Spirited Thoughts, News, Observations etc.

OK, hide the women and the children ... most importantly send the fanbois to bed with their plush and tell them to hide under the covers ... waaaay down under them because it's time for some Spirited thoughts, observations, news and anecdotes from a long weekend at The World Maintenance Forgot, yes WDW.

Where to start? With a conclusion? Or should I just work on down?

Should I start with the good ... things like seeing friends, having great weather, appreciating some things that the fan community tends to ignore and seeing EPCOT in its best colors?

Or ... do I focus on everything else? Because all going to WDW did for me this weekend was exceed my already amazingly low expectations for the state of WDW infrastructure and show quality (hey, they did exceed expectations, right?) and get me more excited for my future visits to DLP, possibly BGW, DL ... and, hopefully in the not too distant future, the Asian resorts again too.

Let's start with the basics. Freshness. If you had visited WDW in 2006 and hadn't returned in six years, you would find no appreciable new product in three of four parks.

You would find show quality that already had issues showing more issues than the typical fanboi in therapy. Well, that's if you can actually get to the MK because the crumbling monorail system has to be shut down all day from 11:30 a.m to 6 p.m. to do track work in the midst of one of the busiest times of the year ... imagine paying $500-700 a night for a room at the GF or Poly with monorail convenience touted (wonder what guest recovery they are doing there!) ... but let's assume you find your way there.

Let's start with the stuff the fan community is all lathered up for, namely the Storybook Circus mini-land expansion of Fantasyland. What did I think of it?

Not very much at all.

As usual, the hype was much greater than the product, which can't be viewed in a vacuum in a park that is crumbling and has no wow factor at all anymore.

In the day, Dumbo's primary colors and the red painted construction fences all around come off as garish ... befitting a circus, no doubt ... but Old Man Disney was no more a fan of circuses than he was of amusement parks and piers and the shady elements that all attracted. So, we have a new spinner that is prettier than the last. And it spins high enough to peek over construction walls and we all know how much that has become en vogue in O-Town of late.

It is a beautiful kinetic piece at night when the lighting is largely coming from the white and red bulbs that rim the queue (likely more of a makeshift deal now until the old Dumbo starts spinning across the way) and the LEDs embedded in the fountains underneath. But it is still Dumbo.

Sort of like the Barnstormer is still the Barnstormer, just missing much in the way of theming. Its prior incarnation had some whimsy, this doesn't. But they weren't getting rid of the only kiddie coaster in the park, so this was a cheap fix. Oh, and thanks to Bob Iger working with a chainsaw, you can now watch Disney buses and CMs driving to/fro work behind the MK as you walk up the queue if you peer left. I will never get what Phil and TDO have against trees, but they certainly do.

Nothing else is open beyond a much nicer train station that is still a train station ... and a set of new restrooms (someone needs to page Talking Head to this thread stat!) What I found amazing is that Disney was too cheap to actually connect these facilities to the park's main water supply, so they are using water from the immediate area that is untreated (or perhaps non-filtered/cleansed is more appropriate) so you have bizarre signs saying the water is 'non potable' (that means you can't drink it for those with limited vocabularies) over toilets. I know Disney's prices are crazy for a Coke, but over the toilet?!? ... Of course, the reason is they have colored the water blue because otherwise it would be a very icky color and folks would constantly be complaining that something isn't right.

Are the details nice? Sure. But they are very basic. I was much more excited by leaf patterns in the walkways around Old Man Island at Dixie Landings 20 years ago than I am by various hoof prints and 'peanuts' embedded in this area.

So much of this area also suffers from having both exposed coaster track (Disney fanbois seem to have issues with this at UNI) and show buildings just sticking out like a Duffy alone on a shelf full of Minnies.

If this is what Disney believes will raise the bar in O-Town ... well, no ... they don't. They understand what they have built and why. This is about capacity ... and NEXT GEN ... and keeping folks from being bored out of their minds by offering something 'new'.

It's in 'soft opening' now, but let's be blunt: they had to get this open and open now. They have so little capacity in this park due to 15 years of taking away and not adding. MK just isn't a very pleasant place right now at all with crowds and walls and lots of attractions that have seen far better days.

Again, it also seems that Ops and WDI simply can't get on the same page no matter what ... Dumbo opens with small plants where every little kid (and plenty of big ones) are going to stand, so the result is the foliage that was there Monday was trampled and mostly dead or dying by Friday. How they miss these basics is beyond me, although I think communication and common sense are both lacking.

Now, what else was 'new' (to me) at MK? Spin the Fanboi? Pin the Tail on Meg? Dole Whip tees (I mean, REALLY?!?!) ... or how about the latest way to hook OCD fanbois and why it is so important to NEXT GEN.

I'll see you all a little later ... like in the next post!
 

WDW1974

Well-Known Member
Original Poster
I have no issue with you reporting, as Lee stated you do, facts about what you see. If you see paint peeling, it's peeling. If you see an a.a. not moving, it is in fact, not working. I do, however, have an issue with the above quoted statement. You simply can not tell people that if they don't see what you, and some of the other veterans see, they must have blinders on.

Simple example. Two weeks ago I rode Small World a couple of times with a large group of friends. None of us noticed what you mentioned. As a matter of fact, when we got off the ride, we commented on how great the dolls looked and how the audio seemed to be improved from last time. We simply did not see any issues. It doesn't mean they aren't there, it means what I said...we didn't see them.

Gotta run ... but did want to get to this first.

What you say is accurate, but if an AA is broken (like the Yeti -- I was visiting with friends that rode last week and weren't even aware there was such a thing or where they missed him), it is broken whether 1% of parkgoers or 87% notice it. It isn't right or justified in any way.

You may not have had blinders on when you rode Small World, but all I can tell you is you missed a TREMENDOUS number of issues (some obvious, some not so) and they all existed whether you saw them or didn't. ... Maybe blinders was a bad term ... maybe it's just a case of some people being more observant, some being easily distracted by children, relatives etc.

I guess on some level it comes down to the tree falling in the forest after Phil Holmes takes a chain saw to it ... even if no one is around, the trees falls!:D
 

Master Yoda

Pro Star Wars geek.
Premium Member
I am not suggesting conspiracy. I am simply saying we don't know what happened because we weren't there ... and I well know the power TWDC wields politically and with local law enforcement. If you've ever seen someone injured at WDW (and, of course, they try and shoo you away if you do) then you realize that Disney's first priority is risk assessment and damage control well before it is the health of the visitor.
That is suggesting conspiracy. By saying "I am simply saying we don't know what happened because we weren't there" you are doing the same thing that Joe Rogan does when he drops the "I am just asking questions" mantra when he spews him moon landing hoax garbage. You just implied that law enforcement falsified the report because it was Disney.


I am not stretching anything. A bus killed a child. That is fact. Whether the child himself was at fault doesn't change the tragic result.
Again, yes you are. It was a horrible thing that a child died, but the harsh reality is that child died due to his own mistake and not a bus's mistake.

Or would you like to blame the CMs for the monorail pilot's death, not WDW for its lax training and overriding safety protocols to move more folks around and avoid whining guests (because the system has become inefficient)?
No because that would be incorrect. The NTSB report showed that the procedures were more at fault than the people. Saying otherwise would be stretching the truth, embellishing or any one of other colorful ways to say lying.

Facts are friends not food.
 

Scuttle

Well-Known Member
Gotta run ... but did want to get to this first.

What you say is accurate, but if an AA is broken (like the Yeti -- I was visiting with friends that rode last week and weren't even aware there was such a thing or where they missed him), it is broken whether 1% of parkgoers or 87% notice it. It isn't right or justified in any way.

You may not have had blinders on when you rode Small World, but all I can tell you is you missed a TREMENDOUS number of issues (some obvious, some not so) and they all existed whether you saw them or didn't. ... Maybe blinders was a bad term ... maybe it's just a case of some people being more observant, some being easily distracted by children, relatives etc.

I guess on some level it comes down to the tree falling in the forest after Phil Holmes takes a chain saw to it ... even if no one is around, the trees falls!:D

So many issues. I couldn't believe it when I rode it last month. I think you do have to have blinders on to not see the problems on Small World. The ride is so slow that you have all day to see all the broken effects. What bothered me is that in early October I noticed the hippos eye broken and when I rode it Feb 29 guess what it was still broken. 5 months and they can't fix an easily fixable eye on the hippo. SAD
 

Lucky

Well-Known Member
I think you do have to have blinders on to not see the problems on Small World. The ride is so slow that you have all day to see all the broken effects. SAD

That's the answer - if Small World had Sea Raycers we wouldn't have time to notice what's broken.
 

Monty

Brilliant...and Canadian
In the Parks
No
I've stayed at every WDW resort except ASMo and the DVC resorts that have opened since 2009, so I understand your desire to see them all. I even agree with your taste in Pop and especially PO. But I can no longer justify the absurd price points for service that isn't what it should. Again, if the Sheraton LBV can provide real bath sheets at the pools, why should I get All Star towels at the GF? The answer is the customers don't demand more. That's Walmarting.



You didn't have to admit to the insanity, most of us just assumed:animwink:.
I wasn't aware you were an amputee (doesn't usually come up in casual MAGICal conversation), although someone I believe told me you had some disability (so I guess that's what they meant). I have had amputees in my family as well, so I won't make a joke about WDW costing ya ...

I keep forgetting whether I've asked you this, but have you been to DLR?

I joke about my disabilities regularly, others doing so has never bothered me. :cool:

Been to DLR twice, once in 2004 with son and Ex. Second time a solo trip for D55. Both were excellent experiences. In 2004, we went for a week in February, the only downside was that it rained every day but one. The CMs made the mistake of constantly saying "You shudda been here LAST week! It was beautiful!" :rolleyes: My son and I thoroughly enjoyed ourselves despite the weather [my Ex grumped so much I had no problem convincing my son that future trips would be "boys only"! :D].

D55 was fantastic, though Disney's last-minute efforts to put on a celebration A) messed up a lot of WDWCelebrations' plans, and B) were rather blah. :shrug: Still had a great vacation.

I find DL very cramped and hard to navigate. Rough, uneven pavement wreaks havoc on my feet. But the exerience was still worth going.
 
I'm not sure you fully understand the meaning of that word.
Just sayin'....:shrug:

Obligatory:

inconceivable.jpg


Anywho. I'm kind of dreading what I might notice on some attractions come my next trip, but it seldom ruins my day there. I don't recall noticing much over the summer.
 
Now '74 got in your head. You will see things that are not there because of his lies. He has ruined your future trips. If you ignore him you will still have fun.

... no.

I'm aware of WDW's shortcomings. When I'm not at Disney-- which is far, far too often for my tastes, I'm on the forums. I notice things on the photos posted there. I'm aware of it all. And I'm talking inescapable, irrefutable flaws, not whether I like something or not. You cannot deny that something is broken when it is. You cannot say a hippo's eye is working when it looks like the poor thing has developed a twitch.

I'm aware of the flaws, the need for refurbishment, all o' that, and to say I still enjoy myself at the parks would be to underestimate the matter entirely. For the most part, I don't notice it while there because I'm so happy just to be at the parks. Does that mean I'm unaware? No. Does that mean the things don't exist? No. Does the fact that I can still enjoy myself mean that nothing needs to be fixed or touched up? Definitely not.

I assure you, there has been no inception of ideas in my head in regards to this; not on 74's part or anybody. I haven't even slept this week, so anybody wanting to try it will have to wait.

I've been aware of everything before trips in the past and nothing-- not one thing-- has been ruined; WDW is still home, flaws and all.

Ignorance isn't bliss, buddy. Not at all.
 

MerlinTheGoat

Well-Known Member
'74 comes on this board to attack people, post half-truths, argue, etc. all characteristics of the word troll.

He did none of those things at all, that's very rude and uncalled for to spread such venom about someone who is well respected here. Trolling is what you're doing right now (creating posts with no purpose other than to attack others with no contribution to the topic).

I'm not one to speak for the mods, but as a member here (even one who hasn't been here for too long), i can assure you that i've witnessed quite a few people receive a ban for doing the exact same sort of thing you are doing right now (very recently in fact). It's in your best interests not to test the mod's patience, they already deleted several of your posts in this thread.

I myself highly agree with everything '74 has noted. Maintenance in particular being a sicking aspect of how the parks are run. I had gone years without visiting WDW from 1997 to 2010. Upon arriving in 2010, i immediately noticed things were looking pretty dismal for the entire place. Not just attractions being replaced by worse ones, but everything was just not up to standards. This was before i joined WDWmagic btw, i had no clue that the parks had been left to rot due to bad management. So i wasn't going into it with any sort of expectation for it being bad. Turns out afterward, i was right and everyone was reporting how quality had dropped (even the insiders, not just random fanboys who have nostalgia tinted glasses).

I was very happy about seeing the newly restored Tiki Room this past visit however (only gripe being the fountain not being present). And i really enjoyed Star Tours 2. Sadly though, even my mom was noticing things being out of whack maintenance wise, and she's not even a member here or knows much about the latest bad maintenance news. She pointed out several issues with American Adventure and Carousel of Progress that i myself noticed but kept to myself.
 

marni1971

Park History nut
Premium Member
Now '74 got in your head. You will see things that are not there because of his lies. He has ruined your future trips. If you ignore him you will still have fun.

74 may have a.... Unique posting style, but I will vouch that bus incidents aside his observations of the resorts shortcomings are 100% true.

If you ignore most of his his notes you choose to ignore the hard facts.
 

flynnibus

Premium Member
but the bottom line is the bus killed the child.

Isn't that like saying 'bottom line is.. the tree killed the guy' when someone speeds and loses control and hits a tree?

Or blaming the bullet for killing the guy who was shot?

But as for the FW incident ...perhaps, having buses driving so close to roadways with bike riders isn't smart?:shrug:

You mean like every public street in the world?
 

RSoxNo1

Well-Known Member
I think at this point the Yeti has unfortunately turned into more of a punchline amongst fanboys than a point of contention. I try to distance myself from the long list of maintenance issues because I'd rather not be consumed by them when I'm visiting. It's not that I don't want things to be working, it's that I only want to notice things that are wrong - I don't want to be on the lookout for broken effects.

Being on the lookout for broken effects has partially ruined Splash Mountain for me. I've had good luck with the Hopping Brer Rabbit lately, but I see countless other broken effects on that ride. Part of it is my familiarity and fondness for the attraction, but I can't really help myself. I don't want to see every ride ruined.
 

Pitchforkman

New Member
I think at this point the Yeti has unfortunately turned into more of a punchline amongst fanboys than a point of contention. I try to distance myself from the long list of maintenance issues because I'd rather not be consumed by them when I'm visiting. It's not that I don't want things to be working, it's that I only want to notice things that are wrong - I don't want to be on the lookout for broken effects.

Being on the lookout for broken effects has partially ruined Splash Mountain for me. I've had good luck with the Hopping Brer Rabbit lately, but I see countless other broken effects on that ride. Part of it is my familiarity and fondness for the attraction, but I can't really help myself. I don't want to see every ride ruined.

I feel the same way, Splash is my favorite ride and i feel sad that the state of it is so bad. I still enjoy it but i wish they would really do something about the issues with it.
 

dreamscometrue

Well-Known Member
Yeah, it all boils down to money.
They are running as cheap and lean as they can in order to keep profits up in the face of lower attendance and discounting.

They, for the most part, don't care about show. Most TDO suits never actually visit the parks or ride the rides. As long as the spreadsheets look good, they're quite happy.

GLaDOS summed up the situation perfectly.

So, why invest money on things like refurbishing the Fountain of Nations and cleaning the monorail beams? Surely*, if TDO brass doesn't think guests will notice tarps on boulders or broken effects of which they are not even aware, why spend money on 'unnecessary' things like fountains, monorail beams, etc.?

Also, who decides the budget for attraction maintanence? You mentioned Burbank a couple of times, but I confess I don't understand their role with respect to TDO. In other words, who would you ultimately 'blame' for the state of the WDW parks?

*And don't call me Shirley
 

dreamscometrue

Well-Known Member
So many issues. I couldn't believe it when I rode it last month. I think you do have to have blinders on to not see the problems on Small World. The ride is so slow that you have all day to see all the broken effects. What bothered me is that in early October I noticed the hippos eye broken and when I rode it Feb 29 guess what it was still broken. 5 months and they can't fix an easily fixable eye on the hippo. SAD

Here's a question for you:

How many times have you ridden Small World in your life? Just give me a number. :wave:
 

asianway

Well-Known Member
Of course, WDW did kill a CM on monorails due to poor training and ignoring/overriding safety protocols ... and a bus driver did run over and kill a child on a bike at FW ... and how many 'minor' incidents are we just not aware of because no one wound up in a body bag?.

Now there's a post up on the news boards that they want to add ten minutes to character set times in high heat conditions. What happened to Safety first?
 

Pitchforkman

New Member
Now there's a post up on the news boards that they want to add ten minutes to character set times in high heat conditions. What happened to Safety first?

So instead of 30 minutes they want them working for 40? How dare them not be concerned for the prima donna's safety :rolleyes:

Since you have cast that have to be out in the sun for hours on end in costumes that do not translate well in heat the characters can survive ten more minutes.
 

xdan0920

Think for yourselfer
So instead of 30 minutes they want them working for 40? How dare them not be concerned for the prima donna's safety :rolleyes:

Since you have cast that have to be out in the sun for hours on end in costumes that do not translate well in heat the characters can survive ten more minutes.

Yes, those prima donna CMs in Goofy costumes....
 

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