NYT: "Universal....Takes Aim at Disney"

[Captain Chaos]

Here's the thing.. Disney fans should WANT Universal to succeed... They should WANT Universal to take a bite (whether big or small) out of Disney... That way WDW can GROW instead of remain stagnant.... Instead of resting on their laurels, which they are doing now... It may work for a little while, but it won't work for long... Universal succeeding is only good for EVERYONE...

 

[marni1971]

Wouldn't it have to be close to that for the entire WWoHP 2 project? I mean the Hogwarts Express is a pretty big undertaking, and Whylightbulb seems to imply it's a major attraction. Add in Gringotts, which I would assume will be just as impressive as Forbidden Journey, and the rest of the land and you have to reach 350. I mean, the last one was only 200 something and there was a lot of re purposing done and only one new ride built.

There's still possibly a contingency fund waiting. Potter phase one, and in particular FJ, came in for less than budgeted due to the economy and other reasons. Phase two has to equal or improve on every area from ride to food to details. Indeed, it's acknowledged by Uni suits FJ was heavy on ride, light on ride visuals. The Bank Coaster should be heavy on both.

 

[jt04]

On top of that, its not even possible for IOA to surpass MK in attendance due to the size differences between the parks. MK's capacity is like 70,000 people where IOA is under 50,000 (relative guesses, but something like that), unless MK had a severe drop in attendance

If the MK was as bad as many claim around here the numbers should be diminishing. Add to that all the scrims and construction walls and closures the last few years (due to a couple decades neglect) and it is somewhat amazing the MK has not seen a major drop off. And now the FLE is beginning to emerge. The MK saw its low point around 2007 and now the tide has turned. Universal had a moment in the sun and may have even had the MK in its headlights. But now it is obvious WDW will maintain the lead forever. Not that Uni should give up. Never give up Uni. Never give up.

 

[Orangelake555]

There's still possibly a contingency fund waiting. Potter phase one, and in particular FJ, came in for less than budgeted due to the economy and other reasons. Phase two has to equal or improve on every area from ride to food to details. Indeed, it's acknowledged by Uni suits FJ was heavy on ride, light on ride visuals. The Bank Coaster should be heavy on both.

Do you or maybe whylightbulb knowthe sizing for the bank coaster yet? I am a big guy but fit into every ride but FJ. I would really like to ride this new one

 

[bubbles1812]

If the MK was as bad as many claim around here the numbers should be diminishing. Add to that all the scrims and construction walls and closures the last few years (due to a couple decades neglect) and it is somewhat amazing the MK has not seen a major drop off. And now the FLE is beginning to emerge. The MK saw its low point around 2007 and now the tide has turned. Universal had a moment in the sun and may have even had the MK in its headlights. But now it is obvious WDW will maintain the lead forever. Not that Uni should give up. Never give up Uni. Never give up.

Ahhh jt....you're back with another nonsensical post. No one was ever claiming the MK was bad. You are exaggerating. And how is it obvious that WDW will maintain it's lead forever? New FLE is great and I'm excited about it but look at what they are adding at the end of the day: An extra spinner on a ride that has been there for years and years, one new restaurant, another freaking M&G, and one ride...I'm sure the Mine Train ride will be fun but I haven't seen anything thus far to suggest it will be revolutionary in any way (Sorry but I don't count cars swinging from side to side as revolutionary.) Will the theming be great in the new FLE area? Yes it will. Disney does know how to theme areas. I'm not arguing that. But then Universal demonstrated they can too with HP...and it seems like they are going revolutionary with the new train ride. And I have great confidence the Gringotts ride will probably blow the Mine Train out of the water. And those are just two of the things that have been announced...they will be adding more immersive shops, and heck, who knows, maybe even another Ollivander's type experience. I'm guessing another restaurant will go in as well. But even beyond that, it will be another very very well themed area on par with what Disney has been doing as evidenced by what they did with Potter 1.0 (which again, I laugh and can't take you seriously when you judge it considering you've never been there).

 

[jt04]

Ahhh jt....you're back with another nonsensical post. No one was ever claiming the MK was bad. You are exaggerating. And how is it obvious that WDW will maintain it's lead forever? New FLE is great and I'm excited about but look at what they are adding at the end of the day: An extra spinner on a ride that has been there for years and years, one new restaurant, another M&G, and one ride...I'm sure the Mine Train ride will be fun but I haven't seen anything thus far to suggest it will be revolutionary in any way (Sorry but I don't count cars swinging from side to side as revolutionary.) Will the theming be great in the new FLE area? Yes it will. Disney does know how to theme areas. I'm not arguing that. But then Universal demonstrated they can too with HP...and it seems like they are going revolutionary with the new train ride. And I have great confidence the Gringotts ride will probably blow the Mine Train out of the water. But even beyond that, it will be another very very well themed area as evidenced by what they did with Potter 1.0 (which again, I laugh at you and can't take you seriously when you judge it considering you've never been there).

Don't forget the refurbed Haunted Mansion, HoP, BTMRR, Tiki Room, an essentially all new MSUSA, refurbed Cinderella's Castle, new Tangled environment and the lingering possibility Tomorrowland will get a makeover that actually accomplishes the goals of the previous overhaul. Now CBJ is getting its modernization and rumors are Pirates and the JC are next. You kind of left all that out. And obviously things are just getting started.

So I have looked at as many pictures of the FLE as possible. Same for Carsland. I am specifically noticing that BatB, Mermaid and RSR have something in common. No obvious signs of a show building.

Cause that is how WDI rolls when given the budget necessary.

 

[bubbles1812]

Don't forget the refurbed Haunted Mansion, HoP, BTMRR, Tiki Room, an essentially all new MSUSA, refurbed Cinderella's Castle, new Tangled environment and the lingering possibility Tomorrowland will get a makeover that actually accomplishes the goals of the previous overhaul. Now CBJ is getting its modernization and rumors are Pirates and the JC are next. You kind of left all that out. And obviously things are just getting started.

So I have looked at as many pictures of the FLE as possible. Same for Carsland. I am specifically noticing that BatB, Mermaid and RSR have something in common. No obvious signs of a show building.

Cause that is how WDI rolls when given the budget necessary.

And yet, as others have pointed out...Disney has many show building issues. Including some on your all new Main Street. Though it's amusing...you seem to give MK/WDW a pass on every show building issue while being ultra-critical of Universal. And MK still has some major issues to address...Splash Mountain needs some rehab desperately and Peter Pan could use some new paint. Small World is beginning to get grimy again. Tommorrow Land like you mentioned (and how that is only a lingering possibility). I could go on but this thread is not about criticizing the MK.

And yes all those have been refurbed but you do realize Universal is doing some very similar things? That not all the money they are going to be putting into the parks over the next 5 years is all going to be funneled directly to HP 2.0? A good chunk but not all. That they are going to be cleaning up their parks and refurbing or putting in new rides? Look at what they just did with Transformers.

Also, yes WDI can still roll but you'd think if they had the necessary budget, they'd add a RSR in WDW. Since it's not going to be at WDW any time soon, it's pretty irrelevant to this thread.

 

[marni1971]

Don't forget the refurbed Haunted Mansion, HoP, BTMRR, Tiki Room, an essentially all new MSUSA, refurbed Cinderella's Castle, new Tangled environment and the lingering possibility Tomorrowland will get a makeover that actually accomplishes the goals of the previous overhaul. Now CBJ is getting its modernization and rumors are Pirates and the JC are next. You kind of left all that out. And obviously things are just getting started.
.

WDI can still roll, as we all agree. That isnt the issue. The issue is TDO letting them. But looking at your list I'm afraid it isn't as clear cut.

HM and HoP - both driven by Holmes ego.

BTM - no choice. Do it or soon close it. And aside from ride related its pretty poor on the theme front. So much of the original story is still missing.

Tiki - no choice. In effect it was as cheap to do this and get the praise for it.

New MSUSA? What used to be regular maintainence? For what is now in essence one generic mall?

TLand? Wish. Space Mountain shows what's happened there. Maybe they'll do that properly first. Maybe.

Pirates was never completed in 2005. And still isn't.

The JC is crying for help. It'll empty itself soon if nothing is done. As it was the new deck HAD to be laid. The old one was literally collapsing.

It's still good. But once was and still should be great.

 

[CJR]

I love the fact that Universal is finding success. The new energy it is bringing to all of Orlando's theme parks is excellent. Universal is so much better than it used to be, Disney is fixing itself (finally), and even Sea World is trying to remain competitive. The people who benefit from competition the most are the consumers or in this case, us. While I would hate to see Disney get hurt, by forcing them to be compeititive, it will only make our experience better. Plus, it's not like Disney is really hurting when they are able to raise the price of admission to $89. They'll be hurting when they actually lower the price and I doubt I'll ever see that.

 

[jt04]

And yet, as others have pointed out...Disney has many show building issues. Including some on your all new Main Street. Though it's amusing...you seem to give MK/WDW a pass on every show building issue while being ultra-critical of Universal. And MK still has some major issues to address...Splash Mountain needs some rehab desperately and Peter Pan could use some new paint. Small World is beginning to get grimy again. Tommorrow Land like you mentioned (and how that is only a lingering possibility). I could go on but this thread is not about criticizing the MK.

All pre-Lasseter issues. For the purposes of these discussions can we keep it to the Iger/Lasseter era? They can't close the entire park. When things are neglected sometimes it means something bigger is on the way. Pan being the perfect example.

And yes all those have been refurbed but you do realize Universal is doing some very similar things? That not all the money they are going to be putting into the parks over the next 5 years is all going to be funneled directly to HP 2.0? A good chunk but not all. That they are going to be cleaning up their parks and refurbing or putting in new rides? Look at what they just did with Transformers.

Also, yes WDI can still roll but you'd think if they had the necessary budget, they'd add a RSR in WDW. Since it's not going to be at WDW any time soon, it's pretty irrelevant to this thread.

Just because I prais what TWDC is doing does not mean I am critsizing Uni.
WDW is getting AvLand which is rumored to be on the scale of Carsland. You must not have heard about that.

WDI can still roll, as we all agree. That isnt the issue. The issue is TDO letting them. But looking at your list I'm afraid it isn't as clear cut.

HM and HoP - both driven by Holmes ego.

BTM - no choice. Do it or soon close it. And aside from ride related its pretty poor on the theme front. So much of the original story is still missing.

Tiki - no choice. In effect it was as cheap to do this and get the praise for it.

New MSUSA? What used to be regular maintainence? For what is now in essence one generic mall?

TLand? Wish. Space Mountain shows what's happened there. Maybe they'll do that properly first. Maybe.

Pirates was never completed in 2005. And still isn't.

The JC is crying for help. It'll empty itself soon if nothing is done. As it was the new deck HAD to be laid. The old one was literally collapsing.

It's still good. But once was and still should be great.

It will be again.

I thought we established the TDO has little to no say about big capital projects. The MK was so neglected under Eisner that it is no wonder it has been such a disruptive process getting everything turned around. It is undeniable and unstoppable now though. The carping from some (not you) likely didn't help the process. But if some people think it helps.......

 

[lazyboy97o]

Here's the thing.. Disney fans should WANT Universal to succeed... They should WANT Universal to take a bite (whether big or small) out of Disney... That way WDW can GROW instead of remain stagnant.... Instead of resting on their laurels, which they are doing now... It may work for a little while, but it won't work for long... Universal succeeding is only good for EVERYONE...

There is the very real possibility that Walt Disney World does not recognize the changes. Plenty of once undisputed kings of an industry have become shells of themselves or cease to exist because management refused recognize what everybody else saw happening with the competition. It does not happen over night, but it has happened and just because Disney is magical doesn't mean they actually run on magic. Walt Disney World is only sacred to The Walt Disney Company so long as it makes money.

 

[baymenxpac]

There is the very real possibility that Walt Disney World does not recognize the changes. Plenty of once undisputed kings of an industry have become shells of themselves or cease to exist because management refused recognize what everybody else saw happening with the competition. It does not happen over night, but it has happened and just because Disney is magical doesn't mean they actually run on magic. Walt Disney World is only sacred to The Walt Disney Company so long as it makes money.

exactly. i wonder how many people thought in 1996 that they'd own 6 apple products.

 

[HenryMystic]

exactly. i wonder how many people thought in 1996 that they'd own 6 apple products.

Zero. Point. Zero.

 

[Cornballman]

JT you must be joking....You are comparing refurbs of those rides to the new ones that uni is proposing? Saying that by doing the NECESSARY maintenance on those rides that should have been done a long time ago is equal to adding a completely immersive experience like WWHP? I love Disney. Always have and always will. But the first time I walked into the WWHP it was breathtaking. The attention to detail was as good if not better than anything that has been done at WDW. And FJ was one of the best rides I have ever been on. PERIOD. You cannot continue with your ridiculous arguments when you haven't even been there.

Oh and stop changing your strategies. By doing that you are coming off as even more of a fool than your posts suggest. Stick to one story and continue on that path. Don't change because you seem to be beat in the argument dept. Bubbles - 400...JT -0

 

[Kiff]

Space Mountain shows what's happened there. Maybe they'll do that properly first. Maybe.

That would go a long way to helping out MK. Right now the East side is almost not worth visiting for me. Still enjoy a spin around the "badly in need of an update" CoP but a trip on SM is just too painful. Less physical pain (mind you it's still there) but more the pain of how close we were to getting a SM for the 21st century.

 

[bubbles1812]

JT you must be joking....You are comparing refurbs of those rides to the new ones that uni is proposing? Saying that by doing the NECESSARY maintenance on those rides that should have been done a long time ago is equal to adding a completely immersive experience like WWHP? I love Disney. Always have and always will. But the first time I walked into the WWHP it was breathtaking. The attention to detail was as good if not better than anything that has been done at WDW. And FJ was one of the best rides I have ever been on. PERIOD. You cannot continue with your ridiculous arguments when you haven't even been there.

Oh and stop changing your strategies. By doing that you are coming off as even more of a fool than your posts suggest. Stick to one story and continue on that path. Don't change because you seem to be beat in the argument dept. Bubbles - 400...JT -0

Thanks! I try to be logical and rational.

 

[menamechris]

We will just have to disagree here. I am sure it succeeded beyond their most optimistic projections. However, I am not sure we have seen the inertia they were hoping for. The buzz died down rather quickly and they approved phase 2 quicker than I would have guessed.

An additional 30% jump in attendance last year is what you call a buzz dying down rather quickly? Really? 30% jump...one year. In addition to the previous year's rocketing attendance number. Universal has been so successful with Potter that they gave employees a bonus across the board in 2011. They went from being bankrupt to having cash to throw at thousands of employees...

 

[jt04]

An additional 30% jump in attendance last year is what you call a buzz dying down rather quickly? Really? 30% jump...one year. In addition to the previous year's rocketing attendance number. Universal has been so successful with Potter that they gave employees a bonus across the board in 2011. They went from being bankrupt to having cash to throw at thousands of employees...

2010 was a partial year wheras 2011 was a full year so the meaningful numbers will be for 2012 to determine trends. I have heard there are times FJ is virtually a walk-on now. At the same time it is still common for Soarin' to have a two hour wait. And that was before TT shut down. Do you really want to compare attendence numbers, wait times etc? I wouldn't think so.

 

[ChrisFL]

2010 was a partial year wheras 2011 was a full year so the meaningful numbers will be for 2012 to determine trends. I have heard there are times FJ is virtually a walk-on now. At the same time it is still common for Soarin' to have a two hour wait. And that was before TT shut down. Do you really want to compare attendence numbers, wait times etc? I wouldn't think so.

So you're backpedaling....ok

Soarin vs. FJ? Seriously? You're going with that argument?

Well, ok.

What's the guests per hour ridership of Soarin' vs. FJ?

Also, FJ is a walk-on for single riders recently, because of the changes they made to the queue, I haven't seen anything about it being walk-on for everyone.

Soarin' is good for riders from 3 to 90 years old, FJ clearly isn't. You can't compare the two.

 

[disney fan 13]

2010 was a partial year wheras 2011 was a full year so the meaningful numbers will be for 2012 to determine trends. I have heard there are times FJ is virtually a walk-on now. At the same time it is still common for Soarin' to have a two hour wait. And that was before TT shut down. Do you really want to compare attendence numbers, wait times etc? I wouldn't think so.

Uh... that is major BS. I was there two weeks ago and the wait was over an hour long (both days).