Slash and Burn ...

[WDW1974]

THAT'S what I have a problem with. It's that kind of thinking, that MK is mostly for kids, that is ruining that park. It's turning into a character-laden, kid-centric bore. It get's us terrible attractions like Stitch.
Space Mountain has terrified many kids, and adults, to the point where they have left the park for the day. Doesn't mean the ride shouldn't be there. That is what warning signs and height requirements are for.
The goal is, and should be, something for everyone...not everything for everyone.
Take your kid on AE and he get's freaked out? Tough. Too bad. I really don't care. I am simply unwilling to sacrifice entertainment that I enjoy and find to be unique, original, and lots of fun just because it makes some little kid cry.

How come when you make intelligent, articulate, rational posts like the one above people don't hate you?

What's scary is when people begin believing, and they already do, that the MK is a park for children. Walt Disney's cryogenically fozen melon would be 'sploding at such talk.

This is the company that made a name by traumatizing children and adults with films like Dumbo, Bambi and Old Yeller.

Now, everything has to be made so as to be acceptable to a five-year-old ... and not a particularly mature one either!

It absolutely isn't what the MK is about.

But for today's audience, it has to make little Brittany or Brandon smile ... no matter what. So why have live entertainment with real quality UNION entertainers like at Diamond Horseshoe or the old Kids of the Kingdom even? Why have steel drum bands in Adventureland, blue grass trios in Frontierland or Fife and Drum corps in Liberty Square? Place a 17-year-old in a foamhead suit with two handlers and a line for autographs. Why have shops that antiques, themed merchandise, exotic wares when you can just have Grumpy tees, Tink sweatshirts, Mouse ears, pins and HSM soundtracks at EVERY store?

It's all about dumbing the product down and conditioning the guests to expect less all the time while paying more.

The MK is absolutely the worst when it comes to it because it used to be so wonderful and has lost so much. ... It now really is Phil Holmes' Magical Disney-Pixar Character Park. The sad thing is when people try and convince themselves or others that the place was always like this or that this is the right way to run the place.

 

[EpcotServo]

It now really is Phil Holmes' Magical Disney-Pixar Character Park.

But there are only two Pixar rides, and one has been there for years.
:lookaroun

I love Magic Kingdom...


Guess that's why it hurts so much.
:lol:

 

[agent86]

I could've mentioned that you didn't say a thing when you called the people of this site's opinions on the ride "smart" yet the reviews average 9.4.

You posted that survey in a vain effort to prove me wrong about a statement I never made in the first place. Find where I made the statement you're attributing to me (highlighted in red) and we'll talk.

What you're likely referring to (and clearly misunderstood my point on) is where I said that people had expressed all out disappointment in EE. Another member disagreed with me and said he didn't "buy it" that people had expressed disappointment in the ride. He challenged me to produce hard data proving my point. I countered by asking if he didn't put any stock in what people write on a Disney fan site. My purpose was to point out that if loyal, hardcore Disney fans have expressed disappointment in the ride (which many people on these boards do), then that must say a lot about how truly disappointing the ride is. Somehow you twisted the meaning of my posts to think that I was saying "everyone here is smart and they all are disappointed with EE". Then you apparently thought you had caught me in a mistake and had "proven" me wrong.

You should read posts more clearly before going to all that trouble to discredit what someone wasn't even saying in the first place. I'm starting to thing that every time you posted "takes another drink" you really were. Maybe you should put the bottle down, buddy.

 

[marni1971]

How come when you make intelligent, articulate, rational posts like the one above people don't hate you?

What's scary is when people begin believing, and they already do, that the MK is a park for children. Walt Disney's cryogenically fozen melon would be....

. ... It now really is Phil Holmes' Magical Disney-Pixar Character Park. The sad thing is when people try and convince themselves or others that the place was always like this or that this is the right way to run the place.

Quote of the day. I raise my glass. Of diet Coke.

 

[WDW1974]

Best post of the year :sohappy:

Not fair. I demand a recount. Lee has minions here ... :ROFLOL: But that post was uber kewl and accurate.

Back in the mid to late 90's the Magic Kingdom was actually my favorite park (Yes the New Tomorrowland and the Future World changes did play a huge role) and now it is my least favorite. Adults without small children do actually go to the park and that audience does not need to be forgotten. The upgrades to Pirates and Mansion were very welcome, but this park hasn't received an E-ticket since Splash Mountain in 92 and all of what made the New Tomorrowland so special is now gone.

And right now is scheduled to get absolutely NOTHING right on into its 40th. Redos of existing attractions no matter how well done (Mansion) or not (PoC) don't count as anything but what they are ... simple plussing ... what USED to be done regularly.

Attendance numbers don't back it up (yet), but the park has grown stale. Just look at the way Disney turned Disneyland around a few years ago. That park feels much more alive and fresh than the MK. Hopefully the crown jewel of the WDW resort will be able to shine brightly again. A little originality wouldn't hurt the place either :animwink:

DL, though, was never stale. It was just neglected from a maintainance standpoint. ... And DL would never get like MK because it has a large vocal fanbase who have held an 'ownership' like interest in the place for generations and live in the media capital of the world, so they're savvy.

Compare that to MK ... and Orlando. How many people are MK 'lifers'? How many people even go back to being regulars when Disney only had two gates in Orlando? How many people have that same feeling of the MK being 'their' park that people all over SoCal have for DL?

Two totally different markets and two totally different products. AE, for example, would have likely been huge had it gone in the park it was originally intended (DL).

 

[Pumbas Nakasak]

IMHO, you take yourself and the value of your opinion wayyyyyy to seriously.

No offence.

 

[WDW1974]

Quote:
Originally Posted by Wilt Dasney
AE was in a class of its own. It was designed to scare the crap out of not just kids, but people of any age with active imaginations and a fear of the dark. I know plenty of people will disagree, but I don't think it even existed to tell a story...the entire narrative was window dressing for an experience intended to scare the $hit out of as many people as possible.

I couldn't disagree more. The story is what AE such a fantastic experience. The corporate satire played perfectly in a place like Disney World and the humor was just as relevant as the scare tactics. Even as an 11 year old seeing the show for the first time, I caught the humor even more so than the points designed to scare.

Yes. Exactly. There actually was a story at AE ... one that was carried through from the queue to the preshow to the theaters.

Now? There's no real story ... hell, there's no real ending even after they went back and tinkered with it.

And humor was huge. It was that aspect that was there to Disney-fy the experience ... to show that the big bad alien wasn't really gonna eat anyone (no matter how much some of us wanted him to!)

 

[Lee]

I raise my glass. Of diet Coke.

Ahhhh....great minds think alike.
Diet Coke is like.....oxygen. I can't live without constant infusions of it.:lol:

So yeah....MK....sad....think I wanna go to Disneyland and cleanse myself.

 

[WDW1974]

No, I was there before the 50th, and it was better back then too.
:lol:

Yeah. Me too.

I've been a regular at MK since (well, guess!)

First visit to DL was in 1990 for its 35th anniversary and became a regular and an APer a few years later.

Even back in 1990 when the MK still rocked, DL was a superior park ... the gap was certainly not as wide as it is today ... but DL still had more attractions, more unique shops, more CMs who cared, more and better entertainment.

But back then ... MK was just as clean (both parks were kept near pristine) ... it had more unique shopping and dining ... didn't have any real dead zones (only Swan Boats had disappeared without a replacement).

 

[RSoxNo1]

I see what you're trying to say, but my point is that where HM conveys that story very well, EE really misses the mark. The cool thing about a Disney attraction is that it's supposed to let you experience things that are mysterious and fantastic. They're not supposed to leave you feeling like, "What was that? Did I see what I thought I might have seen?". That's not what happens in the HM, at least not by the time you've completed the ride. And again, I don't think your average guest really "gets" that storyline. When you have to be a hardcore Disney fan in order to understand what they were trying to convey, I think the Imagineers have failed.

I agree that Haunted Mansion conveys this story better than Everest, but both stories aren't apparent like say Splash Mountain. I just got back from a trip with first timers, and I had to explain both story lines for Haunted Mansion and Expedition Everest to the first timers. Neither was understood the first time through the ride.

 

[WDW1974]

That might have been the key, to let people know it wasn't "Disney" scary (e.g., Bambi's mom dying), but the real deal.

Those Disney films were VERY scary in parts to kids. I saw Bambi in a theater as a five-year-old and it upset me so that to this day I haven't seen the entire film again. Snow White was very scary ... the woodsman was going TO CUT HER HEART OUT AND PLACE IT IN A BOX ... felt that needed to be yelled because some folks don't get that Walt and his animators didn't talk down to kids or protect them from the scary stuff in the world. That's why those amazing works of art have held up. The only modern Disney film that comes close to dealing with death issues really is The Lion King and that wasn't as powerful to me as the earlier films.

A PG-13 attraction in the middle of what's marketed as a G-rated resort needed more than a few warning signs, IMO.

There is no way that attraction was PG-13. None. Nada. Zero. Zilch.

You could argue PG and I'd agree ... But I'd say the same for attractions like Space Mountain (yeah, it really was a thrill ride at one time ... ancient history, I know).

Everything isn't meant for every member of the family. That's fine so long as most everything is appropriate for most members of most families.

Disney succeeds on that count in the theme park business and has for 53 years now.

 

[WDW1974]

It's unfortunate that the Yeti has been inoperable for so long now, but truthfully, even when it was working I felt it was a tad overrated. I don't think we're really missing all that much by having the Yeti not working.

I'm sure Joe Rohde and Imagineering will be thrilled to hear that considering how many millions were spent developing, building and installing the yeti (there were supposed to be two 'encounters' but one figure got the budget ax) ... he is the climax of the attraction, really.

So, while you can feel any way you please, we are missing out on plenty when the freaking figure is 101.

 

[agent86]

I agree that Haunted Mansion conveys this story better than Everest, but both stories aren't apparent like say Splash Mountain. I just got back from a trip with first timers, and I had to explain both story lines for Haunted Mansion and Expedition Everest to the first timers. Neither was understood the first time through the ride.

Which story about HM did you have to explain to them? The reason I ask is there's basically two things I think we might be talking about here. There's the obvious (or at least I think it's obvious) storyline that you're going into a haunted house and you're seeing ghosts. Then there's the back story that involves Master Gracey and the whole sea captain and unrequited love thing. Most people don't know about the backstory, but I don't think that affects their enjoyment of the attraction (aside from maybe enhancing it even further if you know about it). I can't think of a situation where I've ridden HM with someone, had them get off the ride saying they were disappointed, and me having to explain the storyline so that they were no longer disappointed.

With EE, on the other hand, I think people go into it with expectations that they're going to see more of the yeti. Add to this the fact that most of them probably aren't aware of this whole storyline that they're trying to convey throughout the queue, etc. It almost seems like in order to really enjoy EE and not feel cheated, one has to be aware of the storyline ahead of time. I think most people would consider this too much work while they're on vacation.

I agree about Splash. They did a superb job with that one. I think ToT is probably the pinnacle in terms of conveying the storyline very well.

 

[EpcotServo]

You posted that survey in a vain effort to prove me wrong about a statement I never made in the first place. Find where I made the statement you're attributing to me (highlighted in red) and we'll talk.

And wasn't a survey, Don't you read anything?
:lol:

You don't put any stock in the opinions of posters to a Disney fan site?? I think if devoted Disney fans are expressing disappointment, that says quite a lot. Especially since so many are so often accused (some justifiably so) as looking at Disney through rose colored glasses and believing Disney can do no wrong.

Why I posted that link...

With EE, on the other hand, I think people go into it with expectations that they're going to see more of the yeti. Add to this the fact that most of them probably aren't aware of this whole storyline that they're trying to convey throughout the queue, etc. It almost seems like in order to really enjoy EE and not feel cheated, one has to be aware of the storyline ahead of time. I think most people would consider this too much work while they're on vacation.

More Conjuncture and hearsay!
:sohappy:

I have to say, I thought management was out of touch with what the average guests are thinking.
:lol:

 

[agent86]

I'm sure Joe Rohde and Imagineering will be thrilled to hear that considering how many millions were spent developing, building and installing the yeti

Well perhaps you place more importance on sparing Joe Rhodes' feelings than giving an honest opinion about the ride. I've often suspected that many of the posters here who defend EE so vehemently probably know deep down that it's really a sad ride. I have no doubt that the fact it was expensive and a major "event" attraction is the driving factor behind why so many people here love to say how "amazing" it is. :hammer:

So, while you can feel any way you please, we are missing out on plenty when the freaking figure is 101.

Don't think so. I've said this before...If the yeti AA truly is as sophisticated and impressive as they claim it is, then why didn't they place it in a spot that would better show it off? It just doesn't add up.

 

[EpcotServo]

Well perhaps you place more importance on sparing Joe Rhodes' feelings than giving an honest opinion about the ride. I've often suspected that many of the posters here who defend EE so vehemently probably know deep down that it's really a sad ride. I have no doubt that the fact it was expensive and a major "event" attraction is the driving factor behind why so many people here love to say how "amazing" it is. :hammer:



Don't think so. I've said this before...If the yeti AA truly is as sophisticated and impressive as they claim it is, then why didn't they place it in a spot that would better show it off? It just doesn't add up.

Oh my.


wdw1974?


THE wdw1974?


:lol:

"SON. You're on your own."
-Preacher, Blazing Saddles

 

[agent86]

Why I posted that link...

I know that's why you posted that link. I already acknowledged that. Even after I spelled it out for you, you still misunderstood my post (unless you're doing it on purpose in order to be intentionally argumentative...which is what I'm starting to suspect).

In any event, let me repeat my admonition to you...put the bottle down. :hammer:

 

[agent86]

Oh my.


wdw1974?


THE wdw1974?


:lol:

"SON. You're on your own."
-Preacher, Blazing Saddles

Ummmm...do you realize you quoted one of MY posts and wrote a message that was clearly directed at someone else?? :hammer:

Put :hammer:the :hammer:bottle :hammer:down. :hammer:

 

[dxwwf3]

And right now is scheduled to get absolutely NOTHING right on into its 40th. Redos of existing attractions no matter how well done (Mansion) or not (PoC) don't count as anything but what they are ... simple plussing ... what USED to be done regularly.

That's the sad news indeed. I don't know what it's going to take to turn the MK around, but I don't have much hope to be honest. I still enjoy my time there and it IS a great park, but it just isn't what it used to be. And that's even if I take away feelings of past attractions. There just isn't as much for me to enjoy there anymore. I'm 24 and I feel like I'll never be the target of anything at the MK again for the rest of my life.

AE, for example, would have likely been huge had it gone in the park it was originally intended (DL).

I sure am glad that we got it for those 8 fantastic years, but there is no doubt that it would still be around at DL right now if it were placed there as well. Apparently they can read warnings in California because there's no way Indiana Jones Adventure would fly in the Magic Kingdom of today.

 

[EpcotServo]

I know that's why you posted that link. I already acknowledged that. Even after I spelled it out for you, you still misunderstood my post (unless you're doing it on purpose in order to be intentionally argumentative...which is what I'm starting to suspect).

In any event, let me repeat my admonition to you...put the bottle down. :hammer:

What arguement? At this point it's You Vs. The World, anyone who's opinions are different has to be a lie to cover up the "truth" of your opinion. Either a card-carrying Everest Liar or a fellow traveler.












































Ever hear the story of Senator Joe McCarthy?

:lookaroun