Spirited News & Observations II -- NGE/Baxter

unkadug

Follower of "Saget"The Cult
Good point, but not much in the last 15 years or so.
There not been too much added in the past 15 years. Test Track still falls in this category. Mission Space also.Both original attractions.
Toy Story Midway Mania! while they were built at the same time, it actually opened at WDW before DCA...so you could say that DCA got the clone.
Soarin' was a clone, the Little Mermaid's were built at the same time....however DCA's opened first.
The new Mine Train will be an original attraction.
 

lazyboy97o

Well-Known Member
@Tim_4, you're making generalizations an then comparing. Harry Potter was a risk because they took on a challenge that Disney considered too much. They tossed out their ideas and went full steam into Rowling's vision and let Warner Bros. helm the project. That's different than a purely reactionary decision.
 

SirOinksALot

Active Member
Comcast had a strong earnings report in its most recent quarter, with theme park revenue increasing 12.2% to $462 million, and operating cash flow up 10.3% to $173 million.
1) The increase in operating costs outpaced revenue growth. That is never good.

2) Operating cash flow is not the bottom line. Since you have the numbers at your disposal, tell us what net income minus capital expenditures is. Is that number positive or negative? The net income number is in the double digits, yeah?

Selective citations are the best friend of every Universal fanboy/girl.
 

openendedsky

Well-Known Member
I don't think you know what a franchise is. "Disney" isn't a franchise. A franchise would be Disney Princess, Pirates of the Caribbean, Cars, Star Wars, Harry Potter, etc.

Do I really need to point out the contradiction here? You say Disney only builds things for 4-7 year old girls, BUT they also shouldn't spend money on Star Wars or "stupid Avatar." We get it, you don't like Avatar, but the whole point of Star Wars and Avatar is they're NOT for 4-7 year old girls.

I see that you're from "Orlando... baby!" so, with all due respect, you aren't really the opinion that counts about what Universal and Disney offer from a "vacation" perspective.
Her point is that they spend money on the franchises but have done minimal to utilize those franchises, other than updating a ride and having more mickey/star wars crossover merch.

I might be in a minority but it's not the IP that worries me, it's the execution. At some point, WDW got into the nasty habit of spending hundreds of millions for fairly ordinary attractions. I'm hopeful but not optimistic SDMT and Avatarland reverse that trend.
Exactly. They have all of this fantastic IP but are either unable to do anything with it at WDW (Marvel) or just...don't (Star Wars). They're not doing much to improve the parks, and what they have done lately is mostly catered to the under 12 female demographic, like @luv said. I'm hoping this changes, but time will tell.
 

disney fan 13

Well-Known Member
Um, they have also put a whole RIDE system in the interior, a system that Disney, in the dozen or so years since the first version opened (Spiderman), have yet to improve upon.

This, The exterior is very crappy. (VERY, I hate it with a passion.) But the ride system is something that Disney has not shown capable of reproducing stateside. Which is what is very impressive about this attractions construction process.
 

ParentsOf4

Well-Known Member
1) The increase in operating costs outpaced revenue growth. That is never good.

2) Operating cash flow is not the bottom line. Since you have the numbers at your disposal, tell us what net income minus capital expenditures is. Is that number positive or negative? The net income number is in the double digits, yeah?

Selective citations are the best friend of every Universal fanboy/girl.
Comcast does not report FCF or net income by business unit. The following is what was reported publically for theme parks:
For the first quarter of 2013, revenue from the Theme Parks segment increased 12.2% to $462 million compared to $412 million in the first quarter of 2012, driven by higher attendance at the Orlando and Hollywood parks, which benefitted, in part, from the timing of holidays. First quarter operating cash flow increased 10.3% to $173 million compared to $157 million in the same period last year, reflecting higher revenue, partially offset by increased operating costs to support new attractions.
Presumably you are a fan of theme parks. Are you actually worried a parent company would increase its capex investment in its theme parks?
 

GoofGoof

Premium Member
1) The increase in operating costs outpaced revenue growth. That is never good.

2) Operating cash flow is not the bottom line. Since you have the numbers at your disposal, tell us what net income minus capital expenditures is. Is that number positive or negative? The net income number is in the double digits, yeah?

Selective citations are the best friend of every Universal fanboy/girl.

Are you trying to get to free cash flow?

Segment operating income for Q1 was $173M before depreciation and $101M after (couldn't find segment net income) vs capital expenditures of $138M. Not sure what that tells us. Seems like positive free cash flow (cash flow from operations less capital spend) despite a period of heavy construction and growth. I'm not seeing the bad guy in these numbers.
 

twebber55

Well-Known Member
Are you trying to get to free cash flow?

Segment operating income for Q1 was $173M before depreciation and $101M after (couldn't find segment net income) vs capital expenditures of $138M. Not sure what that tells us. Seems like positive free cash flow (cash flow from operations less capital spend) despite a period of heavy construction and growth. I'm not seeing the bad guy in these numbers.
agreed

and uni probably spent more in in 2012 than any other year with all of the construction going on
 

Tim_4

Well-Known Member
@Tim_4, you're making generalizations an then comparing. Harry Potter was a risk because they took on a challenge that Disney considered too much. They tossed out their ideas and went full steam into Rowling's vision and let Warner Bros. helm the project. That's different than a purely reactionary decision.
I'm not trying to make comparisons at all. People think I hate Universal or Harry Potter and that just isn't true. I was the biggest Harry Potter fan you could find growing up (midnight book releases and the whole bit), until Book 7 ruined ten years of buildup and the movies were even worse. I also enjoy Universal, for what it is. What I object to is people arguing that Universal is beating Disney at Disney's game. That just isn't true. It's a different market but people refuse to acknowledge that. WWoHP is a flawlessly executed immersive environment, but it's the first one they've even attempted, let alone executed. The rest of the park is filled with eyesores like this:

49203_6a00d83451b05569e20120a516fee3970b-pi.jpg


The biggest thing I object to is the ridiculous hyperbole that the anti-WDW crowd likes to throw out there. If someone said "I had a bad experience with a cast member" or "FLE isn't really my thing," I'd be much more apt to take them seriously. Unfortunately, the language people choose is more along the lines of "Disney service has COMPLETELY gone to sh*t" or "Disney isn't spending a penny on expansion." That kind of hyperbole makes the argument seem ridiculous and you (general "you," not just @lazyboy97o) lose credibility.

Finally, things that are complaints about Disney are excused when it's Universal. People don't like when Disney makes "screen" attractions, for example, while the most often-praised Universal attractions are all screen-based. MILF doesn't belong in Tomorrowland, but Hogwarts somehow belongs in the vaguely conceived "Islands of Adventure." Disney "only" targets young girls, while Universal gets a pass for squarely targeting teens and twenty-somethings. People complain that Disney uses franchises instead of original content, while that's ALL Universal does. Heck, some people don't even like when Disney uses DISNEY franchises.

To reiterate, these aren't complaints of mine. They're complaints of others that I argue are delegitimized when applied with a double standard.

Off Topic and not my point at all: One (minor) beef I do have about WWoHP is that it focuses on the film version of things. I would have preferred originally conceived character designs rather than Daniel Radcliffe and friends. If Disney were to ever build Marvel attractions, I hope they'd go more Lee/Kirby than Whedon/Downey.
 

SirOinksALot

Active Member
Are you trying to get to free cash flow?

Segment operating income for Q1 was $173M before depreciation and $101M after (couldn't find segment net income) vs capital expenditures of $138M. Not sure what that tells us. Seems like positive free cash flow (cash flow from operations less capital spend) despite a period of heavy construction and growth. I'm not seeing the bad guy in these numbers.
Operating income is before taxes and capital expenditures. 101-138. Lost money. Surely though they can hire the accountants that would get them zero tax liability on that.

But that really underlines my point. The Internet is stuck in 2011 when it comes to the Uni/Disney debate. When they closed Jaws in Jan 2012, they thought they could do no wrong. Then they realized they could and did do wrong. May 2013 is a completely different picture. I'm all for spending money, but as I mentioned there's definitely a growing doubt that throwing wads of cash at the Orlando parks is a good strategy because there's a sense that in 5-7 years they're going to be sitting in meetings debating what the heck they were thinking.
 

SirOinksALot

Active Member
It's a different market but people refuse to acknowledge that.
Amen.

The rest of the park is filled with eyesores like this:
I do have to say I enjoy this though, partially because everytime I ride I think that someone went crazy on Rollercoaster Tycoon :p

Finally, things that are complaints about Disney are excused when it's Universal.
You also forgot how Disney is trying to segment those who pay more from everyone else. Like implementing preferred parking and Express P..... oh.
 

ParentsOf4

Well-Known Member
But that really underlines my point. The Internet is stuck in 2011 when it comes to the Uni/Disney debate. When they closed Jaws in Jan 2012, they thought they could do no wrong. Then they realized they could and did do wrong. May 2013 is a completely different picture. I'm all for spending money, but as I mentioned there's definitely a growing doubt that throwing wads of cash at the Orlando parks is a good strategy because there's a sense that in 5-7 years they're going to be sitting in meetings debating what the heck they were thinking.
Sorry but I honestly don't get your point. What are you suggesting Uni's business strategy should be? Not invest in the parks? Invest in cruise ships? Build NextGen? Create the "Universal Vacation Club"?
 

Tim_4

Well-Known Member
Sorry but I honestly don't get your point. What are you suggesting Uni's business strategy should be? Not invest in the parks? Invest in cruise ships? Build NextGen? Create the "Universal Vacation Club"?
Their strategy is correct for them. They needed a big attendance boost, so they spent big to get it. Disney needs slow and steady growth, so they have a different, more deliberate approach.
 

luv

Well-Known Member
WWoHP is a flawlessly executed immersive environment, but it's the first one they've even attempted, let alone executed. The rest of the park is filled with eyesores like this:

49203_6a00d83451b05569e20120a516fee3970b-pi.jpg
Ah, yes. The old, "Uni has nothing but roller coasters" has now become, "Except for Harry Potter, Uni has nothing but coasters."

Just focus on the magic and traditional sentimentality Disney holds. Too many people have now been to Uni to keep that, "It's all thrill rides for teens!" thing working.

And the pics are available in the Uni section of this board, lol.
 

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