Project Gemini Revealed

kennyj29

Member
Progress - Change?

Come on, no matter what people say you are either for change or for the same old attractions. No matter what I say to promote change or what you say to stay not to change, there will always be two sets of opinions. To me "Magic Kingdom" should stay the same. You will always have kids who will love the disney characters. They will always love the "magic" of the Kingdom. For some reason, it never gets old. You have to keep it for the kids because that's what "Magic Kingdom" is. MGM, Animal Kingdom, and especially Epcot should have changes. People on this board are saying "The Rainforest Rollercoaster will have no meaning. How do you know? Did you see the plans for the ride? How can you judge something that hasn't even opened yet. You are ASSUMING which is not a good thing, that shows me your closed mind and you will hate it without even giving it a chance. We all loved the old pavillions but they are just that "old" and we should really stop arguing and let Disney do their thing. I've trusted Disney for all these years. They have done wonderful things at Disney and will continue to do so. Of course, they have had some clunkers, everyone knows that but think of all the Great things they have done. Give it a chance without condemning it first.
 

TrevEG

Member
Well... From what Ive heard, this thing is supposed to be an inverted rollercoaster that travels through a dense forest-like terrain. I just dont really see the possibility of story-telling or break-through ride technology there. Sure, roller coasters are great. But they have their own place in Amusement Parks. Disney has always been sooo much more than just another Six Flags but I fear that with the go-ahead of ideas like time racers and project gemini the line between cheep thrills and true magic will begin to blur. Just my 0.02.
 

General Grizz

New Member
Change v. Progress isn't "something on the side." It is PURELY vital. Progress means increasing standards of the levels of quality and expectations of the guests of EPCOT Center. It does not mean closing pavilions with pure genius and information in order to make quick inverted roller coasters, with hour waits, with little to now educational or inspirational value - and QUALITY, to add that in, that simply disrupts a peaceful atmosphere.

Progress is adding more quality. Using enhanced forms of story telling - adding on to the original essence and not taking away the ENTIRE basis that a certain world was founded in. This only creates disorder and "entropy."

Originally posted by TrevEG
Sure, roller coasters are great. But they have their own place in Amusement Parks.
Exactly. "Dino-Rama" was NEVER essential to ANY Walt Disney World theme park. Pitchwheels, etc. were abhorred by Walt Disney himself. Along with many of the ideas (i.e. Junior Autopia) which are being considered for Gemini. Create the family experience of quality in NEW attractions, but don't create a ride on can see "anywhere else."

The Wonders of Life - an absolutely GLORIOUS topic - is left ABANDONED. The Carousel of Progress, the only attraction Walt Disney asked his Imagineers to keep, is sitting closed for 3/4 to 4/5 of the year, dust - even on his birthday. There is no care for the original basis Disney was founded on - including the entire theories of Future World and the message Walt Disney himself presented through films, TV shows, and theme park attractions. It shows, to me, a complete lack of creativity and caring for a park dedicated to pure showmanship in the hopes of creating a brighter tomorrow - and a slap in the face to those who truly care.
 

kennyj29

Member
Just because you don't think that it will be good doesn't mean that your right. Listen to yourselves. Keep the OLD pavillions old is the operative word. Modernize yourselves a little bit and stop complaining all the time. There will be plenty of the "old" type rides. Disney isn't that stupid to think they can make Six Flags. Give them a break people. Stop looking through closed minds and start thinking, gee, maybe times have changed a little so they want to keep up with them. I'm not saying purely roller coasters, i'm saying eveything they open up. Time racers, do yo know for a fact that's a thrill ride? No, your going strictly by rumors. Stop complaining before you know for sure what they are doing!
 

General Grizz

New Member
Originally posted by kennyj29
Just because you don't think that it will be good doesn't mean that your right.

Nor thinking that it will be good would make me right, now would it? :lol:"

Originally posted by kennyj29
Listen to yourselves. Keep the OLD pavillions old is the operative word.

Never once did I ever say anything about keeping the old as is. If you noticed, I've been supporting progress, a type of change.

Originally posted by kennyj29
Modernize yourselves a little bit and stop complaining all the time.

What does this have to do with modernization?
 

EpcoTim

Well-Known Member
Well, its apparent that they are losing site of whats really important.....and thats keeping epcot original.


My thoughts, and dream on it, would be this: Keep epcot the educational park. It needs to be that way. But make a majority of the rides huge learning centers. Like the MetLife pavillion, and have lots of hands on resources and games, activities, etc.... And also have a couple rides, or a ride and a show. Something I like to think of as the 30/70 and 70/30 rule. Have one ride that is 70% thrill and 30% education, and another, in the same pavillion, that is 30% thrill, 70% education. Or something along those lines. Put some serious imagination and theming into these rides.

Contrary to popular beleif, people can still (some of them anyway) carry a thought for at least a few minutes. Epcot needs to cater to those, and entice the rest with the thrills. For some, it will be, come for the speed, stay for the knowledge, and for others, vice versa.

This isnt my best explanation on the subject, but for now it will do.

Discoveryland is a great idea....it just has to be done right. The land, M:S, Test Track....all fit into it. He**, they cold even bring back a variation of World of Motion as the secondary ride to Test Track. Take us through the history of driving, maybe a quick little stint through racings past, a little section where your pod blasts down the Mille Miglia like so many greats have.

Add the mysterious Sky pavilion between the land and the sea, take us through the history of flight (ala a modern Dreamflight), show us the wonders of the great blue yonder, and how we need to protect it, etc.....


How about a paviliion dedicated to the arts, from Bach and Johann Strauss to the great Roman actors to todays Broadway and opera houses?

All this can be done, with thrills tossed in, and all without losing the face value that Epcot has always presented us. I cried at the demise ot World of Motion and Horizons, but they have the perfect opportunity to bring those days back...a slow ride can have sections of speed bursts, and dips while it tells it story, it can be done....


sorry for the long winded post.
 

General Grizz

New Member
Originally posted by EpcoTim
Like the MetLife pavillion, and have lots of hands on resources and games, activities, etc.... And also have a couple rides, or a ride and a show. Something I like to think of as the 30/70 and 70/30 rule. Have one ride that is 70% thrill and 30% education, and another, in the same pavillion, that is 30% thrill, 70% education. Or something along those lines. Put some serious imagination and theming into these rides.

Wonders of Life is an excellent example! The pavilion was brand new in 1989, fresh with family activities, and even an Animatronics show. Plus, there was a, for that time "thrill ride" that used, at the time, state-of-the-art technology and storyline. In the topic of motion, keeping a motion omnimover or walk-through family experience, and adding a thrill ride (Test Track) would make the motion pavilion a complete and still entertaining work of wonder for all guests.

Your idea here is excellent, and is one Disney SHOULD be considering, but unfortunately, seems to have no care for. :(

For that matter...let's take a look at the amount of Animatronics added to the parks, one of the signs of "lack of trust" quality-wise:

In the 1980s, Future World had over 436 animatronics ALONE!

If Gemini comes through, as currently revealed, we will have less than 45.

I just cannot develop a trust. And one day I have to go through how much space was taken away from attractions...*that will be startling*

Originally posted by EpcoTim
Contrary to popular beleif, people can still (some of them anyway) carry a thought for at least a few minutes.
This is very true. The audience was extremely receptive in Cranium Command - which relied on some knowledge of the human body.

Originally posted by EpcoTim
Add the mysterious Sky pavilion between the land and the sea, take us through the history of flight (ala a modern Dreamflight), show us the wonders of the great blue yonder, and how we need to protect it, etc.....

I wouldn't expect the sky pavilion based on the two major additions to the Land. However, there is still area to incorporate "flight" into motion, to make the Motion pavilion more like Wonders of Life, the original Imagination, or the Land in that aspect. :wave:
 

Buzzy989

New Member
Originally posted by kennyj29
Just because you don't think that it will be good doesn't mean that your right. Listen to yourselves. Keep the OLD pavillions old is the operative word. Modernize yourselves a little bit and stop complaining all the time. There will be plenty of the "old" type rides. Disney isn't that stupid to think they can make Six Flags. Give them a break people. Stop looking through closed minds and start thinking, gee, maybe times have changed a little so they want to keep up with them. I'm not saying purely roller coasters, i'm saying eveything they open up. Time racers, do yo know for a fact that's a thrill ride? No, your going strictly by rumors. Stop complaining before you know for sure what they are doing!

Well, kenny, you do make some interesting assertions. EPCOT was truly founded to take park guests to the latest edge of technologies and creative possibilities -- thus, "modernization" is a necessary, continuous evolutionary process for the park. As you say, we are not in any position to completely debunk Time Racers. However, both I and some other forum members are just highlighting the need to view these possible changes with utmost caution. The experiences in each pavilion should be distinct and like no other in the entire universe. . .and the information that we have gathered on Time Racers does not yet indicate that the new attraction will feature superior, absolutely unique forms of both technology and storytelling to make a good replacement for the signature attraction of Spaceship Earth. We can only hope that the Imagineers have something wonderful and awe-inspiring up their sleeves . . . if they do, then who's complaining?

Rainforest Rollercoaster, however, seems to be much more well known to the members of this forum. . .especially since it appears that it is far further in production than other Project Gemini rides. As I have asserted before, this attraction is mainly designed to be an "ATTRACTion," luring teenage resort guests to the highly sophisticated EPCOT. But such an addition, however, would mar severely the sophisticated image of EPCOT. . .inspiration, cutting-edge technological advancement, and a respect for the aesthetic quality of the park (especially Future World West) would have no place in such a ride. The information we have gathered on this attraction surely paints a negative picture. . .although we cannot know assuredly that this coaster will be completely detrimental to EPCOT's traditional values, all current signs point to this unfortunate reality, and therefore many of us are raising the red flag for substantial concern.

I respect your point of view, kenny, but I think that many of the concepts of Gemini disrupt the very foundations of EPCOT. . .and would create an ENTIRELY new atmosphere and slate of values for Future World. What we have now is so generally embraced, and the right changes and additions, if executed tastefully with regard to guest friendliness and inspiration, distinct technological achievement, and respect for EPCOT's aesthetic standards, would constitute something far greater than change or modernization -- true progress.
 

General Grizz

New Member
One more idea: on the topic of Spaceship Earth - it is our LAST "omnimover" trip through time/future based on loops, animatronics, etc. This truly effective form of storytelling is down to one...it would hurt me to see yet ANOTHER reliance on screen technology instead of a "right there," detailed ride, still popular and full of essence.

...and destroying this version would be like ridding the world of dark rides, flume rides, and inverted coasters, respectfully. :brick:
 

Buzzy989

New Member
Originally posted by EpcoTim
Well, its apparent that they are losing site of whats really important.....and thats keeping epcot original.

Contrary to popular beleif, people can still (some of them anyway) carry a thought for at least a few minutes. Epcot needs to cater to those, and entice the rest with the thrills. For some, it will be, come for the speed, stay for the knowledge, and for others, vice versa.

Based on an early 80's profile of EPCOT Center, one of the four major philosophical components of the park was, believe it or not, HUMOR! Humor is the best means to educate without the material becoming burdensome, as well as one of the best means to entertain. Wonders of Life continued in the same humorous tradition (precedents including World of Motion, JII, Kitchen Kabaret, and even Horizons), featuring lighthearted exhibits and attractions which possessed BOTH extreme educational and throughly enjoyable appeal. Now this type of humor is fading from the park. . .Ellen's Energy Adventure retains some, but the new additions of Project Gemini don't appear to offer this key facet of EPCOT. Good, clean humor ensures that an attraction will be family friendly -- so this one value of the park covers a whole variety of bases.

And Spaceship Earth, I believe, is a prime example of a ride's potential educativeness. . .this is executed with such prime artistry, inspiring messages, and eye-catching detail throughout. No attraction is quite like it in any Disney park, and it should continue to stand as a hallmark of EPCOT showmanship (unless, that is, there is a replacement that is only more effective in performing this task).

Great ideas, EpcoTim. . .I believe an air pavilion could potentially serve EPCOT's mission better than an outdoor rollercoaster. But now that Mission:SPACE is opened, possibly some of the "flight" appeal of that pavilion may have been lost. As for the arts, EPCOT is attempting to celebrate them in its World Music Festival and in other presentations throughout World Showcase. . .which are very entertaining and culturally enriching, I believe.
 

meeko_33785

Well-Known Member
Originally posted by Buzzy989
As you say, we are not in any position to completely debunk Time Racers. However, both I and some other forum members are just highlighting the need to view these possible changes with utmost caution. The experiences in each pavilion should be distinct and like no other in the entire universe. . .and the information that we have gathered on Time Racers does not yet indicate that the new attraction will feature superior, absolutely unique forms of both technology and storytelling to make a good replacement for the signature attraction of Spaceship Earth. We can only hope that the Imagineers have something wonderful and awe-inspiring up their sleeves . . . if they do, then who's complaining?

Quite honestly, right now none of us have any idea what Time Racers will be like or if it will even happen. I think it's far too soon to tell. You are right, we can hope it will be a great attraction that will be a step up from what it is now, but with all the posts I see about this particular rumor, it always seems to me like everyone is complaining about it, like Disney has commited the ultimate sin by even thinking of replacing this attraction. Audiences have changed since 1982, so why shouldn't the ride change also? I'm not saying that it should be a roller coaster or anything, but I just think that change can be good and it is necissary to keep the parks fresh and exciting. I say lets all keep an open mind and not keep lamenting how terrible it is that Spaceship Eath is leaving.

Originally posted by Buzzy989
Rainforest Rollercoaster, however, seems to be much more well known to the members of this forum. . .especially since it appears that it is far further in production than other Project Gemini rides. As I have asserted before, this attraction is mainly designed to be an "ATTRACTion," luring teenage resort guests to the highly sophisticated EPCOT. But such an addition, however, would mar severely the sophisticated image of EPCOT. . .inspiration, cutting-edge technological advancement, and a respect for the aesthetic quality of the park (especially Future World West) would have no place in such a ride. The information we have gathered on this attraction surely paints a negative picture. . .although we cannot know assuredly that this coaster will be completely detrimental to EPCOT's traditional values, all current signs point to this unfortunate reality, and therefore many of us are raising the red flag for substantial concern.

In my oppinion, Coasters are not necissarily a bad thing. It's obvious that Disney is not planning on planting a cheep Dino-Rama type of coaster in front of the Land Pavillion, so that's one possitive thing. Disney is planning on actually theming the Coaster to the rainforest. That's another good thing. The queue will most likely be well themed as well. That's yet another good thing. It will bring more intrest to EPCOT and, hense, higher attendance. These are all good things. If Disney does this right, it could be a great coaster like Big Thunder Mountain or some of their other well-done thrill rides.

Originally posted by Buzzy989
I think that many of the concepts of Gemini disrupt the very foundations of EPCOT. . .and would create an ENTIRELY new atmosphere and slate of values for Future World. What we have now is so generally embraced, and the right changes and additions, if executed tastefully with regard to guest friendliness and inspiration, distinct technological achievement, and respect for EPCOT's aesthetic standards, would constitute something far greater than change or modernization -- true progress.

To be perfectly honest, I think that a new atmosphere for Future World would be a great thing. From what I've seen of the plans to turn Furtre World into Discoveryland will make the entire area beautiful with it's new greenery and landscaping replacing it's current concrete and dreary beige buildings. My only problem is that how much money it would take to do this transformation and if it would really be worth all that money that could be spent building attractions at either EPCOT or other parks. I think it would be great to have a new Future World, but I think adding new attractions to all of the parks would be far more inportant.
 

EpcoTim

Well-Known Member
The robots of Horizons, the "people" of World of Motion, the kings look as he saw the wheel on SE, all contained that humoruous edge that made the rides really special. Its those little details that i will miss when all is said and done.

Im a big fan of the pacilion concept. A good educational show and/or ride, and a good thrill ride under one roof. It seems to fit EPCOT perfectly. You could spend a good amount of time in each pavilion, and walk away with a little knowledge. And from Disneys stand point, there would be so much to do, that it would keep bringing guests back, just so they can experience it all.

As for Sky, I think a toned down, over head cosater style track would be cool. No loops or excessive speeds, but something tht gives you that feeling of being high n the air. They could take you over Paris, and over Americas vast landscapes, your feet dangling over the miniature models the whole while. What a great feeling that would be. Like soarin, but with an actual track, and actual movement. I know its a long shot....but,....Think about it, they could start you off as the Wright brothers, and your floppy plane would struggle to take off.....then on to later places and to Lindberghs flight...and on to the Jet and passenger plane era.....all while soaring high over scale models of cities, farms, etc....what a dream i guess. Then have the roof top of the building simulate the different faces the "sky" can take on. Show how trees and industry effect the atmosphere. lots of hands on...

I also say add a video to M:S, maybe an Imax deal, that takes you through the reaches of space, and explains the formation of the planets, the theory behind galaxies and blackholes, etc.....

Theres so many good ideas out there....but it seems no one at Disney is listening.
 

General Grizz

New Member
According to WESH News, WDI had plans to use 'screen technology' in the Time Racers idea. This was several months ago, and it seems to have as much reliability as Gemini itself. Microsoft would most likely be sponsoring... :lookaroun
 

EpcoTim

Well-Known Member
The 'screen' technology doesnt have the appeal to me that a true track style ride does. Its cool, but not the same.
 

General Grizz

New Member
Add to that the other 'screen' attractions:

Soarin' Over the Land
Impressions de France
Ellen's Energy Adventure
Mission: Space
Reflections of China
Norway Film
O, Canada!
Honey, I Shrunk the Audience!

And for now, the Living Seas, Circle of Life, Body Wars.
 

Buzzy989

New Member
Remembering EPCOT

Originally posted by meeko_33785
In my opinion, Coasters are not necissarily a bad thing. It's obvious that Disney is not planning on planting a cheep Dino-Rama type of coaster in front of the Land Pavillion, so that's one positive thing. Disney is planning on actually theming the Coaster to the rainforest. That's another good thing. The queue will most likely be well themed as well. That's yet another good thing. It will bring more intrest to EPCOT and, hence, higher attendance. These are all good things. If Disney does this right, it could be a great coaster like Big Thunder Mountain or some of their other well-done thrill rides.

The general interests of the public are certainly becoming more diverse, no longer able to find all of the satisfaction they need within a single theme park. Expedition Everest and Rock 'n Roller Coaster are out-and-out roller coasters which remain consistent with the values of their respective parks. . .the Everest coaster will be contained in its massive mountain structure, and Rock 'n Roller Coaster is certainly an appropriate attraction for the Disney MGM Studios, which has become the favorite park for many teen thrill seekers, I believe. EPCOT, unlike the other parks, has traditionally spoken to all of humanity -- all guests -- at once, and its attractions have traditionally combined concern for technological uniqueness and progress, the inspiration of park guests, and harmony with the surrounding environment. This potential new attraction violates these core principles. . .so this is not a matter of whether or not the attraction will be economically successful, but whether it will contribute to the integrity of a park which stands a head above the others in its mission. A outdoors roller coaster in Future World West would violate each of these concepts/values:

1) The tranquility of Future World West (something visionary in its own right), the stunning symmetry of this side of the park, and the park's overall aesthetic quality. Based on current ride plans, the roller coaster will likely be circling in FRONT of The Land pavilion, taking away severely from the beauty and dignity of the pavilion.

2) The structure of the park may be redefined. . .the Rainforest Rollercoaster could possibly violate the concept of a tightly-knit, World's Fair-style pavilion, altering a structure that is timeless and works well with park guests. The coaster will likely gain some independence from The Land, damaging this park value.

3) This attraction would possibly have to occupy the space of a current land attraction. . .the traditional family-oriented humor of an attraction like Circle of Life, which educates and entertains to great extents, would have to be abandoned for an attraction that is limited in its audience scope, is not as purposefully educational, and is not as socially constructive in the values it communicates. The vast majority of riders will ride for the sheer thrill -- and such thrill diverts from the educational potential and, in this case, would not likely be conducted in the very sophisticated tradition of Mission:SPACE (for instance). Messages of land preservation will be diluted -- vital concepts which could be more meaningfully dealt with in a ride or show which does not violate all of these time-honored EPCOT principles!

As previous messages have indicated, a roller coaster is not the only solution to what is a purely economic problem. When faced with an economic problem, the problems of new creative horizons and dilemmas of how guests of all ages could be profoundly inspired SHOULD BE dealt with as well! A roller coaster is just an easy fix. . .but Imagineering is surely capable of challenging themselves with creating a humorous, lighthearted, but inspiring attraction to counter the thrills of Mission:SPACE, Test Track, and Soarin' Over.

Attractions like the original Journey Into Imagination were well-loved and embraced by most park guests. . .but were approaching nearly twenty years of age. Successful traditional attractions can often be replaced with intense thrills -- BUT we still need a few new, fresh successful traditional attractions to take their places! Remember the diversity of our audiences! Whatever happened to enchanting songs, endearing characters, and captivating stories? Let's not forget these words of wisdom from an Imagination Pavilion songwriter, Robert Sherman: "Walt Disney understood that a song is what people carry away with them. People can go to a Disney picture or park and be enchanted by it, but when they go home, the song is what they keep."

When a lighthearted, enjoyable, educational, beautiful pavilion like Wonders of Life needs replacement, it should have a due replacement or update. Why build a new roller coaster when an attraction successful with families, consistent with EPCOT's mission, and unachievable in any other park can be constructed?

A new atmosphere for EPCOT, consistent with its missions, would be a welcome change, as the park was intended to reflect both the idealism and realism of our future community. But the addition of trees to seemingly compensate for the crowdedness induced by adding attractions (like a roller coaster) just does not seem appropriate or respectful to the park's aims. I would certainly not mind if extra greenery were added here and there to Future World. . .but it certainly does not need to be a forest, as some concepts illustrate (after all, Animal Kingdom has forests!). The color scheme could certainly be enriched. . .but with the presence of the fountain and the added warmth of the more recent changes to Innoventions Plaza, I certainly do not perceive the "cold concreteness" of Future World to be unsettling or overwhelming (or as extensive as some make it out to be).

Money could be spent on a drastic makeover of Future World. . . but, given the strain on this resource, more funds and creativity should be poured into genuinely heartwarming and memorable attractions that not only improve the park, but also improve the minds and hearts of its guests.

Sure, add some genuine heart to the appearance of Future World, but don't take it away from the attractions featured there!
 

J.E.Smith

Well-Known Member
You've made a lot of good points out there. There is no way they can pull off putting a coaster in front without detracting from the beauty. And you're right, they COULD have made more imagative ride ideas than just a simple coaster that you could ride in any other park. Of course, us Disney otakus could do a better job of coming up with better plans than this whole Gemini thing.(And I do a couple who have already...but I ain't sayin' who;) )

I like your way of thinking, Buzzy^_^.
 

WDWacky

New Member
Well Said

Just wanted to tell Buzzy that I think he should write for the Orlando Sentinel (if he doesn't already!). That was a fantasically worded post and very insightful.

I happen to agree with just about everything you say. It seems like Disney is relying a little too heavily on thrills lately when it comes to remedying attendance problems. I mean I'm all for new coasters and have no objection at all to the addition of thrill rides to the parks, but I'd also like to see a new dark ride or two show up at some point. Disney has created some pretty darn good animated characters in the past few years (well ... Pixar has anyway ;) ) and I'd love to see a Monsters, Inc. or Stitch ride installed somewhere. Something of the same quality and theming as Pooh would be nice ...

I'm very glad we have the opportunity to even discuss new rides again after the doom and gloom of the last few years, but I sure hope Disney doesn't completely lose site of its roots.
 

FigmentJedi

Well-Known Member
Originally posted by Buzzy989
Based on an early 80's profile of EPCOT Center, one of the four major philosophical components of the park was, believe it or not, HUMOR! Humor is the best means to educate without the material becoming burdensome, as well as one of the best means to entertain.
And my Spaceship Earth update would have humor.Alongside learning about communications,Guests would embark on a search for a Dancing Hamster that has stolen a small time machine and is traveling through the ages and dancing around in costumes of the era.Add humorous narration and you have a strange and funny update.
 

Dizknee_Phreek

Well-Known Member
this seems to have become a battle where those who are pro PG think that those against it are anti-change. i really don't think this is the case. i, for example, usually hate changes in any fashion...but i'm not totally against it, particulary in terms of Disney. if the change betters the park, then i'm all for it...but if they're changing something just to be changing it, THAT'S when i'm anti-change. as grizzly hall said, PROGRESS! true, Walt said that he wanted the parks to keep changing, but i doubt he'd be happy with the kind of changes being made as of recently. Disney has obviously distanced themselves from the ideas of Walt's time, for whatever reason and it's sad.

"What we have now is so generally embraced, and the right changes and additions, if executed tastefully with regard to guest friendliness and inspiration, distinct technological achievement, and respect for EPCOT's aesthetic standards, would constitute something far greater than change or modernization -- true progress"

yet again, well said, Buzzy! and again, i agree! progress = change but change doesn't always = progress...if that makes sense.

i agree with those who have said that thrill rides do have a place in the parks...but in moderation! there has to be a balance! if FW becomes Disney's 'thrill park', then Epcot will suffer the same fate as MGM and AK for some...as in, yet another half-a-day park.

btw, according to the travel channel, the concept for MGM started way before Universal built a park in FL. but really, who cares which came first? MGM is better themed anyway. there's nothing like the feeling of being in the middle of the golden age of Hollywood!
 

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