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Not good but saw it coming
- Thread starter beyondthepalace
- Start date
my thoughts go to the family too. But maybe we shouldn't make a huge deal out of this. Besides Haunted Mansion has 999 dead people in it :brick::hurl:
wannab@dis
Well-Known Member
Gotta agree with you. That's how I'm reading his posts also.jaredliu said:
dxer07002 said:
dxer07002 said:
dxer07002 said:
While it's a horrible tradgedy... there's not enough information for any of us to be able to form an opinion at this time. There's been deaths on thrill rides many times and it will continue to happen. Sometimes the cause is the ride. Sometimes it's due to a pre-existing condition. Sometimes it just takes time to figure out what happened. We need to wait until the people in a place to look at the facts investigate all possible conclusions.
For those blaming the attraction or blaming the lady, give it a rest. At this time both conclusions have very little merit. Furthermore, anyone using this tradgedy as a bullypulpit to get rid of M:S... well, that's just downright despicable.
mousermerf
Account Suspended
High blood pressure is extremely common though - it can occur during the day at anytime in your life from stress or other stimulus, to anyone.
Saying you shouldn't ride an attraction with basic "high blood pressure" is like saying "Don't ride if you're left handed."
Heart disease (typically a more sever version of high blood pressure) and other major warnings are understandable.. but HBP is so common it's almost silly.
Saying you shouldn't ride an attraction with basic "high blood pressure" is like saying "Don't ride if you're left handed."
Heart disease (typically a more sever version of high blood pressure) and other major warnings are understandable.. but HBP is so common it's almost silly.
Pongo
New Member
TurnipHead said:
They're there. As another poster said, ten warnings before the actual safety spiel. If that's not overkill, I don't know what is. In this case, overkill isn't working, obviously.
BTW - You're supposed to feel extreme pressure on your chest. That's the point of the ride :wave:
Connor002
Active Member
Please, allow me to play devil's advocate for a minute.
Mission Space is not nearly as intense in terms of actually forces acting upon the body as compared to other thrill rides. Most of it's intensity lies not in the system's settings, but in the execution. It's physiological thrill. How many warning did you receive? How much hype did you hear? More than enough, I'll say, but in reality, M:S is just a dressed-up centrifuge, and a rather tame one at that (as far as centrifuges go).
Let's take this example: Have you ever seen or ridden the attractions at your local fair, carnival, or amusement park? Well, they go by many names ("Hell Hole," "Gravitron," "Starship 2000"), but the concept is the same: achievement of hypergravity, otherwise known as increased pressure on the body in the form of gravitational forces, measured in G forces. Now, let's look at this logically: M:S is a "death trap," so obviously it must be the most intense centrifuge for civilians!
Well, no. NASA reports that Gravitorns have been documented at as much as 3.0 g. Other sources suggest up to 4.0 g. Mission: Space has been confirmed to reach no higher than 2.0 g. For reference, Space Launches are around 3.2 g at launch. (And just to thorough out another interesting fact, a car at 30 MPH running into a tree would be approximately 30 g.)
Yes, that Gravitorn down at the fair could be as intense as a space launch.
Mission: Space not only stays far below this mark, it most likely was/is held to the highest standards in the industry.
So, what is it that makes M:S different? It's Disney! The Big Dog! (Or perhaps more appropriately) The Big Cheese! *In 1998 there were over 20 serious, reported accidents at amusement parks, but guess which one got the most attention? "One dead, three injured after Disneyland accidents," that's what.
Now then... I think I've rambled enough, and I'm sure much of what's above could have been stated better, but I'm afraid I tire.
And, I case I missed anything, here are the sites I backed up my facts with:
http://exploration.nasa.gov/articles/07feb_stronggravity.html
http://www.ride-extravaganza.com/rides/gravitron/
http://hyperphysics.phy-astr.gsu.edu/Hbase/carcr2.html
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gee_force
http://www.rideaccidents.com/1998.html#dec24*
*Not completely accurate; does not include every accident
Mission Space is not nearly as intense in terms of actually forces acting upon the body as compared to other thrill rides. Most of it's intensity lies not in the system's settings, but in the execution. It's physiological thrill. How many warning did you receive? How much hype did you hear? More than enough, I'll say, but in reality, M:S is just a dressed-up centrifuge, and a rather tame one at that (as far as centrifuges go).
Let's take this example: Have you ever seen or ridden the attractions at your local fair, carnival, or amusement park? Well, they go by many names ("Hell Hole," "Gravitron," "Starship 2000"), but the concept is the same: achievement of hypergravity, otherwise known as increased pressure on the body in the form of gravitational forces, measured in G forces. Now, let's look at this logically: M:S is a "death trap," so obviously it must be the most intense centrifuge for civilians!
Well, no. NASA reports that Gravitorns have been documented at as much as 3.0 g. Other sources suggest up to 4.0 g. Mission: Space has been confirmed to reach no higher than 2.0 g. For reference, Space Launches are around 3.2 g at launch. (And just to thorough out another interesting fact, a car at 30 MPH running into a tree would be approximately 30 g.)
Yes, that Gravitorn down at the fair could be as intense as a space launch.
Mission: Space not only stays far below this mark, it most likely was/is held to the highest standards in the industry.
So, what is it that makes M:S different? It's Disney! The Big Dog! (Or perhaps more appropriately) The Big Cheese! *In 1998 there were over 20 serious, reported accidents at amusement parks, but guess which one got the most attention? "One dead, three injured after Disneyland accidents," that's what.
Now then... I think I've rambled enough, and I'm sure much of what's above could have been stated better, but I'm afraid I tire.
And, I case I missed anything, here are the sites I backed up my facts with:
http://exploration.nasa.gov/articles/07feb_stronggravity.html
http://www.ride-extravaganza.com/rides/gravitron/
http://hyperphysics.phy-astr.gsu.edu/Hbase/carcr2.html
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gee_force
http://www.rideaccidents.com/1998.html#dec24*
*Not completely accurate; does not include every accident
CaptainMichael
Well-Known Member
This isn't a Mission: Space sign, but this is from Expedition Everest:TurnipHead said:
wannab@dis
Well-Known Member
Connor... I'm not quoting you, but wanted to add a little to your post about G forces.
Many coasters have higher than 4G's. However, those G's are not 'sustained' and actually do not affect you as much as the sustained 2G's. I'll have to do some searching, but I've read some articles about the effects of sustained G's. While M:S doesn't have HIGH G's, it does have sustained G's.... (of course, this is true because space launches do also -- hence the reason for the intense training and a big emphasis on the health of astronauts.)
Many coasters have higher than 4G's. However, those G's are not 'sustained' and actually do not affect you as much as the sustained 2G's. I'll have to do some searching, but I've read some articles about the effects of sustained G's. While M:S doesn't have HIGH G's, it does have sustained G's.... (of course, this is true because space launches do also -- hence the reason for the intense training and a big emphasis on the health of astronauts.)
Pongo
New Member
wannab@dis said:
There was a series in the Florida Today a few months back that was all about G forces and the safety of central Florida roller caosters (though they mainly focused on rides like Mission: Space).
To be honest, the articles were terrible. I actually had to write in a letter to the editor to correct much of the information in the articles. It was even published. I may be able to find a link to the articles.
EDIT: I can't.
I'll agree with you that it is true the media goes out of their way to attack the industry leader (Disney) with every accident…but this isn't likely to change, and does Disney really want to deal with a death (even if from a pre-existing condition that is simply triggered by the 'physiological' or 'actual' forces on the ride....after all, it doesn't really matter what type of force it is, the fact is they are causing deaths…) every few months?
EpcotMark
Active Member
I dont think we will see any changes in the ride from this because that communicates that there "is" something wrong, which there isn't. What needs to be done is more warning signs in Foreign Languages for some of the rougher rides. This is something I was insistant on when I worked at Disney back in the day.
But I sincerely believe there will be NO major changes to the "speed" or whatever else.
But I sincerely believe there will be NO major changes to the "speed" or whatever else.
Testtrack321
Well-Known Member
Before anyone posts, can we all get out of the chair, go to the local community college, take a physics course, then come back and post?
M:S is hardly as "intense" as other rides, it's Gs aren't that bad, etc. But a combination of laying down, sustained Gs, and the subwoofer make it much worse than it is.
ANYWAY
The giant red ball with the blue spinny logo will stay for a long time to come. What's inside might change, but I hope the spirit of space flight will remain, something I fell in love with when I was young.
M:S is hardly as "intense" as other rides, it's Gs aren't that bad, etc. But a combination of laying down, sustained Gs, and the subwoofer make it much worse than it is.
ANYWAY
The giant red ball with the blue spinny logo will stay for a long time to come. What's inside might change, but I hope the spirit of space flight will remain, something I fell in love with when I was young.
CPimagineer86
New Member
imagineer boy said:WOW! two out of 9 million people that rode it have died! This really is one death trap of a ride! It must be closed immediately.
My sarcasm sense is tingling...
Don't get me wrong, I am sorry for the family's loss. However, if the odds are dying on M:S are 1 in 4,500,000 then there are a lot of other things I'll be lookin out for first...
Odds of fatally slipping in bath or shower: 2,232 to 1
Odds of drowning in a bathtub: 685,000 to 1
Odds of being killed sometime in the next year in any sort of transportation accident: 77 to 1
Odds of being killed by lightning: 2,320,000 to 1
Odds of being murdered: 18,000 to 1
Odds of being considered possessed by Satan: 7,000 to 1
Odds of winning an Academy Award: 11,500 to 1
Odds of spotting a UFO today: 3,000,000 to 1
Chance of dying from contact with a venomous animal or plant: 1 in 3,441,325
MickeyTigg
New Member
My sympathies go out to her family.
mousermerf
Account Suspended
I think the problem is going to be that to the general public, splitting hairs saying the ride didn't malfunction but rather the forces it created contributed to two deaths isn't going to be pretty.
The 4yo's death was caused by stress. This stress could have come from any sort of stressor, but as he died on the ride, it's easy to surmize it was the ride. Fluke, we move on..
But, now we have another person, who seems to hav died from stress caused by the attraction. She may indeed have been as prone to problems as the boy, but not we really have to question if subjecting people to these forces en masse is the a good idea anymore.
How many people would have to die for the statistics to be signifigant?
It's like an uncontrolable risk now - how does one know they have such an issue? I think Disney no mater what will be forced to make some sort of change, no matter how logic spins it, people are not going to trust the ride.
The 4yo's death was caused by stress. This stress could have come from any sort of stressor, but as he died on the ride, it's easy to surmize it was the ride. Fluke, we move on..
But, now we have another person, who seems to hav died from stress caused by the attraction. She may indeed have been as prone to problems as the boy, but not we really have to question if subjecting people to these forces en masse is the a good idea anymore.
How many people would have to die for the statistics to be signifigant?
It's like an uncontrolable risk now - how does one know they have such an issue? I think Disney no mater what will be forced to make some sort of change, no matter how logic spins it, people are not going to trust the ride.