NextGen / FP+ / Magic Band. The official truth starts to appear

[cmeller]

That all depends on how much time you're willing to put into a park on any given day, how many FP's you plan to get, and what the respective FP windows are like for the attractions you want, because that will have an impact on how many you could conceivably get in a day. If all the windows are 40-60 minutes out from the time you get them, you could likely get 5-6 or more in a long enough day. Further than that though you might be waiting 1-2 hours to get your next FastPass.

Well if it's already going to be 5-6 max, I guess I'm ok with being able to reserve my 4 most important attractions I want to see and stand in line for the rest.

Does anyone know if we will be able to link with our other family members to request the same time window for our FP+. Example: Family 1 wants to get a FP+ for BTM, Splash Mountain, Under the Sea, Haunted Mansion Family 2 wants a FP+ for BTM, Splash Mountain, Space Mountain, and Buzz Lightyear..would they be able to make sure they get the same time for the overlapping attractions (BTM, Splash Mountain)?

 

[RandomPrincess]

Does anyone know if we will be able to link with our other family members to request the same time window for our FP+. Example: Family 1 wants to get a FP+ for BTM, Splash Mountain, Under the Sea, Haunted Mansion Family 2 wants a FP+ for BTM, Splash Mountain, Space Mountain, and Buzz Lightyear..would they be able to make sure they get the same time for the overlapping attractions (BTM, Splash Mountain)?

You are supposed to be able to that with the new My Disney Experience website. I know people in the test groups for FP+ complained there was no way to sync the times with their friends and family.

 

[TRONorail10]

It used to be biometric, some years ago you put multiple fingers down and the distances where measured. Now, with one finger I am pretty sure it is fingerprint.

It's not a fingerprint. Disney doesn't have records of people's fingers, otherwise I'm sure a lot of people with warrants would have been arrested just for walking into a theme park.

 

[DisneyLeo18]

My friend is booking a Spring Trip to WDW and she shared this email from her travel agent with me.

We are still taking classes and learning about all this new information, the Magic Bands, the fast passes and the 60 day online checkin will be happening. We heard probably as early as Feb. It will be in stages, but we're not sure yet how that will be done. We're learning the same as you and their are still some technical problems that will occur periodically because they are updating the web-site. You have to have tickets on your Reservation to be able to book your fast passes. You can only book up to 4 at the Magic Kingdom and 3 in the other three Theme Parks. You can not hop from park to park on the Fast passes. They can only be at 1 park each day. If you choose to do the fast passes they will be on the Magic bands. The Magic bands will be able to be personalized and you will be able to do all of this on the Web-site. colors come in green, pink, blue ,grey, yellow and red. They are removable also, you will be able to put up to 10 letters for a name. It can just be a nick name if you want but has to be Disney appropriate. I hope this answers some of your questions. As far as seeing your dining. You will need to remember what phone number you used to book them, Yours can also be brought up by your email address . Once you pull all of your dining you can add it to your itinerary on the My Disney Experience.

Alright, so I buy my tickets through my job since I get a discount. Sounds like if I do that, I will not get any fastpasses. Awesome.


Between that, and I can't park hop with FP (I rarely just hit one park per day) I'm less and less inclined to visit.

 

[stevehousse]

This whole thing sounds like a mess! We are going in the beginning of May and the one thing I want information on is the photopass+ system now that it integrated into the magic +??? The only info available so far was that if u get the pp+, you will recieve the magic bands??? Now there are so many questions that arise with that statement;

1. If I sign up for pp+, are these photo only magic bands that the pictures get saved to? Or r these normal bands that will enable us to have FP+ perks?

2. Does everyone get a band in our party or is there just one magic band that saves pictures?

3.once I have signed up and paid in advance for my photo package, will they send out information about being able to do the FP+ and book my attractions early or will I arrive to pick up my bands and be told that I can use the bands with FP+? Thus making the system of being able to book in advance pointless!!!

4. If I have magic bands for PP+, yet I want to use he regular FP system is that allowed? Or because I have a band I can only do FP+?

We usually stay off property so this whole magic+ crap is really putting our plans in a frenzy! I have been to wdw numerous times and we know how to work the parks! This new system changes everything we have been so accustomed to for so long! I really hope our vacation runs as smooth a possible and I am praying that this crap isn't in full effect when we go!

 

[ParentsOf4]

We usually stay off property so this whole magic+ crap is really putting our plans in a frenzy! I have been to wdw numerous times and we know how to work the parks! This new system changes everything we have been so accustomed to for so long! I really hope our vacation runs as smooth a possible and I am praying that this crap isn't in full effect when we go!

The current FP system provides equal access to everyone. Rich or poor, onsite or offsite, traveler or local, everyone has an equal chance at FP.

With NextGen, Disney will be able to correlate a tremendous amount of data. (Gaps in their data collection and storage systems made it difficult to centralize this information in the past.) How often do you visit? How much do you spend when you visit? Where are you staying? What is your income bracket? Disney will have this information and more before deciding which FP+ to offer you at your 60-day window.

Demand for the "good" FP+ will far exceed supply, especially at Epcot, DHS, and DAK, where there are significantly fewer marque attractions. Disney will have to ration FP+ for attractions such as EE, Soarin', and TSM. It would be naive to think Disney won't use the information it now has integrated together to determine who gets preferred access to these "good" FP+.

I'm not suggesting all TSM FP+ will go to Deluxe Resort guests. However, it would be bad business for Disney not to keep its "best" customers happy. With approximately 10,000 Deluxe Resort rooms representing potentially 40,000 Deluxe Resort guests each day, that's a lot of people to keep happy. It seems unrealistic to expect Disney to offer the same FP+ options to its Deluxe Resort guests as its day guests.

Like it or not, the WDW theme parks are slowly becoming a place for the rich, or at least those who are willing to spend as if they are rich. Of course, with ticket prices increasing the way they have since Iger took charge in 2005, we already knew that.

 

[SirLink]

The current FP system provides equal access to everyone. Rich or poor, onsite or offsite, traveler or local, everyone has an equal chance at FP.

With NextGen, Disney will be able to correlate a tremendous amount of data. (Gaps in their data collection and storage systems made it difficult to centralize this information in the past.) How often do you visit? How much do you spend when you visit? Where are you staying? What is your income bracket? Disney will have this information and more before deciding which FP+ to offer you at your 60-day window.

Demand for the "good" FP+ will far exceed supply, especially at Epcot, DHS, and DAK, where there are significantly fewer marque attractions. Disney will have to ration FP+ for attractions such as EE, Soarin', and TSM. It would be naive to think Disney won't use the information it now has integrated together to determine who gets preferred access to these "good" FP+.

I'm not suggesting all TSM FP+ will go to Deluxe Resort guests. However, it would be bad business for Disney not to keep its "best" customers happy. With approximately 10,000 Deluxe Resort rooms representing potentially 40,000 Deluxe Resort guests each day, that's a lot of people to keep happy. It seems unrealistic to expect Disney to offer the same FP+ options to its Deluxe Resort guests as its day guests.

Like it or not, the WDW theme parks are slowly becoming a place for the rich, or at least those who are willing to spend as if they are rich. Of course, with ticket prices increasing the way they have since Iger took charge in 2005, we already knew that.

I would surmise that MK will allow you to have 1 more FP+, as opposed to Epcot/DHS/DAK will be the standard 3.

I would also surmise that Disney will likely, not positively, offer guests staying at Deluxe resorts first crack at Fantasmic/Wishes/Illuminations/any other parades/any other spectaculars.

Now we kinda know that those two issues could of been fixed by more attractions at Epcot/DHS/DAK. Especially seen as they set out the roadmap and new full well that there was an attraction deficit at 3 of the parks.

Also of note FP+ could seriously choke out the need for doing maintenance in the parks, when the WANT for needing attractions as well as counter service operating, is more important to the executives...

...just makes you think...

 

[sbkline]

I really don't like this idea of having to reserve fastpasses two months out. That is just way to . Truthfully, I wonder how successful this is going to be, though. The people on this site are pretty hardcore and I can see many of these folks wanting to reserve a ride two months out. But, IMO, the average WDW visitor is your "once in a lifetime" visitor...people who simply decide that "this year's" family vacation will be to WDW. Most of those folks (again, I could be wrong) just book a trip, go and have fun, and don't get into all this overplanning stuff. So I'm really hoping that this thing will be a big flop. I really don't want to have to skip the best rides simply because I am not willing to book a ride time two months out. But I guess if I have to get used to going without most of the current fastpass rides, then I'll just have to make the best of it...

 

[WildRide12]

I find this curious, I don't live in Florida, so answer me this, does Universal have a Florida Annual Pass? Because if they do, then I don't think WDW would get rid of it as it has been pointed out to me several times on this site (even though i don't agree) that whatever one park does the other will as well. So by that logic as long as Universal offers an AP for Florida residents, then WDW won't get rid of it.

Get out of here with your logic and reason. This is the nail on the head. As long as the competing business offers great local incentive then it's competition will do the same to attract the same type of guest. I live in Orlando. I have a PAP to WDW, not Universal. They won't alienate this base because we go in January and April and spend hundreds on food, pins, and drinks over the course of that time. When one fast food joint came out with the dollar menu, everyone had a value menu. It's foolish to eliminate that base, folks are just looking for the new thing to be angry at. Personally, I hope we get NextGen as PAPs. I look forward to technology helping my girlfriend and I plan perfect park hopping days. And the person who thinks this is a burden is just looking to be ornery for the sake of it. NextGen has serious potential.

 

[disneyeater]

The current FP system provides equal access to everyone. Rich or poor, onsite or offsite, traveler or local, everyone has an equal chance at FP.

With NextGen, Disney will be able to correlate a tremendous amount of data. (Gaps in their data collection and storage systems made it difficult to centralize this information in the past.) How often do you visit? How much do you spend when you visit? Where are you staying? What is your income bracket? Disney will have this information and more before deciding which FP+ to offer you at your 60-day window.

Demand for the "good" FP+ will far exceed supply, especially at Epcot, DHS, and DAK, where there are significantly fewer marque attractions. Disney will have to ration FP+ for attractions such as EE, Soarin', and TSM. It would be naive to think Disney won't use the information it now has integrated together to determine who gets preferred access to these "good" FP+.

I'm not suggesting all TSM FP+ will go to Deluxe Resort guests. However, it would be bad business for Disney not to keep its "best" customers happy. With approximately 10,000 Deluxe Resort rooms representing potentially 40,000 Deluxe Resort guests each day, that's a lot of people to keep happy. It seems unrealistic to expect Disney to offer the same FP+ options to its Deluxe Resort guests as its day guests.

Like it or not, the WDW theme parks are slowly becoming a place for the rich, or at least those who are willing to spend as if they are rich. Of course, with ticket prices increasing the way they have since Iger took charge in 2005, we already knew that.

 

[Buried20KLeague]

Tell you what... I'm willing to put up $20 that he's correct... You willing to put up $20 that he's not?

 

[disneyeater]

Tell you what... I'm willing to put up $20 that he's correct... You willing to put up $20 that he's not?

I am willing to put up $20 that we will never truely know the distribution of the FP+

 

[ParentsOf4]

I am willing to put up $20 that we will never truely know the distribution of the FP+

FP distribution, like attraction capacity, is one WDW's many carefully guarded pieces of information

It's possible the public will never know the FP+ distribution algorithm. However, once the system is fully deployed, it should be possible to observe trends. Are people staying onsite generally receiving more access to "good" FP+? Do Deluxe Resorts guests appear to have generally better access than Value Resort guests?

It will be interesting to see how this unfolds over time. I strongly suspect FP+ Version 1.0 is not going to be the last version. Disney should have a long-term strategy in place to evolve FP+ to reach their ultimate goal. People accept change but only in small doses. Too big of a change all at once could rock the boat. Disney does not want to rock the boat.

Disney already has eliminated the 3rd Evening Extra Magic Hours (EMH). January's EMH suggest WDW may be cutting back even further on EMH. EMH are one of the primary incentives for paying extra to stay onsite. If WDW curtails EMH further (a great way to reduce opex), what will it provide in its place? If Disney simply reduces EMH without some other means to encourage guests to stay onsite, WDW occupancy rates will decline. They already are down to 78%, a disturbingly low number given WDW's historical occupancy rates. What is Disney going to do to improve those numbers?

Disney just spent $1-to-$2 Billion on NextGen. It makes good business sense to use this enormous capital outlay to encourage guests to stay onsite, to use NextGen (meaning FP+) as a replacement for the reduced EMH. It costs WDW essentially nothing to (for example) issue more or "better" FP+ to onsite guests. Why wouldn't TDO want to use FP+ as a way to improve occupancy rates? Doing so presents no moral or ethical dilemma. Businesses show preferential treatment to their "best" customers all the time. Why wouldn't TDO use FP+ to show preferential treatment to its "best" customers?

Such normal hour in-park preferential treatment would be a reversal of WDW's current egalitarian system within the theme parks. However, there is nothing "wrong" with it other than being different than what's offered today and, somehow, not feeling like it's in the spirit of what Walt Disney wanted.

Remember, Walt said:

The idea of Disneyland is a simple one. It will be a place for people to find happiness and knowledge.

It will be a place for parents and children to share pleasant times in one another's company: a place for teachers and pupils to discover greater ways of understanding and education. Here the older generation can recapture the nostalgia of days gone by, and the younger generation can savior the challenge of the future. Here will be the wonders of Nature and Man for all to see and understand.

Walt intended DL to be for everyone but Walt's words are over 60 years old and, no doubt, are viewed as antiqued by many Disney executives.

The executives in charge of Disney are running a business and they are not going to let a dead man's views from over half-a-century ago change their minds or influence their decisions.

And that's why WDW is in the state that it is today.

 

[disneyeater]

FP distribution, like attraction capacity, is one WDW's many carefully guarded pieces of information

It's possible the public will never know the FP+ distribution algorithm. However, once the system is fully deployed, it should be possible to observe trends. Are people staying onsite generally receiving more access to "good" FP+? Do Deluxe Resorts guests appear to have generally better access than Value Resort guests?

It will be interesting to see how this unfolds over time. I strongly suspect FP+ Version 1.0 is not going to be the last version. Disney should have a long-term strategy in place to evolve FP+ to reach their ultimate goal. People accept change but only in small doses. Too big of a change all at once could rock the boat. Disney does not want to rock the boat.

Disney already has eliminated the 3rd Evening Extra Magic Hours (EMH). January's EMH suggest WDW may be cutting back even further on EMH. EMH are one of the primary incentives for paying extra to stay onsite. If WDW curtails EMH further (a great way to reduce opex), what will it provide in its place? If Disney simply reduces EMH without some other means to encourage guests to stay onsite, WDW occupancy rates will decline. They already are down to 78%, a disturbingly low number given WDW's historical occupancy rates. What is Disney going to do to improve those numbers?

Disney just spent $1-to-$2 Billion on NextGen. It makes good business sense to use this enormous capital outlay to encourage guests to stay onsite, to use NextGen (meaning FP+) as a replacement for the reduced EMH. It costs WDW essentially nothing to (for example) issue more or "better" FP+ to onsite guests. Why wouldn't TDO want to use FP+ as a way to improve occupancy rates? Doing so presents no moral or ethical dilemma. Businesses show preferential treatment to their "best" customers all the time. Why wouldn't TDO use FP+ to show preferential treatment to its "best" customers?

Such normal hour in-park preferential treatment would be a reversal of WDW's current egalitarian system within the theme parks. However, there is nothing "wrong" with it other than being different than what's offered today and, somehow, not feeling like it's in the spirit of what Walt Disney wanted.

Remember, Walt said:

Walt intended DL to be for everyone but Walt's words are over 60 years old and, no doubt, are viewed as antiqued by many Disney executives.

The executives in charge of Disney are running a business and they are not going to let a dead man's views from over half-a-decade ago change their minds or influence their decisions.

And that's why WDW is in the state that it is today.

I will agree with you that onsite will absolutely have an advantage, but I think all the talk of a deluxe resort advantage, while feasible, is only a guess of how things will be used.

 

[ParentsOf4]

I will agree with you that onsite will absolutely have an advantage, but I think all the talk of a deluxe resort advantage, while feasible, is only a guess of how things will be used.

If you accept the premise that onsite guests will receive preferential FP+ treatment, why does it stop there?

In the decision-making process to determine the new distribution algorthm for FP+, why would Disney executives decide that it's OK to show preferential treatment to onsite over offsite guests, but not to Deluxe over Moderate or Value Resort guests?

If you crunch the numbers (and I have), you'll quickly realize that WDW does not have anywhere near enough "good" FP+ experiences at Epcot, DHS, and DAK. With all that correlated information now at its disposal, why is it difficult to take one more step and accept maybe, just maybe, someone paying $600/night is going to be offered better FP+ options than someone paying $100/night?

FP+ is a complete departure from the old. Now is Disney's chance to make FP+ to be exactly what they want it to be.

Let me put it another way. If I spent $600/night and couldn't get a FP+ for TSM, I'd be pretty upset. So upset that I might not be willing to spend $600/night the next time. Does Disney want to upset its $600/night guest or its $100/night guest?

 

[freediverdude]

It looks to me like, at least for now, the ones who will be really screwed in this are the people who walk up to the ticket booths and purchase a ticket the same day they enter the park. While more and more people realize that going to Disney often requires some planning, I think there's still a sizable chunk of guests who just drive to Florida, stay in some motel on 192, and drive into Disney to visit a theme park for the day, with next to no planning. Some probably not even realizing there is more than one theme park, as hard as it is for us on here to think people might not know that. It's this guest that I think Disney will be disappointing with all of this, when these people realize that others have booked fastpasses way in advance, and that by afternoon the kiosks they can use won't show much available, and later realizing that they could have downloaded an app to their phone to help as well.

 

[stlphil]

The current FP system provides equal access to everyone. Rich or poor, onsite or offsite, traveler or local, everyone has an equal chance at FP.

With NextGen, Disney will be able to correlate a tremendous amount of data. (Gaps in their data collection and storage systems made it difficult to centralize this information in the past.) How often do you visit? How much do you spend when you visit? Where are you staying? What is your income bracket? Disney will have this information and more before deciding which FP+ to offer you at your 60-day window.

Demand for the "good" FP+ will far exceed supply, especially at Epcot, DHS, and DAK, where there are significantly fewer marque attractions. Disney will have to ration FP+ for attractions such as EE, Soarin', and TSM. It would be naive to think Disney won't use the information it now has integrated together to determine who gets preferred access to these "good" FP+.

I'm not suggesting all TSM FP+ will go to Deluxe Resort guests. However, it would be bad business for Disney not to keep its "best" customers happy. With approximately 10,000 Deluxe Resort rooms representing potentially 40,000 Deluxe Resort guests each day, that's a lot of people to keep happy. It seems unrealistic to expect Disney to offer the same FP+ options to its Deluxe Resort guests as its day guests.

Like it or not, the WDW theme parks are slowly becoming a place for the rich, or at least those who are willing to spend as if they are rich. Of course, with ticket prices increasing the way they have since Iger took charge in 2005, we already knew that.

This suggests another quick back-of-the-envelope calculation. Assume 30K guests in deluxe resorts (less than 4 per room, less than 100% occupancy), and 3.5 FP+ per person each day (4 for MK with highest attendance, 3 for other parks). That's 105K FP+ for deluxe guests.

Now assume 2400 per hour ride capacity average for the good rides (probably high), 50% of capacity going to FP, and 12 hour average park days. That's 14400 per ride each day. This means that the deluxe guests alone could use all FP+ for nearly 7.5 rides per day (105,000 / 14,400). I only count about a dozen or so rides property-wide that really need FP, so to keep just deluxe guests happy you may need to allocate nearly 2/3 of all FP to them each day.

Okay, a couple of caveats. Deluxe guests won't allocate all their FP wisely, or even use them all. And yes, they will use some FP+ for reserved viewing spots for spectaculars and such, but there can't be that many of those slots available, not enough to change the calculation much.

So if Disney really does give deluxe guests preferential access to keep them happy, everyone else will be fighting for the leftovers.

 

[stlphil]

FP distribution, like attraction capacity, is one WDW's many carefully guarded pieces of information

It's possible the public will never know the FP+ distribution algorithm. However, once the system is fully deployed, it should be possible to observe trends. Are people staying onsite generally receiving more access to "good" FP+? Do Deluxe Resorts guests appear to have generally better access than Value Resort guests?

It will be interesting to see how this unfolds over time. I strongly suspect FP+ Version 1.0 is not going to be the last version. Disney should have a long-term strategy in place to evolve FP+ to reach their ultimate goal. People accept change but only in small doses. Too big of a change all at once could rock the boat. Disney does not want to rock the boat.

Disney already has eliminated the 3rd Evening Extra Magic Hours (EMH). January's EMH suggest WDW may be cutting back even further on EMH. EMH are one of the primary incentives for paying extra to stay onsite. If WDW curtails EMH further (a great way to reduce opex), what will it provide in its place? If Disney simply reduces EMH without some other means to encourage guests to stay onsite, WDW occupancy rates will decline. They already are down to 78%, a disturbingly low number given WDW's historical occupancy rates. What is Disney going to do to improve those numbers?

Disney just spent $1-to-$2 Billion on NextGen. It makes good business sense to use this enormous capital outlay to encourage guests to stay onsite, to use NextGen (meaning FP+) as a replacement for the reduced EMH. It costs WDW essentially nothing to (for example) issue more or "better" FP+ to onsite guests. Why wouldn't TDO want to use FP+ as a way to improve occupancy rates? Doing so presents no moral or ethical dilemma. Businesses show preferential treatment to their "best" customers all the time. Why wouldn't TDO use FP+ to show preferential treatment to its "best" customers?

Such normal hour in-park preferential treatment would be a reversal of WDW's current egalitarian system within the theme parks. However, there is nothing "wrong" with it other than being different than what's offered today and, somehow, not feeling like it's in the spirit of what Walt Disney wanted.

Remember, Walt said:

Walt intended DL to be for everyone but Walt's words are over 60 years old and, no doubt, are viewed as antiqued by many Disney executives.

The executives in charge of Disney are running a business and they are not going to let a dead man's views from over half-a-century ago change their minds or influence their decisions.

And that's why WDW is in the state that it is today.

We may never know the exact algorithm, but in order for FP+ to be an incentive to stay on property or upgrade accommodations (especially if they get rid of EMH), they will have to promote and advertise some of the details of the advantages.

Dr. Strangelove: Of course, the whole point of a Doomsday Machine is lost, if you *keep* it a *secret*! Why didn't you tell the world, EH?

 

[disneyeater]

If you accept the premise that onsite guests will receive preferential FP+ treatment, why does it stop there?

In the decision-making process to determine the new distribution algorthm for FP+, why would Disney executives decide that it's OK to show preferential treatment to onsite over offsite guests, but not to Deluxe over Moderate or Value Resort guests?

If you crunch the numbers (and I have), you'll quickly realize that WDW does not have anywhere near enough "good" FP+ experiences at Epcot, DHS, and DAK. With all that correlated information now at its disposal, why is it difficult to take one more step and accept maybe, just maybe, someone paying $600/night is going to be offered better FP+ options than someone paying $100/night?

FP+ is a complete departure from the old. Now is Disney's chance to make FP+ to be exactly what they want it to be.

Let me put it another way. If I spent $600/night and couldn't get a FP+ for TSM, I'd be pretty upset. So upset that I might not be willing to spend $600/night the next time. Does Disney want to upset its $600/night guest or its $100/night guest?

Maybe I am wrong, but I thought they already announced a FP+ booking advantage for those staying onsite vs. day guests. That is why I accepted the premise.

I also am guessing (like others) this will replace EMH, but obviously have nothing to back it up.

 

[RandomPrincess]

You are all assuming the the guests who are using FP+ know what the good rides are or think they good rides means thrill rides. A woman who tested FP+ in Dec got to use it at MK and DHS. She had never been to Disney before and she has a 4 year old she chose.

DHS - 9-9:10 AM Little Mermaid, 1:10-2:10 Toy Story Mania, 3:55-4:05 Disney Junior Live

MK - 10:55-11:55 Under the Sea with Little Mermaid,12:20 - 1:20 Peter Pan's Flight, 2:05 - 3:05 Winnie the Pooh, 3:30-4:30 Enchanted Tales with Belle

She also said there was button to push to let Disney pick your FP+ for you.

Also I would be one of the people to use it for a parade or Fireworks spot. My kids will be 2 and 4 on our next trip. Most likely neither will be 40 inches. I would rather FP for things my kids will be able to enjoy. I've been on Space, Splash, BTMRR etc 100s of time pre kids. I would rather use my FP+ for thing the kids will love and get to do for the first time. Not all people think like me but there might be enough of us to off set the people who just want the thrill ride FP+.