Spirited News, Observations & Thoughts IV

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RSoxNo1

Well-Known Member
So trying to bring this back on topic, I have some questions for our insiders: How much did the 2008 downturn in the economy hurt the parks? Was there ever a plan to announce Monster's Inc Coaster and Mysterious Island around the same time as New Fantasyland? Was that the intended attack plan for Harry Potter that never materialized?
 

marni1971

Park History nut
Premium Member
So trying to bring this back on topic, I have some questions for our insiders: How much did the 2008 downturn in the economy hurt the parks? Was there ever a plan to announce Monster's Inc Coaster and Mysterious Island around the same time as New Fantasyland? Was that the intended attack plan for Harry Potter that never materialized?
Plans a plenty.

Full Space Mountain rebuild. JII4 and Japan dark ride. SkyDance. MI Coaster. Mys Is variation. Mermaid as a gift, open for WDWs 40th.
 

RSoxNo1

Well-Known Member
Plans a plenty.

Full Space Mountain rebuild. JII4 and Japan dark ride. SkyDance. MI Coaster. Mys Is variation. Mermaid as a gift, open for WDWs 40th.
I know I'm not really going out on a limb here, but Disney is really hurting because of this. Yes, profits are up but this shortsightedness could have attendance being 5-10% higher at Epcot, DHS and DAK.

On top of this, it very well may have helped Fastpass+ work a little better because there were more new attractions.
 

Future Guy

Active Member
Plans a plenty.

Full Space Mountain rebuild. JII4 and Japan dark ride. SkyDance. MI Coaster. Mys Is variation. Mermaid as a gift, open for WDWs 40th.

The downturn was just a convenient excuse. Yes things were scary there for a bit when it looked like Wall Street was going to implode. But that phase was over fairly quickly and large corporations like Disney were back to making record profits. (Ordinary people got the short end of the stick, but when do we not?) And did we get our Space Mountain rebuild? Did we get JII4 and a Japan dark ride and the long-rumored Monsters Inc coaster and all those other things? No, we did not.

I'm tired of hearing that we would have gotten this or that long-desired WDW improvement if not for some crisis that ended up making a very small and temporary dent in Disney's gargantuan profits. If the necessary people within the company had a passion for the theme parks and a desire to make these projects happen then they would happen once the financial outlook improved. It seems to me that the various economic crises are being used more an an excuse to kill projects that management never wanted in the first place.
 

doctornick

Well-Known Member
Plans a plenty.

Full Space Mountain rebuild. JII4 and Japan dark ride. SkyDance. MI Coaster. Mys Is variation. Mermaid as a gift, open for WDWs 40th.

SkyDance? Could you give some details?

Also, just in general, I still don't fully understand why, if there are these plans sitting on the shelf that were previously in advance stages of development, they aren't dusted off and put into motion ASAP. I just don't understand how TDO and Burbank can be so unaware as to the capacity/"staleness" issues that WDW has especially if attendance truly has been dropping at the non-MK parks (or certainly time spent in those parks and money spent has dropped); especially with a lack of options for FP+ making the attraction needs more glaring.

There doesn't seem to be anything that is going to be completed in 2015-16. Maybe we'll get a small update for something like Soarin', but there are 4 gates. Opening at least one new ride in one of the parks each year seems like a ridiculously low standard and we aren't even seeing that.
 

lazyboy97o

Well-Known Member
SkyDance? Could you give some details?

Also, just in general, I still don't fully understand why, if there are these plans sitting on the shelf that were previously in advance stages of development, they aren't dusted off and put into motion ASAP. I just don't understand how TDO and Burbank can be so unaware as to the capacity/"staleness" issues that WDW has especially if attendance truly has been dropping at the non-MK parks (or certainly time spent in those parks and money spent has dropped); especially with a lack of options for FP+ making the attraction needs more glaring.
Of the seven things @marni1971 listed, only two are tied to a Disney franchise and one of those two was built.
 

doctornick

Well-Known Member
Of the seven things @marni1971 listed, only two are tied to a Disney franchise and one of those two was built.

Well, if you want to be technical, Disney did make a 20K under the Sea movie that is related to the Mysterious Island (I'm assuming the two franchises you are referring to are LM and Monsters Inc).
 

The Empress Lilly

Well-Known Member
The downturn was just a convenient excuse. Yes things were scary there for a bit when it looked like Wall Street was going to implode. But that phase was over fairly quickly and large corporations like Disney were back to making record profits. (Ordinary people got the short end of the stick, but when do we not?) And did we get our Space Mountain rebuild? Did we get JII4 and a Japan dark ride and the long-rumored Monsters Inc coaster and all those other things? No, we did not.

I'm tired of hearing that we would have gotten this or that long-desired WDW improvement if not for some crisis that ended up making a very small and temporary dent in Disney's gargantuan profits. If the necessary people within the company had a passion for the theme parks and a desire to make these projects happen then they would happen once the financial outlook improved. It seems to me that the various economic crises are being used more an an excuse to kill projects that management never wanted in the first place.
It sucks, but it has been that way since day one. The oil crisis of 1973 put an end to some of the finest plans for WDW. The mini-crises of the early 80s and early 90s postponed and lessened planned investments. And 9-11 and the 2008 meltdown did too.

It's a miracle that something even ever gets build!

There seems to be a pervasive 'Roy Disney' culture in TWDC, where the slightest dent in the enonomic forecasts grants automatic victory to those arguing for restraint and scaled down plans.
You would think that after half a century theme parks would've come to be recognised not as a risky business but as a tried and trusted cash machine. With the exception of EuroDisney, TWDC has always shot itself in the foot by underinvesting instead of by overinvesting.
 

The Empress Lilly

Well-Known Member
You are not alone.
I saw 'Brave' by chance with friends who were interested in seeing it.
I found the look of the film very nice, and the music wonderful...but little else held my attention.
Came across as a 'chick flick' in a sense...all that Mom/Daughter drama and plot twists.

I do appreciate the Merida character, but little else in the film really came across as overly memorable.
It was a 'see once, and you are done' kind of film.

The Little Mermaid i could watch over and over, but i lean more towards Trad Animation anyway.
There is some marvelous character animation here.
Exactly my thoughts! I adored Merida the character, loved everything about the movie - the setting, the looks, the characters. But then...nothing. Nothing happened, the plot was dull, nothing was followed through. A complete dud.

I blame the midway change in directors.
I feel they did to Brave what they did to Imagination: they took something that was once awesome, and managed to turn it into something entirely forgetable with an awesome central character as its main redeeming quality.
 

RSoxNo1

Well-Known Member
The downturn was just a convenient excuse. Yes things were scary there for a bit when it looked like Wall Street was going to implode. But that phase was over fairly quickly and large corporations like Disney were back to making record profits. (Ordinary people got the short end of the stick, but when do we not?) And did we get our Space Mountain rebuild? Did we get JII4 and a Japan dark ride and the long-rumored Monsters Inc coaster and all those other things? No, we did not.

I'm tired of hearing that we would have gotten this or that long-desired WDW improvement if not for some crisis that ended up making a very small and temporary dent in Disney's gargantuan profits. If the necessary people within the company had a passion for the theme parks and a desire to make these projects happen then they would happen once the financial outlook improved. It seems to me that the various economic crises are being used more an an excuse to kill projects that management never wanted in the first place.
I definitely agree that it was a convenient excuse, it really is a shame.
 

lazyboy97o

Well-Known Member
Well, if you want to be technical, Disney did make a 20K under the Sea movie that is related to the Mysterious Island (I'm assuming the two franchises you are referring to are LM and Monsters Inc).
A single film made in the 1950s does not a franchise make.
 

flynnibus

Premium Member
As far as demand is concerned, it is exactly the same thing.

Not the same. The shopping demand is purely manufactured. The Black Friday demand is artificial - created by sales and limited stock. Who wants to go out shopping at 5am??? No one - they do it because of the scenario created by the retailers. And now in a race to beat each other in the last 5 years things are completely out if control.

In a greed frenzy people have lost sight of common sense and the consumption society has ran rampant and the workers bear the cross.
 

Figments Friend

Well-Known Member
Exactly my thoughts! I adored Merida the character, loved everything about the movie - the setting, the looks, the characters. But then...nothing. Nothing happened, the plot was dull, nothing was followed through. A complete dud.

I blame the midway change in directors.
I feel they did to Brave what they did to Imagination: they took something that was once awesome, and managed to turn it into something entirely forgetable with an awesome central character as its main redeeming quality.

Agree with you here.

I kept waiting for something to happen in 'Brave'.
I waited and waited..as seemingly endless story setup / future plot points were set up through the course of the film expecting the 'big payoff' at the end, and then...'nothing' as you noted.

This is why the film was a disappointment to me.
You had the story build up slowly...slowly.. seemingly leading you up to something...some important revelation. When it happens, it felt 'empty' and not as impactful. The problem may have been that i had guessed the ending/revelation about 30 minutes before the movie reached it's climax. I had no prior knowledge of the plot, and avoided 'spoilers'.
Despite this, i guessed the end....half way through the film unspooling!
This is usually a bad sign if your audience is already ahead of your plot points, and already knows the ending half way through. Hard to describe..but it was awkward and somewhat mediocre.
That was my impression, anyway.

Similar to a slick marketing campaign...leaves you expecting so much more then what was delivered. We have all experienced movies like that.

In the end it is not at all as strong as you were being led to believe it was going to be.
Loved the look of it, loved the music....enjoy Merida as a character quite a bit....but not the film. As i said earlier, it was a 'one and done'.


You could have a point there regarding the change in direction mid point.
 
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The Visionary Soul

Well-Known Member
Actually it got a little further than concept.
Eh, Don fleshes out his concepts pretty well right off the bat, so I wouldn't say that. Either way, it doesn't really matter because there was no way in hell that Meg and Al were going to approve the budget for it when Reflections was still bringing in people to stay until close.
 

GiveMeTheMusic

Well-Known Member
Eh, Don fleshes out his concepts pretty well right off the bat, so I wouldn't say that. Either way, it doesn't really matter because there was no way in hell that Meg and Al were going to approve the budget for it when Reflections was still bringing in people to stay until close.

This is the kind of amazingly flawed thinking that has kept WDW so incredibly stale. Of course people stay til close for ROE - it's the only nighttime spectacular in the park, and it is pretty spectacular (except for the huge chunk in the middle of the show where nothing is happening other than indistinguishable images flashing across the woefully outdated screen globe).

A new show, especially a better one, would undoubtedly have the same effect on guests - in fact, it would have a bigger impact for a couple years as people work plans to see it for the first time into their trips. I never watch ROE anymore - I'm over it and out of Epcot by 8:30 to avoid the stampede.

Incompetence knows no bounds.
 

unkadug

Follower of "Saget"The Cult
Eh, Don fleshes out his concepts pretty well right off the bat, so I wouldn't say that. Either way, it doesn't really matter because there was no way in hell that Meg and Al were going to approve the budget for it when Reflections was still bringing in people to stay until close.
Meg and Al have no say-so in what gets develops for the parks. The development of new attractions and shows is not a local decision.
 

Bairstow

Well-Known Member
Agree with you here.

I kept waiting for something to happen in 'Brave'.
I waited and waited..as seemingly endless story setup / future plot points were set up through the course of the film expecting the 'big payoff' at the end, and then...'nothing' as you noted.

This is why the film was a disappointment to me.
You had the story build up slowly...slowly.. seemingly leading you up to something...some important revelation. When it happens, it felt 'empty' and not as impactful. The problem may have been that i had guessed the ending/revelation about 30 minutes before the movie reached it's climax. I had no prior knowledge of the plot, and avoided 'spoilers'.
Despite this, i guessed the end....half way through the film unspooling!
This is usually a bad sign if your audience is already ahead of your plot points, and already knows the ending half way through. Hard to describe..but it was awkward and somewhat mediocre.
That was my impression, anyway.

Similar to a slick marketing campaign...leaves you expecting so much more then what was delivered. We have all experienced movies like that.

In the end it is not at all as strong as you were being led to believe it was going to be.
Loved the look of it, loved the music....enjoy Merida as a character quite a bit....but not the film. As i said earlier, it was a 'one and done'.


You could have a point there regarding the change in direction mid point.

That about sums up my feelings on Brave.
You can really tell the movie was something of a salvage job, much like "Brother Bear," which was markedly similar.

Did anyone ever leak a good synopsis of what "The Bear and the Bow" was supposed to be about?
 

WDW1974

Well-Known Member
Original Poster
Spirited Weekend Musings:

I hope this schtick isn't getting old ...I do know it has apparently kept our intrepid team of MAGICal mods busy this weekend. I think that's probably the true meaning of Veteran's Day, right?

First, it was a great afternoon here in paradise as I lunched (why does auto correct want to make that 'punched'?) with a truly lovely MAGICal member and her crime family. Lots of fun was had by all.

Speaking of food, my fanboi minions report that George and Andy had a lovely dinner date Friday night at the California Grill. They were apparently recognized by quite a few folks who visited their table. I recall days of old when no one had a clue who they were (I know, I dined with them enough). Celebrity ... Are they now the Kardashians of WDW?

WDW is hosting an exec retreat this week with many 'important' folks in town. Why do I not doubt the Lifestylers and bloggingwhores will stay far away from the Grand Flo and YC where most are quartered?

So, the Gay Lost (aka Once Upon a Time) has really hit a rut in Season 3 and watching most of the cast trudge around an island that looks nothing like 'THE island' and more like the one Gilligan and the Skipper inhabited while they snipe at each other is only slightly more interesting than the awful S.H.I.E.L.D.

Look, I am thrilled that The Weatherman gets a bulge when he thinks about Marvel, but many of us are not that interested and won't be. I do love my Marvel characters on my IOA fridge magnet, though.

That brings me to Thor 2. How many Disney fanbois would have been interested in this film pre-2009?

I finally saw Cabin in the Woods. Now, I am even more impressed by the UNI house this year
 
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