Pleasure Island Changes

[jt04]

Okay, I'm not trying to put words in your mouth, but I am going to try and articulate what I think are your points a little better for you.

Disney had a nightclub area wedged inbetween two "family" zones creating several issues and has choosen to convert the area to cater to a more representative demographic of their guest at the expense of a smaller demographic.

You are also saying that Disney feels that there are enough nightclub opportunities scatter throughout the rest of property.

Let me know if this is incorrect.

My opinion, is the empy PI area is the place that is hurting most on property right now, more than any other area. This is a huge track of land that is essentially abandoned. It is the equivalent of shuttering Liberty Square.

Yep you are exactly right. I am making the same point in different ways because sometimes it is hard to get people to see what they refuse to see. (not you).

PI is a long term plan and I believe when they are done there will be no "Marketplace", "PI", or "West End". It will all be a single massive family entertainment complex. Disney has said from day 1 it would take awhile and the ecomomy has only lengthened time frames.

 

[Captain Hank]

Not at night! And Disney aims to fix that and they will.

Umm, I don't mean to sound snarky, but the last time I checked, all three sections of Downtown Disney, plus the dinner shows and mini golf courses were open after the theme parks closed.

 

[jakeman]

Do we all agree that Westside really is a "family" zone. Save for the candy store, the theatre, and Disneyquest (which guests would most likely go to before PI opened) it's pretty much an extension of PI...Cigars, Bongos, HoB, and Cirque.:shrug:

Disney could have had their cake and ate it too by just building more dining and shopping along the parking lot side of PI connecting Marketplace and Westside and putting gates at the entrances of PI back.

I think so. With the exception of Cigars and HoB everything else is child appropriate.

 

[jakeman]

Yep you are exactly right. I am making the same point in different ways because sometimes it is hard to get people to see what they refuse to see. (not you).

PI is a long term plan and I believe when they are done there will be no "Marketplace", "PI", or "West End". It will all be a single massive family entertainment complex. Disney has said from day 1 it would take awhile and the ecomomy has only lengthened time frames.

Just curious, do you have a source? Only because we have it from some very respectable folks in this very thread, that there is no plan currently.

 

[jt04]

Umm, I don't mean to sound snarky, but the last time I checked, all three sections of Downtown Disney, plus the dinner shows and mini golf courses were open after the theme parks closed.

The whole point is DTD was not considered family friendly enough by enough guests that Disney decided to change it. Obviously Disney sees the need for more family entertainment for both on-site guests, off site visitors and locals.

Don't forget Disney would like those families that are staying off property to have a place to go after the parks close. DTD will serve that purpose.

If you think the market is not there just look at the lines for the Dino restaurant even in a bad economy. It's a huge market Disney has not been serving well, until now!

 

[CaptainMichael]

The whole point is DTD was not considered family friendly enough by enough guests that Disney decided to change it. Obviously Disney sees the need for more family entertainment for both on-site guests, off site visitors and locals.


If you think the market is not there just look at the lines for the Dino restaurant even in a bad economy. It's a huge market Disney has not been serving well, until now!

If you trust skewed survey results.

Wait, who was Rainforest serving?:veryconfu

 

[jt04]

If you trust skewed survey results.

Wait, who was Rainforest serving?:veryconfu

Ah but the rain forest is still doing well so there was obviously an untapped market. I believe the family market at DTD is nearly limitless.

If they skewed the results it is because they had every reason to. Time will prove just how smart that was.


By the way, and this isn't aimed at you, this thread has proven one thing beyond dispute, the recent WDW management bashing (and all other things WDW) on this forum is based solely on the closing of the AC.

 

[CaptainMichael]

If they skewed the results it is because they had every reason to. Time will prove just how smart that was.


By the way, and this isn't aimed at you, this thread has proven one thing beyond dispute, the recent WDW management bashing (and all other things WDW) on this forum is based solely on the closing of the AC.

That's unethical.

Not at all, there's more to it than that. AC was the straw that broke the camel's back.

 

[Captain Hank]

The whole point is DTD was not considered family friendly enough by enough guests that Disney decided to change it. Obviously Disney sees the need for more family entertainment for both on-site guests, off site visitors and locals.

Don't forget Disney would like those families that are staying off property to have a place to go after the parks close. DTD will serve that purpose.

If you think the market is not there just look at the lines for the Dino restaurant even in a bad economy. It's a huge market Disney has not been serving well, until now!

I'm afraid that I don't agree with your logic. With Disney Days of Christmas, Once Upon a Toy, Goofy's Candy Company, Rainforest Cafe, Ghirardelli Soda Fountain, Pooh's Corner, World of Disney, Lego Imagination Center, T-REX, the waterfront stage and numerous fountain play areas, I'm not sure how much more family-friendly Marketplace could possibly get. Likewise, West Side has DisneyQuest, AMC 24, Cirque du Soleil (to a certain degree), the Candy Cauldron, House of Blues (to a certain degree), Magic Masters, Magnetron, Planet Hollywood and many others.

Families staying off-property and locals already come to DTD. In droves. Look at how full the Marketplace and West-Side area parking lots are on a nightly basis. Most resort guests come on bus.

Anyway, I need to get some sleep.

 

[jt04]

That's unethical.

Not at all, there's more to it than that. AC was the straw that broke the camel's back.

Unethical? :ROFLOL:We are not talking medicine, law or politics here.


I'd love to hear what the "more" is that has provoked such whining like I have never seen.

Now it's my turn...

*grabs popcorn bowl*:slurp:

 

[WDW1974]

I usually look for the brightside in most situations and I know you and I have disagreed (even though I don't post near as much as you do). I don't buy that Horizons was a conspiracy

Conspiracy? No.

But did Disney decide to kill it off to justify its own goals? Yes. And I got that right from the horse's mouth so to speak ... Disney would have had a very hard time justifying closing Horizons had it been open 365 days a year and people knew about it ... that would have likely required keeping it and adding Space, something Disney wasn't willing to do ... and it was an option. That I know again for a fact.

or Mr. Toad should have been kept, but I watched PI for several years and it was pretty apparent to me that Disney killed the island on purpose.

I'm not sure anyone can look at the sequence of events regarding the island and not see that. It was either calculated or incredibility stupid.

I vote for both. And it was ... really.

I also think that the problem with PI was most likely incredibly complicated issue that we probably only scratch the surface of.

I dunno ... I know some here like to make running this resort much more complicated than it is ... and ascribe personality traits and morals and intelligence amongst the WDW exec 'leadership' team that frankly isn't accurate.

I think this thread, and many others here, have hit on any and every issue that really mattered when it came to the decision to let PI wither and die.

There was no hidden 'X' factor that fans were/are too simple-minded to figure out.

 

[CaptainMichael]

Unethical? :ROFLOL:We are not talking medicine, law or politics here.


I'd love to hear what the "more" is that has provoked such whining like I have never seen.

Now it's my turn...

*grabs popcorn bowl*:slurp:

What's the difference? We're talking about a corporation skewing results to reach a certain conclusion (sounds like a scenario I've heard in the news before). People are/were being manipulated. What about that is not unethical? We have witnesses here who have either taken or seen the survey in question.

YoMD, the sad state of the Studios, DAK getting slighted, the sad state of the TTC, the wand, WWYC, PI suspending nightly New Years Eve and taking down the gates, substandard refurbs (minus Haunted Mansion and to an extend SSE) and more.

 

[jt04]

What's the difference? We're talking about a corporation skewing results to reach a certain conclusion (sounds like a scenario I've heard in the news before). People are/were being manipulated. What about that is not unethical? We have witnesses here who have either taken or seen the survey in question.

YoMD, the sad state of the Studios, DAK getting slighted, the sad state of the TTC, the wand, WWYC, PI suspending nightly New Years Eve and taking down the gates, substandard refurbs (minus Haunted Mansion and to an extend SSE) and more.

Most of these I don't agree with or they are minor.

The wand!!!??? Really??????????:shrug:

 

[WDW1974]

Universal is definitely marketing to singles, like it or not. Didn't say they don't want famalies too, but singles are a huge part of their business model. No doubt about it.

That's just not true.

Not at all.

Both Universal and Disney aim squarely at the FAMILY market, first and foremost, and then go after everyone else from empty-nesters to singles to extended families to 'non-traditional' families etc ...

Maybe Disney does it with pixie dust while Universal does it with simple substance, but the results are the same.

The bread and butter visitor by far to Disney and Universal is a family with 2.3 children spending a week to 10 days in Orlando.

 

[CaptainMichael]

Most of these I don't agree with or they are minor.

The wand!!!??? Really??????????:shrug:

I really don't see anything minor on that list. The wand was awful beyond the Millenium. Really, it was. I don't need a big, disembodied arm to tell me what park I'm at. That's what the incredibly beautiful geosphere is for.

 

[WDW1974]

By the way, and this isn't aimed at you, this thread has proven one thing beyond dispute, the recent WDW management bashing (and all other things WDW) on this forum is based solely on the closing of the AC.

That's absurd ... and ignorant.

As someone who has been a vocal critic of WDW management both online and behind the scenes for many years (sadly), the closure of AC wouldn't make my top 10 list of boneheaded moves ... although the killing of PI would.

 

[jt04]

That's just not true.

Not at all.

Both Universal and Disney aim squarely at the FAMILY market, first and foremost, and then go after everyone else from empty-nesters to singles to extended families to 'non-traditional' families etc ...

Maybe Disney does it with pixie dust while Universal does it with simple substance, but the results are the same.

The bread and butter visitor by far to Disney and Universal is a family with 2.3 children spending a week to 10 days in Orlando.

I never said they were not going after families. I specifically said they are targeting singles. You really need to work on your reading skills.

You can't both cater to singles and families effectively in todays market. Disney has figured that out. Uni, not so much. That said, Uni is making a good effort at it. But, I personally think it will keep Uni from potentially being great.

 

[jt04]

I really don't see anything minor on that list. The wand was awful beyond the Millenium. Really, it was. I don't need a big, disembodied arm to tell me what park I'm at. That's what the incredibly beautiful geosphere is for.

Oh, I thought you were saying it was a bad decision to take it down.:ROFLOL:

 

[Lee]

Why do you assume it was aimed at you?

Aimed at me? One of the biggest AC freaks around? Hope not.
Like Michael said earlier, AC was just the straw that broke the camel's back. In my case, it is just what moved the PI issue from a business decision I disagreed with to something more personal. Yeah, I hold a grudge about it, and have developed much animosity towards those responsible. However, that in no way changes the facts.

Fact. Closing PI was a money-based decision. Period.
It had nothing to do with demographics. They saw a way to turn expensive to run locations into third-party run operations where they could just take a hefty cut off the top without any of the expense or hassle. Aiming to get the family demographic into the old PI area? Nope. What is the only thing set to open there? A bar. A bar run by someone else that they don't have to take any risk on.
Where did something family oriented open up? T-shirt shop, way at the end of Marketplace. It is about cash, not changing demographics.
That's it. It's not my opinion, it's the way it is. No spin. No conjecture.

I call it like I see it, and most of the time I see it as Disney doing the right thing, even when it is more right for them than for guests. I can be objective, and though I may not like it as a guest, I can understand it from a business point of view. PI...not the case at all.

Now, please, tell me why you are so certain that this is all going according to some master plan? And how they are looking to make PI more family oriented. (I guess kids might like Salty Rim. Wouldn't know, I don't have any.)

 

[GymLeaderPhil]

Disney does not want to cater to independent teens (not accompanied by parents) and childless singles. Universal does. This ain't rocket science.

YOU ARE SO CORRECT!

Universal is obviously targeting independent teens what with their wealth of financial assets. These self-sufficient minimum wage money makers, with learner permits, are a gold mine to the Cinnabon at City Walk where they loiter around hoping to score with foreign tourists.

This is exactly spelled out in NBC Universal's marketing campaign for the resort: Pay $11 dollars for parking in spare change found in your Honda and stay all night texting your friends.

Ah but the rain forest is still doing well so there was obviously an untapped market.

For crap food and cheap atmospheric gimmicks?

If they skewed the results it is because they had every reason to. Time will prove just how smart that was.

...on their resumes after they accept the buyout package.

By the way, and this isn't aimed at you, this thread has proven one thing beyond dispute, the recent WDW management bashing (and all other things WDW) on this forum is based solely on the closing of the AC.

20,000 Leagues Under the Sea
Backlot Tour
Bland Cookie Cutter Merchandise
Cinderellabration
Country Bear Jamboree Holiday Edition
Diamond Horseshoe
Dining Plan's effects on quality of service/food/availability
DinoRama
Discovery Island
Discovery River Boats
DisneyQuest's Neglect
Disregard for park anniversaries and legacies
Empty Soundstages
The Enchanted Tiki Room Under New Management
FastPass
The Great (Dated) Movie Ride
The Hat
Hollow Marketing Campaigns
Horizons
ImageWorks
Innovention's Plaza
Journey into YOUR Imagination!
Journey into YOUR Imagination with Figment!
Leave a Legacy
Loss of strong focus and theme for Kingdom, Epcot, Studios
L'Originale Alfredo di Roma Ristorante
McDonald's Dining Locations
Mr. Toad's Wild Ride
The New O! Canada
Norway
Odyssey
Planet Hollywood
Pop Century's Legendary Years
Primeval Whirl
Rainforest Cafe
Recycled Magic Kingdom Parade
Reduced showings of Fantasmic!
Rigged Surveys
River Country
Shuttered Entertainment offerings with no replacement
Shuttered Dining offerings with no replacements
Sounds Dangerous
Spaceship Earth's Finale
Space Mountain's Refurbishment Turmoil
Stitch's Great Escape
The Timekeeper
Transportation and Ticket Center
The Universe of Energy
Upkeep and lack of refurbishments
Vacation Club Kiosks
The Wand
Wonders of Life
World of Motion
The Yeti

:lookaroun