Pleasure Island Changes

[WDW1974]

I think I'm going to be sick. :hurl:

Going back to what many of us, including you, have said in the past:

If this were ANY other successful "creative" company (Lucasfilm, Pixar, Studio Ghibli, Nintendo, etc.), the leadership would have been fired for grossly mismanaging and misunderstanding its own product. The bottom-line dollar has nothing to do with this list—I'm closer to the business end of things myself, and I know that the best way for a company to implode is for it to lose its focus.

In some areas, TWDC has lost focus.

WDW would be one of those areas.

You can see where there's vision shown ... walk into EPCOT (even in its Walmarted state) and look around and you see the vision of its creators ... heck, take the monorail to the MK and look at the resort development (BLT aside) and you see vision ... walk into DAK ... it's there.

But on so many levels, management has lost focus ... lost touch (if this group ever had it to begin with) with just what it is that it's selling.

WDW is no longer about being the best family entertainment destination ... a place where every detail is thought of and then some ... a place with world class guest service ... it's become a giant hotel/timeshare resort built on selling something marketing created called 'DISNEY MAGIC' ... it's almost as if they keep using words like magic, dreams, wishes etc ... that people will be blinded and won't notice the emperor's clothes are in tatters.

And it's true, no other creative company would ever keep employed so many people who have far more failures on theire resumes than successes ... but Disney truly is an old boys club.

 

[WDW1974]

First, the existing/planned re-do of PI was hardly for "families." An upscale Irish pub with a meet market bar. An upscale Latin restaurant with a tequila bar. A cigar bar. To this, they wanted to add a high-end steakhouse and a Cheesecake Factory. This is far more Sand Lake Road than Disney Marketplace. The "family friendly" bit was just a PR smokescreen. Are you seriously prepared to argue otherwise?

You are correct, sir.

The Sand Lake comparison is one I haven't heard, but it actually fits very, very well. That whole upscale dining area was kind of what Disney was hoping to create.

Grand Luxe Cafe, Smith and Wollensky and PF Chang's are not places that are overly kid friendly at all ... and those were three of the chains Disney was looking at.

I also want to add since it was in a post that disappeared that Disney has some very long range blue sky concept that calls for building basically mini dining and entertainment complexes near all four existing resorts ... the MK one would supposedly replace the TTC ... it all sounds like absurd BS to me except I know it has been proposed and there's a paper trail. How this played into the idea that it was OK to kill PI, I'm not sure. But I haven't heard anyone else toss that out and I am not sure how well known it is.

I heard this rumor when the closing rumors got serious (think Jim Hill brought it up). I've also heard that idea is dead. I don't know the inside details, but apparently it has to do with the existing PI tenants (Raglan, Fuego, H-D, Curl) and marketing. My educated guess is that if the name "PI" goes away, it's a significant enough change that they can break their leases--and as I mentioned in a thread a week or two ago, business is bad enough that they almost certainly would jump at the chance. WDW keeps changing out seasonal banners on the Island and kept the massive neon signs up despite guest confusion--there must be a reason "Pleasure Island" is still around.

No, PI can definitely change its name, and the goal is to rebrand the whole area as DD ... no PI, no Westside, no Marketplace ... just DD. No idea why they haven't done anything except that with PI's redevelopment stalled there is no need to do all the changes and marketing when you have a huge dead zone.

BTW, can anyone confirm, at one point I heard thrown around 1 in 6 guests at WDW is a childless adult. Not an insignificant fraction.

I would say that's certainly ballpark. May even be higher now.

 

[WDW1974]

So the oft-maligned overbuilding of DVC really should not be a concern?

As others have stated, it isn't a question of build the BLT or redo Fantasyland with new attractions or add timeshare to DAK Lodge or add some Tokyo-like attractions to DAK.

BUT ... it is a concern in that the only investment Burbank seems to want to make in O-Town is DVC.

And Disney PR will pass of these 'new' resorts in all their marketing and promo campaigns, much like they would attractions. 'See how can we be stale ... look at all the new stuff ...'

So no, as I've stated many times it isn't an either DVC or park investment question.

But it's definitely a problem when the only thing Disney really seems intent on building at WDW is timeshare.

 

[CaptainMichael]

And the DVC booths everywhere you turn in the pakrs....

 

[71jason]

I also want to add since it was in a post that disappeared that Disney has some very long range blue sky concept that calls for building basically mini dining and entertainment complexes near all four existing resorts ... the MK one would supposedly replace the TTC ... it all sounds like absurd BS to me except I know it has been proposed and there's a paper trail. How this played into the idea that it was OK to kill PI, I'm not sure. But I haven't heard anyone else toss that out and I am not sure how well known it is.

Interesting. Sometime around the last month of PI, I heard a similar rumor about a "mini PI" going in near AK, possibly with the Adventurers Club relocationg there. I'd since kind of dismissed this as a misunderstanding of Flamingo Crossing (unlikely, given the source was in a position to know better) or something connected to the proposed "Night Kingdom," but this sounds much more like what was described. Now I'm curious to see how far each of the four blue sky plans went.

No, PI can definitely change its name, and the goal is to rebrand the whole area as DD ... no PI, no Westside, no Marketplace ... just DD.

I can understand the logic behind this, but again, what I've heard is that the 3rd party tenants who've branded themselves as being "on PI" didn't want to lose that name. It's not just that WDW hasn't done anything (which wouldn't surprise me)--they actively changed out the banners on the light poles, first for Halloween, then for Christmas. Throw in the return of "PI Live" radio (noticably not "Downtown Disney Live") and it just seems they are hesitant to lose the branding of the area. If anything, it causes guest confusion and disappointment--I'm shocked the number of people who still show up in club clothes expecting to dance.

 

[GothMickey]

ie DVC bringing in more repeat business to WDW thereby increasing the revenue at the parks.

Which is pretty much what I stated :animwink:

 

[Master Yoda]

Which is pretty much what I stated :animwink:

I have been skimming. This thread is way to involved for my taste.

 

[GothMickey]

WDW1974, I got a question. Are you an insider, employee, dedicated fan, relative to an insider? Your posts are very well thought out. When you present your argument, it is hard to argue against you cause of the information you present to back yourself up. You seem to know what you are talking about, with a high degree of confidence.

 

[jt04]

Interesting. Sometime around the last month of PI, I heard a similar rumor about a "mini PI" going in near AK, possibly with the Adventurers Club relocationg there. I'd since kind of dismissed this as a misunderstanding of Flamingo Crossing (unlikely, given the source was in a position to know better) or something connected to the proposed "Night Kingdom," but this sounds much more like what was described. Now I'm curious to see how far each of the four blue sky plans went.



I can understand the logic behind this, but again, what I've heard is that the 3rd party tenants who've branded themselves as being "on PI" didn't want to lose that name. It's not just that WDW hasn't done anything (which wouldn't surprise me)--they actively changed out the banners on the light poles, first for Halloween, then for Christmas. Throw in the return of "PI Live" radio (noticably not "Downtown Disney Live") and it just seems they are hesitant to lose the branding of the area. If anything, it causes guest confusion and disappointment--I'm shocked the number of people who still show up in club clothes expecting to dance.

If it is true that the current tenants of the old PI are concerned about a name change, and I have serious doubts about that, then they are being short sighted.

Just to define some terms. WDW74 is right in that DTD will not have a "lands" concept in the future. If there is still guest confusion, as you say, then forgoing the old "lands" will go along way in curing the problem.

Now many people have stated that because many of the establishments Disney is looking at will serve alcohol, then they can't be considered "family friendly". This is a very narrow way of looking at it. It is a long way from having a quiet lounge or specialty bar that serves quality spirits in an adult atmosphere from what PI was. Truly an apples to oranges comparison.

Again, Disney wants out of the "dance party", "rave" atmosphere at DTD that families did not find inviting. I am not saying it, Disney has said it. So a family can enjoy dinner at Raglin Road and they do. Some may not prefer to go into a "bar" and they will go to Rain Forest or the new Dino restaurant. The point is they would never have gone to Mannequins or the Comedy Warehouse etc. and so those were lost dollars and customers.

And if I took one of those supposed "skewed" surveys you better believe I would have said the new DTD model is 100% better than the old, tired stale and very limited 1980's and 90's version. Just my 2 cents.

 

[NMBC1993]

And if I took one of those supposed "skewed" surveys you better believe I would have said the new DTD model is 100% better than the old, tired stale and very limited 1980's and 90's version. Just my 2 cents. Today 14:14

The new dtd model? What 1 new resterant, a t-shirt store tucked away next to the bus stop, a balloon, and 7 building sitting there empty...yeah it sure is a great new look

 

[jt04]

The new dtd model? What 1 new resterant, a t-shirt store tucked away next to the bus stop, a baloon, and 7 building sitting there empty...yeah it sure is a great new look

Those buildings are not all empty.........yet. Some of those soon to be empty buildings or all of them could see the wrecking ball. It's obviously a work in progress.

It will take time, and it has always been presented as a long term project.

 

[GothMickey]

The new dtd model? What 1 new resterant, a t-shirt store tucked away next to the bus stop, a balloon, and 7 building sitting there empty...yeah it sure is a great new look

You do realize that sometimes things take time to develop right? I am sure Disney management didn't sit in a board room saying HEY I GOT AN IDEA FOR PLEASURE ISLAND, LET'S BUILD A BALLOON, TEE SHIRT STORE, AND 7 EMPTY BUILDINGS THAT WILL NOT GENERATE A DIME. That is how you mke it sound.

I am sure Disney was caught by surprise by the lack of 3rd parties lining up to open restaurants. But, to actually believe the new model consists of leaving buildings empty is as short sighted as Disney World management is looking.

 

[NMBC1993]

When I say empty I mean there is no one in them. As other people posted, they are begging 3rd party companies to come and fill the land. It just aggravates me that they have no plan for those building so they just let them sit there and rot while they could be making money off of the diehard fans of those clubs until they actually have a plan. But no they are sitting there in their VIP lounges with their tails between their legs because they can't deal with the fact that they made a mistake. I hope the clubs do open back up and when they do, opening night will be a roast of Kevin Lansberry and the others who wanted "family friendly atmosphere."

 

[GothMickey]

When I say empty I mean there is no one in them. As other people posted, they are begging 3rd party companies to come and fill the land. It just aggravates me that they have no plan for those building so they just let them sit there and rot while they could be making money off of the diehard fans of those clubs until they actually have a plan. But no they are sitting there in their VIP lounges with their tails between their legs because they can't deal with the fact that they made a mistake. I hope the clubs do open back up and when they do, opening night will be a roast of Kevin Lansberry and the others who wanted "family friendly atmosphere."

Well, we shall see. All I know is, I am not happy with some of the decisions made, but, the decision to close the clubs in PI does not really bother or affect me.

 

[jakeman]

When I say empty I mean there is no one in them. As other people posted, they are begging 3rd party companies to come and fill the land. It just aggravates me that they have no plan for those building so they just let them sit there and rot while they could be making money off of the diehard fans of those clubs until they actually have a plan. But no they are sitting there in their VIP lounges with their tails between their legs because they can't deal with the fact that they made a mistake. I hope the clubs do open back up and when they do, opening night will be a roast of Kevin Lansberry and the others who wanted "family friendly atmosphere."

Yes, but there may be logistical issues that prevent that from happening. If it would take 6 months to retrain the staff and performers and get the clubs ready to open, who know who would have signed up in that time.

I don't think there was any proof ever presented either way that the clubs were making money.

While I can appreciate your passion, it seems to be obscuring some logical issues that may arise.

 

[NMBC1993]

Yeah I know that it's never going to happen, and they couldn't even do that if they tried....but I can dream....

 

[jt04]

When I say empty I mean there is no one in them. As other people posted, they are begging 3rd party companies to come and fill the land. It just aggravates me that they have no plan for those building so they just let them sit there and rot while they could be making money off of the diehard fans of those clubs until they actually have a plan. But no they are sitting there in their VIP lounges with their tails between their legs because they can't deal with the fact that they made a mistake. I hope the clubs do open back up and when they do, opening night will be a roast of Kevin Lansberry and the others who wanted "family friendly atmosphere."

I know of a few that can't open back up. They are already gutted.

And the decision to get out of the "club" business was not likely a low level decision. Just a hunch and just my 2 cents.

By the way, I'm convinced there actually is a plan for the island formerly known as PI. And the coolest part of this whole thing is going to be sitting back and watching it evolve. So much fun!

 

[Club Cooloholic]

If Disney is unable to find anyone to invest into the the area, they simply will have to do something with it, on their own. And it would make the most sense to reopen at least some of the clubs. Even if they have been gutted, they have the original plans. If they were to reimagine everything again, that would cost a lot more money, and time. So my guess is they might reopen at least some of them.
This of course won't happen if they can get 3rd parties involved, but considering most companies are cutting back, I think this is really bad timing on Disney's part.
If it remains in it's current state, you will see the stores and other companies there start to look to move out, or at least demand lower rents, I mean who wants to be around a big empty area?
Another factor will be, how effected is Disney going to be if Adults choose to go to Universal and spend their bucks at Citywalk?

 

[jt04]

If Disney is unable to find anyone to invest into the the area, they simply will have to do something with it, on their own. And it would make the most sense to reopen at least some of the clubs. Even if they have been gutted, they have the original plans. If they were to reimagine everything again, that would cost a lot more money, and time. So my guess is they might reopen at least some of them.
This of course won't happen if they can get 3rd parties involved, but considering most companies are cutting back, I think this is really bad timing on Disney's part.
If it remains in it's current state, you will see the stores and other companies there start to look to move out, or at least demand lower rents, I mean who wants to be around a big empty area?
Another factor will be, how effected is Disney going to be if Adults choose to go to Universal and spend their bucks at Citywalk?

Disney has already stated they are getting out of the "club" business at DTD. As for singles going to CW, I think Disney's attitude is, "Have a Great Time", and "when you do have kids someday, bring 'em to the T-Rex and Disney Quest"

 

[Club Cooloholic]

Disney has already stated they are getting out of the "club" business at DTD. As for singles going to CW. I think Disney's attitude is, "Have a Great Time"! "And when you do have kids someday, bring 'em to the T-Rex and Disney Quest"

Like I said, we will see if it cuts into their profits. Did you ever actually go to PI? There were a lot of adults there who had kids. They would just take turns with another couple they might have been traveling with to baby sit, or hire a baby sitter, or use one of the kids clubs.

You still haven't adressed what they would do with all that empty space if nobody comes to fill it? They will save money and bring back something familar.

Lets just put it this way. Right now what has appeared a more sucessful venture...Citywalk or Downtown Disney/PI/Marketplace?