall with facades and some rides thrown in (anyone who can't handle hyperbole should probably not read that ... too late!:drevil

Having just returned from the beach, I sorta expect the MK to have more shade than that ...

And better views of the castle for shows like Wishes and The Magic, the Memories and ME! just isn't a good enough excuse for what they have done.

Rides cost money, shops selling stuff make money. If strip malls make money and you as a consultant could make this point (and a hefty fee) would you not head TDO in this direction? You need people to stay in the park as long as possible (to shop) so you do nighttime shows. If you can't see the show then what is the point?

I have been going to WDW for many years now. My wife was on the opening crew for SM. No idea how many time I have been trough a main gate.... One thing I can clearly see at the parks is money. If it costs money for upkeep it may or may not get what it needs. If it makes money or helps to make money then 'cut the tress down'. Is there a reason Traditions went from 2 weeks to what 2 hours now? I assume it costs money. What is the ROI on that?

Walt and Roy are gone as apparently is there sense of place and show. They figured out how to make a great product and make money at it, albeit maybe not as fast as they could have. Show me anybody on Wall Street willing to do that. TDO, TDA are not running the parks.

Not really.

 

[COProgressFan]

2. The elevator exterior description was only the beginning of the shabbiness. I say this stuff with total honesty. I don't make it a habit to be a grumbler & pick stuff apart. Once we were upstairs being delivered to our room it was no different. The baseboards & corridor trim were scuffed & beat up. You could tell which doors led to service areas because they looked really beat up & dirty compared to the room doors. And there were no less than 6 rooms with room service trays sitting on the floor outside loaded with food scraps and dirty dishes. The time was approx. 9:30 am. Not like it was 6:30 am. There was a musky/musty smell in the air. The curtains looked old and bordering outdated on the heavily condensated dirty windows we walked past. There was a section of the hallway that was always frigid cold. Freezing! But the rest of the hall was comfortable. I have a 2 story house in an extreme hot summertime climate not far from the coast. If my a/c functioned that way it'd be time to call in service or replace some units. In the room was cracked marble flooring, warn furnishings, and a filthy patio covered in bugs. The room certainly felt more fresh than the rest of what we passed to get there. The beds were comfy and I was grateful for the nicer bedding. I think as an overall thought it was like none of those things we saw weren't things you had to really look for to notice. So you're left with a clear sense of: this is how the YC keeps their house. Saying something felt pointless because it was an overall run-down-ness. To be honest, it wasn't that different than so much of what WDW as a whole had decended to so what's the point in puting it to words in that moment? We found some drinks and spent the next week seeking that sweet spot of relaxation to make the most of what we had where we were.

Saying it now like I have pretty much sounds like we resolved ourselves to our surroundings, huh? I guess it makes sense that we have no real urge to go back. I'd rather take that chunk we spent at WDW before & after the cruise to fund more time on the ship(s) or for seeking adventure at other Disney destinations. :animwink:

I know Spirit asked about whether you complained to management, but when there are so many glaring problems with upkeep, as in your case, where do you begin? It's one thing to call to complain the the carpet is dirty in your room, or there is dust all over the lights, but managers just don't seem to care when you tell them there is marker all over the arm chair (happened to me at the GF) or that the walls are all scuffed, especially if those issues aren't even in your room.

I guess my point is if management really doesn't know that the elevators are in poor condition, the hallways are abused and the furniture is old and worn, then you making a small complaint as a guest is really the least of their problems. I'm probably not going to call up the front desk with a laundry list of issues with my room --when you get to that point it really seems like any efforts would be pointless, and sort of just resign to the fact that "this is how this place is". Sad to say, you're asking management for your room and resort to be something its not (or at least isn't any more).

You could make a stink about it, but it also does really put a downer on your vacation. (Maybe they're counting on this?)

Again, I don't agree with it at all, but barring any management shakeup it sadly seems like it is what is.

 

[Blueliner]

Trip Report within a Trip Report

I am not sure where I fit in this discussion. I went to WDW 3 times between 1979 and 1986, but my wife and I have averaged about one trip a year since 1994 (we actually started out on extremely low budget trips to Fort Wilderness when we were dating in college, which was great fun).

Now, we typically visit WDW during the Friday-Wednesday leading up to Thanksgiving, and we might throw in a day or two at some other point in the year. We bought 240 DVC points at the Boardwalk last spring on the resale market, so we now are spending more time at deluxe resorts than we have in the past. We love being DVC members and do not regret that purchase at all (probably because we got such a good deal on the resale market).

Our family of seven took a four-night cruise on the Disney Dream last week, followed by a two night stay in a Beach Club 2 bedroom villa. Everyone in our family absolutely loved the cruise. While it is difficult to compare a 1-year-old cruise ship to a 40-year-old theme park, the cruise reassured me that some operating units of the Walt Disney Company still know how to do things the right way. Everything on the ship was immaculate. To Sweetpea's point in an earlier post, there actually were attendants near the public restrooms that were keeping things clean. The cast members were friendly, helpful, well-groomed, and cheerful (in a non-cheesy way). There was sufficient staffing to make sure guests' needs were met. One example is the cast members who walk around the main pools, constantly keeping the decks free of excess water. On top of that, Castaway Cay was beautifully landscaped and had nicely-themed (but not over the top) bars, shops, and dining areas, as well as fun activities for all age groups. The processes on the ship (dining, disembarking, check-in at the Oceaneers' Club for our kids) were well thought out and "Efficient" (as compared to other cruise lines we have travelled with). Everyone loved it, from ages 4 to 38. The cruise was an incredible experience that had me recalling all the little things that blew me away about WDW when I was visiting in the late 90's.

Our visit to the Beach Club Villas was nearly as fun. I still may have been on a high from the cruise, but I thought the resort's public areas looked great. The architecture and landscape architecture were gorgeous. The upkeep was very good, both in and out of our villa. I went on several morning runs around Crescent Lake and along the waterways to DHS and the International Gateway, and I was amazed at the care for the grounds. Stormalong Bay was active but not loud. Our family shared our first-ever Kitchen Sink at Beaches and Cream and our waitress was very good.

The family went to Blizzard Beach on Friday and stayed from opening to closing. Again, I did not spot any particular maintenance issues. The theming is awesome (with the Lattawatta Lodge anchoring the main walkway into the slide areas), and the landscaping was pristine. Again, everyone loved it, from ages 4 to 38.

We had an absolute blast on a Disney-centric vacation in which we spent no time at all in the theme parks. A lot of the issues WDW1974 has brought up about MK and WDW generally did not apply to our trip. In my opinion, our family's trip confirmed WDW1974's general point that there still are operating units within The Walt Disney Company that seem to prioritze "Show" properly. In other words, there still are many significant praise-worthy aspects to Disney parks and recreation. It's just that the WDW theme parks, particularly MK, are falling behind.

For that reason, we will split time between the WDW theme parks and Universal Orlando (which we were really impressed with last year) in November. Next spring break we are heading to California, starting in San Francisco, meandering down the coast for a day or two, and finishing with a stay at the Grand Californian Villas (with 3 days devoted to DCA and Disneyland Park). We can't wait for that trip, as our first trip to DLR a couple years ago was awesome.

 

[flynnibus]

We had an absolute blast on a Disney-centric vacation in which we spent no time at all in the theme parks. A lot of the issues WDW1974 has brought up about MK and WDW generally did not apply to our trip. In my opinion, our family's trip confirmed WDW1974's general point that there still are operating units within The Walt Disney Company that seem to prioritze "Show" properly. In other words, there still are many significant praise-worthy aspects to Disney parks and recreation. It's just that the WDW theme parks, particularly MK, are falling behind

Yeah, you hit the areas where Disney still does better than the competition. DCL and the water parks. Those are the areas IMO that still seem 'ahead' of others.. where the rest of the properties the competition has 'caught up' or at least very close.

 

[sweetpee_1993]

I know Spirit asked about whether you complained to management, but when there are so many glaring problems with upkeep, as in your case, where do you begin? It's one thing to call to complain the the carpet is dirty in your room, or there is dust all over the lights, but managers just don't seem to care when you tell them there is marker all over the arm chair (happened to me at the GF) or that the walls are all scuffed, especially if those issues aren't even in your room.

I guess my point is if management really doesn't know that the elevators are in poor condition, the hallways are abused and the furniture is old and worn, then you making a small complaint as a guest is really the least of their problems. I'm probably not going to call up the front desk with a laundry list of issues with my room --when you get to that point it really seems like any efforts would be pointless, and sort of just resign to the fact that "this is how this place is". Sad to say, you're asking management for your room and resort to be something its not (or at least isn't any more).

You could make a stink about it, but it also does really put a downer on your vacation. (Maybe they're counting on this?)

Again, I don't agree with it at all, but barring any management shakeup it sadly seems like it is what is.

Yeah. As a woman, wife, & mother in my mind I likened saying something to management on the level of going to visit someone else in their home then telling them all about how they could improve their housekeeping/maintenance flaws. No matter what I say, if it's the overall way things are done then it's highly unlikely that anything might change. Habits are habits whether they're good or bad ones.

This whole thread has mostly been one that existed while I was out of town visiting my folks. I discussed so much of this with my mom who agrees with me. She's been to WDW a few times in recent years and understands what I describe that I'm seeing. She sees it, too. I'd have to ask her the particulars about the room she & my brother had last May at the Poly. If I remember they made a list of things that needed correcting upon arrival. One of which was (...get ready to laugh...) a burned-out light. :lol:

After getting home I had time to discuss this thread, it's contents, & my thoughts with my husband. When I asked him why notifying management at the YC wasn't the thing for him to do either his response was:

At a discounted rate of over $350/night why should I have to take the time to point these things out to someone in management??? Isn't it their job to be a step ahead and taking care of these things before I ever get there??? If management allows those conditions to begin with, why would they give a rat's (a-word) what I have to say about it? In the YC's defense, there was exterior cleaning going on near our balcony when we were there so the dirty patio I can forgive. The rest I can't say the same. And if you ((meaning me)) remember correctly, those room service trays were still out in the halls late into the evening. The food sat there on the floor all day.

So, yes, you're right. We both sorta feel that saying something felt pretty pointless. And still does.

Yeah, you hit the areas where Disney still does better than the competition. DCL and the water parks. Those are the areas IMO that still seem 'ahead' of others.. where the rest of the properties the competition has 'caught up' or at least very close.

This is good to hear. We're staying at Pop for 2 nights and going to Typhoon Lagoon pre-cruise in May. The pre-cruise plans have been highly scruttinized the past several days. I've been quite concerned about what we'd find at the water park. Then there's Pop. I'm digging like a mad woman looking for alternatives in the same price range. I'd love to pull the trigger on the new Wyndham Bonnet Creek with their beautiful, modern rooms but the resort fee + the parking fee is a bit of a turnoff. Hubby suggested I move us to Yacht or Beach Club but I'm going with a great big heck-no on those. Why spend that kinda stupid money on that? We'll have to see what I settle on. I'm glad to hear the water parks are still okay.

:wave:

 

[flynnibus]

This is good to hear. We're staying at Pop for 2 nights and going to Typhoon Lagoon pre-cruise in May. The pre-cruise plans have been highly scruttinized the past several days. I've been quite concerned about what we'd find at the water park. Then there's Pop. I'm digging like a mad woman looking for alternatives in the same price range. I'd love to pull the trigger on the new Wyndham Bonnet Creek with their beautiful, modern rooms but the resort fee + the parking fee is a bit of a turnoff

There is nothing wrong with Pop as long as expectations are in line. It's a motel with Disney icons splattered around. The rooms are ok, but small and no queen size beds. The main building is loud and not relaxing at all. I equate it to coming home to the mall.

It's fine if someone just wants a motel.. and are fine with the price. But if you can get something for the same money, and don't need the EMH, Magical Express, and other perks.. you can certainly stay a lot nicer elsewhere. We stayed at the Radisson LBV right outside the parks for our overnight before heading to Uni last trip.. and it was great. Huge room that slept our 5 easily.. huge bed.. big TV.. pull out couch, massive bathroom, refidgerator, free wifi, free parking, etc. For $101+tax. I wasn't searching for the cheapest, but I needed a room that could sleep 5 and I wouldn't have to worry about my wife complaining about the place and it turns out she said that was the nicest hotel of our whole trip.

 

[sweetpee_1993]

There is nothing wrong with Pop as long as expectations are in line. It's a motel with Disney icons splattered around. The rooms are ok, but small and no queen size beds. The main building is loud and not relaxing at all. I equate it to coming home to the mall.

It's fine if someone just wants a motel.. and are fine with the price. But if you can get something for the same money, and don't need the EMH, Magical Express, and other perks.. you can certainly stay a lot nicer elsewhere. We stayed at the Radisson LBV right outside the parks for our overnight before heading to Uni last trip.. and it was great. Huge room that slept our 5 easily.. huge bed.. big TV.. pull out couch, massive bathroom, refidgerator, free wifi, free parking, etc. For $101+tax. I wasn't searching for the cheapest, but I needed a room that could sleep 5 and I wouldn't have to worry about my wife complaining about the place and it turns out she said that was the nicest hotel of our whole trip.

Yep. Our 1st four family vacations were at Pop the first of which was less than a month after it first opened. Pop does hold a bit of a nostalgia factor for us but at what trade-off, right?

THank you! I'm on Radisson's site right now checking it out! :wave:

 

[WDW1974]

They contracted out the carpet cleaning also, they have a company called Capital Carpet Cleaning doing a lot of the carpet cleaning now.

That isn't surprising ... but it's also lousy show.

I returned to the GF after a night at the MK (yeah, I'm scum of the earth because I parked at the wedding pavilion and rode the monorail over!:fork only to see the 'outsouced' help at a wannbe 5-star hotel (generally 3 star on a good day) listening to music on iPods and yelling across the lobby at 1:40 a.m. ... That screams class, although the guy cleaning the staircase near Mizner's actually shut his machine off, looked me in the eyes and told me to have a good night as we crossed paths ... more than a typical Disney CM does these days.

~When will they outsource Mickey and Pals?~

 

[WDW1974]

Aaah...the sweet smell of succes :
It is!

For effect, I gave a spirited verdict of DLP. Just to, as it were, turn the tables. My post about Paris reads to Paris fans the way critical posts about WDW sometimes read to WDW fans: harsh, very critical of something close to somebody's heart.
It goes to show how fun and witty sarcasm can be easily understood as spiteful hatred or unecessary hyperbole.

Guess what? WDW is close to my heart, Empress. That is why I am so critical of the way it is (and has been) being mismanaged. I may love my family, but I don't think their perfect and don't get all confrontational when someone gives them fair criticism.

I have no spiteful hatred toward WDW and you'd have to have a very low intellect to read what I write continually and actually believe that. If people do, that's on them. Not me.

I'll write about DLP sometime after I return and rest assured, I'll post the good, bad and ugly and compare it to WDW.

~ What loser considers a provoked reaction on the internets a sign of succes? ~

~What loser can't come up with their own material?~

 

[WDW1974]

Thanks Empress for some clarification. I Guess we have differing views of the DLP resort outside the parks... I'd take it over the DL resort anyday and wouldn't call Newport ugly, but the place has had serious flaws that are being corrected, some quicker than others. WDSP was an Eisner travesty. The government owned public plaza outside the TGV station is and has been so wrong, the ugliest public owned area sandwiched between Mouse property. Yes, aesthetics went out the window for operations, but I hope 20 years later the Mouse finally pulls ownership in house.

I don't know that I'd take anywhere over DLR (even TDR) just because it is where the MAGIC began ... the real magic. ... But DLP was masterplanned magnificently ... until they went and threw out the ugliest Disney park on earth in DSP ... and as you say the TGV station isn't Disney's fault, it's on the government and while not as nice as HKDL's setup, TDR's isn't a whole lot more MAGICal either as they don't own the subway lines or rights and it can get gritty.

There are multiple issues elsewhere... Swinging AAs that don't, duelling AAs that take so much upkeep, Soundtracker cards that work loose too easily (thats first gen for you) but I still find ops issues in Paris less intrusive and less of them than Orlando.

PM me if you're around in late July :wave:

74- you bet I'm looking forward to Dreams. I got a laser test photo last night that looks just awesome. Now they've tweaked the issues they had with them earlier.

I can't wait for Dreams. I am trying to stay away from any/all coverage of it because I like to be surprised (even in the bedroom ... wait, where did that come from?:zipit:) ... There are some things I wanna do just for the heck of it too ... like ride the Molly Brown for the first time ... ride the only original Star Tours left for nostalgia ...walk thru TSL (doubt I'll ride anything unless waits are under 10 minutes) ... and finally get to tour Hotel Santa Fe (the only DLP resort I have never stayed or even set foot in!)

~Dinner at Walt's sounds lovely ... we can sit around and bash Eddie Sotto!~

 

[WDW1974]

I always wondered about the love for carpets as well - the same at Sunshine Seasons. I always thought it was an American thing as it surprises me in American airports as well. Personally I think a non-carpet surface would be way more hygienic in a restaurant. :shrug:

Probably done more for aesthetics and noise reduction than for cleanliness.

That is the reason. Hell, they just went and put carpeting down in my local (SoFla) Rainforest Cafe for this reason ... but carpet and food and beverage and people don't mix ... and it looks filthy overnight.

You could steam clean nightly, which Disney would never do, and it still wouldn't come clean.

Gotta be a better solution.

~How about grass and wood chips?~

 

[WDW1974]

That's exactly my thinking: if the stuff I see is this bad and poorly kept I don't even want to think about the stuff I can't see. I'd love to sit around thinking maintenance's shoestring budget and limited time are being consumed by keeping the actual ride systems in tip-top shape but somehow I'm not entirely convinced. :lookaroun

Yep. And when you start going backstage and befriending CMs, you start to realize the scope of how bad it is.

Imagine building a beautiful home and spending millions ... that place has everything ... now, imagine just letting it sit for years, sometimes decades without doing any meaningful work in maintaining it.

In essence, that is how WDW Co chooses to run the resort.

You're very right. I damned well didn't pay Days Inn prices to stay upstairs at the YC even with 40% off rack. This is part of my ever-expanding problem with WDW right now. Even their so-called "best" offerings aren't worth discounted prices. Value at any level is evaporated.

Well, it has gotten to the point where 40-45% AP and 40-60% CM discounts aren't enough to lure me on property. Considering I have spent hundreds and hundreds of nights at WDW resorts, that should have some high level VP (like Kevin Meyers, VP of Resorts) contacting me .... but it's much cheaper to just tell me to go have a MAGICal stay elsewhere, that the problem isn't Disney's failure to deliver an advertised/hyped product, but mine for expecting them to!

To answer your question, no, I didn't say anything to any management about the state of things at the YC. Few reasons:

1. It was our 18th anniversary the day we checked-in. Just like the slap-in-the-face crappy steaks for an insulting amount of money (even after the 20% TiW discount) at the Yachtsman that night, we were trying very hard to have a positive experience without allowing negativity into such an important day. If either of us had spoken our disappointments on that day we might've been in that rut. We're both redheaded w/that temperament. Sometimes its harder to resolve anger than others. Ya know? :animwink:

I get it and I don't want to come off like I'm taking shots at you because I really do enjoy your posts and feel you are one of the pretty sane folks in these MAGICal waters ... but nothing ever gets improved when Disney (or any company) thinks they can get away with things like that.

I haven't been to the Yachtsman in years, but it was always wonderful. I am sorry to hear that wasn't the case. Again, I would have gotten the manager and then I wouldn't have paid for the meal.

2. The elevator exterior description was only the beginning of the shabbiness. I say this stuff with total honesty. I don't make it a habit to be a grumbler & pick stuff apart.

Nope, that's my job around here!:drevil:

Once we were upstairs being delivered to our room it was no different. The baseboards & corridor trim were scuffed & beat up. You could tell which doors led to service areas because they looked really beat up & dirty compared to the room doors. And there were no less than 6 rooms with room service trays sitting on the floor outside loaded with food scraps and dirty dishes. The time was approx. 9:30 am. Not like it was 6:30 am. There was a musky/musty smell in the air. The curtains looked old and bordering outdated on the heavily condensated dirty windows we walked past. There was a section of the hallway that was always frigid cold. Freezing! But the rest of the hall was comfortable. I have a 2 story house in an extreme hot summertime climate not far from the coast. If my a/c functioned that way it'd be time to call in service or replace some units. In the room was cracked marble flooring, warn furnishings, and a filthy patio covered in bugs. The room certainly felt more fresh than the rest of what we passed to get there. The beds were comfy and I was grateful for the nicer bedding. I think as an overall thought it was like none of those things we saw weren't things you had to really look for to notice. So you're left with a clear sense of: this is how the YC keeps their house. Saying something felt pointless because it was an overall run-down-ness. To be honest, it wasn't that different than so much of what WDW as a whole had decended to so what's the point in puting it to words in that moment? We found some drinks and spent the next week seeking that sweet spot of relaxation to make the most of what we had where we were.

So, you stayed at an alleged 4-star Disney deluxe resort and the biggest feeling you left with was that it was ''rundown'' am I understanding this correctly?

You really should call and have a talk with Kevin. He'll probably run a credit check on you and the husband first and try and figure out what the 'MAGIC number' is to satisfy you ... but provided you are at least upper middle class or military or connected, Disney will take care of you. Or they'll shut you up with freebies. They won't correct the problems because that would come with replacing people at the top ... like Kevin.

Saying it now like I have pretty much sounds like we resolved ourselves to our surroundings, huh? I guess it makes sense that we have no real urge to go back. I'd rather take that chunk we spent at WDW before & after the cruise to fund more time on the ship(s) or for seeking adventure at other Disney destinations. :animwink:

If you wanted to go back I'd make you a case study in my future book on Mental Health and the Disney Fan Community (and, yes, I am seriously thinking about penning one!)

There's a large group of fans that insist on ignoring what is right in front of them, around them or under them ... and/or grading Disney on a curve.

~Or they blame the other guests ... funny how Vegas rooms always look great to me and they get abused as much or more than WDW's!~

 

[WDW1974]

I know Spirit asked about whether you complained to management, but when there are so many glaring problems with upkeep, as in your case, where do you begin? It's one thing to call to complain the the carpet is dirty in your room, or there is dust all over the lights, but managers just don't seem to care when you tell them there is marker all over the arm chair (happened to me at the GF) or that the walls are all scuffed, especially if those issues aren't even in your room.

I guess my point is if management really doesn't know that the elevators are in poor condition, the hallways are abused and the furniture is old and worn, then you making a small complaint as a guest is really the least of their problems. I'm probably not going to call up the front desk with a laundry list of issues with my room --when you get to that point it really seems like any efforts would be pointless, and sort of just resign to the fact that "this is how this place is". Sad to say, you're asking management for your room and resort to be something its not (or at least isn't any more).

You could make a stink about it, but it also does really put a downer on your vacation. (Maybe they're counting on this?)

Again, I don't agree with it at all, but barring any management shakeup it sadly seems like it is what is.

Management is well aware of the problems, so you make a fair and valid point. That's why I said you go to the top.

But no one should be forced to put up with a subpar product. I had a room at YC that was NOT what it should have been a decade ago ... and the entire resort had that same rundown feeling. I talked with the manager (who didn't seem to give a damn) and told him he was failing to deliver the product I paid for and showed him examples. He didn't take responsibility, but didn't deny the issues existed and said there wasn't anything he could do ... but he could 'upgrade' me to either the BW or the GF at the same price I was paying and toss in a $100 food credit on my room. I got that up to $200 and moved over to the Grand ... and, frankly, that place wasn't much better (this was right before both resorts were rehabbed).

The point here is that if Disney can't deliver what they should be, then you nicely but forcefully explain to the highest manager you can that with close to 30,000 rooms on property that there's somewhere they can move you to. They will do this. Or upgrade you to a newly renovated room or throw in concierge or all of the above.

But accepting less than what you should be getting only allows them to perpetuate the $crewing of the guests.

~Except no less than what you have paid for!~

 

[WDW1974]

After getting home I had time to discuss this thread, it's contents, & my thoughts with my husband. When I asked him why notifying management at the YC wasn't the thing for him to do either his response was:

At a discounted rate of over $350/night why should I have to take the time to point these things out to someone in management??? Isn't it their job to be a step ahead and taking care of these things before I ever get there??? If management allows those conditions to begin with, why would they give a rat's (a-word) what I have to say about it? In the YC's defense, there was exterior cleaning going on near our balcony when we were there so the dirty patio I can forgive. The rest I can't say the same. And if you ((meaning me)) remember correctly, those room service trays were still out in the halls late into the evening. The food sat there on the floor all day.

So, yes, you're right. We both sorta feel that saying something felt pretty pointless. And still does.

Maybe we're different (and that's cool ... I have friends that think they need nine telephones in a tiny townhouse ... oh, and four computers ... and six TVs, including a 60-inch home theater ... I sorta love them and think they're nuts at the same time) ... but $350 a night for a standard hotel room in Orlando is absurdly high. I don't know what your financial situation is, but I can't imagine paying that and thinking the room and facilities you got were acceptable.

You could have Pricelined a great room in the area for $50-80 a night and got well more than what you paid for.

When I complained at YC I was paying $169 a night on a FLA resident special ... and I thought that was high to begin with. Now, I doubt I'd stay at YC for anything more than $99 a night (which will never happen).

~Poor Christie!~

 

[WDW1974]

Yep. Our 1st four family vacations were at Pop the first of which was less than a month after it first opened. Pop does hold a bit of a nostalgia factor for us but at what trade-off, right?

THank you! I'm on Radisson's site right now checking it out! :wave:

You may want to check out the brand new (well it was stripped down bare and rebuilt) Sheraton LBV Resort where I stayed last week. I used SPG points, but the going rate was $109 (some folks were paying $49 as a grand reopening special as the location used to be the Sheraton Safari Hotel) and I'd put much of the room/resort on par with a Disney deluxe. The service was amazing ... every worker made eye contact and asked how you were doing and if they could do anything for you etc.

~Gotta break the addiction!~

 

[sweetpee_1993]

Well, it has gotten to the point where 40-45% AP and 40-60% CM discounts aren't enough to lure me on property. Considering I have spent hundreds and hundreds of nights at WDW resorts, that should have some high level VP (like Kevin Meyers, VP of Resorts) contacting me .... but it's much cheaper to just tell me to go have a MAGICal stay elsewhere, that the problem isn't Disney's failure to deliver an advertised/hyped product, but mine for expecting them to!

I'm right there with you. The rack rates are jacked beyond anything other than laughable for what you get so that discounted rates can be almost tolerable. However, even at 40% off the prices are still way out of line with where they should be for what's there. My pixie-colored glasses just ain't workin' so good, I guess. The urge to go balls-out on WDW resorts has gone by the wayside.

You're right. Just because I can see thru the pixie dust for what's actually being delivered at those sick rates and refuse to pay-to-stay doesn't mean there isn't a line of folks behind me more than happy to plunk down the money. Why should Disney do anything to improve when there's plenty of folks still chomping at the bit to have whatever is put out there? That's where I take a stand. I think you do, too. :animwink:

I get it and I don't want to come off like I'm taking shots at you because I really do enjoy your posts and feel you are one of the pretty sane folks in these MAGICal waters ... but nothing ever gets improved when Disney (or any company) thinks they can get away with things like that.

Thank you for the compliment. :kiss:

Nope, nothing will get improved as long as there's no need to. As stated above, I may think what Disney delivers is no longer worthwhile for me but there's plenty who believe it is for them. My annual or more vacation bucks, no matter how much that amount is, is a drop in the ocean for WDW. They don't care what I think. It'd have to be a larger portion of their audience raising a stink. If you think it would be helpful to start some sort of communication I will but I'm highly skeptic.

I haven't been to the Yachtsman in years, but it was always wonderful. I am sorry to hear that wasn't the case. Again, I would have gotten the manager and then I wouldn't have paid for the meal.

Well, we did in an indirect way get hooked up with a manager after our $350 disappointment. Filippe was a very gracious fellow. Even better was the poolside server, Rocky, that put us in touch with him who is a completely incredible human being and if you ever get the chance to meet her she's frickin' awesome. Anywhoo, Filippe offered us a 2nd dinner on him (sans alcoholic beverages) to give them another shot. We debated it because it was our last night and we aren't the type to take advantage or try to score freebies. Our intent in speaking to Filippe was to bring to his attention the poor cuts and incorrect cooking. We ended up giving Yachtsman another shot because we wanted to leave that restaurant feeling like it was totally incredible the way the reviews we read score the steaks there. Even at the price of ~free~ I still can't give those steaks a better review than, say, our local Roadhouse. Seriously. Just not the quality for the price they ask. :shrug:

So, you stayed at an alleged 4-star Disney deluxe resort and the biggest feeling you left with was that it was ''rundown'' am I understanding this correctly?

Pretty much. That would be my overall for the interior of the YC. Stormalong Bay was incredible, tho. Mad props there. Clean poolside areas, fun facilities, well-kept, and the best poolside service I've ever had anywhere. I only wish we could've paid a set fee and had Rocky just come be part of our group for the afternoon hours we spent there.

You really should call and have a talk with Kevin. He'll probably run a credit check on you and the husband first and try and figure out what the 'MAGIC number' is to satisfy you ... but provided you are at least upper middle class or military or connected, Disney will take care of you. Or they'll shut you up with freebies. They won't correct the problems because that would come with replacing people at the top ... like Kevin.

If he checked our credit he'd prob'ly wet himself. We've worked long & hard to keep things as near perfect as humanly possible. I'm proud to say that our dedication to a responsible existence has paid off. Oh, plus my dad is retired military! Unfortunately, freebies won't buy me (as previously mentioned) and there's not a magic number. Well, okay, pay off my house or my car maybe - :lol: Aaaand your last statement is what I'm thinking so why bother?

If you wanted to go back I'd make you a case study in my future book on Mental Health and the Disney Fan Community (and, yes, I am seriously thinking about penning one!)

There's a large group of fans that insist on ignoring what is right in front of them, around them or under them ... and/or grading Disney on a curve.

~Or they blame the other guests ... funny how Vegas rooms always look great to me and they get abused as much or more than WDW's!~

Loooove to be a mental health case study....:lookaroun :lol:

I don't grade WDW on a curve because the curve was set by them to begin with. I grade everyone else on what used to be WDW's curve. That's why the Dream cruise we took scored so amazingly well with us. I'm hopeful we'll find things at DL in November just as incredible. That's what we're in search of.

Maybe we're different (and that's cool ... I have friends that think they need nine telephones in a tiny townhouse ... oh, and four computers ... and six TVs, including a 60-inch home theater ... I sorta love them and think they're nuts at the same time) ... but $350 a night for a standard hotel room in Orlando is absurdly high. I don't know what your financial situation is, but I can't imagine paying that and thinking the room and facilities you got were acceptable.

We splurged on club level so that explains the overly crazy price tag. It was our anniversary celebration.

Yep, it is absurd. We're not wealthy by any stretch. Neither of us even have a college degree. We've worked extremely hard to get everything we have which is why we demand as much value as possible for every nickel spent. The old man happened to work nearly every day (weekends, etc.) for the first 8 months of last year. Crazy hours. Lots of OT. That's how we could afford more of a splurge than usual. Again, something we worked hard and sacrificed a lot to earn. It blows to spend weekends and things without the old man around. We all made the sacrifices to get the balls-out vacation payoff. I guess that factors into why we're a bit more sore about what was lacking. Knowing that so many other families do the same, I'm perplexed as to how there aren't more out there like me who get to the end of the trip, look back, and think "WTH????"

You could have Pricelined a great room in the area for $50-80 a night and got well more than what you paid for.

Yep. Not a mistake I'll be in a hurry to repeat. :wave:

When I complained at YC I was paying $169 a night on a FLA resident special ... and I thought that was high to begin with. Now, I doubt I'd stay at YC for anything more than $99 a night (which will never happen).

You can barely get a value resort with a discount for less than $99/night anymore. Those first trips we had at Pop, tho, were great at only $55/night.

You may want to check out the brand new (well it was stripped down bare and rebuilt) Sheraton LBV Resort where I stayed last week. I used SPG points, but the going rate was $109 (some folks were paying $49 as a grand reopening special as the location used to be the Sheraton Safari Hotel) and I'd put much of the room/resort on par with a Disney deluxe. The service was amazing ... every worker made eye contact and asked how you were doing and if they could do anything for you etc.

We'll definitely check it out. Thanks for the recommend. Off the top of my head I think that Sheraton has a great location, too. Right? Just outside the gates?

 

[Bolna]

Oh no! Filthy unkept carpets are not an Americsn thing at all! I keep my installed carpets clean enough to sit on & not be afraid (& we have a toy schnauzer). Our area rugs downstairs get hauled out every year or so for steam cleaning or I replace them. I'm not a clean freak by far but visible filth isn't just disgusting to look at, it's unsanitary and gross. . :wave:

Sweetpee, I did not mean to say that filthy carpets are an American thing!! I have actually been impressed in some places how well they are able to keep carpets clean in public areas. It is just that my feeling is that here in Germany you will very rarely see a room which is open to the public (be it a restaurant, airport etc.) to have carpets. Hotel hallways and libraries come to mind as common exceptions for the noise reasons I am sure that someone else mentioned. Especially in a restaurant, where food will fall down or an airport where lots and lots of people walk through every day, I think a smooth surface would be so much easier to keep clean. I hope that does make sense to you! :wave:

 

[Bolna]

That is the reason. Hell, they just went and put carpeting down in my local (SoFla) Rainforest Cafe for this reason ... but carpet and food and beverage and people don't mix ... and it looks filthy overnight.

You could steam clean nightly, which Disney would never do, and it still wouldn't come clean.

Gotta be a better solution.

~How about grass and wood chips?~

I think it also depends a bit on what type of restaurant it is - a food court you will have more spilled drinks and food falling onto the floor than at a high end restaurant. Does the carpet really cancel that much noise?

And I like the grass and wood chips idea - would work as great theming at the Land pavilion!!

 

[flynnibus]

Does the carpet really cancel that much noise?

Yes

The alternative is to sound soak the other surface in the same direction... the ceiling. You hang panels in the ceiling to absorb reflections from the floor.

 

[WDW1974]

I'm right there with you. The rack rates are jacked beyond anything other than laughable for what you get so that discounted rates can be almost tolerable. However, even at 40% off the prices are still way out of line with where they should be for what's there. My pixie-colored glasses just ain't workin' so good, I guess. The urge to go balls-out on WDW resorts has gone by the wayside.

Staying at WDW resorts and dining at WDW restaurants became as important a part as the parks for me by the late 80s. And it sorta lasted right on until 4-5 years ago (I've only stayed at BWV, PO and A$$ in that period as well as on-property non-Disney locales like DD Hilton and Swan).

I've likely canceled at least 5-6 Disney reservations in the same period because I got much better deals elsewhere.

But since the resort experience was so important to my visits, not staying there has greatly reduced my desire to visit stale, poorly maintained theme parks.

You're right. Just because I can see thru the pixie dust for what's actually being delivered at those sick rates and refuse to pay-to-stay doesn't mean there isn't a line of folks behind me more than happy to plunk down the money. Why should Disney do anything to improve when there's plenty of folks still chomping at the bit to have whatever is put out there? That's where I take a stand. I think you do, too. :animwink:

I don't know if its ignorance or pixie dust or WDW marketing MAGIC that convinces people to pay absurd prices for subpar service and become basically hostage to the Mouse. Likely some of all ...

And, again, I am no travel neophyte. I likely have traveled more (Disney and non theme park travel) more than 98-99% of the folks here. I know value.

Thank you for the compliment. :kiss:[/QUOTE}

I calls them likes I sees them!!!

Nope, nothing will get improved as long as there's no need to. As stated above, I may think what Disney delivers is no longer worthwhile for me but there's plenty who believe it is for them. My annual or more vacation bucks, no matter how much that amount is, is a drop in the ocean for WDW. They don't care what I think. It'd have to be a larger portion of their audience raising a stink. If you think it would be helpful to start some sort of communication I will but I'm highly skeptic.

I agree and disagree with that statement ... they don't care, that's been proven to me time and time again (go argue at City Hall over Pecos Bill's Taco Salad without the salad and see the contempt they have for their guests!)

That said, they don't want people like you contacting their execs ... they don't want to have to respond to legit complaints ... and the more people do so the better a chance that actual positive change happens.

You are just a meaningless individual in the corporate Disney cog ... but the more disastisfied guests that force WDW's exec 'leadership team' to actually talk/interact/deal with them, the more meetings will be held about what needs to be done (maybe it will come down to hiring someone like me to do a better job of lying and spinning to guests than the current folks!:wave

Well, we did in an indirect way get hooked up with a manager after our $350 disappointment. Filippe was a very gracious fellow. Even better was the poolside server, Rocky, that put us in touch with him who is a completely incredible human being and if you ever get the chance to meet her she's frickin' awesome. Anywhoo, Filippe offered us a 2nd dinner on him (sans alcoholic beverages) to give them another shot. We debated it because it was our last night and we aren't the type to take advantage or try to score freebies. Our intent in speaking to Filippe was to bring to his attention the poor cuts and incorrect cooking. We ended up giving Yachtsman another shot because we wanted to leave that restaurant feeling like it was totally incredible the way the reviews we read score the steaks there. Even at the price of ~free~ I still can't give those steaks a better review than, say, our local Roadhouse. Seriously. Just not the quality for the price they ask. :shrug:

Interesting. I would have suggested Shula's over at the Dolphin for a great steak myself. But I've never had a meal at Yachtsman that was less than outstanding, so clearly as they've doubled the prices they've cut the quality.

And I get you weren't trying to get a free meal. When I complain, it's because things aren't right and I assume the staff wants things done right. I had a miserable meal at Citricos in 2001 (as a VIP guest, no less). The GM (who honestly looked like he was wearing J.C. Penny clothing) offered us a free meal the next night. (Food was actually good, but not exceptional ... while service was godawful) We didn't return and I haven't been back since.

Pretty much. That would be my overall for the interior of the YC. Stormalong Bay was incredible, tho. Mad props there. Clean poolside areas, fun facilities, well-kept, and the best poolside service I've ever had anywhere. I only wish we could've paid a set fee and had Rocky just come be part of our group for the afternoon hours we spent there.

Yeah, Stomalong Bay is pretty impressive. Unfortunately, I tend to think they've used the pool as such a selling point, they feel the rest of the resort can be run like a 2 1/2 star hotel in Tulsa.

No Disney resort should ever feel rundown. None. Not when they're charging $134 for the cheapest room at their motels.

If he checked our credit he'd prob'ly wet himself. We've worked long & hard to keep things as near perfect as humanly possible. I'm proud to say that our dedication to a responsible existence has paid off. Oh, plus my dad is retired military! Unfortunately, freebies won't buy me (as previously mentioned) and there's not a magic number. Well, okay, pay off my house or my car maybe - :lol: Aaaand your last statement is what I'm thinking so why bother?

Great credit means they'll take you more seriously (I won't go into the ethical implications that companies, and Disney isn't an exception here, have no right to size you up as a guest with personal information before deciding how to handle guest recovery efforts with you). Having Dad as retired US military also gets you points if they find out (or you simply tell them) since military families have largely made up a huge portion of domestic guests in the post 9/11 military-industrial war machine era.

But if you wonder if it's worth your time, then again read my prior comments.

Loooove to be a mental health case study....:lookaroun :lol:

Hate to tell ya, but you are way too 'normal' to likely make the cut. I'm looking at the wackos ... from the people who live in the parks 4-5-6 days a week ... to adults who play with plush and cry at Wishes ... to people who get questionable government disabilities to move to O-town and start Disney Lifestyle businesses on taxpayers' dimes ... to people who use Disney and fan sites/Twitter etc for $exual hookups ... to people with mental issues who at age 28, 37 or 56 are looking to relive the childhood that never was and never will be.

Doesn't sound like you fit any of the above categories.

I don't grade WDW on a curve because the curve was set by them to begin with. I grade everyone else on what used to be WDW's curve. That's why the Dream cruise we took scored so amazingly well with us. I'm hopeful we'll find things at DL in November just as incredible. That's what we're in search of.

DCL has never let me down (except maybe dinner on the first night of my transatlantic cruise in 2010, but they more than made up for it!) ... even though I have no regard for Karl Holz, he is living off the great product that Matt Ouimet and Tom McAlpin and Bill Ernest (sp?) started, the product remains high. And Karl is retiring this year anyway.

As to DLR, if you grade it on its own merits and don't whine about it being in the middle of an urban area and not having 30,000 acres etc ... you will LOVE it. And pretty soon you (or likely your kids) will be begging to cruise and go to DL and the WDW addiction will be gone.

If I broke it, then trust me ... anyone can!:lol:

We splurged on club level so that explains the overly crazy price tag. It was our anniversary celebration.

Yep, it is absurd. We're not wealthy by any stretch. Neither of us even have a college degree. We've worked extremely hard to get everything we have which is why we demand as much value as possible for every nickel spent. The old man happened to work nearly every day (weekends, etc.) for the first 8 months of last year. Crazy hours. Lots of OT. That's how we could afford more of a splurge than usual. Again, something we worked hard and sacrificed a lot to earn. It blows to spend weekends and things without the old man around. We all made the sacrifices to get the balls-out vacation payoff. I guess that factors into why we're a bit more sore about what was lacking. Knowing that so many other families do the same, I'm perplexed as to how there aren't more out there like me who get to the end of the trip, look back, and think "WTH????"

That just makes it worse to me. You went for a special time and you had to keep ignoring that fact that things weren't up to par. If I had to work eight months without a day off ... well, I'd likely be a real Spirit as I've never worked more than 3-4 weeks without days off (and didn't love that!) ... but, more importantly, I'd be so demanding of a special vacation because clearly you (OR THE OLD MAN!) EARNED IT!

I can't explain why there aren't more folks like you ... I believe there are more than you/I think, though. They just say screw it and don't go back. I have noticed that while some Americans love to complain and have big mouths that we are becoming more of an accept anything (or almost anything) people. We just use that post 9/11, post 2008 economic meltdown 'it's the new normal' type of resignation and it gets worse all the time.

I don't like to complain (seriously ... I hear the snickers around :lol ... but I hate getting a substandard product or service or being told to go eff myself in a polite way (as if there is one!) much more.

We'll definitely check it out. Thanks for the recommend. Off the top of my head I think that Sheraton has a great location, too. Right? Just outside the gates?

Yep ... right near the Crossroads at LBV (loads of dining options) at 535 and Palm Parkway. The rooms are great. Totally gutted and sorta retro (maybe like another version of what Contemporary could have been) and a phenomenal pool area, nice lobby, shop, restaurant etc.

Tell em the Spirit sent you.

~And they'll say WHO?!??!~