Space Mountain track replacement questions

[jt04]

Exactly.

This is a dollars and NO SENSE decision.

It blows my mind that this most basic of additions isn't going to happen in 2009. Absurd.

As to No. 2 ... do you realize how afraid folks like Phil Holmes and Erin Wallace are of being scapegoated by Jay Rasulo when WDW numbers drop this year? Jay doesn't intend on going anywhere and if he has to cut a loyal minion or two he will ... Phil can't afford to have people not visit 'his' park because Space is closed for a year or two.

but isn't this inevitable now? Magic Kingdom is going to take a HUGE attendance drop this year regardless if all the rides are open or closed. If Rasulo had any sense he would fire Phil Holmes and Erin Wallace for causing long term damage to the disney brand in orlando.

You both are starting to come off as extremely bitter people. Extremely bitter.

It's actually becoming rather humorous.

 

[marni1971]

cool pics, *sorry not to detract from the thread* but Martin, have you found any other pictures of RCA's Nipper in the UFO. The only picture I know of is on walt dated world. When I went through the queue earlier this week I couldn't find anything that looked like a base for the UFO to sit on. :shrug:

Nope - the only piccy I have is that one too. It used to be in the entrance hall - where the ramp and stairs are now with the silver balls on the floor? There just used to be 2 side by side ramps and no stairs, and Nipper was below the ramps. I *think* the stairs were a FedEx addition.

 

[LordHelmut]

Speaking from an audio engineer's point of view, ferrous magnets aren't used that much any more. Neodynium (sp? sorry my brain is not working all that well this morning) magnets are far lighter and can handle more power -- in other words, they are more efficient. Also there are several manufacturers who are making very light (40-50 lbs. versus 100lbs.) amplifiers these days. I do not think (and this is my opinion not knowing how DL's SM sound system is set up) that the weight issue should be a problem. But I have to agree that the original support structure needs some TLC. Perhaps a total rebuild is the only right choice -- everything else is just delaying the inevitable.

As for the trackside sound system, I truly believe that this is not a viable option. As an audiophile I think that that is a horrible idea and as an engineer it makes my brain hurt as to how I would make such a system work (install, time delays, eq settings, yada, yada, yada...). Remember that SM is basically a large steel and concrete cone with tons of reflective surfaces and you would have to get the trackside sound system up above all the noise the train makes as it makes it's way along the tracks. Once you had the sound system loud enough to get over that the reverb in the room would be horrendous. Now I believe that there are ways to quiet the train down (rubber on the train wheels, so and so forth), but that still leaves the logistics of getting the sound to follow a train around a track that's traveling about 30 mph -- just not a good idea.

Still, it's good to have folks look at things from outside the discipline (outside the box, as it were) because that's how I sometimes get my best inspirations!:animwink:

Oh thank god somebody else said this (quite well).

NXT speakers, digital amps, capacitor vs. battery storage, hell I can almost build something in the garage that beats the weight, and that's without the advantage of having 'experts' to design/manufacture parts !

It's also hard to compare old vs. new track. Take a look at an older bridge with riveted box vs. a newer CNC cut/welded I-beam. Of course that said, the existing support system does have some give (as observed on-ride) that 'may' not be desirable.

It's been quite some time since I had *any* contact with folks that knew anything within the company, but is this an external (assumed) engineered activity ? (or in other words, you have X dollars to complete the design, and we're not going over X to complete the project, so if there are changes cut scope)

I've had to work that way in the past. I've also walked into folks offices and said no when the tradeoff between project/scope/cost turned upside down. Or look at it this way..... If it costs so much to do this project now (and the original lasted how long ?) what will it cost tomorrow ?

Of course the balance is 'who's going to notice' if the scope is really cut. Will it make me want to not ride SM ? Probably not. Would it cause me to randomly post opinions in a Disney discussion board lamenting what could have been.... Yup.

Hopefully Imagineers/management will live up to the name/reputation and find the solution rather than acquiesce to the problem.

 

[Enigma]

You both are starting to come off as extremely bitter people. Extremely bitter.

It's actually becoming rather humorous.

You can roll your eyes all you want it is inevitable at this point in time. The economy is not magically going to become better. Calling me bitter isn't going to make the Disney Company magically turn into OLC and start caring for the parks or make the economy better. It's always good to be positive but right now we need to accept the facts and start putting pressure on Disney to change there ways.

I'm sorry that you can't accept it.

 

[jt04]

You can roll your eyes all you want it is inevitable at this point in time. The economy is not magically going to become better. Calling me bitter isn't going to make the Disney Company magically turn into OLC and start caring for the parks or make the economy better. It's always good to be positive but right now we need to accept the facts and start putting pressure on Disney to change there ways.

I'm sorry that you can't accept it.

I didn't call you bitter:shrug:

WDW will never be the OLC and they are caring for the parks through rehabs primarily and doing a very good job at it. The idea that you are putting pressure on them through this forum or any other is laughable...:ROFLOL:

 

[jt04]

Oh thank god somebody else said this (quite well).

NXT speakers, digital amps, capacitor vs. battery storage, hell I can almost build something in the garage that beats the weight, and that's without the advantage of having 'experts' to design/manufacture parts !

It's also hard to compare old vs. new track. Take a look at an older bridge with riveted box vs. a newer CNC cut/welded I-beam. Of course that said, the existing support system does have some give (as observed on-ride) that 'may' not be desirable.

It's been quite some time since I had *any* contact with folks that knew anything within the company, but is this an external (assumed) engineered activity ? (or in other words, you have X dollars to complete the design, and we're not going over X to complete the project, so if there are changes cut scope)

I've had to work that way in the past. I've also walked into folks offices and said no when the tradeoff between project/scope/cost turned upside down. Or look at it this way..... If it costs so much to do this project now (and the original lasted how long ?) what will it cost tomorrow ?

Of course the balance is 'who's going to notice' if the scope is really cut. Will it make me want to not ride SM ? Probably not. Would it cause me to randomly post opinions in a Disney discussion board lamenting what could have been.... Yup.

Hopefully Imagineers/management will live up to the name/reputation and find the solution rather than acquiesce to the problem.

It seems like if there is one ride they shouldn't underfund it's this one. If they can't do all the bells and whistles, I just hope they do this in a way where those can be added in later. Perhaps that is why so much emphasis on track design/rehab. It will need to last a long time.

 

[dandaman]

I didn't call you bitter:shrug:

Sorry, but...

You both are starting to come off as extremely bitter people. Extremely bitter.

It's actually becoming rather humorous.

Not that I disagree, though...

 

[jt04]

Sorry, but...



Not that I disagree, though...

Ummm, I did not call them bitter, I said they are coming off that way. A very important distinction, thank you very much.

*end of drift*

 

[marni1971]

WDW will never be the OLC and they are caring for the parks through rehabs primarily and doing a very good job at it

Not as good as they could be. Every single rehab over the past 2 years (more at Epcot) has been a watered down version by TDO. They should be ashamed at the plans for PotC they passed on. Don`t ask.

Like it or not, WDW is primarly run to be the shareholders cash cow for Burbank, and secondly for the guest in Orlando. It is great, but could be even better.

 

[WDW1974]

You both are starting to come off as extremely bitter people. Extremely bitter.

It's actually becoming rather humorous.

What's humorous is the fact you don't seem to bring much to discussions on your own.

I don't think people come to these forums to read your opinions on other posters.

This thread, in case your comprehension skills are lacking, is about Space Mountain. Some of us who do know what could have been done and what was talked about, not to mention what Disney would have done in the past and still does around the world, might make some fans 'bitter' ... because what we're getting passed off as something more than a cleaning and track work really appears to be not all that much more.

 

[jt04]

Not as good as they could be. Every single rehab over the past 2 years (more at Epcot) has been a watered down version by TDO. They should be ashamed at the plans for PotC they passed on. Don`t ask.

Like it or not, WDW is primarly run to be the shareholders cash cow for Burbank, and secondly for the guest in Orlando. It is great, but could be even better.

I am convinced that the guilty party or parties have drawn the eye of those charged with doing something about it. And I have confidence something will be done to remedy the situation.

I agree with you and the way you approach the problem and express your concern.

You make this forum great!

 

[WDW1974]

Not as good as they could be. Every single rehab over the past 2 years (more at Epcot) has been a watered down version by TDO. They should be ashamed at the plans for PotC they passed on. Don`t ask.

You can go back years ... from things like Tiki Room Under Tom Fitzgerald's Management to the past two versions of Journey Into WDI's Lack of Imagination ... to things like Pirates of the Caribbean (with time travel sound so you're never quite sure whether you're in 1973 or 2006!) to SSE (now featuring black curtains and blank triangles in the sky for the final third of the ride) to O I Can't Believe How Badly We Screwed Up Canada (also known as an homage to American pop culture celebs who are secretly Canadian) ... it's amazing how bad most of these redos have been and how many millions of dollars were spent on them.

The absolutely only quality redo/plussing I can think of is Mansion.

Like it or not, WDW is primarly run to be the shareholders cash cow for Burbank, and secondly for the guest in Orlando. It is great, but could be even better.

Orlando exists as Burbank's ATM ... and the cash cow is (or was) DVC.
WDW exists now almost solely to hawk timeshares because we all know that when Walt said 'We have enough land here for all the dreams we can possibly imagine' what he really meant is 'I am going to be the King of the Timeshare Realm! Bow before me!'

 

[EPCOT Explorer]

You can go back years ... from things like Tiki Room Under Tom Fitzgerald's Management to the past two versions of Journey Into WDI's Lack of Imagination ... to things like Pirates of the Caribbean (with time travel sound so you're never quite sure whether you're in 1973 or 2006!) to SSE (now featuring black curtains and blank triangles in the sky for the final third of the ride) to O I Can't Believe How Badly We Screwed Up Canada (also known as an homage to American pop culture celebs who are secretly Canadian) ... it's amazing how bad most of these redos have been and how many millions of dollars were spent on them.

The absolutely only quality redo/plussing I can think of is Mansion.



Orlando exists as Burbank's ATM ... and the cash cow is (or was) DVC.
WDW exists now almost solely to hawk timeshares because we all know that when Walt said 'We have enough land here for all the dreams we can possibly imagine' what he really meant is 'I am going to be the King of the Timeshare Realm! Bow before me!'

See, now here I agree.


And that was hysterical.:ROFLOL:

 

[jt04]

What's humorous is the fact you don't seem to bring much to discussions on your own.

I don't think people come to these forums to read your opinions on other posters.

They certainly don't come here to witness you hijack every thread and turn into another borish rant against management as if we are so stupid we don't already get your point. We get it and have for almost two months. It's old, tired and self indulgent. Get over yourself already.

And I was not the one who skewed this thread away from the SM rehab, your minion did.

 

[WDW1974]

They certainly don't come here to witness you hijack every thread and turn into another borish rant against management as if we are so stupid we don't already get your point. We get it and have for almost two months. It's old, tired and self indulgent. Get over yourself already.

Please, get over yourself.

I come here to share my knowledge and discuss/debate Disney. I am sorry you can't comprehend that most basic facet ... purpose of a discussion board.

I don't like WDW management (for the most part, I do still have some friends in TDO) and I am going to state my opinions whenever I damn well see fit.

If you don't like it, my advice would be to either ignore my posts or leave the site.

In other words, grow up.

And I was not the one who skewed this thread away from the SM rehab, your minion did.

Minion?

Seriously, you need to grow up if you want to sit at the adult table.

 

[jt04]

Please, get over yourself.

I come here to share my knowledge and discuss/debate Disney. I am sorry you can't comprehend that most basic facet ... purpose of a discussion board.

I don't like WDW management (for the most part, I do still have some friends in TDO) and I am going to state my opinions whenever I damn well see fit.

If you don't like it, my advice would be to either ignore my posts or leave the site.

In other words, grow up.

It's this attitude that has gotten you kicked off other forums. Thread hijacking is not an accepted practice here. So you can't say whatever you see fit. You have no 1st amendment rights as this is a privately owned forum. Keep hijacking threads and I think you will find this to be the case. I don't speak for Steve or his moderators but I have seen it happen to others.



Minion?

Seriously, you need to grow up if you want to sit at the adult table.

That is a very weak denial.

You feed off each others posts to hijack threads, like this one, for your own selfish purposes.

 

[unkadug]

Please, get over yourself.

I come here to share my knowledge and discuss/debate Disney. I am sorry you can't comprehend that most basic facet ... purpose of a discussion board.

I don't like WDW management (for the most part, I do still have some friends in TDO) and I am going to state my opinions whenever I damn well see fit.

If you don't like it, my advice would be to either ignore my posts or leave the site.

In other words, grow up.



Minion?

Seriously, you need to grow up if you want to sit at the adult table.

So you're a moderator now?

 

[marni1971]

C'mon, guys :wave:

 

[Erika]

Please stay on track and lay off the personal attacks. Thanks.

 

[djkidkaz]

Just for anyone who doesn't know, there is an IGNORE feature you can activate for a poster. So if you don't want to read posts by someone, just block them. You may still have to read them if someone responds, but you can also just scroll past those posts as well.

In regards to all the things that Disney passes on, why not look at the things they don't pass on? For awhile there was talk that due to the economy, the SM rehab wasn't happening at all! Disney decides to go ahead with it and we get many posters still complaining! Why not be thankful that we are atleast getting something, rather than complaining about what they are giving us?

What do you guys want? A full 100% redo except for the star tunnel music? In that case, Disney mine as well just destroy the complete bulding and create a whole new Space Mountain. Neither Lee or Marni have said that ride audio is 100% off the table. Actually they've both said they have no clue at this point.