Pleasure Island Changes

[Disneyson 1]

Really?!? Almost fired? That's pretty bad for a single term...

 

[CaptainMichael]

Ummm...not according to some WDI folks I talked to.
I asked directly "What are they going to do with PI now that the plans they had fell through".

The answer, from two different imagineers (cut and pasted here):
Imagineer 1 - "Good question. Even they don't know what to do now."
Imagineer 2 - "Please. You assume that they knew what they were doing in the first place. The only option, an one that they are trying to avoid to save face, is to reopen at least some of the clubs. They might actually do it, but they won't like it"

So, if by "Plan B" you mean backtracking and maybe re-opening a club or two....then yeah. Otherwise, nope.

I like the way Imagineer 2 thinks:lol:

 

[jt04]

No ... not really.

And since so many have picked up on my use of it ... since it even almost got an exec fired at TDO for bringing it up at a meeting ... since it has become known and talked about in Glendale and Burbank ...
I understand the term has both power and legs and will continue to use it. I may well use it on a book I am thinking about writing as well ... so feel free to like it, dislike it or not give a damn because it ain't going anywhere.



WDW is constantly lowering the bar and making its product more humdrum ... more homogenized (Disney Parks anyone?) ... more average ... again, that is WalMart.

And, no, WDW wasn't always this way ... but you know that.

I see your point to some degree and have since you have been making it for the past 2 months. But the problem is nowhere near as severe as you paint it. Perspective is your friend.

 

[jt04]

Ummm...not according to some WDI folks I talked to.
I asked directly "What are they going to do with PI now that the plans they had fell through".

The answer, from two different imagineers (cut and pasted here):
Imagineer 1 - "Good question. Even they don't know what to do now."
Imagineer 2 - "Please. You assume that they knew what they were doing in the first place. The only option, and one that they are trying to avoid to save face, is to reopen at least some of the clubs. They might actually do it, but they won't like it"

So, if by "Plan B" you mean backtracking and maybe re-opening a club or two....then yeah. Otherwise, nope.

Perhaps not everyone over there is as "in the know" as they think. I'm just saying, "perhaps".

 

[EpcotServo]

WDW is constantly lowering the bar and making its product more humdrum ... more homogenized (Disney Parks anyone?) ... more average ... again, that is WalMart.

And, no, WDW wasn't always this way ... but you know that.

Even when WDW was better, I'd still say that's always been the recipe if you compare it do Disneyland and the other parks around the world.

Bigger > Better

Pretty much always like that. Sure it swings a little, I'm just saying it's a trend that isn't new and has no end for anybody.

I'm agreeing with you far more than others, take it easy.

:lol:

Though now I need to Verb something...

"Chickfilaing"?

:drevil:

 

[WDW1974]

I think politics are not welcome on these boards. You contadicted yourself here and with your HD comment earlier.

You say companies have plans for "failure" and then in the next paragraph say that Disney has no "plan b". So might I submit, there is a "plan b" for Disney going it alone reimagining PI, you are a mountain of contradictions, and finally, you are haughty to a fault.

No, that was called sarcasm ... I guess I should have used a ridiculous kiddie smiley so you'd get it.

While HD very likely has their next wave of store closures (and even the next) planned, Disney has NO plans for PI beyond signing third parties ... there was never a 'what if the economy collapses like it's 1929 and no one wants to open on our hallowed ground?'

Disney has no Plan B at all. You'll see greenery thrown around, banners hung and a few merchandise carts added FOR YEARS ... if things don't improve because there is nothing else in the works.

Oh, and I think you meant to use the word 'hottie' when describing me ...

Still waiting for you to pull out your oversold "pixie dust" joke for anyone who dares to disagree with you.

And I'm still waiting to see you add something substanitive to one thread on this site.

 

[jakeman]

Really?!? Almost fired? That's pretty bad for a single term...

Yeah, I would fire one of my subordinates for using it also, but because it is a junk term with no real meaning.

 

[WDW1974]

Even when WDW was better, I'd still say that's always been the recipe if you compare it do Disneyland and the other parks around the world.

Bigger > Better

Pretty much always like that. Sure it swings a little, I'm just saying it's a trend that isn't new and has no end for anybody.

WDW has always been bigger by virtue of its size. But quality was always a very important part of the equation. The past decade WDW has undergone WalMarting where size was supposed to make up for all the 'decline by degrees' to use Kevin Yee's term across property.

I always believe DL has been a superior product to the MK ... but at least 15 years ago you got the idea that the people in charge at WDW gave a damn about trying to be that good.

Now? You damn well know they don't.

 

[jt04]

No, that was called sarcasm ... I guess I should have used a ridiculous kiddie smiley so you'd get it.

While HD very likely has their next wave of store closures (and even the next) planned, Disney has NO plans for PI beyond signing third parties ... there was never a 'what if the economy collapses like it's 1929 and no one wants to open on our hallowed ground?'

Disney has no Plan B at all. You'll see greenery thrown around, banners hung and a few merchandise carts added FOR YEARS ... if things don't improve because there is nothing else in the works.

Oh, and I think you meant to use the word 'hottie' when describing me ...



And I'm still waiting to see you add something substanitive to one thread on this site.

Hmmm, something substantive? I'll make you a deal, since you are new here, comparatively, name one thing you have brought to these boards of substance. Cause I sure as heck can't think of a single one and I am not just saying that. Opinions don't count in this case, by the way.

 

[WDW1974]

Quote:
Really?!? Almost fired? That's pretty bad for a single term...

Yeah, I would fire one of my subordinates for using it also, but because it is a junk term with no real meaning.

Good for you, jake.

But clearly the Disney execs and managers and Imagineers that so many here seem to care so much for apparently don't agree.

They find it to be quite 'significant' and potentially 'damaging' to the brand.

I agree. They need to stop ruining their product.

 

[jakeman]

I agree. They need to stop ruining their product.

I would want facts and numbers. Not a word that has a hazy meaning of "generally bad".

I don't think they are ruining the product. I see things I don't care for and I communicate them through the proper channels. I also see many, many things that I still enjoy. For me, the positives still outweight the negatives, which is why they still get my money.

 

[jt04]

I would want facts and numbers. Not a word that has a hazy meaning of "generally bad".

I don't think they are ruining the product. I see things I don't care for and I communicate them through the proper channels. I also see many, many things that I still enjoy. For me, the positives still outweight the negatives, which is why they still get my money.

Prepare to be accused of being high on pixie dust.

 

[unkadug]

They haven't even really begun to roll out the new ideas. It will be a multi-year project.

That's because they don't have any new ideas. It was all a knee jerk reaction to some bad prior decisions.

 

[jt04]

That's because they don't have any new ideas. It was all a knee jerk reaction to some bad prior decisions.

I know for a fact that is not true.

 

[WDW1974]

I would want facts and numbers. Not a word that has a hazy meaning of "generally bad".

Facts?

The facts are Disney closed PI with the intent of opening major third party dining and drinking establishments. Fact: Disney hasn't signed a single tenant since announcing the 'rethinking of PI'.

Hypothesis that is 99.9% guaranteed fact: Disney isn't happy at all that their plan has gone awry and that they now have an empty, shuttered area that could become another River Country eyesore right in the heart of their top retail zone.

Opinion: WDW is a lesser product with a closed empty PI and therefore offers less value -- and magic -- to guests

I don't think they are ruining the product.

I think they are. I know they're not trying to improve it.

I see things I don't care for and I communicate them through the proper channels. I also see many, many things that I still enjoy. For me, the positives still outweight the negatives, which is why they still get my money.

Ditto for me on all of the above.

 

[unkadug]

That's because they don't have any new ideas. It was all a knee jerk reaction to some bad prior decisions.

I know for a fact that is not true.

Which part? The ideas of the knee jerk reaction?

 

[WDW1974]

That's because they don't have any new ideas. It was all a knee jerk reaction to some bad prior decisions.

That's pretty much the case.

Now ... they have an empty mess on their hands. And who knows when or if they'll be able to go ahead with their plans.

And if they don't ... then what?

 

[jakeman]

Facts?

The facts are Disney closed PI with the intent of opening major third party dining and drinking establishments. Fact: Disney hasn't signed a single tenant since announcing the 'rethinking of PI'.

Yes, but what is the reason for that?

The economy? Mismanagement? A little of both? What I am saying is that we can't be sure what the reason is, therefore any analysis at this point is bunk.

 

[jt04]

That's pretty much the case.

Now ... they have an empty mess on their hands. And who knows when or if they'll be able to go ahead with their plans.

And if they don't ... then what?

Perhaps they will sell WDW to walmart and then what?

 

[Lee]

That's because they don't have any new ideas. It was all a knee jerk reaction to some bad prior decisions.

Exactly.
They cooked up a nice, flashy power-point presentation, backed it up with faulty, skewed surveys* and said "See...we save money and this is what guests want!" Done.
Nevermind the fact that no third parties had "signed on the line which is dotted", at the time PI closed. They were just sure they would line up in droves.
Wrong.




*Per information I have received, the surveys were worded in such a way as to lead to the desired conclusion.
For example, something like:
Survey - "Would you like more shopping and dining options a Downtown Disney?"
Guest - "Well, sure."

None of the surveys said anything like:
Survey - "Would you like us to close some of the existing locations, such as Adv Club, or Comedy Warehouse to make room for more shopping and dining?"

There was no trend in guest respnses that indicated that they would favor closing existing locations. They believed the new stuff would be in addition to what was already there.

Jerks.