Patty Jenkins' 'Rogue Squadron' coming December 2023

[erasure fan1]

But would it surprise you if I said I DON’T blame kennedy all that much? I think she may have been miscast…but still has valuable Hollywood skills for the job.

It wouldn't surprise me at all. I have said from the start, if she was in charge of the business side of Lucasfilm, I would fully support it. She has an extremely impressive resume from a logistics standpoint. What she doesn't have, is a creative bone in her body. So yes, she was miscast. I have to blame her because she is in charge. As a leader you should know your strengths and weaknesses. She could have put a creative lead in place knowing she lacked the knowledge of star wars. But she continued to make the same mistakes over and over. I put a fair share of blame on Iger as well. It was him who only saw the dollar signs and rushed things into production causing a landslide of poor decisions.

 

[Disney Irish]

Yet none of those movies ever have any ongoing legacy or fandom.

That is not true. There is even a term for it "cult film", and plenty of cult films go on to have long legacies and fandoms.

The newer generations I knew who liked TLJ didn't even bother seeing ROS and don't give a crap about Star Wars now.

That is just your personal experience. Counterpoint, I know plenty of the newer generation that liked the entire ST, and ended up liking all of Star Wars because of it.

 

[Sirwalterraleigh]

It wouldn't surprise me at all. I have said from the start, if she was in charge of the business side of Lucasfilm, I would fully support it. She has an extremely impressive resume from a logistics standpoint. What she doesn't have, is a creative bone in her body. So yes, she was miscast. I have to blame her because she is in charge. As a leader you should know your strengths and weaknesses. She could have put a creative lead in place knowing she lacked the knowledge of star wars. But she continued to make the same mistakes over and over. I put a fair share of blame on Iger as well. It was him who only saw the dollar signs and rushed things into production causing a landslide of poor decisions.

She came in with a $4,000,000,000 purchase…and Disney is an oligarchy.
She never really was “in charge”

 

[Sirwalterraleigh]

That is not true. There is even a term for it "cult film", and plenty of cult films go on to have long legacies and fandoms.

So Star Wars is gunning for “cult status” now?
Maybe Rey Can sing the Timewarp in the next one??

Simple question here: were they good movies? General, non-Disney sycophant assessment.
Good? And I’m not asking if “some people” liked them.

Prequels were bad movies…some people liked them. But still diminished the potential of the franchise and were bad movies. Long ridiculed.

Good? Yes or no?

 

[Disney Irish]

Fair enough.

So you answered the question: somebody likes it…therefore it is successful by default?

I bet the accountants disagree…so my opinion is “minor”

That is not what you asked, and this is why I didn't want to engage with you. You don't want to have a proper good faith discussion, you just want to lure someone into a "gotcha" point.

 

[Disney Irish]

So Star Wars is gunning for “cult status” now?
Maybe Rey Can sing the Timewarp in the next one??

Simple question here: were they good movies? General, non-Disney sycophant assessment.
Good? And I’m not asking if “some people” liked them.

Prequels were bad movies…some people liked them. But still diminished the potential of the franchise and were bad movies. Long ridiculed.

Good? Yes or no?

More things to try and lure into a "gotcha" point.

Sorry not playing any more.

If you ever really want to have a real good faith proper discussion with no "gotchas" I'm up for it. But until then I'm done.

 

[Disney Irish]

It is a lot of the same arguments for sure. There's only so many ways we can blame Kennedy. Personally I'm glad if you and others loved the sequels. I really wish I did. But my question would be this. If they were overwhelmingly loved, why has Disney all but abandoned continuing the sequels story theatricality? That was the plan. Pass the torch to these new characters for 10, 11 and 12. And now we have zero theatrical star wars to look forward to. If as many people were happy with how Disney handled star wars as I'm told they are. Why aren't we seeing he next instalment like we should be?

First I never said I "loved" the ST. I have always said they had there issues but that I liked them overall.

Second I never said they were "overwhelmingly" loved. All I said was just because some movie(s) are deemed "bad" by a particular group doesn't mean they are not likable overall, especially by newer generations.

Third business decisions are made for many reasons, including (as someone pointed out multiple times in a recent discussion) not being profitable enough. This is part of that same argument that goes round and round, and where I end.

 

[Sirwalterraleigh]

More things to try and lure into a "gotcha" point.

Sorry not playing any more.

If you ever really want to have a real good faith proper discussion with no "gotchas" I'm up for it. But until then I'm done.

There’s no “gotcha”

It’s a straight, simple question. Direct.

Were they good movies? Total effort.

 

[GimpYancIent]

So Star Wars is gunning for “cult status” now?
Maybe Rey Can sing the Timewarp in the next one??

Simple question here: were they good movies? General, non-Disney sycophant assessment.
Good? And I’m not asking if “some people” liked them.

Prequels were bad movies…some people liked them. But still diminished the potential of the franchise and were bad movies. Long ridiculed.

Good? Yes or no?

Star Wars is not gunning for "cult status" the franchise has achieved "cult status". Good or Bad is now irrelevant.

 

[Sirwalterraleigh]

Star Wars is not gunning for "cult status" the franchise has achieved "cult status". Good or Bad is now irrelevant.

Quite the opposite…it’s a cultural icon that created the most successful licensed product brand (lb for lb) in history…

Bad movies diminish it/leave money on the table

…and Disney knows that.

Look at the clues…
Think boba fetts and yodas and cgi mark Hamills from the Atari age just “randomly” showed up after?

 

[GimpYancIent]

Quite the opposite…it’s a cultural icon that created the most successful licensed product brand (lb for lb) in history…

Bad movies diminish it/leave money on the table

…and Disney knows that.

Look at the clues…
Think boba fetts and yodas and cgi mark Hamills from the Atari age just “randomly” showed up after?

True about the money being left on the table and how the franchise has been mismanaged in efforts to exploit it, but despite all attempts to damage it Star Wars has a dedicated following and there is enthusiasm toward / for more. Good or Bad has, in a way, been bypassed.

 

[Sirwalterraleigh]

True about the money being left on the table and how the franchise has been mismanaged in efforts to exploit it, but despite all attempts to damage it Star Wars has a dedicated following and there is enthusiasm toward / for more. Good or Bad has, in a way, been bypassed.

Don’t get me wrong…I’m not saying it’s dead.

Far from it…it will make bucks for minimum 20 more years.
But they have lost huge sums of easy money on mistakes based in clear stupidity

 

[erasure fan1]

First I never said I "loved" the ST. I have always said they had there issues but that I liked them overall.

Second I never said they were "overwhelmingly" loved. All I said was just because some movie(s) are deemed "bad" by a particular group doesn't mean they are not likable overall, especially by newer generations.

Third business decisions are made for many reasons, including (as someone pointed out multiple times in a recent discussion) not being profitable enough. This is part of that same argument that goes round and round, and where I end.

I guess I don't get the defense of everything then. We all know that there are people who enjoyed the movies. Heck, I like transformers but I know, quality cinema they are not. If Disney had doubled down on the sequels, I could see the argument. But it seems they've abandoned ship. You don't drop an entire cinematic plan because of some fans not agreeing with what you've done. Especially Kennedy and Lucasfilm. The people who have gone out of their way to troll the fans and make it clear that we are not the priority. So if they don't care about us, and they've come full stop on their original sequel plans, it would seem even they know they made a wrong turn in Albuquerque.

 

[Sirwalterraleigh]

I guess I don't get the defense of everything then. We all know that there are people who enjoyed the movies. Heck, I like transformers but I know, quality cinema they are not. If Disney had doubled down on the sequels, I could see the argument. But it seems they've abandoned ship. You don't drop an entire cinematic plan because of some fans not agreeing with what you've done. Especially Kennedy and Lucasfilm. The people who have gone out of their way to troll the fans and make it clear that we are not the priority. So if they don't care about us, and they've come full stop on their original sequel plans, it would seem even they know they made a wrong turn in Albuquerque.

I think Their “analysts” picked a path that they thought would yield the most longterm…as business people tend to do…

But they saw what happened, and backed away/put it on ice immediately.

Now they’ll watch.

See the reason this is an “argument” is 109% manufactured by the dissenting very small group of voices.

It isn’t an opinion survey. Facts are determined by decisions, results and responses.

Elementary, Dear Watson

 

[Disney Irish]

There’s no “gotcha”

It’s a straight, simple question. Direct.

Were they good movies? Total effort.

If they really were straight simple direct questions then you wouldn't try to twist words around to "win" with a "gotcha". Sorry not going to do it.

Also I've already answered these questions, multiple times, from you over the years, the answers don't change. So if you want the answers go back to any of the hundreds of times we've had this discussion previously.

 

[Disney Irish]

I guess I don't get the defense of everything then. We all know that there are people who enjoyed the movies. Heck, I like transformers but I know, quality cinema they are not.

Ah maybe this is the problem, the expectation for the ST was maybe too high. Instead of expecting just popcorn films, which is what I've always seen them as, a large portion of fans were expecting "quality cinema" as you put it. To me Star Wars has ALWAYS been flawed, they've ALWAYS been popcorn films that were like the old Saturday afternoon serials that George was paying homage to like Buck Rogers and Flash Gordon. And so I've always liked them for what they were, not holding them up on some pedestal as the pinnacle of cinema.

If Disney had doubled down on the sequels, I could see the argument. But it seems they've abandoned ship. You don't drop an entire cinematic plan because of some fans not agreeing with what you've done. Especially Kennedy and Lucasfilm. The people who have gone out of their way to troll the fans and make it clear that we are not the priority. So if they don't care about us, and they've come full stop on their original sequel plans, it would seem even they know they made a wrong turn in Albuquerque.

If I'm being honest if I was in Disney's position I would have probably done the same thing. I would have been like, ok fine then I'll take my toys and go home and just wait until you've had a chance to calm down. And then after a number of years I would have put out a new set of movies that have nothing to do with anything Skywalker related and watch the money roll in. Which appears to be exactly what Disney is doing. Just waiting, putting out some D+ series to tide fans over until the overall mood improves and then release some new movies later.

 

[erasure fan1]

a large portion of fans were expecting "quality cinema" as you put it. To me Star Wars has ALWAYS been flawed, they've ALWAYS been popcorn films that were like the old Saturday afternoon serials that George was paying homage to like Buck Rogers and Flash Gordon.

It's never been an issue that the sequels weren't the Shawshank redemption. It was more about, at least for me, how they treated the legacy. You only need to watch something like cobra kai to see how legacy characters should be treated. The other complaint was they had zero narrative direction.

If I'm being honest if I was in Disney's position I would have probably done the same thing. I would have been like, ok fine then I'll take my toys and go home and just wait until you've had a chance to calm down.

Kennedy said that this star wars wasn't for us, the old fan. That's why they went the direction they did so they could move on from the OT. Something had to change though. Was it we are more important than they thought because the fans they were courting didn't care as much as they thought? The argument has been the sequels were fine and Disney was happy with them as they were profitable. But the reality of it is they dropped it. So they can't think as highly of it as I'm told.

 

[Disney Irish]

It's never been an issue that the sequels weren't the Shawshank redemption. It was more about, at least for me, how they treated the legacy.

Personally, while a great film, I never thought Shawshank was the pinnacle of cinema either. But to me that is what is great about Hollywood, they put out all sorts of content for all sort of audiences. There isn't a single type of film or a single type of story being told. There is literally something for everyone.

As for treating the "legacy", that means many things to many people. And that is sort of the problem in general about the fandom, there is no one single opinion or answer on what that means. Its all personal to every single fan. What matters to one is not necessarily what matters to another. And so its hard for any creator to live up to the expectation of "legacy".

Even if they would have just went to a different time period you'd have a section of the fandom yelling "why didn't they just continue with the Skywalkers". You can never please everyone.

Kennedy said that this star wars wasn't for us, the old fan. That's why they went the direction they did so they could move on from the OT. Something had to change though.

Well I probably wouldn't have put it that way, but I agree with her sentiment. I would have said something like we're trying to move Star Wars in general forward to bring it to the next generation of fans. The OT and PT will always be there, and so we're trying to use the ST to bridge the OT and PT to the future as we want to move beyond the Skywalker family and tell new stories in this universe.

 

[erasure fan1]

As for treating the "legacy", that means many things to many people. And that is sort of the problem in general about the fandom, there is no one single opinion or answer on what that means. Its all personal to every single fan. What matters to one is not necessarily what matters to another.

All most of the OT fans wanted, was one last adventure with their heros.

Well I probably wouldn't have put it that way, but I agree with her sentiment. I would have said something like we're trying to move Star Wars in general forward to bring it to the next generation of fans. The OT and PT will always be there, and so we're trying to use the ST to bridge the OT and PT to the future as we want to move beyond the Skywalker family and tell new stories in this universe.

It was the constant antagonizing of the fans that caused a lot of backlash. I think most fans wanted to move on. Like I said above, we just wanted our heros to have that last adventure. Instead hey were used to prop up the new crew. Personally I think we all want the same thing in the end. New star wars, with new adventures, that embody the spirit of the franchise. Where we disagree I think, is the capability of Disney and Lucasfilm to accomplish it. I just don't think Kennedy is capable of getting it done.

 

[Disney Irish]

All most of the OT fans wanted, was one last adventure with their heros.

Personally I always thought it was 30 years too late for that. That is the story George should have told instead of doing the PT. And at least 1/3 of the actors playing those heros wanted no part of that story anyways, not really Disney's fault on that one. For that character we're lucky we got what we got.

It was the constant antagonizing of the fans that caused a lot of backlash. I think most fans wanted to move on.

Part of that I blame the messaging, the other part of that I blame the internet as "constant" is a bit overblown here. If it had been prior to the internet it would have been a comment or two to some no name industry reporter that wouldn't have been retweeted a gazillion times to make it seem like its "constant".

Personally I think we all want the same thing in the end. New star wars, with new adventures, that embody the spirit of the franchise. Where we disagree I think, is the capability of Disney and Lucasfilm to accomplish it. I just don't think Kennedy is capable of getting it done.

I think Disney/LFL is plenty capable of it, Kennedy aside. The real question is their desire to do it. Right now I don't think there is any desire until there is some distance. We're still only a little less than 3 years removed from RoS, I know it seems like longer but its really only been 3 years.