NYT: "Universal....Takes Aim at Disney"

[jt04]

here's where you lose me. no one is saying that.

critics of WDW are holding it to its own standard, set by WDW itself back in the early '80s to the mid '90s.
they are then saying that universal recognizes that the disney-of-old business model works (obviously), and are embracing it by building innovative, immersive attractions and experiences. something travelers are responding to, as supported by the soaring IOA attendance numbers.
as a result, disney fans want WDW to get back to their roots.

you hear: OMG GUYS DISNEY IS SO BAD AND UNI ROCKS HARD!

listen, i don't get overly negative on WDW, just because i enjoy it and it's a family favorite and it's still very good. but it's willful blindness to not walk past a closed wonders of life, a laughable JOI, a half-refurbed space mountain, the ghost of alien encounter, a broken yeti, and other glaring holes and not realize this is an inferior product to what i got for (less) money in... say 1994.

The so-called critis always fail to account for the massive hole WDW was allowed to fall into. Almost every problem you mention was due to previous mismanagement and lack of focus. It is obvious that is no longer the case but they refuse to acknowledge that. It has become more than childish.

And I am somewhat suprised this thread has been allowed to devolve into another excuse to bash WDW without merit or facts.

 

[bubbles1812]

If you count being pushed through like so much cattle then yes I guess that could be called "successful" design.

And lastly, there is a case that could be made that almost any ride does this. For example, I've been in HM stretching rooms when they've filled those suckers to the brim during busy times and I've felt like cattle. And the line for Soarin' certainly feels that way. But then, you have yet to experience any of the HP rides so how can you judge their queues (which are spectacular and on par with Disney's new queues)...

Thanks for giving me a good laugh this morning jt. All your posts certainly did.

 

[Jeffxz]

so in total it is:

WDW 2009: 47,513,000
WDW 2011: 47,449,000
change: -0,14%

Universal Resort 2009: 10,157,000
Universal Resort 2011: 13,718,000
change: +35,06%

Yes, the total numbers are still small. but within two years Universal gained 3.5 million new visitors while WDW's attendance was stagnant. And those 3.5 millions are nearly 1/3 of the annual attendance of Epcot.

If you add to this the logic that "Rising tides raise all ships", then you really have to wonder how bad WDW's numbers would have been without potter.

 

[ChrisFL]

C'mon, Chris. You are smarter than this. Falling into the 'It's summer and WDW is stale and UNI isn't and everything exciting that Disney is doing is happening this summer in Anaheim, Asia or on the seas and 'Frank' has an endless supply of BS' line of going back and forth. The numbers ... the important ones ... they speak for themselves. The fact DLR has decided very quickly that there will be at least one new major attraction (and likely two) on their way to DL to combat The Boy Who Lived's arrival at the 101 and Lankershim tells you all you need to know.

You don't compare Soarin to FJ wait times just like you don't waste lifetime you won't get back at the end by playing with the site's resident troll.

Eh, I was having fun

 

[bubbles1812]

Bubbles, I admire your efforts - and I think your posts are really great. But yes, that last sentence really does some that poster up. You won't be able to change anything... Many have tried in the past and you see the result of their efforts...

Haha, I know. But his posts are so asinine, that its hard not to respond because of the faulty logic. I'm a very logical person. And thank you for the compliment. Also, I'm having fun.

And I am somewhat suprised this thread has been allowed to devolve into another excuse to bash WDW without merit or facts.

You are changing your arguments yet again... if I still had the :rolling on the floor laughing: icon it would be here. It hasn't. No one has been bashing WDW. If you've noticed, you are the only one who thinks this. We've supported the facts we've presented. If you go back through the thread, yes, people have said WDW isn't the same anymore and there are things in need of improvement/repair but no one has said WDW is so awful, which is what you seem to see every time anyone says anything critical.

You completely dismissed the post you quoted when you said this....as he was trying to make the point that no one is bashing WDW. Like he said, all you hear is "Disney is so bad andUni rocks hard," which isn't the case at all.

 

[RSoxNo1]

Failing to realize that FJ's very high capacity is part of it's successfull design

What is the capacity? With 4 per bench and the benches continuously moving I could see it at around 2000 per hour.

Agree with you and Cheezbat completely. A refurbed Imagination would go a long way to helping the park.

And really, they need to replace Mission:SPACE. It's a very polarzing ride, just seeing that so many people can't ride it, its also not exactly what you'd call a thrill ride and from what CM's who work there say, it doesn't get a lot of traffic that a park's big E-Ticket should get. And no, this doesn't have anything to do with it replacing Horizon's. I think they can do better than M:S and that would go REALLY far in helping EPCOT.

Guaranteed, refurbed Imagination and a new E-Ticket in M:S's plot and Soarin's lines would be cut in half.

I really think that Hunny Hunt tech in Imagination is #2 on the list of things that are no brainer moves for Disney (behind a Star Wars land).

I think part of the problem with Mission: SPACE is that they built in too much capacity. It didn't move the attendance numbers the way they expected. They were anticipating that this would be the next big thing cloned all around the world. I think it's salvageable, but it needs a new show. I know that the arms of the centrifuge all have to move in sync with one another, but a level of randomization would go a long way. Even if all 10 capsules on a particular centrifuge get the same random show it would be a substantial improvement.

 

[devoy1701]

Agree with you and Cheezbat completely. A refurbed Imagination would go a long way to helping the park.

And really, they need to replace Mission:SPACE. It's a very polarzing ride, just seeing that so many people can't ride it, its also not exactly what you'd call a thrill ride and from what CM's who work there say, it doesn't get a lot of traffic that a park's big E-Ticket should get. And no, this doesn't have anything to do with it replacing Horizon's. I think they can do better than M:S and that would go REALLY far in helping EPCOT.

Guaranteed, refurbed Imagination and a new E-Ticket in M:S's plot and Soarin's lines would be cut in half.

I love M:S, but I do agree with your opinion of it. As an E-Ticket, it does alienate quite a large amount of guests which is something that EPCOT cannot afford because it doesn't have a very large or impressive lineup of attractions anymore. I doubt they would replace M:S within the next 10 yrs though because of how much money was spent on the attraction. If we ever get a refurb of Imagination and UoE greenlit to include atleast 1 new e-ticket that is accessable by most guests, I don't think keeping M:S would be such an issue anymore.

 

[jt04]

Thanks for giving me a good laugh this morning jt. All your posts certainly did.

Definitely part of what I aspire to do. (Insert Dr Evil smiley here)

WE NEED MORE SMILEYS!!!!

 

[flynnibus]

If you count being pushed through like so much cattle then yes I guess that could be called "successful" design.

Yes, because the high capacity of some of the world's most successful attractions, like PoTC, IASW, and Haunted Mansion all make people feel like cattle because the ride is such high capacity...

What miserable excuses for come backs..

 

[baymenxpac]

The so-called critis always fail to account for the massive hole WDW was allowed to fall into. Almost every problem you mention was due to previous mismanagement and lack of focus. It is obvious that is no longer the case but they refuse to acknowledge that. It has become more than childish.

And I am somewhat suprised this thread has been allowed to devolve into another excuse to bash WDW without merit or facts.

it's not really obvious that's no longer the case, because they're not all fixed/filled. if it was "obvious," no one would have concerns about the state of those problems i mentioned. but they still exist. and for the record, you can't just pass off your own inferences and personal conclusions as facts. that's generally what derails these exchanges.

and for the love of all things that are holy, people aren't "bashing." they're comparing. the whole thread is about universal "taking aim" at disney. i think comparing the recent steps taken by universal and disney is probably fair game in a thread about an article that doesthe same thing. oh and for the "merits and facts" comment....HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA.

 

[jt04]

1) Universal has already done this....you did see the announcement for Avartarland didn't you? That wasn't just because they so desperately wanted to build and Pandora just for the sake of it. I would bet you anything they are hoping for its success to be on par with Potter's.

2) No one has actually said this in this thread if you were actually paying attention to anything but your own blather. We have talked about Universal's enhancements bringing it closer to Disney. Not that Disney is so pathetic that we hate it.

3) Do you listen to absolutely nothing insiders have told us (people with established credibility on this thread) about how Potter has made Disney nervous? See point number one.

Your tunnel vision is astounding.

Sorry, I am a bit distracted by the knowledge Carsland and the Red Car Trolley open in 3 DAYS!!!!

 

[Bolna]

WE NEED MORE SMILEYS!!!!

... Can I state that I HATE the new smileys? I am lost without my Dr. Evil and king and .... sigh .....

I think the world is coming to an end!!! WDW1974 and jt04 agree on something!! But according to Mayans the world's end isn't until December this year - has the wdwmagic forum update sped up events??

 

[bubbles1812]

Sorry, I am a bit distracted by the knowledge Carsland and the Red Car Trolley open in 3 DAYS!!!!

Haha, way to just dismiss every point I actually made...I'm just going to take that as you could find nothing in their you could make a new irrational comment on.

And that's fine you are excited for those. Carsland looks great and that's coming from a person who doesn't like the Cars movies. Though again, they aren't opening in Orlando and sort of irrelevant to the discussion in this thread as of yet. When Uni builds their west coast Potter addition, then we can talk.

WE NEED MORE SMILEYS!!!!

And hey! something we agree on. I suspect it will be the only thing we ever agree on but there ya go. *laughing smiley*

 

[asianway]

If you add to this the logic that "Rising tides raise all ships", then you really have to wonder how bad WDW's numbers would have been without potter.

Like I've said, hemorraging market share. And I'm sure the execs are spinning these numbers to Burbank so hard, some of them passed out.

But at some point, someone needs to be held accountable, and I hope that day is near...

 

[Buried20KLeague]

People, people. We're all falling into the jt vortex. We all just need to step away.

It's more and more obvious as this thread goes on that he's abandoned actual discussion on the topic just to try to antagonize and cause trouble. The more people point to facts and figures, the more outlandish he gets.

Add to that the fact that he purposely logs in only long enough to make his posts and then logs right back out (when we all know he's still monitoring the threads, but doesn't want us to know he's there) and the blantant removal of peoples' legitimate points when he quotes them so he doesn't have to address them... I mean, come on. It's pitiful. It's childish.

He hasn't been to O town in years, and readily admits he has no plans to.

He hasn't been on FJ or seen Potterville, yet speaks with authority on its quality.

He hasnt' been to DTD or PI, ADMITTEDLY, in YEARS... In fact, I'm not sure if he's ever been to PI at all (I can't recall), yet he has his finger on the pulse of the entire area and what it needs.

He's really become a troll... Which is too bad, becuase he used to occasionally have decent points, years ago. But at this point he works so hard to take opposing stances from everyone, it's become completely unbelievable. You just can't buy into anything he says anymore, because it's all so far off base, and certainly so on purpose.

So everyone take a deep breath with me, and step away. Don't get drawn into the vortex.

 

[flynnibus]

Add to that the fact that he purposely logs in only long enough to make his posts and then logs right back out (when we all know he's still monitoring the threads, but doesn't want us to know he's there) and the blantant removal of peoples' legitimate points when he quotes them so he doesn't have to address them... I mean, come on. It's pitiful. It's childish.

The rest of us call that 'closing your browser'. You put way too much weight into who is doing what on the site in how it reports activity. People load pages when they get notifications.. or just leave pages open in the background and refresh later, etc. Don't read into it.

And yes, ignore, especially now that it's total ignore... is the solution.

 

[lazyboy97o]

it's not really obvious that's no longer the case, because they're not all fixed/filled. if it was "obvious," no one would have concerns about the state of those problems i mentioned. but they still exist. and for the record, you can't just pass off your own inferences and personal conclusions as facts. that's generally what derails these exchanges.

Remember, this is the guy who says Space Mountain should not be viewed as being totally refurbished, but as only "prefurbished" because it is going to get even bigger and better changes down the line. Walt Disney World is out of its "hole" because he claims to have analyzed the industry so well he can see what is happening down the line, as it all happens just as he would supposedly run the parks.

 

[Buried20KLeague]

The rest of us call that 'closing your browser'. You put way too much weight into who is doing what on the site in how it reports activity. People load pages when they get notifications.. or just leave pages open in the background and refresh later, etc. Don't read into it.

And yes, ignore, especially now that it's total ignore... is the solution.

It's been brought up many times before, never refuted. I'm not the first.

Ignore would work, if I wasn't interested in defending my points when he responds to portions of my posts.

 

[asianway]

It's been brought up many times before, never refuted. I'm not the first.

Ignore would work, if I wasn't interested in defending my points when he responds to portions of my posts.

Once you ignore the jt bros, you never go back

 

[flynnibus]

Ignore would work, if I wasn't interested in defending my points when he responds to portions of my posts.

You don't need to counter what no one reads...