NYT: "Universal....Takes Aim at Disney"

[maxairmike]

Indeed, I've only ever walked on FJ first thing in the morning, or within a half hour of the park closing if the park wasn't busy. The park dynamics at Universal are also quite different than the Disney parks, so the lines also react quite differently. It is not apples to apples, nowhere close.

 

[WDW1974]

So you're backpedaling....ok

Soarin vs. FJ? Seriously? You're going with that argument?

Well, ok.

What's the guests per hour ridership of Soarin' vs. FJ?

Also, FJ is a walk-on for single riders recently, because of the changes they made to the queue, I haven't seen anything about it being walk-on for everyone.

Soarin' is good for riders from 3 to 90 years old, FJ clearly isn't. You can't compare the two.

C'mon, Chris. You are smarter than this. Falling into the 'It's summer and WDW is stale and UNI isn't and everything exciting that Disney is doing is happening this summer in Anaheim, Asia or on the seas and 'Frank' has an endless supply of BS' line of going back and forth. The numbers ... the important ones ... they speak for themselves. The fact DLR has decided very quickly that there will be at least one new major attraction (and likely two) on their way to DL to combat The Boy Who Lived's arrival at the 101 and Lankershim tells you all you need to know.

You don't compare Soarin to FJ wait times just like you don't waste lifetime you won't get back at the end by playing with the site's resident troll.

 

[flynnibus]

I have heard there are times FJ is virtually a walk-on now. At the same time it is still common for Soarin' to have a two hour wait. And that was before TT shut down. Do you really want to compare attendence numbers, wait times etc? I wouldn't think so.

Failing to realize that FJ's very high capacity is part of it's successfull design

 

[maxairmike]

Failing to realize that FJ's very high capacity is part of it's successfull design

Indeed. I've waited many times at the bottom of the greenhouse ramps and around the corner and it is usually little more than a 45 minute wait, sometimes closer to 30 if they don't have to stop the ride at all. With about half of the excess queue to the far side of the greenhouse ramps open (the ones closest to the bush/tree edge, not the ones against the wall, those are always open), I've waited no longer than about an hour and 15 minutes.

 

[bubbles1812]

2010 was a partial year wheras 2011 was a full year so the meaningful numbers will be for 2012 to determine trends. I have heard there are times FJ is virtually a walk-on now. At the same time it is still common for Soarin' to have a two hour wait. And that was before TT shut down. Do you really want to compare attendence numbers, wait times etc? I wouldn't think so.

Why would it matter if you compared partial versus full years? The oh right it doesn't...as long as you compare Disney's partial 2010 year to Universal's partial year. And why in the world don't 2011's matters number? The trend is a trend whether it's half a year or a full year. There is no arguing the fact that Universal's attendance % has skyrocketed vs Disney's, which have stagnated. It is a fact. You truly look to be a fool. I'm guessing if the opposite trend was happening, you would be spouting off to the world how Disney's numbers are up and Universal's are stagnant. If the numbers were fluctuating, I would say wait to judge but Universal has only upticks and Disney has shown only stagnation (this has not just been the case last year or 2010, but the last few years)...the trend has already emerged.

Also, as others have stated but I'm going to repeat to nail the point home into your apparently incredibly thick pixie dust covered skull, FJ is no where near a walk on. Single rider maybe...but virtually any single rider line is near walk on. I've been able to get on TT in very few minutes each time using the single rider line. And, oh wait, you haven't been there to see it yourself nor are you providing any sources to your "claims" (which clearly is just made up BS) that FJ has been a walk on. Lastly, again, as others have pointed out...how in the world are Soarin' and FJ equivalent in any way shape or form? They aren't comparable at all. There really isn't a ride equivalent at Disney to FJ. It's pretty hard to compare apples and oranges. You have to compare apples and apples.

Really your post is aptly summarized with Godzilla's facepalm as Flynn was so kind to provide Your post is laughable as you have backpedaled on the arguments you have made thus far and dismiss hard facts with totally illogical thoughts.

 

[Tom Morrow]

Place Soarin' in a park with a more comparable dynamic with more attractions than Epcot, like, oh I dunno, DCA... and it would not have 2 hour wait times. In fact it isn't even regarded as a "must do" at DCA. There is hyperbole around Soarin' at Epcot and its perceived popularity. Everyone gets a Fastpass because "everyone gets a Fastpass."

 

[cheezbat]

Place Soarin' in a park with a more comparable dynamic with more attractions than Epcot, like, oh I dunno, DCA... and it would not have 2 hour wait times. In fact it isn't even regarded as a "must do" at DCA. There is hyperbole around Soarin' at Epcot and its perceived popularity. Everyone gets a Fastpass because "everyone gets a Fastpass."

What has indeed interested me is that Soarin' in Cali never has the waits Soarin' in Florida does...I've only visited DCA between June-October in the past 5 years and have never seen a wait longer than 40 minutes...yet at Epcot the wait is always 80 minutes or more.

As for Forbidden Journey...since you haven't even been on the ride jt04, how can you compare wait times and say it's a walk on? I for one have been to Universal around 20 times this year already, and have never seen it less than 30 minutes...and most of the time it's been between 90-120 minutes! Slow season compared to busy season of course you'll see a difference in wait times...just as I saw a difference in wait times over at Disney...ToT 20 minutes during slow time, 45-90 busy time.
Potter is still as popular at Universal as it's first year...and with the buzz about Potter 2.0, the fan community is in a tizzy!

As others have said, I love both companies' parks...what's wrong with that? Competition is great for us visitors! I truly hope to see WDW get back on the horse and breathe some new life into dated attractions as well as add new and exciting ones.

 

[menamechris]

What has indeed interested me is that Soarin' in Cali never has the waits Soarin' in Florida does...I've only visited DCA between June-October in the past 5 years and have never seen a wait longer than 40 minutes...yet at Epcot the wait is always 80 minutes or more.

I personally see this as a very sad testament to what Epcot has become. It is a huge park - but when you get right down to it - the attractions are now sorely lacking, since they have either closed or refurbed huge favorites to something embarrassing... What used to be "must do's" at Epcot (lookin' at you Figment)...I now pass by and wonder why they don't close altogether. And can we PLEASE get an update of Ellen? It's been there so long, we didn't even know she was a lesbian when it came out...

 

[bubbles1812]

I personally see this as a very sad testament to what Epcot has become. It is a huge park - but when you get right down to it - the attractions are now sorely lacking, since they have either closed or refurbed huge favorites to something embarrassing... What used to be "must do's" at Epcot (lookin' at you Figment)...I now pass by and wonder why they don't close altogether. And can we PLEASE get an update of Ellen? It's been there so long, we didn't even know she was a lesbian when it came out...

I miss the old/original Imagination ride so much. It was one of our favorites and we would seriously ride it over and over again. It was just so unique and there were so many different things to look at. I found it stunning. The version they have now is ok but it's such a pale (and obviously much cheaper) in comparison to the original. It makes me sad. That being said, I would be very sad if Imagination disappeared altogether. I think Epcot always needs Figment and I'd be even more sad if he disappeared from the parks entirely. Though it wouldn't surprise me to see them eventually get rid of the ride. And I don't know about anyone else but I much preferred Honey I Shrunk the Audience to Captain EO. Heck, even Body Wars was pretty good. And Cranium Command too...it was enjoyable and you could learn something. Sorry, bit of an off topic post and I recognize a need to move forward and try new things but your thoughts reminded me of some of the things I really miss about the World...original Imagination is at the top of the list for me. Epcot could really use some new things besides a refurbished Test Track though it isn't like AK/DHS couldn't use some new things too. Pardon the pun and slightly rhetorical question but where did the Imagination go?? Sigh.

 

[jt04]

Uh... that is major BS. I was there two weeks ago and the wait was over an hour long (both days).

Yes this is the busy season. And even then wait times have diminshed. I think the defensiveness of the IoA fanboys really does say it all. Harry has you in his spell.

 

[jt04]

Failing to realize that FJ's very high capacity is part of it's successfull design

If you count being pushed through like so much cattle then yes I guess that could be called "successful" design.

 

[jt04]

What has indeed interested me is that Soarin' in Cali never has the waits Soarin' in Florida does...I've only visited DCA between June-October in the past 5 years and have never seen a wait longer than 40 minutes...yet at Epcot the wait is always 80 minutes or more.

As for Forbidden Journey...since you haven't even been on the ride jt04, how can you compare wait times and say it's a walk on? I for one have been to Universal around 20 times this year already, and have never seen it less than 30 minutes...and most of the time it's been between 90-120 minutes! Slow season compared to busy season of course you'll see a difference in wait times...just as I saw a difference in wait times over at Disney...ToT 20 minutes during slow time, 45-90 busy time.
Potter is still as popular at Universal as it's first year...and with the buzz about Potter 2.0, the fan community is in a tizzy!

As others have said, I love both companies' parks...what's wrong with that? Competition is great for us visitors! I truly hope to see WDW get back on the horse and breathe some new life into dated attractions as well as add new and exciting ones.

I have never said otherwise. However Universal really needs to step up its game to pressure Disney in a meaningful way. Potter 2.0 has the potential to start to do that. Especially with Legoland and SW's Artic attractions adding to the pressure. But for everyone to blather on about how WDW is pathetic and Potter is so dreamy not only makes those claiming it look ridiculous, in practice it is actually is counter-productive. My guess is Disney tuned out the Potter groupies about a year ago.

 

[Bolna]

Why would it matter if you compared partial versus full years? The oh right it doesn't...as long as you compare Disney's partial 2010 year to Universal's partial year. And why in the world don't 2011's matters number? The trend is a trend whether it's half a year or a full year. There is no arguing the fact that Universal's attendance % has skyrocketed vs Disney's, which have stagnated. It is a fact. You truly look to be a fool. I'm guessing if the opposite trend was happening, you would be spouting off to the world how Disney's numbers are up and Universal's are stagnant. If the numbers were fluctuating, I would say wait to judge but Universal has only upticks and Disney has shown only stagnation (this has not just been the case last year or 2010, but the last few years)...the trend has already emerged.

I fully agree with you, but just for the fun of it, let's look at full years - which can be done by comparing 2009 (full year without Potter) and 2011 (full year with Potter).

MK 2009: 17,233,000 visitors
MK 2011: 17,142,000 visitors
change: -0.53 %

IoA 2009: 4,627,000
IoA 2011: 7,674,000
change: +65.85%

more or less the same picture prevails with regard to the other parks:

Epcot 2009: 10,990,000
Epcot 2011: 10,825,000
change: -0,5%

DHS 2009: 9,700,000
DHS 2011: 9,699,000
change: -0.01%

AK 2009: 9,590,000
AK 2011: 9,783,000
change: +2.01%

USO 2009: 5,530,000
USO 2011: 6,044,000
change: +9.29%

so in total it is:

WDW 2009: 47,513,000
WDW 2011: 47,449,000
change: -0,14%

Universal Resort 2009: 10,157,000
Universal Resort 2011: 13,718,000
change: +35,06%

Yes, the total numbers are still small. but within two years Universal gained 3.5 million new visitors while WDW's attendance was stagnant. And those 3.5 millions are nearly 1/3 of the annual attendance of Epcot.

 

[misterID]

I personally see this as a very sad testament to what Epcot has become. It is a huge park - but when you get right down to it - the attractions are now sorely lacking, since they have either closed or refurbed huge favorites to something embarrassing... What used to be "must do's" at Epcot (lookin' at you Figment)...I now pass by and wonder why they don't close altogether. And can we PLEASE get an update of Ellen? It's been there so long, we didn't even know she was a lesbian when it came out...

Agree with you and Cheezbat completely. A refurbed Imagination would go a long way to helping the park.

And really, they need to replace Mission:SPACE. It's a very polarzing ride, just seeing that so many people can't ride it, its also not exactly what you'd call a thrill ride and from what CM's who work there say, it doesn't get a lot of traffic that a park's big E-Ticket should get. And no, this doesn't have anything to do with it replacing Horizon's. I think they can do better than M:S and that would go REALLY far in helping EPCOT.

Guaranteed, refurbed Imagination and a new E-Ticket in M:S's plot and Soarin's lines would be cut in half.

 

[djlaosc]

Agree with you and Cheezbat completely. A refurbed Imagination would go a long way to helping the park.

And really, they need to replace Mission:SPACE. It's a very polarzing ride, just seeing that so many people can't ride it, its also not exactly what you'd call a thrill ride and from what CM's who work there say, it doesn't get a lot of traffic that a park's big E-Ticket should get. And no, this doesn't have anything to do with it replacing Horizon's. I think they can do better than M:S and that would go REALLY far in helping EPCOT.

Guaranteed, refurbed Imagination and a new E-Ticket in M:S's plot and Soarin's lines would be cut in half.

I would rather that they move "The Seas with Nemo & Friends" to Animal Kingdom - it's really where it belongs - and then build something new on that plot, instead of replacing Mission:SPACE - gets another attraction for Animal Kingdom AND a new attraction for Epcot - but I would guess that that is not likely to happen now (would have been more likely before the Nemo makeover I would guess)

 

[baymenxpac]

I have never said otherwise. However Universal really needs to step up its game to pressure Disney in a meaningful way. Potter 2.0 has the potential to start to do that. Especially with Legoland and SW's Artic attractions adding to the pressure. But for everyone to blather on about how WDW is pathetic and Potter is so dreamy not only makes those claiming it look ridiculous, in practice it is actually is counter-productive. My guess is Disney tuned out the Potter groupies about a year ago.

here's where you lose me. no one is saying that.

critics of WDW are holding it to its own standard, set by WDW itself back in the early '80s to the mid '90s.
they are then saying that universal recognizes that the disney-of-old business model works (obviously), and are embracing it by building innovative, immersive attractions and experiences. something travelers are responding to, as supported by the soaring IOA attendance numbers.
as a result, disney fans want WDW to get back to their roots.

you hear: OMG GUYS DISNEY IS SO BAD AND UNI ROCKS HARD!

listen, i don't get overly negative on WDW, just because i enjoy it and it's a family favorite and it's still very good. but it's willful blindness to not walk past a closed wonders of life, a laughable JOI, a half-refurbed space mountain, the ghost of alien encounter, a broken yeti, and other glaring holes and not realize this is an inferior product to what i got for (less) money in... say 1994.

 

[bubbles1812]

Yes this is the busy season. And even then wait times have diminshed. I think the defensiveness of the IoA fanboys really does say it all. Harry has you in his spell.

Find me any proof. And I mean any that this is true. Oh right you can't except for the "well I've heard it"...from no source anybody actually knows with any established credibility. Wait times haven't diminished. It's lovely the way you make up facts to support your case but when faced with facts that can actually be verified and are documented, you brush them aside.

Also, everyone could say the same about you...With your defensiveness of Disney to the point of trolling, one could say Tinkerbelle put a whole lot of pixiedust in your eyes to the point of blindness.

 

[bubbles1812]

I have never said otherwise. 1) However Universal really needs to step up its game to pressure Disney in a meaningful way. Potter 2.0 has the potential to start to do that. Especially with Legoland and SW's Artic attractions adding to the pressure. 2) But for everyone to blather on about how WDW is pathetic and Potter is so dreamy not only makes those claiming it look ridiculous, in practice it is actually is counter-productive. My guess is Disney tuned out the Potter groupies about a year ago.

1) Universal has already done this....you did see the announcement for Avartarland didn't you? That wasn't just because they so desperately wanted to build and Pandora just for the sake of it. I would bet you anything they are hoping for its success to be on par with Potter's.

2) No one has actually said this in this thread if you were actually paying attention to anything but your own blather. We have talked about Universal's enhancements bringing it closer to Disney. Not that Disney is so pathetic that we hate it.

3) Do you listen to absolutely nothing insiders have told us (people with established credibility on this thread) about how Potter has made Disney nervous? See point number one.

Your tunnel vision is astounding.

 

[GLaDOS]

Why is anyone wasting their time with him?

Ignore list is a wonderful thing...

 

[Bolna]

Your tunnel vision is astounding.

Bubbles, I admire your efforts - and I think your posts are really great. But yes, that last sentence really does some that poster up. You won't be able to change anything... Many have tried in the past and you see the result of their efforts...