Prices for the Polynesian DVC Bungalows

[Next Big Thing]

I think the point is that Disney has been focusing too much lately on catering to the super rich just to make their own pockets grow.

How about the rest of us? The majority? A few more true "value" resorts would be great but, I'll say it again, a new park needs to come along soon to help spread out the capacity.

I agree a new park is needed... eventually. But WDW has so many problems at the moment. DHS is a 2-3 hour park is you do it right, DAK still needs more expansion, past Avatar and RoL, and Epcot is simply a mess.

They need to fix what they have and capacity won't be such a problem. Everyone flocks to MK, which is a big capacity problem, because there's no reason to go to DHS and DAK past noon (unless you want to see Fantasmic!). Epcot is still a full day park, but it has many problems and Future World is a mess of epic proportions at the moment.

Oh, and if/when they do build a 5th park, they need to do it right and actually open it with the thought of it being a full day park from the start. They half assed both DHS and DAK and they're still cleaning up those messes. If a new park is ever built, it needs to be one right.

 

[DVC Mike]

What an interesting read this thread has been. Regardless, the bottom line is that Disney's Polynesian Villas & Bungalows will most likely be successful for DVC. I'm not buying, but there will be plenty who will.

 

[disneydudette]

Stumbled upon this while looking into 'fixed week' contracts:

Intercot Foruns, June 2013

I just read this and had to share. It seems 2 Grand Villas with the fixed week option for were sold for Christmas time (week 52). That would be 1,395 points at $145 per point or $202,275 per contract with maintenance fees of about $7,500 per year.

I will say it looks like consensus for Poly DVC is overwhelmingly positive. Exisiting members and those who've been hesitant to buy are excited for this ownership opportunity.

Playing around with resale and dates... for a $24k buy in (300pts at SSR and BWV) we could have 5 trips in 6 years, 2 of which would be week long stays in the bungalows... with another bungalow stay (and 3 other trips) planned in the following 3 years.

10 trips, 9 years, 3 bungalows... $24k investment and $1685 annual dues. The investment of course DOUBLES for those buying directly with DVC (300pts at $48k, $1821 annual dues.)

That's strictly new members... exisiting members are looking to buy into the Polynesian DVC in smaller contracts. If the new points 'push' them to that 300pt level... they shouldn't have much issue staying in a bungalow every few years... if they so choose.

I don't really see how that's considered unachievable or '1%' required.

 

[olinecoach61]

It's super expensive, I could never afford to stay there but I don't begrudge those who do. The idea of DVC appeals to me but the buy in costs and break even points scare me a bit.

 

[twebber55]

its pretty simple to me...of course its expensive you re right next to the most popular theme park on the planet if you don't want to pay to stay there your choice if you do good for you
obviously there is a cliental out there who is willing to pay it

 

[ford91exploder]

I was just speaking from my own experience in dealing with well off people. I dont have any documented evidence to back it up but I deal with wealthy people a lot for work and from what Ive seen they tend to either buy it all or nothing. Ive had countless rich folks tell me they would NEVER lease a car or buy a time share. Thats just my small bubble of reality, the larger picture could be much different. I did not intend to seem like I know it for fact.

I can see not leasing a 'personal' car or a conventional fixed week timeshare. A point based timeshare is a different animal in that it offers flexibility.

The one very popular timeshare for the wealthy is a fractional jet where you buy X hours of time on a fleet of planes, You 'buy in' which finances the aircraft and then you pay your MF which covers flight crew, maintenance and fuel.

 

[The Mom]

The 1% we all like to talk about starts at about $400K a year in income and up. I don't know anyone in the lower end of that ballpark who is driving a customer made car. Not saying there aren't some, but that's something more common with the super rich and celebrities. More like the top 0.1%

People also forget that the wealth gap in the top 1% is huge! And there are more people at the lower ($400,000 to million) level than at the million+ level.

 

[ParentsOf4]

Until recently, a direct DVC purchase from Disney offered customers genuine long-term savings.

For example, memberships at Bay Lake Tower (BLT) were available for less than $100/point with incentives only 6 years ago. With annual Maintenance Fees (MF) starting at $3.67/point and Standard View Studios requiring 139 points/week for Magic Season, early BLT members were paying only $72.88/night to stay within walking distance of the Magic Kingdom during the summer and spring break.

At those prices, cash purchasers had reasonable expectations of reaching the breakeven point in less than a decade, even factoring in WDW's common 30% discount on Deluxe Resort accommodations.

6 years later, the Polynesian Villas & Bungalows (PVB) is starting at $160/point for current DVC members and is to sure to be at least $10/points higher by the end of the year. Its MF is starting at $6.02/point while a Standard View Studio there requires 169 points/week for Magic Season, meaning a room at PVB will start at $145.34/night during summer and spring break, double what BLT started at.

Realistically, it will take around 2 decades for someone paying cash to reach the breakeven point at PVB, closer to 3 decades for someone taking out a Disney loan. Alter those vacation plans to stay at the Yacht & Beach Club, and that breakeven approaches 4 decades.

Imagine that, 40 years of vacations at Disney's Yacht & Beach Club costs less than a PVB purchase.

Within just the last few years, Disney has gone from simply charging a premium for its brand name to preying on the ignorance of the consumer in the despicable way infamous in the timeshare industry.

 

[flynnibus]

.

Playing around with resale and dates... for a $24k buy in (300pts at SSR and BWV) we could have 5 trips in 6 years, 2 of which would be week long stays in the bungalows... with another bungalow stay (and 3 other trips) planned in the following 3 years.

10 trips, 9 years, 3 bungalows... $24k investment and $1685 annual dues. The investment of course DOUBLES for those buying directly with DVC (300pts at $48k, $1821 annual dues.)

I don't really see how that's considered unachievable or '1%' required.

A best case scenario , Never mind you thinking you'll have availability at 7m

If you bought 300 pts, that's only 1800 points in 6 years no matter how you slice it. Min weekly is 841 points. Leaving only 118 points for your 3 other trips... So those would be 3 weekend stays probably.

At best case.. 118 = 11 days at ssr . So 24k plus 9300 in dues for Ssr for 25 hotel nights ... Or 1332/night

But if we assume you sell your points after six years... Let's assume best case and you get 80% back... You are down to 564/night and you've traveled only in the cheapest season.

This kind of thinking is how Disney will keep the addicts on the drip. It's not unobtainable, you just have to prioritize Disney.

You are correct you don't need to be a 1%er... And many of us have already argued this is not a 1%er product. Some people are just using the argument that there is an audience that money is no object so the price is immaterial.

 

[ford91exploder]

Until recently, a direct DVC purchase from Disney offered customers genuine long-term savings.

For example, memberships at Bay Lake Tower (BLT) were available for less than $100/point with incentives only 6 years ago. With annual Maintenance Fees (MF) starting at $3.67/point and Standard View Studios requiring 139 points/week for Magic Season, early BLT members were paying only $72.88/night to stay within walking distance of the Magic Kingdom during the summer and spring break.

At those prices, cash purchasers had reasonable expectations of reaching the breakeven point in less than a decade, even factoring in WDW's common 30% discount on Deluxe Resort accommodations.

6 years later, the Polynesian Villas & Bungalows (PVB) is starting at $160/point for current DVC members and is to sure to be at least $10/points higher by the end of the year. Its MF is starting at $6.02/point while a Standard View Studio there requires 169 points/week for Magic Season, meaning a room at PVB will start at $145.34/night during summer and spring break, double what BLT started at.

Realistically, it will take around 2 decades for someone paying cash to reach the breakeven point at PVB, closer to 3 decades for someone taking out a Disney loan. Alter those vacation plans to stay at the Yacht & Beach Club, and that breakeven approaches 4 decades.

Imagine that, 40 years of vacations at Disney's Yacht & Beach Club costs less than a PVB purchase.

Within just the last few years, Disney has gone from simply charging a premium for its brand name to preying on the ignorance of the consumer in the despicable way infamous in the timeshare industry.

Precisely its the Dining Plan all over again, Once an outstanding bargain now an overpriced and oversold product which offers no real advantage over cash.

 

[GoofGoof]

People also forget that the wealth gap in the top 1% is huge! And there are more people at the lower ($400,000 to million) level than at the million+ level.

I read an article from Forbes talking about the earning disparity within the top 1%. They made the same point. The wealth gap is greater between the top and bottom of the 1% group than it is between the top 1% and the bottom 99%. They also made the point that many people in the bottom half of the top 1% are putting off retirement indefinitely because their retirement money is not enough to to maintain their current lifestyle. I think it's probably this very group who would be the 1%ers buying something like these bungalows. The filthy rich couldn't be bothered. I think when people talk about 1%ers they are really using it as a buzz word for the filthy rich. They really mean the top 0.1%.

 

[Cesar R M]

Until recently, a direct DVC purchase from Disney offered customers genuine long-term savings.

For example, memberships at Bay Lake Tower (BLT) were available for less than $100/point with incentives only 6 years ago. With annual Maintenance Fees (MF) starting at $3.67/point and Standard View Studios requiring 139 points/week for Magic Season, early BLT members were paying only $72.88/night to stay within walking distance of the Magic Kingdom during the summer and spring break.

At those prices, cash purchasers had reasonable expectations of reaching the breakeven point in less than a decade, even factoring in WDW's common 30% discount on Deluxe Resort accommodations.

6 years later, the Polynesian Villas & Bungalows (PVB) is starting at $160/point for current DVC members and is to sure to be at least $10/points higher by the end of the year. Its MF is starting at $6.02/point while a Standard View Studio there requires 169 points/week for Magic Season, meaning a room at PVB will start at $145.34/night during summer and spring break, double what BLT started at.

Realistically, it will take around 2 decades for someone paying cash to reach the breakeven point at PVB, closer to 3 decades for someone taking out a Disney loan. Alter those vacation plans to stay at the Yacht & Beach Club, and that breakeven approaches 4 decades.

Imagine that, 40 years of vacations at Disney's Yacht & Beach Club costs less than a PVB purchase.

Within just the last few years, Disney has gone from simply charging a premium for its brand name to preying on the ignorance of the consumer in the despicable way infamous in the timeshare industry.

Pretty sure Iger now sees DVC as a cashcow, not a money saver for other people.
I notice they are no longer seen as a way to archieve "savings" but as a "Status" level now.
Hence the insane price bosts on points and starting payments.

 

[ford91exploder]

their own private mini pool.

Pretty sure Iger now sees DVC as a cashcow, not a money saver for other people.
I notice they are no longer seen as a way to archieve "savings" but as a "Status" level now.
Hence the insane price bosts on points and starting payments.

That's obvious with the maintenance cutbacks at the DVC properties, Although that's playing with fire as the MF's are SUPPOSED to go to maintenance of the properties NOT fattening TWDC's bottom line. Maintenance has been cut WAY back while MF's have double digit rate increases.

Soon there will be a class action suit which Disney will LOSE due to the documentary evidence from too many people. When I go into a Grand Villa and the plastic front is peeling off the Microwave that's willful, Stuff like this DID NOT USED TO HAPPEN.

I'm TIRED of having to go through my unit and document broken/damaged things and report them to the front desk SO I DON'T GET CHARGED FOR THEM.

 

[peter11435]

That's obvious with the maintenance cutbacks at the DVC properties, Although that's playing with fire as the MF's are SUPPOSED to go to maintenance of the properties NOT fattening TWDC's bottom line. Maintenance has been cut WAY back while MF's have double digit rate increases.

Soon there will be a class action suit which Disney will LOSE due to the documentary evidence from too many people. When I go into a Grand Villa and the plastic front is peeling off the Microwave that's willful, Stuff like this DID NOT USED TO HAPPEN.

I'm TIRED of having to go through my unit and document broken/damaged things and report them to the front desk SO I DON'T GET CHARGED FOR THEM.

Just because some things are not getting fixed does not mean disney is profiting from the MF's. Simply documenting things that are broken would not win a lawsuit. You would have to prove that Disney is spending less to maintain the properties than they are collecting in MF's.

 

[ParentsOf4]

Maintenance has been cut WAY back while MF's have double digit rate increases.

Historically, WDW DVC Maintenance Fees (MF) have increased at reasonable rates. Since 2001, WDW MF have increased by an average of 3.9% annually.

The single biggest one-year increase in WDW DVC Maintenance Fees (MF) was 6.3% in 2006.

More disconcerting for DVC members is what's happened at Animal Kingdom Villas (AKV) and Bay Lake Towers (BLT), which have averaged 5.9% and 6.8% each year over the last 4 years.

In 2014, WDW MF increased by an average of 3.6%.

In 2015, WDW MF increased by an average of 3.7%.

For comparison, WDW hotels rack rates increased by an average of 3.2.% in 2015. For those interested in the details:

• DVC Resorts: 2.2%
• Deluxe Resorts: 4.1%
• Moderate Resorts: 2.6%
• Value Resorts: 3.4%

WDW hotel rack rates could increase further in 2015, depending on the strength of bookings. DVC MF are fixed for 2015 and cannot increase any further for the year.

 

[SnarkyMonkey]

What an interesting read this thread has been. Regardless, the bottom line is that Disney's Polynesian Villas & Bungalows will most likely be successful for DVC. I'm not buying, but there will be plenty who will.

This is exactly what I think. In the end, does it matter who is staying there? The point is people will be staying there.

 

[ford91exploder]

Historically, WDW DVC Maintenance Fees (MF) have increased at reasonable rates. Since 2001, WDW MF have increased by an average of 3.9% annually.

The single biggest one-year increase in WDW DVC Maintenance Fees (MF) was 6.3% in 2006.

More disconcerting for DVC members is what's happened at Animal Kingdom Villas (AKV) and Bay Lake Towers (BLT), which have averaged 5.9% and 6.8% each year over the last 4 years.

In 2014, WDW MF increased by an average of 3.6%.

In 2015, WDW MF increased by an average of 3.7%.

For comparison, WDW hotels rack rates increased by an average of 3.2.% in 2015. For those interested in the details:

• DVC Resorts: 2.2%
• Deluxe Resorts: 4.1%
• Moderate Resorts: 2.6%
• Value Resorts: 3.4%

WDW hotel rack rates could increase further in 2015, depending on the strength of bookings. DVC MF are fixed for 2015 and cannot increase any further for the year.

As usual you are correct, I'm on the short end of the BLT increases while watching maintenance fall off.

 

[ford91exploder]

Just because some things are not getting fixed does not mean disney is profiting from the MF's. Simply documenting things that are broken would not win a lawsuit. You would have to prove that Disney is spending less to maintain the properties than they are collecting in MF's.

It will not take a Clarence Darrow to prove that considering similar properties in Midtown Manhattan (yes there ARE timeshares in NYC) have LOWER MF's and budgets and NYC has some of the highest labor/material/tax rates in the world while Orlando is a very low cost market. And those properties are maintained to a higher standard than Disney currently does.

What I expect to happen WHEN the class action occurs is Disney will settle rather than open their books.

 

[GoofGoof]

It will not take a Clarence Darrow to prove that considering similar properties in Midtown Manhattan (yes there ARE timeshares in NYC) have LOWER MF's and budgets and NYC has some of the highest labor/material/tax rates in the world while Orlando is a very low cost market. And those properties are maintained to a higher standard than Disney currently does.

What I expect to happen WHEN the class action occurs is Disney will settle rather than open their books.

When is this class action lawsuit coming? I'll take some free stuff

I seriously doubt Disney would settle anything. They would be setting a really bad precedent that I don't think they would want and encouraging a wave of lawsuits any time someone felt that their MFs were too high or service declined. I'm sure the legal people at Disney are making sure that all of the ducks are in a row and they are covered based on what they are required to do by law. The financial statements for each DVC resort are audited so there is at least some 3rd party over site involved.

The only way Disney could lose a lawsuit like this is if there was a "smoking gun" buried somewhere within the organization proving they were not using the MFs for what they are saying they are using them for. I don't think comparing the MFs to another timeshare and concluding they are too high is going to be enough evidence to win in court. If they did offer anything as a settlement it would likely be an offer to buy the points back from disgruntled owners at some established market price (similar to ROFR) as opposed to returning previous paid fees to owners.

 

[peter11435]

It will not take a Clarence Darrow to prove that considering similar properties in Midtown Manhattan (yes there ARE timeshares in NYC) have LOWER MF's and budgets and NYC has some of the highest labor/material/tax rates in the world while Orlando is a very low cost market. And those properties are maintained to a higher standard than Disney currently does.

What I expect to happen WHEN the class action occurs is Disney will settle rather than open their books.

Comparing to similar properties won't prove anything in court. Maybe those properties see less wear and tear due to a less destructive clientele.