So ... news and rumors?

WDWGoof07

Well-Known Member
Thank you Lee, Marni, '74. Sounds like all is not lost:).

About finishing SSE, I was referring more to cosmetic-type changes after "Your Future" ends. Maybe some fiber optics and other sparkly things to lighten up that last section of the ride. I loved SSE 4.0 up until the video ended...it's just too empty right now. It should have had some flashy lights (and the SSE model:() to make you pumped about the future instead of just dropping you off in the dark.
 

WDW1974

Well-Known Member
Original Poster
Irons was weak?!?:eek:



Do tell...:fork:

Quite frankly, I'm surprised at you, sir.:rolleyes::lol:

Well, I would hate to be thought of as predictable.

And, no, I didn't say Irons was weak as I don't feel that way.

My point was/is that the ending third of SSE ('the descent' as I like to call it) has always been the weakest part of the attraction.

The build up is always to get to the dome and then ... they've always struggled.

Although I do think the blue lights are way kewl if you've had a few spirited beverages before riding.
 

CBOMB

Active Member
Now, now, calm down dear minion ... I wasn't being serious.

I just started the thread to stir the pot, which of course you knew, because things are awfully quiet and because WDW projects are all on creep mode.

And things are being cut left and right behind the scenes, even if I/we don't know it, because there isn't anyone at WDW with the balls to fight for what's needed.

But you can take it to the bank that Disney's Grand Floridian Beach Resort and Villas will be coming just as soon as they can slap that BLT on the plate!
I can hardly wait. DVC, WDW's answer to the 21st century E-ticket ride.
 

WDW1974

Well-Known Member
Original Poster
Announcement? No idea. Others say soon.

The timeframes on a lot of these projects have been thrown into chaos due to the credit crunch - even more so than normal, and more than any time in the past. It really is a mess. It dosn`t take a room full of TDO accountants to see that the storm will pass, with people expecting to see new things when they can afford revisit - and that now is the time to build with cheap(er) labour and materials. I could reel off a whole list of D and E Ticket projects that were planned - even greenlit - from as recent as July. They really inspired hope in me - and you know how cynical of the company I`ve become. That was in the summer. Things have changed now, worldwide. Some are still a go purely because they need to happen for various reasons or because they are too far gone to simply stop. Some are a go due to the 40th. Some have funding from outside the company. Some have to be done since other things depend on them. There is a line however where a few projects sit that could tip either way depending on the recession. Not to a red light, but more green to amber.

I`m being more cautious what I say due to the current climate and knowing how TDO may deal with it. I trust what I`m told - but I won`t go out on a limb simply because this information may change at any time, sometimes even more than once a day for one project. Things really are that messy.

I can't disagree with anything you wrote.

I just always err on the side of caution, disappointment and outright disgust when dealing with WDW's 'leadership' team.

They are a spineless group motivated almost entirely by self-interest and not what is in the best interests of their guests and cast.

They are not creative, they are not visionary. They can't see beyond the next fiscal quarter (if that far).

And, worse, Jay Rasulo loves 'em.

And, much worse, Bob Iger still employs Jay!
 

EPCOT Explorer

New Member
Well, I would hate to be thought of as predictable.

And, no, I didn't say Irons was weak as I don't feel that way.

My point was/is that the ending third of SSE ('the descent' as I like to call it) has always been the weakest part of the attraction.

The build up is always to get to the dome and then ... they've always struggled.

Although I do think the blue lights are way kewl if you've had a few spirited beverages before riding.
:rolleyes::lol:


I disagree. But that's the beauty of an opinion. But the new SSE DOES need something. Hopefully it gets it soon.
 

Enigma

Account Suspended
Irons was weak?!?:eek:



Do tell...:fork:

Quite frankly, I'm surprised at you, sir.:rolleyes::lol:

The Irons ending sucked all you did was stare at mall maniquins and look at cheap glitter effects. Of course compared to what we have now with those moronic touch screens the Irons version looks like a masterpiece.
 

WDW1974

Well-Known Member
Original Poster
I think right now NOTHING is set in stone. There is a heck of a lot of uncertainty everywhere, anything and everything is liekly to change. Just like back in 2001 through to 2003, we might have to sit things out. If things are as bad as some predict, we should just hope hours remain good and the cast keep their jobs. Huge investment in the parks might very well be secondary for a while.

The problem with sitting things out is that WDW is largely stale now and has major problems in its three oldest parks. Things that should have been updated, upgraded or replaced a decade ago are still there. During the 2001-03 period (and I'd push it back and say from 1998 -- after DAK opened -- until 2003 or 04) things were almost stagnant. And what did open wasn't very good at all.

When you pile up year upon year of letting things sit, at some point you simply can't do so anymore.

As a regular at other Disney resorts, as well as someone for whom WDW is my 'home' resort, I won't sit back and just wait and hope that maybe in 3-4 years Disney will bless me with some small attraction or something fresh when the resort needs a massive infusion of freshness (again, it doesn't all come down to new attractions if you read any of my neverending Four Parks: One Stale World thread).

If Disney had five-year plans (much like DL/DCA does) for WDW, things never would have gotten this bad.

The only long term plan for WDW is for build-out .... that means chopping down all those trees and putting up as many timeshare units as Walt could have possibly dreamed of (in his nightmares likely) ... there aren't five-year plans for any of the parks ... just some projects that are in various stages of either happening or, mostly, not. The only park that isn't a total mess is DAK because Joe has so much power within WDI.

It's very disheartening for those of us who remember how great WDW was in the 70s, 80s and into the 90s to see the place being stale and WalMarted.

It's just not magical!

And I don't want to hear excuses, I want to see real investment in the Florida parks. And, no, I don't want to wait until 2011 or 2014 or 2017 or whenever ...now would be too late!
 

EPCOT Explorer

New Member
The Irons ending sucked all you did was stare at mall maniquins and look at cheap glitter effects. Of course compared to what we have now with those moronic touch screens the Irons version looks like a masterpiece.

WOW...And you are a fan for theme parks for what reason?:rolleyes::lol:
 

Enigma

Account Suspended
I think right now NOTHING is set in stone. There is a heck of a lot of uncertainty everywhere, anything and everything is liekly to change. Just like back in 2001 through to 2003, we might have to sit things out. If things are as bad as some predict, we should just hope hours remain good and the cast keep their jobs. Huge investment in the parks might very well be secondary for a while.

Well the thing is after 2003 we never really got anything major (other than soarin and a barebones Expedition Everet). It just seemed that Disney's attitude was that Walt Disney World was complete and people would keep coming in droves no matter what so instead of building new rides and lands they were building more hotel rooms and trying to sell timeshare units.

This is a mistake that is coming back to bite them in the rear big time and I hope this recession (which is on a much grander scale than the brief volatility of 2001/3) + increasing competition (Universal is building away) will force them to stop being complacent. Either that or Disney will further fall behind until they wind up like the other big american companies like GM that aren't even going to make it till christmas.
 

EPCOT Explorer

New Member
Well the thing is after 2003 we never really got anything major (other than:eek::confused::ROFLOL:. It just seemed that Disney's attitude was that Walt Disney World was complete and people would keep coming in droves no matter what so instead of building new rides and lands they were building more hotel rooms and trying to sell timeshare units.

This is a mistake that is coming back to bite them in the rear big time and I hope this recession (which is on a much grander scale than the brief volatility of 2001/3) + increasing competition (Universal is building away) will force them to stop being complacent. Either that or Disney will further fall behind until they wind up like the other big american companies like GM that aren't even going to make it till christmas.

M:S too...:shrug:
 

Enigma

Account Suspended
M:S too...:shrug:

Can you explain to me what makes M:S so good? You geniuenly belivee it belongs in the same league as Big Thunder, Star Tours, Spaceship Earth, Space Mountain, HORIZONS, Journey to the center of the earth, 20k under the sea, Twilight zone tower of terror, indiana jones, etc. ?

Even some B and C tickets like Maelstorm and even Mission to Mars were more enjoyable than M:S is.
 

wdwmagic

Administrator
Moderator
Premium Member
The problem with sitting things out is that WDW is largely stale now and has major problems in its three oldest parks. Things that should have been updated, upgraded or replaced a decade ago are still there. During the 2001-03 period (and I'd push it back and say from 1998 -- after DAK opened -- until 2003 or 04) things were almost stagnant. And what did open wasn't very good at all.

I think it depends on what you call major problems. In the last couple of years MK has been getting to the point where attendance is so high that you can barely get through Main Street after dark due to the crowds. Space Mountain very rarely has a line less than 30 minutes. For a 30 year old coaster, it's doing pretty well popularity wise.
As it currenlty stands, I dont think MK could support another land without some significant changes to how guests get in and out of the park. That second Main Street might need to be looked at again.

Epcot is having some of it's best performance since 2000.

The Studios, well I dont quite get what is going on there. The change of name and TSM was an ideal opportunity for a big push, but somehow it got left behind. Accounting wise, for it's size, I understand its doing well financially.

Don't get me wrong, I want new attractions just like everyone else. I just think you have to be careful in saying that there are major problems with the current resort.
 

wdwmagic

Administrator
Moderator
Premium Member
Can you explain to me what makes M:S so good? You geniuenly belivee it belongs in the same league as Big Thunder, Star Tours, Spaceship Earth, Space Mountain, HORIZONS, Journey to the center of the earth, 20k under the sea, Twilight zone tower of terror, indiana jones, etc. ?

Even some B and C tickets like Maelstorm and even Mission to Mars were more enjoyable than M:S is.

Regardless of how much you enjoy it or not, MS pushed the boundary of a unique modern day thrill ride. It didnt involve height, loops, or speed. Nowhere else can you experience a flight simulator of that calibre. It was a brave move in Disney going ahead with it, and maybe it didnt pay of as big as they hoped, but it was certainly well worth trying, and a lot of people really enjoy it.
 

EPCOT Explorer

New Member
Not sure where your from but here in AMERICA we call it as we see it. If I feel the ending of an attraction is weak sauce im not going to go in some wierd fanboy denial mode and accept it.
Wha...?:veryconfu


Fanboys are un-American?:rolleyes::lol:

Wow. OK , then.

I really don't know how to respond to that.:lol:
Can you explain to me what makes M:S so good? You geniuenly belivee it belongs in the same league as Big Thunder, Star Tours, Spaceship Earth, Space Mountain, HORIZONS, Journey to the center of the earth, 20k under the sea, Twilight zone tower of terror, indiana jones, etc. ?

Even some B and C tickets like Maelstorm and even Mission to Mars were more enjoyable than M:S is.

While is pales in comparison to a traditional Disney E-Tic like the ones you have mentioned, M:S is a very immersive and thrilling experience.It really is a "New EPCOT" style of attraction...It Informs , Entertains in the greates sence and factor and tries to inspire. Although it might not be as grand and miraculous as the previous incarnations that were planed for it,it is a technical marvel and really showcases the "New EPCOT" spirit.


Oh, wait, it killed Horizons.

Being a Fanboy, I have to hate it right?:rolleyes::rolleyes::lol:
 

EPCOT Explorer

New Member
Regardless of how much you enjoy it or not, MS pushed the boundary of a unique modern day thrill ride. It didnt involve height, loops, or speed. Nowhere else can you experience a flight simulator of that calibre. It was a brave move in Disney going ahead with it, and maybe it didnt pay of as big as they hoped, but it was certainly well worth trying, and a lot of people really enjoy it.

Wha...?:veryconfu


Fanboys are un-American?:rolleyes::lol:

Wow. OK , then.

I really don't know how to respond to that.:lol:


While is pales in comparison to a traditional Disney E-Tic like the ones you have mentioned, M:S is a very immersive and thrilling experience.It really is a "New EPCOT" style of attraction...It Informs , Entertains in the greates sence and factor and tries to inspire. Although it might not be as grand and miraculous as previous incarnations were planed for it it is a technical marvel and really showcases the EPCOT spirit.


Oh, wait, it killed Horizons.

Being a Fanboy, I have to hate it right?:rolleyes::rolleyes::lol:
Great minds think alike?:lol:

*high five*:D:eek:
 

Enigma

Account Suspended
Wha...?:veryconfu


Fanboys are un-American?:rolleyes::lol:

Wow. OK , then.

I really don't know how to respond to that.:lol:


While is pales in comparison to a traditional Disney E-Tic like the ones you have mentioned, M:S is a very immersive and thrilling experience.It really is a "New EPCOT" style of attraction...It Informs , Entertains in the greates sence and factor and tries to inspire. Although it might not be as grand and miraculous as the previous incarnations that were planed for it,it is a technical marvel and really showcases the "New EPCOT" spirit.


Oh, wait, it killed Horizons.

Being a Fanboy, I have to hate it right?:rolleyes::rolleyes::lol:

You obviously didn't read whta I said. You ask me if I hate theme parks so I responded that where I come from we are allowed to have our opinions. The reason I belive M:S is a poor attraction is not because it "killed horizons" the reason is because the attraction sucks rotten eggs. The storyline they forced into it makes no sense (so its a simulation of a simulation? Why even bother making a backstory that your in the year 2077 in ISTC then?), the ending is poor and unfulfilling, the "interactive feature" is insulting to guetss intelligence, the claims that you experince weightlessness was total hype I went on the ride several times and never once felt weightless, the themeing is bare bones, the video is the poorest CGI I have ever seen, etc. etc.

I genuinely believe Star Tours gives a better fealing of traveling through space than Mission:Space does. Mission Space is just a glorified Gravitron carnivale ride and wound up making people sick and in some cases led to death. If by entertains you mean it makes people sick than yea its entertaining all right.

So getting back to what I said since 2001-2003 "slow down" all we got after that was a clone of DCA's Soarin' and Expedition Everest which is a barebones version of the Forbidden Mountain that Joe Rhodes had proposed for DAK. For the record, I enjoyed both attractions though.
 

bosoxrock3410

New Member
epcot explorer


The only thing I can really see happening is two EPCOT projects...:)lookaroun;)) I believe their budgets were already allocated. One in MK too...HoP I believe.

what two projects do you think will happen at epcot?


Journey Into Imagination With Figment and SSE?
 

WDW1974

Well-Known Member
Original Poster
I think it depends on what you call major problems. In the last couple of years MK has been getting to the point where attendance is so high that you can barely get through Main Street after dark due to the crowds.

I think I have been very thorough in describing the problems the MK has. We can briefly go over them again ... old stale attractions that aren't being kept up, major infrastructure problems due to neglect and poor upkeep, cleanliness not nearly what it once was, almost no live entertainment that isn't foamhead (i.e. 18-year-olds getting paid $7.50 an hour) vs. real shows with entertainers like the Diamond Horseshoe, a total dumbing down/WalMarting of retail, shops closed and retail moved into carts and areas that once were peaceful (see Pirates Plaza), huge empty dead zones where attractions, shops or dining locales closed and were replaced by ... nothing, 1991 and 2001 parades still running, cartoon based attractions placed in every land completely muddling the whole story behind each land (again a WalMarting), a dumbing down of costuming with many managers/leads wearing street clothes onstage, mature trees being chopped down and replaced by seedlings etc ... I wish we could just pop this graph out whenever someone questions where I am coming from with my 'MK bashing'

I don't know when you first visited, but I've been a WDW regular since (well, you guess the year) and to see how far standards have fallen is very, very sad. So aren't the Defenders of Mediocrity who either don't know that things were better or don't care.

As to the point you bring out above, I'd only say that Main Street has always been crowded at busy periods. It isn't any worse now ... well, actually it is ... for one very LARGE reason: the proliferation of huge monster double-wide strollers and folks using ECVs because they're too lazy to walk (I am speaking of the vast majority here, not the few folks who truly need them for medical reasons).

Go take a look at old pictures of the MK in the 1970s or 80s or 90s and compare them with today and you'll see so many more strollers and ECVs and wheelchairs too (people rent them thinking they're an automatic front of the line pass).

That's why the MK feels busier even on days where it isn't moderately crowded.

Space Mountain very rarely has a line less than 30 minutes. For a 30 year old coaster, it's doing pretty well popularity wise.
As it currenlty stands, I dont think MK could support another land without some significant changes to how guests get in and out of the park. That second Main Street might need to be looked at again.

I never equate the popularity of something with its inate quality, whether it's WalMart, McDonald's, SUVs, American Idol, or politicians.

I will agree that Space Mountain remains popular, though. But it's largely because of nostalgia mixed with it being the MK's only real 'thrill' ride, and the fact it is in that huge white kewl looking building.

Wait times, though, mean little in the era of Fastpasses and capacity/labor cuts. A 30-minute wait today is very likely a 10-minute wait a decade ago.

And again as far as entrance/egress issues, I know just from talking to Ops folks that except on the busiest of times the problems are caused by way too many lazy people pushing their kids around instead of making them walk ... as an aside you see far fewer strollers (and hardly any double wides, although WDW rents them causing the problem and profiting from it) and ECVs at DL, at DLP you see very, very few ... on my visit to HKDL this summer I counted 12 strollers on one day. That's it. Because the Chinese make their children walk (the healthy, appropriate way to raise kids) as soon as they can. No pushing obese 10-year-olds thru a park as they devour a turkey leg.


Epcot is having some of it's best performance since 2000.

I don't have the numbers to agree or disagree at this moment. I do know that anecdotally I have seen smaller crowds at traditionally busy periods (like Food and Wine Fest last month) than in the past. I do know all WDW parks had very healthy attendence the first six months of 2008. I think we can surmise the past four months haven't been that good.

The Studios, well I dont quite get what is going on there. The change of name and TSM was an ideal opportunity for a big push, but somehow it got left behind. Accounting wise, for it's size, I understand its doing well financially.

Well, I think they missed the boat by delaying Star Tours 2.0. And I can tell you if Disney hadn't of killed Rivers of Light that DAK would have easily surpassed The Park Formerly Known as The Disney-MGM Studios in annual visits. But hey, we can all get excited by AI coming soon ... WOO HOO!


Don't get me wrong, I want new attractions just like everyone else. I just think you have to be careful in saying that there are major problems with the current resort.

I disagree. I think I can make a very compelling argument for why I say what I do and back it up with evidence and examples and reasoned opinion.

Again, while new attractions are part of the issue with WDW today they certainly aren't the only one. It's way too simplistic to say just build more attractions. Disney has added quite a few new or replacement attractions in the past five years, but the quality is debatable on many and having Everest doesn't justify dirty bathrooms or filthy walkways, adding MILF (a disaster on its own merits) does nothing to help the merchandise situation, swapping out one version of O Canada for a very, smarmy cheap replacement does nothing to negate the fact Wonders of Life sits and rots (except when special events takes it over), adding TSMM doesn't change the fact a giant tacky cartoon hat is sitting in the middle of Hollywood Blvd. blocking the beautiful Chinese Theater (and there is no legal or 'rights' issues with the building before that untrue Internet myth/urban/CM rumor gets spouted by someone), the fact PhilharMagic is a nice 3D show that was poached from HKDL doesn't change the fact the theater is always dirty or that half the effects on Splash Mountain don't work on any given day.

I hope I've cleared up my position with this post ... new attractions will help, but they aren't the issue ... WalMarting WDW is!
 

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