For all you Disney CMs out there....i have a friend who is a CM at AK, according to her there was a recent employee newsletter that indicated big changes were on the way for Epcot. Is there any truth to this? My friend tends to be a bit of a ..um...bs'er. She actually told me a few weeks ago that accd. to an imagineer she dated, FM was to be part of Beastly Kingdom and that that project was back on track and to be announced in june...obviously as we've learned in the past few weeks re: Everest that's a lie. So i'm curious whether anyone has heard about PG.
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Project Gemini Revealed
- Thread starter Lee
- Start date
ToTBellHop
Well-Known Member
Re: Wow...
Are you suggesting that nature won't be part of the future? That's just...depressing...
Are you suggesting that nature won't be part of the future? That's just...depressing...
Dizknee_Phreek
Well-Known Member
Originally posted by DogsRule!
History of the world w/ special effects to make the time travel seem more realistic--all in Rocket Rods type cars. It'll probably have a more in depth story to make it feel more like a race, where, like all disney thrill rides, something will go wrong
so in other words, Dinosaur without the jerky car? :animwink: well, and of course, without the dinosaurs (most of them anyway)
Dizknee_Phreek
Well-Known Member
Re: Re: Wow...
i believe SG just meant the typical, fanciful view of the future...not nessasarily what WILL be the future.
forgive me, SG if that's not what you meant.
i believe SG just meant the typical, fanciful view of the future...not nessasarily what WILL be the future.
forgive me, SG if that's not what you meant.
AndyMagic
Well-Known Member
That's what I was thinking. DINOSAUR combined with Test Track which is right next door!! I really hope that isn't the real story. Also, why would they use one of the worst Disney ride systems ever created? Test Track and the former Rocket Rods break down far too much to justify the somewhat "ok" ride experience. Disney's EMV ride system is far more enjoyable and much more reliable!
Well the rocket rods technonlogy may have failed at DL, but it has suceeded at Tokyo DisneySea. My understanding is that the Journey to Center of Earth ride uses the rocket rod technology and it works incredibly well over there. Based on what i read recently, i forget where, I think it was jimhillmedia.com, the reason rocket rods failed at dl so miserably was that they installed this ride on an existing track that couldn't support the stress and weight and the turns. Hopefully if they redo this ride they will still have AA figures mixed in with it or maybe film elements a la spider man (cough- most overrated attraction ever - cough). I seriously doubt disney would just do another Space mountain type ride.
WDWFREAK53
Well-Known Member
Can you get the same speed output from an EMV ride?
ToTBellHop
Well-Known Member
No. Rocket Rods didn't work due to budget cuts. Luckily, Disney isn't paying for Time Racer, and it is indoors at least 95% of the ride (if not the whole ride), so it should be more reliable. And it will be better than Spidey, actually, as it will have both video screens in the background and Animatronics. And, AndyMagic, for an "okay" ride experience, Test Track seems to be doing rather well as the most popular attraction at Epcot.
miamimickey72
New Member
Well Im no expert but will say that the layout looks great. But I agreee with Kenan, the trees might make it look to much like Animal Kigndom. I think that Disney might add a rollercoaster because the public is asking for more thrill rides. I for one like thrill rides but do not go to Epcot for that. I go for theScience and the fact that its what Walt wanted. Times change and Disney just wants to try to make everyone happy.
Its all about $$$$. If adding a few thrill rides will help bring in that $$$ which will help keep up Epcot, then im all for it. But making such a major change by adding so many trees is a bit to much.
Well just have to wait and see if this even happens.
Its all about $$$$. If adding a few thrill rides will help bring in that $$$ which will help keep up Epcot, then im all for it. But making such a major change by adding so many trees is a bit to much.
Well just have to wait and see if this even happens.
Epcot
Everyone keeps saying Walt's Original Concept which to me is crazy. Walt's original concept for Epcot was a city of the future. It had nothing to do with what is in the park now. The idea of a park that is changed and updated was an original idea of his but what Epcot became has absolutley nothing to do with what he wanted in it. So to me, Epcot is not his idea at all. It is the disney imagineers dream, not Walts.
Everyone keeps saying Walt's Original Concept which to me is crazy. Walt's original concept for Epcot was a city of the future. It had nothing to do with what is in the park now. The idea of a park that is changed and updated was an original idea of his but what Epcot became has absolutley nothing to do with what he wanted in it. So to me, Epcot is not his idea at all. It is the disney imagineers dream, not Walts.
General Grizz
New Member
Re: Epcot
It's true that EPCOT is not the city that Walt Disney designed. However, it is still a showcase of technology, education, and inspiration. The quality of most of the attractions (i.e. Spaceship Earth and the American Adventure) can be traced back to the styles and meanings of the 1964 New Yorks Worlds Fair attractions. And the message of progress created in most of the late attractions of EPCOT was the exact motivating force behind the concept of Walt's dream.
If we can dream it, we can do it!
It's true that EPCOT is not the city that Walt Disney designed. However, it is still a showcase of technology, education, and inspiration. The quality of most of the attractions (i.e. Spaceship Earth and the American Adventure) can be traced back to the styles and meanings of the 1964 New Yorks Worlds Fair attractions. And the message of progress created in most of the late attractions of EPCOT was the exact motivating force behind the concept of Walt's dream.
If we can dream it, we can do it!
Buzzy989
New Member
Project Gemini: Disturbing EPCOT's Delicate Balance
After making a rather recent visit to EPCOT myself, I have been envisioning the changes in layout which Project Gemini will potentially bring. One treasured aspect which EPCOT possesses more than any park is its structural symmetry. Consider Future World West (JII, The Land, Seas). . .it has a well-balanced layout, produced by the ponds near the Breezeway and the sweeping gardens cradling The Land, and this is all enhanced by the ample green space. Even when the park is most crowded, Future World West offers an open atmosphere of tranquility, a concept which is futuristic in its own right and counters the thrill-ride ambience of Future World's other half. By adding a roller coaster to The Land, the delicate visual balance of Future World West is disrupted, and its serenity is definitely threatened.
Undeniably, the addition of two new attractions to Future World West could possibly change the clean-cut notion of a World's Fair-style "pavilion" as the structural basis of EPCOT, as well as make the park a little more suffocating. By breaking up the two halves of Innoventions, the structural symmetry and order of the park would be further disrupted. . .and this change would make EPCOT a little harder to navigate (recall the complaints about Animal Kingdom's structure. . .it lacks the logical order which is one of the hallmarks of EPCOT). By adding trees, the Imagineers intend to relieve the sense of crowdedness and the loss of green space induced by the new attractions; yet this would only whittle away at the openness of Future World.
And finally, I'd like to comment on the "money" aspect of Project Gemini, brought up by miamimickey. Any change which is made to Future World is going to have to increase park revenues; otherwise, there is no logical reason for the company, this day in age, to add entirely new attractions. BUT this does not have to be accomplished by adding the "easy" solution of a roller coaster -- whatever happened to the attraction which combines creative new characters with memorable new songs and an inventive, fun way to explore one of the many new avenues of the future? This type of attraction, which EPCOT has traditionally produced and has been long embraced by family audiences, would be no more costly than a thrilling roller-coaster. . .yet it is MUCH MORE CHALLENGING to imagine and create. Such an attraction would more effectively inspire the creativity of guests, yet the Disney company does not seem to be willing to face such a challenge.
For those of you who have seen Cranium Command, for instance. . .could you name a more creative show which inspires and educates an audience of all ages such as this one? It is full of sheer genius in the way it deals with difficult situations and academic concepts -- yet the inspiration inherent in this attraction does not seem to be able to translate its way into the barren thrills of an EPCOT roller coaster. Time Racers, also, could never reach the sheer artistic majesty and profoundly inspiring nature of the Spaceship Earth attraction.
Thrill rides would be a boon to the park, don't get me wrong. Mission:SPACE is truly a renaissance attraction in EPCOT's history. Yet both this attraction and Test Track are highly sophisticated thrill rides, and Mission:SPACE is mainly consistent with EPCOT's aesthetic traditions and otherwise. Sophisticated thrills consistent with EPCOT's traditions need to be the focus of Project Gemini. . .if thrills are the primary option; yet, as I have outlined above, this does not seem to be the case. We can only hope the the Imagineers truly try to challenge themselves with creating creative and genuinely memorable attractions. . .and let EPCOT's true colors continue to shine through.
Originally posted by miamimickey72
Well Im no expert but will say that the layout looks great. But I agreee with Kenan, the trees might make it look to much like Animal Kigndom. I think that Disney might add a rollercoaster because the public is asking for more thrill rides. I for one like thrill rides but do not go to Epcot for that. I go for theScience and the fact that its what Walt wanted. Times change and Disney just wants to try to make everyone happy.
Its all about $$$$. If adding a few thrill rides will help bring in that $$$ which will help keep up Epcot, then im all for it. But making such a major change by adding so many trees is a bit to much.
After making a rather recent visit to EPCOT myself, I have been envisioning the changes in layout which Project Gemini will potentially bring. One treasured aspect which EPCOT possesses more than any park is its structural symmetry. Consider Future World West (JII, The Land, Seas). . .it has a well-balanced layout, produced by the ponds near the Breezeway and the sweeping gardens cradling The Land, and this is all enhanced by the ample green space. Even when the park is most crowded, Future World West offers an open atmosphere of tranquility, a concept which is futuristic in its own right and counters the thrill-ride ambience of Future World's other half. By adding a roller coaster to The Land, the delicate visual balance of Future World West is disrupted, and its serenity is definitely threatened.
Undeniably, the addition of two new attractions to Future World West could possibly change the clean-cut notion of a World's Fair-style "pavilion" as the structural basis of EPCOT, as well as make the park a little more suffocating. By breaking up the two halves of Innoventions, the structural symmetry and order of the park would be further disrupted. . .and this change would make EPCOT a little harder to navigate (recall the complaints about Animal Kingdom's structure. . .it lacks the logical order which is one of the hallmarks of EPCOT). By adding trees, the Imagineers intend to relieve the sense of crowdedness and the loss of green space induced by the new attractions; yet this would only whittle away at the openness of Future World.
And finally, I'd like to comment on the "money" aspect of Project Gemini, brought up by miamimickey. Any change which is made to Future World is going to have to increase park revenues; otherwise, there is no logical reason for the company, this day in age, to add entirely new attractions. BUT this does not have to be accomplished by adding the "easy" solution of a roller coaster -- whatever happened to the attraction which combines creative new characters with memorable new songs and an inventive, fun way to explore one of the many new avenues of the future? This type of attraction, which EPCOT has traditionally produced and has been long embraced by family audiences, would be no more costly than a thrilling roller-coaster. . .yet it is MUCH MORE CHALLENGING to imagine and create. Such an attraction would more effectively inspire the creativity of guests, yet the Disney company does not seem to be willing to face such a challenge.
For those of you who have seen Cranium Command, for instance. . .could you name a more creative show which inspires and educates an audience of all ages such as this one? It is full of sheer genius in the way it deals with difficult situations and academic concepts -- yet the inspiration inherent in this attraction does not seem to be able to translate its way into the barren thrills of an EPCOT roller coaster. Time Racers, also, could never reach the sheer artistic majesty and profoundly inspiring nature of the Spaceship Earth attraction.
Thrill rides would be a boon to the park, don't get me wrong. Mission:SPACE is truly a renaissance attraction in EPCOT's history. Yet both this attraction and Test Track are highly sophisticated thrill rides, and Mission:SPACE is mainly consistent with EPCOT's aesthetic traditions and otherwise. Sophisticated thrills consistent with EPCOT's traditions need to be the focus of Project Gemini. . .if thrills are the primary option; yet, as I have outlined above, this does not seem to be the case. We can only hope the the Imagineers truly try to challenge themselves with creating creative and genuinely memorable attractions. . .and let EPCOT's true colors continue to shine through.
General Grizz
New Member
Welcome to the forums!
I agree; Disney should really start to reevaluate refurbishments and create the 'true' thill ride: a well-rounded, truly Disney attraction full of quality, meaning, heart, and family options! The lack of many of this can still unfortunately be seen in some of the current changes at EPCOT, and it would truly dishearten me to see this increase in Future World's 'new image.'
If you recall Journey into Your Imagination, the Imagineers went up to bat with an attraction to create something 'totally different.' Unfortunately, I sense a similar overwhelming flaw in the entire essence of Gemini.
Again, good post! :sohappy:
I agree; Disney should really start to reevaluate refurbishments and create the 'true' thill ride: a well-rounded, truly Disney attraction full of quality, meaning, heart, and family options! The lack of many of this can still unfortunately be seen in some of the current changes at EPCOT, and it would truly dishearten me to see this increase in Future World's 'new image.'
If you recall Journey into Your Imagination, the Imagineers went up to bat with an attraction to create something 'totally different.' Unfortunately, I sense a similar overwhelming flaw in the entire essence of Gemini.
Again, good post! :sohappy:
General Grizz
New Member
Re: Project Gemini: Disturbing EPCOT's Delicate Balance
I love the way you put this into words. Sometimes things just shouldn't change when it comes to the basic roots.
Very true, however, Disney has the potential to transgress many of the limitations created by such rides as 'Test Track' - - there is room, there is potential, but there is no determination. To create the fully well-rounded Future World attraction, there must be a clearly defined essence as applying to man, and it must go forward in a way never-before seen or experienced. If the next 'World of Motion' were created, and placed in the Test Track pavilion, a combination of Disney quality, tradition, family, and thrills could make just this one area of EPCOT a truly classic and admirable place for everyone.
I love the way you put this into words. Sometimes things just shouldn't change when it comes to the basic roots.
Very true, however, Disney has the potential to transgress many of the limitations created by such rides as 'Test Track' - - there is room, there is potential, but there is no determination. To create the fully well-rounded Future World attraction, there must be a clearly defined essence as applying to man, and it must go forward in a way never-before seen or experienced. If the next 'World of Motion' were created, and placed in the Test Track pavilion, a combination of Disney quality, tradition, family, and thrills could make just this one area of EPCOT a truly classic and admirable place for everyone.
Dizknee_Phreek
Well-Known Member
buzzy, i must agree with SirNimajneb's and grizzlyhall's posts and say that your post was very well thought out and written! VERY nice! :sohappy: and i agree with what you said on many of the points you brought up! especially where you said that Disney doesn't seem to want to face up to the challenge of creating an inspiring attraction. i've been noticing this since the millenium celebration, and unfortunately, it seems to be continuing. i know times are tough, but to me it seems as though Disney is taking the easy way out of their troubles...whether it be the fault of the imagineers or the 'big-wigs' in charge of the budget. i pray that it's just a phase that Disney will eventually work their way out of.
General Grizz
New Member
I believe New Tomorrowland was one of the latest greatest 'hits' by Disney in this type of quality, insightful, and inspiring attractions. They even created original characters (a losing trend) and even brand new, state-of-the-art Audio-Animatronics figures. Timekeeper, 9-Eye, XS Tech Crew, and even Sonny Eclipse (with dozens of new songs!) should be a general mold for a new type of attraction. Even Timekeeper goes into the past, present, and future in an entertaining and comedic fashion! Even in this transition of the Circle-Vision Theatre, quality was upped when two highly advanced Audio-Animatronics Figures were ADDED - can I believe what I am hearing?! And, throughout this transition, the classic Carousel of Progress not only remained, but was updated to its best version yet.
Splash Mountain, Disney's best thrill ride, in my opinion, is loved by many not because of the giant drop, but because of the use of story-telling and quality throughout the attraction in combination with the 'thrill factor.' Complete with tasteful music loops, a cast of dozens of Animatronics, and even a few hidden lessons along the way, Splash Mountain serves also as an example of a thrill attraction that combines the tastes of hundreds to fit into one single experience. Both Splash and New Tomorrowland are the kinds of transitions EPCOT can use to create a well-rounded experience and to truly bring folks in...and not just the target 18 age.
As for EPCOT, it's saddening we are not getting any new "omnimover" or "story/Animatronic" attractions. But, this becomes much worse when our remaining classic is endangered. Especially when there is much more room around Future World. Can anyone say "Mission Space," "Rainforest Roller Coaster space," or "The Odyssey?"
Dr Albert Falls
New Member
Buzzy989 writes: "For those of you who have seen Cranium Command, for instance. . .could you name a more creative show which inspires and educates an audience of all ages such as this one?"
Also---for those of you who have seen Cranium Command--- could you name a more bypassed, desolate, unattended, and dated attraction at WDW?
Except for the attraction's most die-hard fans, NOBODY pays attention to it (and don't say its because Disney doesn't promote it enough. I've never seen one advertisement for Cinderella's Breakfast, and reservations fill up in 2 minutes. Popular experiences sell themselves.)
Yes, it's sad to see quality attractions go. But Disney is a business, and it makes no sense to build attractions that will be ignored by a majority of parkgoers.
Buzzy also writes: "Time Racers, also, could never reach the sheer artistic majesty and profoundly inspiring nature of the Spaceship Earth attraction."
If you've got detailed ride descriptions and conceptual drawings of Time Racers, PLEASE SHARE! Otherwise, it's impossible to pre-judge the attraction. As for Spaceship Earth, other than the long lines generated early in the morning by people hitting the first attraction they see--- attendance is pretty sparce. For being the most dominant structure on the Epcot skyline, I don't see people beelining from World Showcase mid-afternoon to ride it.
I sure miss Horizons, but wouldn't trade Mission:Space for anything. Horizons and World of Motion may have been impressive during the early 80's--- but I doubt most families are going to pack up the car and drive hundreds of miles and spend thousands of dollars to re-visit those same "been-there-done-that" attractions.
There are those who will argue "keep the old, but also build the new". Unfortunately, all those buildings would "make the park a little more suffocating" (as Buzzy described).
Yes, Disney screwed up JII, and you either love or hate TT and Innoventions. But Mission:Space is proof the company still has that knack.
Epcot can be a museum to the 1980's--- or it can be a cutting-edge glimpse into the future.
Also---for those of you who have seen Cranium Command--- could you name a more bypassed, desolate, unattended, and dated attraction at WDW?
Except for the attraction's most die-hard fans, NOBODY pays attention to it (and don't say its because Disney doesn't promote it enough. I've never seen one advertisement for Cinderella's Breakfast, and reservations fill up in 2 minutes. Popular experiences sell themselves.)
Yes, it's sad to see quality attractions go. But Disney is a business, and it makes no sense to build attractions that will be ignored by a majority of parkgoers.
Buzzy also writes: "Time Racers, also, could never reach the sheer artistic majesty and profoundly inspiring nature of the Spaceship Earth attraction."
If you've got detailed ride descriptions and conceptual drawings of Time Racers, PLEASE SHARE! Otherwise, it's impossible to pre-judge the attraction. As for Spaceship Earth, other than the long lines generated early in the morning by people hitting the first attraction they see--- attendance is pretty sparce. For being the most dominant structure on the Epcot skyline, I don't see people beelining from World Showcase mid-afternoon to ride it.
I sure miss Horizons, but wouldn't trade Mission:Space for anything. Horizons and World of Motion may have been impressive during the early 80's--- but I doubt most families are going to pack up the car and drive hundreds of miles and spend thousands of dollars to re-visit those same "been-there-done-that" attractions.
There are those who will argue "keep the old, but also build the new". Unfortunately, all those buildings would "make the park a little more suffocating" (as Buzzy described).
Yes, Disney screwed up JII, and you either love or hate TT and Innoventions. But Mission:Space is proof the company still has that knack.
Epcot can be a museum to the 1980's--- or it can be a cutting-edge glimpse into the future.
Dizknee_Phreek
Well-Known Member
wonderfully put! and i agree!! we haven't seen an area update with the quality of New Tomorrowland in a LONG time! though, Mickey's Toontown Fair has a fairly good standing in its own right, considering how it was before its most recent update.
but i consider Illuminations 2000 and ToN to be of extremely high quality and i can tell that there was much time and thought put into both displays. both are (or at least was in the case of ToN) very creative with original scores that are both memorable and inspiring. now, if Disney could just put that kind of thought and energy into their attractions, they may have another classic on their hands! but until they realize where they're going wrong, the attractions and other various updates (shows, areas, etc) won't rise above being merely adaquate.