NYT: "Universal....Takes Aim at Disney"

whylightbulb

Well-Known Member
Any hints about what will pop up in its place? (I, too, am curious to see if E.T really is sacrosanct because of Spielberg, or if that is just myth). It seems likely that the area would be rebuilt to a theme that would be kid-friendly, but is there any possibility of a Lord of The Rings land?
The only thing I'm going to say at this point is that it will be another investment of significant proportions. Potter phase 2 is a good two and a half years away but after it opens Kidzone should be the next big thing.
 

Bolna

Well-Known Member
No offense, but if you haven't gotten the points I've already made so far (In essence I've said the same thing over and over in different ways trying to get you to understand while you continually change your argument), then you aren't going to get it now. You have extreme tunnel vision so the chances that it will still become "verbal wack-a-mole" are great even if I did that. I've taken a look at the other convos you've had and it all goes the same way. They go like this...

1) Everyone has a good conversation going
2) You come in and make a statement that has (usually) pretty faulty logic or is just completely nonsensical
3) Everyone makes logical and rational posts pointing out the holes in your arguments
4) You refute said logical posts by either a) changing your argument several times b) picking and choosing the things you want to answer while disregarding entirely what the rest of a post says. c) You also tend to make up "facts" that can't be supported and from everyone elses' experiences show no evidence, none whatsoever of being true. "Someone" telling you FJ has magically started to have drastically reduced wait times and that it's clearly losing steam for example
5) People continue to make logical and rational posts poking giant holes in your arguments and you continue doing #4
6) You end by making a flippant remark disregarding absolutely anything that has been said in the "I'm right, everyone else is wrong" way and after that, I suspect with you take another shot of pixie dust
7) And repeat...

But if you go to my profile page, you can click to where all my posts are in the thread.

Great summary! I like people who know logic and know how to do their research! And I think this post should be kept as future reference whenever someone new is drawn into debating with jt... :rolleyes:
 

misterID

Well-Known Member
The only thing I'm going to say at this point is that it will be another investment of significant proportions. Potter phase 2 is a good two and a half years away but after it opens Kidzone should be the next big thing.

Oh, man...

I hope at some point The Madagascar ride and land makes it to UNI Orlando. That dark ride is fantastic.
 

magicallactose

Well-Known Member
The only thing I'm going to say at this point is that it will be another investment of significant proportions. Potter phase 2 is a good two and a half years away but after it opens Kidzone should be the next big thing.
Hmmmm. Colour me very intrigued. A large investment and the next big thing, eh? I was thinking it might be something like a Spongebob or Nickelodeon overlay, but now I'm thinking it's a lot more ambitious than that. (Although either of those ideas I mentioned would be very exciting for kids).
 

jt04

Well-Known Member
The only thing I'm going to say at this point is that it will be another investment of significant proportions. Potter phase 2 is a good two and a half years away but after it opens Kidzone should be the next big thing.

2 and a half years! What the.......o_O
 

bubbles1812

Well-Known Member
Post 666. :eek:
Haha, that actually made me laugh jt... Though that doesn't change the fact you still did #6. But seriously, here is the deal why I'm don't feel like summarizing to you: Everyone, literally everyone has been saying the same things over and over trying to get you to understand. Virtually everyone also seems to understand all the posts perfectly fine except you. That should tell you something. Again, all my posts can be clicked on and read via my profile page.
 

jt04

Well-Known Member
Haha, that actually made me laugh jt... Though that doesn't change the fact you still did #6. But seriously, here is the deal why I'm don't feel like summarizing to you: Everyone, literally everyone has been saying the same things over and over trying to get you to understand. Virtually everyone also seems to understand all the posts perfectly fine except you. That should tell you something. Again, all my posts can be clicked on and read.

Please just do me this favor and I will buy you a cup of coffee. Starbucks even. Just a quick summery of what this thread is about in your own words. The condensed version. Simple and to the point.
 

ParentsOf4

Well-Known Member
An earlier post suggested that Disney’s previous management let WDW fall into a state of disrepair while Disney's current management has recognized this and is responding accordingly.

Disney CEO for over 20 years was Michael Eisner, who held the post from 1984 to 2005. When Eisner took the helm, there were dire concerns that the Walt Disney Company was about to be taken over. The company was performing poorly, without a major film success since the Love Bug in the 1960s. With the exception of theme parks, the corporate divisions within Disney were loosing money. Eisner is generally credited with turning the company around to the point where it became a juggernaut by the 1990s.

Concerning theme parks, Eisner viewed the Imagineers as the real talent and considered theme park executives to be "monkeys". (Eisner's word, meaning that running the theme park business was so easy even a monkey could do it.) There were strong rumors that Disney was going to layoff all the Imagineers, believing they could get the work done cheaper elsewhere. (Probably true.) Eisner "saved" the Imagineers, believing them to be the real brains behind the success of the theme parks.

Concerning Walt Disney World, Eisner viewed the Orlando facility as an underutilized asset and supported its growth, giving us WDW as it largely exists today. Disney Hollywood Studios, Animal Kingdom, DisneyQuest, Typhoon Lagoon, Blizzard Beach, and numerous resorts were added during Eisner's "golden years" at the helm. Although Eisner greatly expanded WDW, he freely admitted that he did not know the theme park business and was notoriously budget conscious, "cheap" if you will. This cheapness shows in DHS and DAK, many people complaining even today that neither theme park feels like a "full day park". Eisner's alleged "cheapness" also appears to have affected park maintenance, which generally declined beginning in the late 1990s as Eisner searched for more ways to squeeze every dollar out of the theme parks.

Eisner was replaced by his hand-picked successor, Robert Iger, in 2005. Iger is more of an enigma that Eisner. Whereas Eisner enjoyed publicity to the point where he hosted the Wonderful World of Disney from 1986 to 1996, Iger is less inclined to appear before the general public, an interesting choice given Disney very public image. Iger certainly has been less controversial than Eisner, with the acquisitions Marvel and especially Pixar demonstrating Iger's ability to complete deals that his polarizing predecessor could not accomplish. Iger may be a more "steady hand" than Eisner, whose idiosyncrasies eventually led to his downfall. Iger was recently named Chairman of the Board and his contract has been extended until 2016, with Iger planning to step down as CEO in March 2015.

Frontrunners to replace Iger are either Jay Rasulo, who ran the theme parks from 2002 to 2009, or Tom Staggs, who has run theme parks since then. Given Eisner's apparent contempt for theme park executives, it is interesting that the 2 frontrunners both come from that division. It is likely that either will continue the current trend, avoiding major capital outlays in WDW while still investing in more moderate improvements similar to FLE and Avatarland. Hopefully, money recently spent to repair or upgrade existing WDW infrastructure indicate corporate Disney will begin to more earnestly invest in WDW maintenance than during the previous decade.

With both frontrunners having a background in theme parks, its seems doubtful that Disney will lose sight of what the competition is doing up the road at Universal, although it also seems improbable that they will try to make as big of a splash as Universal did when it opened the Wizarding World of Harry Potter. It must be remembered that J.K. Rowling wanted to work with Disney but abandoned them when she insisted on maintaining creative control. Disney lost WWOHP because they were conservative in their approach to theme park development and unwilling to take the gamble. Universal was willing and the decision appears to have rescued their theme parks.

It would be nice to speculate that the 2015 transition in leadership will be accompanied by the announcement of a 5th Gate. However, given the recent investments in cruise ships, Disneyland, FLE, Avatarland, and park maintenance, it's possible that Disney might "take a breath" before committing to a major investment such as a 5th theme park at WDW.

Given Disney’s international reputation and its considerable footprint in central Florida, it does not seem that Universal is yet in a position to seriously challenge Disney as the “king” of Orlando. Universal's WWOHP opened to wide acclaim and Universal is following-up on that success with Phase 2. However, I suspect Disney executives are closely watching developments at Universal Orlando and are planning accordingly. Fundamentally, WDW's demographics are different that UO's. IMHO, UO would have to open something that "steals" away the eight-and-under crowd before WDW would be significantly impacted by Universal. I suspect the typical five-year-old still dreams of visiting "Disney" and parents respond to this. Personally, I'm looking forward to Phase 2 but don't believe more Harry Potter is the magic elixir to propel Universal to #1. I think Universal has to crack the "eight-and-under nut" to do this.
 

jt04

Well-Known Member
I like strawberries...

Why do I say that? Because that has about as much relevance as your post I just quoted.

WDW is implementing a fix to the "cattle" problem. That is the subject we were discussing.

Universal needs to get moving. And since they are flush with Potter dollars I am shocked we are not seeing more cranes on site. You know, like we do at the MK.
 

GLaDOS

Well-Known Member
This is what I get for looking at threads before signing in.

Universal needs to get moving. And since they are flush with Potter dollars I am shocked we are not seeing more cranes on site. You know, like we do at the MK.

Yet again, here you are blathering on about nonsense. I take it you think because there aren't cranes on sight that Universal hasn't started on the Potter expansion. Which, of course would be so amazingly wrong. Like levels of wrong you can only reach.

Jaws closed 5 months ago. They've had to completely reclaim the land from the lagoon and make it suitable for new vertical construction in that time, as well as get government clearance for such construction.

And apparently you think 2 and a half years is long or something for an expansion of this size. Are you dumb or purposefully obtuse? Because honestly I'm not sure any more.

Fantasyland Expansion, built on land already ready for construction that's been sitting dormant for years, will take FIVE years to complete form date of announcement. Five years. 2009-2014. And it includes no new, groundbreaking E tickets and it's main attraction is a clone of one already operating, therefore decreasing lead time and the unknown variables.

Wizarding World of Harry Potter will include 2 E-tickets, one of which will connect it's two parks, as well as one that has been described by people here as making "Forbidden Journey look like It's a Small World", will be built on land that was a fully functioning E ticket and a land not 1/2 a year ago. And it will take 2 and 1/2 - 3 years. And you're telling me that's a long time. :rolleyes:

Not to mention this is far from the only project Universal has in the pipeline. There will be things opening at Universal before Potter opens in late 2014.
 

bubbles1812

Well-Known Member
WDW is implementing a fix to the "cattle" problem. That is the subject we were discussing.

Universal needs to get moving. And since they are flush with Potter dollars I am shocked we are not seeing more cranes on site. You know, like we do at the MK.

0_O / O o O...

1) Please tell me how they are fixing the cattle problem...Dumbo is the only one I will give you where Disney has actually maybe fixed the problem. And even that remains to be seen depending on how crowded they let the tent get. Other than that, with soarin', HM, virtually every popular ride, it's stayed the same. Just because interactive queues provide something to do doesn't mean the cattle problem has gone away

2) Um, I don't know if you missed the giant area in universal that has been cleared out but the buzz dozers are there and the cranes, if not there already will come. Not that you'd know, since you haven't been there not will you any time in the near future. Remember when I told you about #4? Yeah that was a classic number 4 from you.

3) I don't like Starbucks or really coffee at all :)
 

EpcoTim

Well-Known Member
Here I was, under the impression that Universal always had its sights on Disney. Now they're just beating them at their own game.
 

danlb_2000

Premium Member
If you count being pushed through like so much cattle then yes I guess that could be called "successful" design.

If the the Forbidden Journey queue is the way cattle are normally treated, the I have no problem being a cow! It is one of the best queues I have ever been through. Both times I rode the ride I actually wanted to spend more time in the queue then we had to.
 
No offense, but if you haven't gotten the points I've already made so far (In essence I've said the same thing over and over in different ways trying to get you to understand while you continually change your argument), then you aren't going to get it now. You have extreme tunnel vision so the chances that it will still become "verbal wack-a-mole" are great even if I did that. I've taken a look at the other convos you've had and it all goes the same way. They go like this...

1) Everyone has a good conversation going
2) You come in and make a statement that has (usually) pretty faulty logic or is just completely nonsensical
3) Everyone makes logical and rational posts pointing out the holes in your arguments
4) You refute said logical posts by either a) changing your argument several times b) picking and choosing the things you want to answer while disregarding entirely what the rest of a post says. c) You also tend to make up "facts" that can't be supported and from everyone elses' experiences show no evidence, none whatsoever of being true. "Someone" telling you FJ has magically started to have drastically reduced wait times and that it's clearly losing steam for example
5) People continue to make logical and rational posts poking giant holes in your arguments and you continue doing #4
6) You end by making a flippant remark disregarding absolutely anything that has been said in the "I'm right, everyone else is wrong" way and after that, I suspect you take another shot of pixie dust
7) And repeat...

Can we please make this a sticky? Title it "How to keep your sanity while dealing with JT04"
 

maxairmike

Well-Known Member
If the the Forbidden Journey queue is the way cattle are normally treated, the I have no problem being a cow! It is one of the best queues I have ever been through. Both times I rode the ride I actually wanted to spend more time in the queue then we had to.

When Disney creates a line that makes me wish they were running the ride a little less efficiently, then I'll eat the following words: If what we've seen is the best we can expect of NextGen style lines, I'd rather wait 1 1/2 hours alone in the heat of summer at Cedar Point for Maverick. I still wait in the regular line for Forbidden Journey quite often instead of hopping in the single rider line because I actually want to experience the regular line. Although the castle tour line is an ok substitute for days I want to power ride but still see the castle at least once or twice.
 

lazyboy97o

Well-Known Member
Fantasyland Expansion, built on land already ready for construction that's been sitting dormant for years, will take FIVE years to complete form date of announcement. Five years. 2009-2014. And it includes no new, groundbreaking E tickets and it's main attraction is a clone of one already operating, therefore decreasing lead time and the unknown variables.

Wizarding World of Harry Potter will include 2 E-tickets, one of which will connect it's two parks, as well as one that has been described by people here as making "Forbidden Journey look like It's a Small World", will be built on land that was a fully functioning E ticket and a land not 1/2 a year ago. And it will take 2 and 1/2 - 3 years. And you're telling me that's a long time. :rolleyes:

Not to mention this is far from the only project Universal has in the pipeline. There will be things opening at Universal before Potter opens in late 2014.
You're forgetting that New Fantasyland is actually based very much in old plan for Fantasyland dreamt up by the original Imagineers and Walt Disney himself! Super secret plans that point to so much more than we see. We just don't have insight and vision to see what is really happening at Disney and how Universal is spinning the hype machine to make a mountain out of a mole hill.

If the the Forbidden Journey queue is the way cattle are normally treated, the I have no problem being a cow! It is one of the best queues I have ever been through. Both times I rode the ride I actually wanted to spend more time in the queue then we had to.
While it is not everything, one can currently ask to take the Castle Tour which allows for exploring parts of the queue without the burden of holding up the line. It's a delightful little experience, one area where I will say Universal Orlando Resort is still lacking.
 

bubbles1812

Well-Known Member
You're forgetting that New Fantasyland is actually based very much in old plan for Fantasyland dreamt up by the original Imagineers and Walt Disney himself! Super secret plans that point to so much more than we see. We just don't have insight and vision to see what is really happening at Disney and how Universal is spinning the hype machine to make a mountain out of a mole hill.

I haven't seen Universal "hyping" anything in the sense that they haven't done more than hype their own rides. Which, just about any park including Disney does. It's not like the article that started this thread was published by Universal. Disney just didn't comment on it. And "we don't have the insight and vision to see what is really happening at Disney"...I've seen plenty of people on here with vision and some even with insight into what is actually happening at Disney... From my impressions, after new FLE opens, the chances MK will get anything big in the near or even intermediate future are very low. Maybe in another 10-15 years And if they had to go back to really old plans to start off new FLE...what exactly does that say about their creativity at the moment? Not saying it's terrible they went back to Walt's original plans but it'd be nice too if the current creative team came up with stuff on their own too.


While it is not everything, one can currently ask to take the Castle Tour which allows for exploring parts of the queue without the burden of holding up the line. It's a delightful little experience, one area where I will say Universal Orlando Resort is still lacking.
I actually do agree with you here though I wouldn't say the queue is a "little experience" unless you count all the interactive queues at Disney as little as well. But this is an area I think Universal could improve upon and likely will as money comes down the pipeline.
 

Register on WDWMAGIC. This sidebar will go away, and you'll see fewer ads.

Back
Top Bottom