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One Day-One Park ticket $71!!!
- Thread starter aroyston
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CJR
Well-Known Member
True, but why don't they just raise hotel prices if that were the case. If gas prices were to sink back down to a dollar, would Disney lower the prices accordingly? No. My point is that the buses should have no effect on the ticket price to get into the parks since those buying a one day ticket don't typically use a bus to get to the park. I see what you mean, but I just don't want to ignore the fact that expenses aren't what's on Disney's mind here.
ClemsonTigger
Naturally Grumpy
I wish I could understand your "foolproof economics"
And I will qualify this by stating upfront that I am one of those greedy self-centered shareholders (not that I remember Bob or Michael checking with me to see if decisions were in my best interest)
Disney stock is for the entire corporation, parks, movies, ABC, ESPN and others. The big hit as stated in your quoted article is due mostly to success in the movies sector..and it is a one time hit after years of poor performance. The parks are a different cost center, and while they are doing well, they are not causing the stock to rise.
Prices have been raised because as brich so clearly stated....they can!
Good economics is pricing your (premium) product appropriately at all times...not when you're strapped for cash.
You are also economically mistaken in your conclusion that by alienating the struggling middle class (where you place yourself) that can manage one trip every 2-5 years that Disney parks will fold.
Sorry, but DVC memberships (of which I am not one) continue to take off. This is another Greedy Disney scheme where you give your money to them up front and are trapped into paying them more....
. These people generally make yearly trips or multiple trips per year and spend money. This is why Disney is building DVC sites as quickly as they can, to keep up with demand. The people that do pay for much of Disney parks operating budget visit the parks annually or more frequently, including AP Florida residents. If anything these folks providing a steady income stream are "subsidizing" your vacation.Before there is more discussion on "diminished returns", you need to look at two separate curves....supply and demand. As long as supply lags behind demand, you can charge more to align the two. ONLY when supply exceeds demand and operating costs continue to rise can you have diminished returns. If anything, bjlc57, Disney CAN raise their prices more and still be on the positive side.
There was a similar discussion a while back about the cost of a Disney Cruise (also a separate cost center). Disney cruises cost (my estimate) around 20% more than other cruises. You may say "that's not fair", but the cruises remain filled. If capacity drops, then you would see a fare reduction.
In the meantime, people are more than happy to pay the premium for a Diney cruise experience.
Those are some of the real world economics, sorry they don't match with yours.
kachow
Member
Plus, you can't just increase prices when you're "hurting." Disney parks were relatively "hurting" after 9/11, and raising prices only would have made it worse. You price things as high as you can get away with, so that it doesn't sting as much when you have to lower them for whatever reason.
ClemsonTigger
Naturally Grumpy
Interesting point, but hotels are handled separately from the parks and have more competition in their market. People have a much greater choice in locations to stay off property, so Disney has to stay competitive with that. While Disney hasn't raised the price of it's hotel properties, they have greatly reduced the reductions and specials that had been a regular occurrance the last few years. In effect, this is providing a much greater return from the hotels as well. When I see prices for All Star at $65 however...I wonder where you can expect a better price.
You are also right that gas increases are really affecting many people, as are increases to food and local taxes. I live in NJ which has the highest property taxes in the nation (and highest overall tax burden). So I feel that hit daily.
But Disney also is affected by increase fuel, food and labor costs. While not directly impacting Disney, there is another thread that discusses increased taxes imposed by the counties that Disney resides on. It is a vicious cycle.
NX2I85
Active Member
I generally lurk here, but thought I'd stick my two cents into the conversation.
1) WDW should be increasing their prices. They are thriving in a volatile marketplace. AS 9/11 showed, events beyond their control can have a great deal to do with their bottom line. I am not surprised that they are milking the cash cow now so that they can "survive" when (and if) crisis comes.
2) WDW is a valued product. By that I mean I am willing to pay extra for it. Our annual income is 64K a year. We are debt free, manage to save a little, and cut a few corners so that we can afford to pay cash for our WDW vacations. For example, I am willing to eat the store-brand cheese crackers that sell for $1 a box instead of Cheez-its that sell for $2.50. I could not care less about what store my clothes come from -Wal Mart and JC Penney work just fine for me. Those are choices I/we have made. However I will NOT compromise on the brand of theme parks I visit. I would not consider paying $50 to go to Six Flags or a Paramount park... that seems silly to me and my family of four. But we can always see a way to spend the money to go to WDW.
3) I don't know what the "breaking point" is for my family, but I do know that we will never ever go into debt to go to WDW. Being debt free is too relaxing:wave: . I wouldn't trade that even for WDW. The lone exception to this is the possibility that we buy into DVC. I would consider doing so as a hedge against future increases. I might add that I have a mountains of research to do before making such a decision.
4) One thing for sure, WDW prices WILL fluctuate back down (in "real" dollars). That's just part of the economic cycle. If I WERE a stockholder in Disney I would be ticked off if they ran their company in such a way as to feed ideals and not the bottom line. Like it or not, people, this is a capitalist economy. Ideals are for non-profits and the such. Any company that convinces you it exists for anything other than the bottom line is simply doing good PR work.
1) WDW should be increasing their prices. They are thriving in a volatile marketplace. AS 9/11 showed, events beyond their control can have a great deal to do with their bottom line. I am not surprised that they are milking the cash cow now so that they can "survive" when (and if) crisis comes.
2) WDW is a valued product. By that I mean I am willing to pay extra for it. Our annual income is 64K a year. We are debt free, manage to save a little, and cut a few corners so that we can afford to pay cash for our WDW vacations. For example, I am willing to eat the store-brand cheese crackers that sell for $1 a box instead of Cheez-its that sell for $2.50. I could not care less about what store my clothes come from -Wal Mart and JC Penney work just fine for me. Those are choices I/we have made. However I will NOT compromise on the brand of theme parks I visit. I would not consider paying $50 to go to Six Flags or a Paramount park... that seems silly to me and my family of four. But we can always see a way to spend the money to go to WDW.
3) I don't know what the "breaking point" is for my family, but I do know that we will never ever go into debt to go to WDW. Being debt free is too relaxing:wave: . I wouldn't trade that even for WDW. The lone exception to this is the possibility that we buy into DVC. I would consider doing so as a hedge against future increases. I might add that I have a mountains of research to do before making such a decision.
4) One thing for sure, WDW prices WILL fluctuate back down (in "real" dollars). That's just part of the economic cycle. If I WERE a stockholder in Disney I would be ticked off if they ran their company in such a way as to feed ideals and not the bottom line. Like it or not, people, this is a capitalist economy. Ideals are for non-profits and the such. Any company that convinces you it exists for anything other than the bottom line is simply doing good PR work.
tink81
New Member
I certainly don't mean to offend any of the posters here, but there were some statements that I personally took issue with and had to put my in $0.02
I went to college and worked hard and in turn got a good job upon graduation. I continue to work hard and enjoy wroking at my part time job to have a little spending cash. I am not angry at "our society" and I don't particualrly agree with the sentiment that no one should have to work a part time job. Everyone wants more money PERIOD and whether you wait for gradual salary increases, take on a part time job or switch employers in favor of a pay raise YOU ARE IN CONTROL OF YOUR MONEY. No one else.
Price increases are everywhere, my sophomore year of college the state schools in PA raised tuition over $500, to a lot of my friends that meant they couldn't come back next semester. THAT is a travesty, not a $4 or $10 dollar price hike in one day park tickets at Disney World.
Disney is a business, granted it is the business of providing magical vacations for the masses, but it is still a business. I beleive it was only 3 or 4 years ago that Disney began consistently raising their ticket prices (correct me if I am wrong). They made up the difference in sublte price raises in concessions.
Although I will be the first one to get upset if my BF and I decide we can't go to Disney next year, going to Disney is not a right. If the descrecionary income is not there next year, oh well, it is because we have other financial obligations have come up and WE can't afford to pay the price set forth by Disney (a business and not owned or operated by the Federal Govt) and still live comfortably. Price increases are designed to cover increases in cost rises and should never be so drastic that business is lost. I (personally) don't think the rise in cost for a one day park ticket is a deal-breaker. It's large enough that, yes, we take notice but I don't think anyone will be priced out of a Disney vacation because of it.
I went to college and worked hard and in turn got a good job upon graduation. I continue to work hard and enjoy wroking at my part time job to have a little spending cash. I am not angry at "our society" and I don't particualrly agree with the sentiment that no one should have to work a part time job. Everyone wants more money PERIOD and whether you wait for gradual salary increases, take on a part time job or switch employers in favor of a pay raise YOU ARE IN CONTROL OF YOUR MONEY. No one else.
Price increases are everywhere, my sophomore year of college the state schools in PA raised tuition over $500, to a lot of my friends that meant they couldn't come back next semester. THAT is a travesty, not a $4 or $10 dollar price hike in one day park tickets at Disney World.
Disney is a business, granted it is the business of providing magical vacations for the masses, but it is still a business. I beleive it was only 3 or 4 years ago that Disney began consistently raising their ticket prices (correct me if I am wrong). They made up the difference in sublte price raises in concessions.
Although I will be the first one to get upset if my BF and I decide we can't go to Disney next year, going to Disney is not a right. If the descrecionary income is not there next year, oh well, it is because we have other financial obligations have come up and WE can't afford to pay the price set forth by Disney (a business and not owned or operated by the Federal Govt) and still live comfortably. Price increases are designed to cover increases in cost rises and should never be so drastic that business is lost. I (personally) don't think the rise in cost for a one day park ticket is a deal-breaker. It's large enough that, yes, we take notice but I don't think anyone will be priced out of a Disney vacation because of it.
LudwigVonDrake
Well-Known Member
I realize this. HOWEVER, even with the price increase, the average breakdown of a 7 day MYW ticket is CHEAPER than the one day pass. That is what Disney wants you to do: Buy a MYW ticket for multiple days. They don't make nearly enough money off the one day visitor than the person who spends a week on their property buying food and souvenirs. This is all about taking in more money from the group they know they can get it from.
brich
New Member
You can only state it so simple and if they still don't get it. They never will... :wave:
CRO-Magnum
Active Member
To start I completely agree with you, but I have...
...three hypotheses on Disney pricing. First, in general, they price tickets high enough to prevent the parks from becoming teenage hangouts. As a father of four young children I stay away from Six Flags parks, for example, because of the language, rudeness, and lack of maturity shown by their primarily teenage crowds (nothing's changes since I worked at Six Flags Great America). Second in general, Disney nails the one-day park visitors because they are not the norm and not as valued a guest so sacking them with a premium does little to impact business.
Third, and more specific to our current economy, wages are rising and Disney's pay is not competitive in the Orlando market. The rise ticket price, if used to increase wages which I believe would result in higher quality staff if done right, is acceptable to me.
If the only point is to drive additional profits by squeezing out the extra cent or two then shame on Disney. But if we're willing to pay $3.00 + for a gallon of gas, how elastic is the price we'll pay for Disney?
I wonder if Disney will pull the "increasing costs of energy and transportation" argument to justify the increase.
...three hypotheses on Disney pricing. First, in general, they price tickets high enough to prevent the parks from becoming teenage hangouts. As a father of four young children I stay away from Six Flags parks, for example, because of the language, rudeness, and lack of maturity shown by their primarily teenage crowds (nothing's changes since I worked at Six Flags Great America). Second in general, Disney nails the one-day park visitors because they are not the norm and not as valued a guest so sacking them with a premium does little to impact business.
Third, and more specific to our current economy, wages are rising and Disney's pay is not competitive in the Orlando market. The rise ticket price, if used to increase wages which I believe would result in higher quality staff if done right, is acceptable to me.
If the only point is to drive additional profits by squeezing out the extra cent or two then shame on Disney. But if we're willing to pay $3.00 + for a gallon of gas, how elastic is the price we'll pay for Disney?
I wonder if Disney will pull the "increasing costs of energy and transportation" argument to justify the increase.
sbkline
Well-Known Member
Ya, I know. You're absolutely right. I was just splitting hairs. :wave:
That's why I was encouraging people to invest in a 10 day parkhopper with no expiration option. Once you factor in the price of the NE as well as the price of the parkhopper option, it still comes up to almost half the price of a one day admission. I realize that many people can't afford to fork out that much at once, but even if they put it on credit card and paid it off over a few months, it would save them a ton of money, as long as they had every intention of using those days.
CRO-Magnum
Active Member
I appreciate your $0.02 and believe I understand...
...where you're coming from. Disney started raising ticket prices in 1984 as part of the inbound Eisner/Wells era as part of a mandate from the Bass Brothers who owned 20% of Disney. Disney has every right to make a profit. Going to Disney parks is not a right and disposable income is the driving force. And the price increases will have little to no effect on whether or not guests arrive.
I believe the issue many of us longtime Disney fans have with their pricing policy is that once it reached a reasonable parity with value (not overpriced, not underpriced), it has since grossly outpaced inflation as I showed in a previous posting on another thread. I would agree to the increases if I was getting the same quality show, with the same quality cast members, in the same quality format as 15 years ago. In my opinion the park has been dramatically cheapened, the average cast member today wouldn't have made it through the initial screening when I was a cast member 15 yrs ago, and the format has changed from an entertainment experience to an outdoor mall.
I'll continue to go, and complain, until at some point it just won't be worth it to me anymore. I hope Disney makes the requisite changes before this happens because I'd rather our yearly visits stay part of our lives. Disney is in control of their own Destiny.
...where you're coming from. Disney started raising ticket prices in 1984 as part of the inbound Eisner/Wells era as part of a mandate from the Bass Brothers who owned 20% of Disney. Disney has every right to make a profit. Going to Disney parks is not a right and disposable income is the driving force. And the price increases will have little to no effect on whether or not guests arrive.
I believe the issue many of us longtime Disney fans have with their pricing policy is that once it reached a reasonable parity with value (not overpriced, not underpriced), it has since grossly outpaced inflation as I showed in a previous posting on another thread. I would agree to the increases if I was getting the same quality show, with the same quality cast members, in the same quality format as 15 years ago. In my opinion the park has been dramatically cheapened, the average cast member today wouldn't have made it through the initial screening when I was a cast member 15 yrs ago, and the format has changed from an entertainment experience to an outdoor mall.
I'll continue to go, and complain, until at some point it just won't be worth it to me anymore. I hope Disney makes the requisite changes before this happens because I'd rather our yearly visits stay part of our lives. Disney is in control of their own Destiny.
JimboJones123
Well-Known Member
And maybe that's why they need to raise the prices and stop the growth. If the potential cast member pool isn't as good, then quit expanding and RAISE PRICES. By lowering prices, or not changing them, they are essentially not matching inflation. If more people go more offten, then they would require MORE staffing.
If you want the quality to go up, then expansion encouraging more people to visit won't accomplish that. You can't have it both ways.
Did any diehard objectors to this take
buisness/finance/accounting/economics/management/logic/ or basically any classes in college?
Yeah, price hikes aren't fun. I hate going to Chili's every few months and seeing that an Oldtimer with cheese is another $.20. It sucks. But it doesn't stop me from getting it.
The "value" for a Disney vacation is till better than the "value" for almost any vacation out there. If you can't see that -- like an earlier poster stated -- you never will.
Nobody forces you to go. If you can't afford it, don't. I don't go 2X a year because I can't afford it. If you don't like that REALLY NICE STUFF COST A BIT MORE -- sorry. There are no free gifts in this world.
JimboJones123
Well-Known Member
bjlc57
Well-Known Member
Well let me explain one final thought..
One I am shocked of the defense of WDW.. Shocked because you are defending WDW like WDW LOVED YOU...
Let me tell you one real truth: Walt Disney World DOES NOT LOVE YOU..
not at all. THEY LOVE YOUR MONEY.. they don't love you..
WDW doesn't call you.. they don't send you birthday presents or Christmas cards.. and they don't care if you are having a bad year and can't afford to visit.. They don't say: Hey you are having a bad time, here is your discount.. let us help you financially.. all we care is that YOU HELP US FINANCIALLY..
There is a guy on the radio from Florida.. his name is Bruce Williams..
He makes a very profound statement: "Don't love something that can't or doesn't love you back..."
You other posters, very vehemently defend WDW.. as though they love you.. They may know you, your name, your age, and address, but all about you that they are concerned about is YOUR MONEY..
We were in the Peco's Bill Saloon.... and they were singing "riders in the sky.." and one of the cast members grabbed a guy out of the audience and gave him a little plastic hat.. at the end of the song, the guy was going to give the hat back. The Cast members said.. " OH NO, you keep that hat... its the only thing that you will get free at this place.. " and of course the whole audience laughed.. but they all said the same thing.. This was true.. it was the only thing free at DISNEY..
Disney does not love you.. and they keep telling you every day and it gets louder every time..
That, my friends, is really the truth..
One I am shocked of the defense of WDW.. Shocked because you are defending WDW like WDW LOVED YOU...
Let me tell you one real truth: Walt Disney World DOES NOT LOVE YOU..
not at all. THEY LOVE YOUR MONEY.. they don't love you..
WDW doesn't call you.. they don't send you birthday presents or Christmas cards.. and they don't care if you are having a bad year and can't afford to visit.. They don't say: Hey you are having a bad time, here is your discount.. let us help you financially.. all we care is that YOU HELP US FINANCIALLY..
There is a guy on the radio from Florida.. his name is Bruce Williams..
He makes a very profound statement: "Don't love something that can't or doesn't love you back..."
You other posters, very vehemently defend WDW.. as though they love you.. They may know you, your name, your age, and address, but all about you that they are concerned about is YOUR MONEY..
We were in the Peco's Bill Saloon.... and they were singing "riders in the sky.." and one of the cast members grabbed a guy out of the audience and gave him a little plastic hat.. at the end of the song, the guy was going to give the hat back. The Cast members said.. " OH NO, you keep that hat... its the only thing that you will get free at this place.. " and of course the whole audience laughed.. but they all said the same thing.. This was true.. it was the only thing free at DISNEY..
Disney does not love you.. and they keep telling you every day and it gets louder every time..
That, my friends, is really the truth..
LudwigVonDrake
Well-Known Member
spaceghost
Well-Known Member
Uh, nothing personal, but what company "loves you"? This is the problem, people can't disassociate their personal feelings about Disney and their personal experiences with Disney "magic" with the plain and simple business of the situation. WDW is not a charity. Nor is it a church or community organization. They are a business. While Walt had a noble purpose behind his ideas for Disneyland and Disneyworld, he wouldn't have started them if he wasn't going to make money. They're not here to provide us with a service and charge us just enough money to break even, they exist to make a profit. They are driven by supply and demand, costs and profit margins, just as any other business would be. As long as the market will bear it out, they can and will raise prices. If their underlying operating costs have risen, then they will raise prices to keep their profit margin at what is deemed by the investors to be a respectable amount. That's just the way it is - that's how capitalism works. If they raise prices high enough, the decrease in demand will offset the increase in prices and prices will come back down (or level off in respect to inflation). To me, this is just not a big deal.
Personally, I'm betting that this move is driven by rising energy prices. I can't imagine the amount of fuel, etc. that a place like WDW goes through daily - it ain't cheap, that's for sure. I was just thinking the other day that since Katrina last year, our weekly grocery bill has gone up by at least $20-25, let alone what's happened to our gas bill. Rising energy costs have caused other products to go up as well, and I'm betting this is at least part of Disney's reason for the price increase.
NX2I85
Active Member
Disney World doesn't love me... and Walt sure as heck aint my Uncle!
It is a blooming COMPANY! Yes, I willingly suspend disbelief for those days I am in the parks, but I hold no illusion IRL that WDW "loves" me. As long as I consider it to be a good value for me and my family I will spnd my money there; the moment I cease to see it as a good value I could care less if they close the place down. This is how capitalism works. It is a cold, calculating system -but I know of no better form of economy.
It is a blooming COMPANY! Yes, I willingly suspend disbelief for those days I am in the parks, but I hold no illusion IRL that WDW "loves" me. As long as I consider it to be a good value for me and my family I will spnd my money there; the moment I cease to see it as a good value I could care less if they close the place down. This is how capitalism works. It is a cold, calculating system -but I know of no better form of economy.
niteobsrvr
Well-Known Member
Oh My gorsh, we have all gone a bit mad. A company loves us? Someone needs a company to love them? WOW.
Businesses don't exist unless someone buys their product. It is no more complicated than that. For that reason we need them and they need us. We have a need and they fill it for cash or credit card.
Of course if you don't like this idea, you are welcome to build a themepark in your backyard. But you will still need to give an uncaring unloving company your money in order to get it all done. Oh, and don't forget the legal battles you will have upfront with the local government.
The Disney company is a buisness and we are its consumers. IF we don't like what they are doing, we vote with our pocketbook. If enough people do that, DIsney will hire a marketing company to figure out what it will take to get you back through the gate. Then we all start going to Disney again or not and the cycle continues until we find another source of comparable entertainment or Disney finds the way to tug at our hearts.
The only love I am concerned with is from my friends and family.
Businesses don't exist unless someone buys their product. It is no more complicated than that. For that reason we need them and they need us. We have a need and they fill it for cash or credit card.
Of course if you don't like this idea, you are welcome to build a themepark in your backyard. But you will still need to give an uncaring unloving company your money in order to get it all done. Oh, and don't forget the legal battles you will have upfront with the local government.
The Disney company is a buisness and we are its consumers. IF we don't like what they are doing, we vote with our pocketbook. If enough people do that, DIsney will hire a marketing company to figure out what it will take to get you back through the gate. Then we all start going to Disney again or not and the cycle continues until we find another source of comparable entertainment or Disney finds the way to tug at our hearts.
The only love I am concerned with is from my friends and family.
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