Pleasure Island Changes

[WDW1974]

I never said they were not going after families. I specifically said they are targeting singles. You really need to work on your reading skills.

You clearly are intimating that Universal is going for a different demo than Disney was/is.

I'd love for you to tell the class how Universal through their marketing (or anything else) is specifically targeting singles. Can you?

You can't both cater to singles and families effectively in todays market. Disney has figured that out. Uni, not so much. That said, Uni is making a good effort at it. But, I personally think it will keep Uni from potentially being great.

Why can't you? And how has Disney figured that out? Disney targets anyone and everyone. That's the freaking premise behind many of their marketing schemes ... like the What Will YOU Celebrate? deal. You think this is only for birthdays ... and for birthdays where you bring your entire family for a week's vacation? I don't.


Oh, and some people may think Universal is great already.

 

[jt04]

YOU ARE SO CORRECT!

Universal is obviously targeting independent teens what with their wealth of financial assets. These self-sufficient minimum wage money makers, with learner permits, are a gold mine to the Cinnabon at City Walk where they loiter around hoping to score with foreign tourists.

This is exactly spelled out in NBC Universal's marketing campaign for the resort: Pay $11 dollars for parking in spare change found in your Honda and stay all night texting your friends.


For crap food and cheap atmospheric gimmicks?


...on their resumes after they accept the buyout package.


The Wand


:lookaroun

You too with the wand? So are you mad they built it or tore it down?

 

[WDW1974]

YOU ARE SO CORRECT!

Universal is obviously targeting independent teens what with their wealth of financial assets. These self-sufficient minimum wage money makers, with learner permits, are a gold mine to the Cinnabon at City Walk where they loiter around hoping to score with foreign tourists.

This is exactly spelled out in NBC Universal's marketing campaign for the resort: Pay $11 dollars for parking in spare change found in your Honda and stay all night texting your friends.

OMG!!!!!:ROFLOL::ROFLOL::ROFLOL::ROFLOL::ROFLOL:

Seriously, that is some funny stuff there.

If we had a WDWMAGIC Post of the Day then yours, my friend, would be it right there.

20,000 Leagues Under the Sea
Backlot Tour
Bland Cookie Cutter Merchandise
Cinderellabration
Country Bear Jamboree Holiday Edition
Diamond Horseshoe
Dining Plan's effects on quality of service/food/availability
DinoRama
Discovery Island
Discovery River Boats
DisneyQuest's Neglect
Disregard for park anniversaries and legacies
Empty Soundstages
The Enchanted Tiki Room Under New Management
FastPass
The Great (Dated) Movie Ride
The Hat
Hollow Marketing Campaigns
Horizons
ImageWorks
Innovention's Plaza
Journey into YOUR Imagination!
Journey into YOUR Imagination with Figment!
Leave a Legacy
Loss of strong focus and theme for Kingdom, Epcot, Studios
L'Originale Alfredo di Roma Ristorante
McDonald's Dining Locations
Mr. Toad's Wild Ride
The New O! Canada
Norway
Odyssey
Planet Hollywood
Pop Century's Legendary Years
Primeval Whirl
Rainforest Cafe
Recycled Magic Kingdom Parade
Reduced showings of Fantasmic!
Rigged Surveys
River Country
Shuttered Entertainment offerings with no replacement
Shuttered Dining offerings with no replacements
Sounds Dangerous
Spaceship Earth's Finale
Space Mountain's Refurbishment Turmoil
Stitch's Great Escape
The Timekeeper
Transportation and Ticket Center
The Universe of Energy
Upkeep and lack of refurbishments
Vacation Club Kiosks
The Wand
Wonders of Life
World of Motion
The Yeti

:lookaroun

No real comment (I think the only thing you left out was the actual DVCing of WDW) ... I just wanted to make sure people saw the list again!

Lot of magic there!:wave:

 

[NMBC1993]

So uh...*cough*....how bout that PI huh?:lookaroun

 

[unkadug]

WOW, this thread sure got off track.


I am still kind of amazed that I find myself on WDW1974's side of the fence on this one. :lookaroun

There is NO master plan for PI.

 

[Master Yoda]

WOW, this thread sure got off track.


I am still kind of amazed that I find myself on WDW1974's side of the fence on this one. :lookaroun

There is NO master plan for PI.

I think that Disney had a master plan for PI but it was dependent on 3rd party retailers and restaurants beating down their door for the recently vacated space at PI. It would have worked 5 years ago but in the middle of a recession it was not the best business plan.

 

[MousDad]

I'm just impressed that the magical list was alphabetized.

 

[GothMickey]

Whatever their plan was, it worked for a while. Now, it is a mess. Maybe they have a plan, maybe they don't. Maybe it is one of those times of transition.

 

[Erika]

WAY too many personal attacks going on here. I've cleaned it up; please keep it that way. Thanks.

 

[71jason]

Seriously. Disney wants a nighttime entertainment complex for families.

First, the existing/planned re-do of PI was hardly for "families." An upscale Irish pub with a meet market bar. An upscale Latin restaurant with a tequila bar. A cigar bar. To this, they wanted to add a high-end steakhouse and a Cheesecake Factory. This is far more Sand Lake Road than Disney Marketplace. The "family friendly" bit was just a PR smokescreen. Are you seriously prepared to argue otherwise?

Second, WDW already has a nighttime entertainment complex for families. It's called the Magic Kingdom. It makes a lot more money, in cover charge as well as food and merchandise, than DTD. 1974 made a point back on page 2 that everyone seems to have ignored--right now, people go to DTD because it's free. It's a way to cap off a day at the pool and not have to buy tickets that day. Maybe splurge on a "fun" restaurant (T-Rex, RFC), hit a movie, but not spend $50/$60 a head on an extra day ticket. The idea that Disney would willingly cannabalize their core demo to build a free nighttime entertainment complex is insane. Everything at DTD right now is designed to minimize the economic loss of a guest who isn't in a park--there's no economic incentive to turn DTD into a family destination in its own right.

PI is a long term plan and I believe when they are done there will be no "Marketplace", "PI", or "West End". It will all be a single massive family entertainment complex.

I heard this rumor when the closing rumors got serious (think Jim Hill brought it up). I've also heard that idea is dead. I don't know the inside details, but apparently it has to do with the existing PI tenants (Raglan, Fuego, H-D, Curl) and marketing. My educated guess is that if the name "PI" goes away, it's a significant enough change that they can break their leases--and as I mentioned in a thread a week or two ago, business is bad enough that they almost certainly would jump at the chance. WDW keeps changing out seasonal banners on the Island and kept the massive neon signs up despite guest confusion--there must be a reason "Pleasure Island" is still around.

BTW, can anyone confirm, at one point I heard thrown around 1 in 6 guests at WDW is a childless adult. Not an insignificant fraction.

 

[jmuboy]

YOU ARE SO CORRECT!

Universal is obviously targeting independent teens what with their wealth of financial assets. These self-sufficient minimum wage money makers, with learner permits, are a gold mine to the Cinnabon at City Walk where they loiter around hoping to score with foreign tourists.

This is exactly spelled out in NBC Universal's marketing campaign for the resort: Pay $11 dollars for parking in spare change found in your Honda and stay all night texting your friends.


For crap food and cheap atmospheric gimmicks?


...on their resumes after they accept the buyout package.


20,000 Leagues Under the Sea
Backlot Tour
Bland Cookie Cutter Merchandise
Cinderellabration
Country Bear Jamboree Holiday Edition
Diamond Horseshoe
Dining Plan's effects on quality of service/food/availability
DinoRama
Discovery Island
Discovery River Boats
DisneyQuest's Neglect
Disregard for park anniversaries and legacies
Empty Soundstages
The Enchanted Tiki Room Under New Management
FastPass
The Great (Dated) Movie Ride
The Hat
Hollow Marketing Campaigns
Horizons
ImageWorks
Innovention's Plaza
Journey into YOUR Imagination!
Journey into YOUR Imagination with Figment!
Leave a Legacy
Loss of strong focus and theme for Kingdom, Epcot, Studios
L'Originale Alfredo di Roma Ristorante
McDonald's Dining Locations
Mr. Toad's Wild Ride
The New O! Canada
Norway
Odyssey
Planet Hollywood
Pop Century's Legendary Years
Primeval Whirl
Rainforest Cafe
Recycled Magic Kingdom Parade
Reduced showings of Fantasmic!
Rigged Surveys
River Country
Shuttered Entertainment offerings with no replacement
Shuttered Dining offerings with no replacements
Sounds Dangerous
Spaceship Earth's Finale
Space Mountain's Refurbishment Turmoil
Stitch's Great Escape
The Timekeeper
Transportation and Ticket Center
The Universe of Energy
Upkeep and lack of refurbishments
Vacation Club Kiosks
The Wand
Wonders of Life
World of Motion
The Yeti

:lookaroun

Wow this list makes me sad. It also reminds me why I go to DL way more than I used to and go to WDW way less than I used to. Now DL certainly has its own issues. But it’s MUCH closer to perfect than WDW. The last 10 years or so have been hard on WDW. I say that since the opening of DAK the resort as a whole has seemed to have lost focus and direction. While some mistakes are hard to correct, a leader at the top of WDW with some vision can restore what’s “wrong” at least with the theme parks (neglecting the parks, lack of investment in the parks) fairly quickly and easily. The overbuilding of DVC and hotels is just something that we’ll have to live with. But that doesn’t mean it needs to continue. I really hope we see a stall in hotel construction after these DVC units underway are completed. Then take those resources and invest in the parks. Refocus and get them really sparkling again. Engage the imagination of the guests. Don’t give them cheap gimmicks just because you can. The parks are the reason we come to WDW. To be surrounded in the magic. The rest is just extra/bonus/fluff/the cherry on top.

 

[tirian]

20,000 Leagues Under the Sea
Backlot Tour
Bland Cookie Cutter Merchandise
Cinderellabration
Country Bear Jamboree Holiday Edition
Diamond Horseshoe
Dining Plan's effects on quality of service/food/availability
DinoRama
Discovery Island
Discovery River Boats
DisneyQuest's Neglect
Disregard for park anniversaries and legacies
Empty Soundstages
The Enchanted Tiki Room Under New Management
FastPass
The Great (Dated) Movie Ride
The Hat
Hollow Marketing Campaigns
Horizons
ImageWorks
Innovention's Plaza
Journey into YOUR Imagination!
Journey into YOUR Imagination with Figment!
Leave a Legacy
Loss of strong focus and theme for Kingdom, Epcot, Studios
L'Originale Alfredo di Roma Ristorante
McDonald's Dining Locations
Mr. Toad's Wild Ride
The New O! Canada
Norway
Odyssey
Planet Hollywood
Pop Century's Legendary Years
Primeval Whirl
Rainforest Cafe
Recycled Magic Kingdom Parade
Reduced showings of Fantasmic!
Rigged Surveys
River Country
Shuttered Entertainment offerings with no replacement
Shuttered Dining offerings with no replacements
Sounds Dangerous
Spaceship Earth's Finale
Space Mountain's Refurbishment Turmoil
Stitch's Great Escape
The Timekeeper
Transportation and Ticket Center
The Universe of Energy
Upkeep and lack of refurbishments
Vacation Club Kiosks
The Wand
Wonders of Life
World of Motion
The Yeti

:lookaroun

I think I'm going to be sick. :hurl:

Going back to what many of us, including you, have said in the past:

If this were ANY other successful "creative" company (Lucasfilm, Pixar, Studio Ghibli, Nintendo, etc.), the leadership would have been fired for grossly mismanaging and misunderstanding its own product. The bottom-line dollar has nothing to do with this list—I'm closer to the business end of things myself, and I know that the best way for a company to implode is for it to lose its focus.

 

[jakeman]

I really hope we see a stall in hotel construction after these DVC units underway are completed. Then take those resources and invest in the parks. Refocus and get them really sparkling again. Engage the imagination of the guests. Don’t give them cheap gimmicks just because you can. The parks are the reason we come to WDW. To be surrounded in the magic. The rest is just extra/bonus/fluff/the cherry on top. [/FONT]

DVC is not the issue. To say you want them to stop building DVC and reinvest in the parks is the equivalent of saying I want ESPN to end its Monday Night Football contract and build a ride.

For the list below, I'm just going to address only part of it with my opinion.

20,000 Leagues Under the Sea (wasn't this leaking?)
Bland Cookie Cutter Merchandise (I agree here)
Cinderellabration (temporary, it's gone now)
DinoRama (if you care about theming and story, you would understand this area)
Discovery Island (the animals were moved to DAK)
Disregard for park anniversaries and legacies (this is for fanboys, the general population doesn't care...even if they were celebrated, they would be seen as a cheap gimmick)
FastPass (random internet hate...if this was brought up a year ago there would be no complaints)
Horizons (was never impressed, the arguements regarding this attraction are severely diluted by the fact that some of the most voice fanboys were still in diapers when they saw it)
L'Originale Alfredo di Roma Ristorante (this is debatable, I was never particularly impressed with it)
McDonald's Dining Locations (they just removed the fry cart and there are two loactions in all of property)
Mr. Toad's Wild Ride (this is an opinion, but the Pooh ride is probably infinitly more popular)
Odyssey (agreed)
River Country (not really anyone's fault, there are two massive water parks on proprty)
Spaceship Earth's Finale (still working on it)
Space Mountain's Refurbishment Turmoil (if there was no internet there would be no turmoil)
Stitch's Great Escape (agreed)
The Timekeeper (although I enjoyed the show, it needed to go, no one ever went on it)

I'm not saying that part of the list were not valid issues, but some of the items on the list are just random fanboy complaints with no real basis in fact.

Just because a person doesn't agree with a change doesn't mean that the change is a bad thing. The most obvious example of this is Timekeeper. It was a great attraction, but it did not draw the crowds in like MLF does. I know that it has a fan base here but it was time for it to be replaced.

 

[Lee]

Space Mountain's Refurbishment Turmoil (if there was no internet there would be no turmoil)

Well....the turmoil would still be there, just most people wouldn't know about it.

 

[GothMickey]

Wow this list makes me sad. It also reminds me why I go to DL way more than I used to and go to WDW way less than I used to. Now DL certainly has its own issues. But it’s MUCH closer to perfect than WDW. The last 10 years or so have been hard on WDW. I say that since the opening of DAK the resort as a whole has seemed to have lost focus and direction. While some mistakes are hard to correct, a leader at the top of WDW with some vision can restore what’s “wrong” at least with the theme parks (neglecting the parks, lack of investment in the parks) fairly quickly and easily. The overbuilding of DVC and hotels is just something that we’ll have to live with. But that doesn’t mean it needs to continue. I really hope we see a stall in hotel construction after these DVC units underway are completed. Then take those resources and invest in the parks. Refocus and get them really sparkling again. Engage the imagination of the guests. Don’t give them cheap gimmicks just because you can. The parks are the reason we come to WDW. To be surrounded in the magic. The rest is just extra/bonus/fluff/the cherry on top.

The DVC pays for itself. The money made by DVC goes back to DVC. How is that hurting the parks? Look at it this way, DVC owners will tend to visit WDW year after year. That is more than the average family, who may go once every 5-10 years, maybe one a lifetime. The returning DVCers will visit the parks, spend money on food, merchandise, park tickets, which will then generate money for the parks.

Blame park management for not taking the funds the parks make and putting back into the parks. Don't blame the DVC for the ills of the parks.

 

[MousDad]

Help me out someone. Does the WDW Resort as a whole fund and/or profit from the Orlando DVCs or not? Are we talking separate entities that can live or die on their own, or is it all the same pot. (I'm not talking about accounting shim sham, I'm talking about real use of the resort dollars.)

 

[Lee]

Not the same pot. They are seperately run and seperately funded divisions. Building DVC units does not in any way effect investement in the parks.
The only influence is indirect.

 

[Master Yoda]

Not the same pot. They are seperately run and seperately funded divisions. Building DVC units does not in any way effect investement in the parks.
The only influence is indirect.

ie DVC bringing in more repeat business to WDW thereby increasing the revenue at the parks.

 

[WDW1974]

WOW, this thread sure got off track.


I am still kind of amazed that I find myself on WDW1974's side of the fence on this one. :lookaroun

Why? Don't you like being right every once in a while?

There is NO master plan for PI.

Yes. But sadly there's no master plan for much at WDW. The theme parks (except for the Studios, which NEVER had one) had plans at one time. Not now.

These days there's just a whole lot of proposals. That's why things seem tossed in the parks ... because they are. Sometimes they luck out and get a pitch down the middle of the plate and hit it out of the park ... and sometimes we get Stitch's Great Belchoff, MILF and McPooh's Playground and Diaper Changing Area.

Parks aren't master planned with views to the future (DCA, DSP, HKDL to a lesser extent) and existing ones don't have five-year plans for growth and redevelopment.

 

[MousDad]

So the oft-maligned overbuilding of DVC really should not be a concern?