NextGen Deep Impact

[Rasvar]

Universal created over 700 unique park specific pieces of merchandise for WWOHP. expect that to double for Potter 2.0

That said I am stunned there are no Golden Snitch antenna toppers.

J.K. Rowling would never allow those. Heck, she nixed the hand dryers in the bathrooms that are in all the other parts of the parks. No way is she going to allow Golden Snitch antenna toppers to be sold.

 

[Rasvar]

Concur - much of the arguments being made here could have applied directly to FP's initial roll-out. From costs vs ROI, to messy changes to existing rides, to class warefare, to what Disney could do for onsite vs offsite, tiering, etc.

FP rolled out during my hiatus from Disney, so I don't have first hand knowledge. But given the vigor many have STILL over the program (tho they aren't shy about benefiting from it) I'd wager some were resistant then too.

My impression of the original FP was to get more time for people in shops and restaurants while addressing the complaint about long lines.

I despised the heck out of FP. I still do. But it is kind of tax loopholes: I favour closing a lot of them but as long as they are there, I will take advantage of them to the fullest extent because it would be stupid not too. I appoach FP the same way. I hoarded passes with the best of them. When they started enforcing times, I had no problem. I actually prefer the enforcement. FP's are available later in the day now (even TSM to a small extent by an hour or two).

 

[Funmeister]

My impression of the original FP was to get more time for people in shops and restaurants while addressing the complaint about long lines.

I despised the heck out of FP. I still do. But it is kind of tax loopholes: I favour closing a lot of them but as long as they are there, I will take advantage of them to the fullest extent because it would be stupid not too. I appoach FP the same way. I hoarded passes with the best of them. When they started enforcing times, I had no problem. I actually prefer the enforcement. FP's are available later in the day now (even TSM to a small extent by an hour or two).

Getting more people into shops was part of the original FP. There was also a mentality that they could put FP at lower attendance attractions and it would create a false demand for that attraction. It also helped in cutting down on some maintenence costs. For instance the Land boatride can have 50+ boats on the river at one time. When FP was implemented they cut the number of boats down to less than a half dozen. Since there was a false demand created by adding FP, guests (new) were willing to wait because they created the demand rather than the ride itself creating that demand. They saved money on maint costs by decreasing the number of boats. In addition to getting rid of a live CM on board that attraction has seen its share of cuts...but that is another story.

 

[Patricia Melton]

Its a data mining program to help seperate you from your money.

This is such a tired cliche...this nonsense that some people on Disney boards enjoy repeating about Disney "separating you from your money".

You can honestly go around your entire day saying this every five minutes. You buy a newspaper...and it is USA Today separating you from your money! You get a coffee...and it is Dunkin Donuts separating you from your money! You buy some mints after the coffee...and it is Rite-Aid drug store separating you from your money!

What a messed up attitude to have in life if you see every transaction as "separating you from your money".

Every time someone on these boards starts up with this, I think of Scrooge McDuck from DuckTales going on about his lucky dime and being paranoid that people were out to get him and steal his money bin.

There is so much more to life than being obsessed with people "separating you from your money".

 

[Patricia Melton]

Lately I've been obsessed with NextGen, trying to understand how it will change the WDW experience. Mostly it's been depressing stuff: abandoning WDW's current egalitarian system, offering a "better" theme park experience to those who pay more. It feels like TDO is completely abandoning Walt Disney's vision.

However, I think I've found one silver lining.

The current FP system encourages everyone to get to the park as soon as possible in order to obtain the "good" FP. Onsite and offsite guests equally adopt the "9 AM rope drop mad-dash-for-TSM FP" mentality.

With FP+, many onsite guests will (for example) have their TSM FP+ in hand. With morning EMH eventually eliminated, they will have less reason to be at the theme parks for opening. Undoubtedly more will sleep in.

This gives offsite guests an opportunity to experience the theme parks with slightly shorter lines in the morning. It's not much but at least it's something.

Let's just hope WDW doesn't start issuing 9 AM FP+.

This is a very smart observation.

FP+ is going to have a cultural change on how people experience the parks. I bet Disney doesn't know what the ultimate effect will really be. They THINK they know, but remember the rule of unintended consequences.

I can only speak for my family but in the last twenty years of going to WDW I have noticed that Fast Pas has made the parks less enjoyable for me. This is especially true when my niece and nephew come on our annual trips to WDW...because I feel intense pressure to get them the Fast Passes if they want to go on something in particular. This is not good for my nerves...and I don't like waking up the morning we're going to the parks being revved up and on edge worrying about being able to get a Fast Pass. I like when my son and daughter are in charge of this and I can go and do something else and relax. The Fast Passes insert a lot of anxiety into visiting WDW for me. I've seen pushing and arguments over those Fast Passes...and the mad dash to race to get them at rope drop.

I really hope FP+ ends up being a better way. I really miss the days when we didn't wake up a bundle of nerves and head to the park on edge with adrenaline pumping so that we didn't miss out on something because everyone got those Fast Passes. I want to be able to wake up, enjoy a nice breakfast on vacation, and then take my time getting to the park and just enjoy myself without rushing or feeling pressure.

I am on vacation...and I want to enjoy the time in Florida with my family. I think Fast Pass spoiled a lot of that through the years and has gotten to the point where something needed to be done about it.

I'm hoping FP+ is that something...but maybe it won't work out as intended. It's one of those things we'll just have to wait and see about.

 

[John]

This is such a tired cliche...this nonsense that some people on Disney boards enjoy repeating about Disney "separating you from your money".

You can honestly go around your entire day saying this every five minutes. You buy a newspaper...and it is USA Today separating you from your money! You get a coffee...and it is Dunkin Donuts separating you from your money! You buy some mints after the coffee...and it is Rite-Aid drug store separating you from your money!

What a messed up attitude to have in life if you see every transaction as "separating you from your money".

Every time someone on these boards starts up with this, I think of Scrooge McDuck from DuckTales going on about his lucky dime and being paranoid that people were out to get him and steal his money bin.

There is so much more to life than being obsessed with people "separating you from your money".

Hmmmmmm And you think that a puplicly traded company is going to just invest over a billion dollars to make it so you dont have to worry about getting the FP you want? The whole Dunkin Donuts....Rite Aid scenario is oranges and apples....but hey lets address it. When I go to Dunking Donuts I am getting exactly what I am paying for. I pay "X" amount for a 16 ounce coffee nothing more nothing less. They are not saying....If you pay this price we will let you go to the front of the line to get your coffee. Nope....no matter if I am last in line or first...I pay the same for the same 16 ounces. Dunkin Donuts isnt keeping track of how long I stare at the glazed donuts....then offering me a deal on glazed donuts when I come in the door the next time.

If you want to deny yourself the facts, its your choice. All companies are in the buisness in making money includeing Disney. This topic has been discussed adnauseum. You are simply ignoreing the ways how NexGen will be used in areas such as marketing and merch. Data mining isnt new....or Disney useing this concept. You see one sentence and somewhat take it out of context. The reasoning some people have a propblem with it.....is that some could find a better use of the funds. Most of the FP+ part of NexGen already exsist except for the fact of reserveing it before you actually go to the park.

Other then you not having to worry about getting your FP....How else do you feel NexGen will enhance your visit? Also people seem to think that everyone will get the FP they want....when they want. IMO I think that wont be the case.....such as ADRs. Popular resturant ADRs are very difficult to get. Why wouldnt popular attractions be the same? Not to mention that the word here on the blue pagesfrom park Ops is the program has been difficult at best.

 

[Tom]

Patricia Melton, I realize that you understandably love WDW and want to defend it. So do a lot of people. However, I've also read many posts from you criticizing TDO's executives, Ivy League MBAs I think you've called them.

WDW is not run by Walt Disney; it's run by those same Ivy League MBAs you love to attack. I respectfully suggest you need to separate WDW from TDO. WDW is not trying to separate you from your money. It's those Ivy League MBAs that are trying to separate you from your money.

In the most simplistic manner, this is entirely true. Disney is a corporation. It's sole purpose in life is to generate profits - as much as we hate it, and as much as Walt hated it when he had to succumb to "going public" to keep the doors open.

To generate a profit, it is the job of everyone to separate customers from their money.

Us "old timers" just wish they would do it while ALSO caring about the guest experience, like they did until the early to mid 90s. But, they do not.

 

[Disneyhead'71]

Patricia, the reason why people are saying that NextGen is a program set up to separate people from their money is Disney is fully expecting to wring AT LEAST $1.5+B more out of guests for the exact same product they are offering now without officially raising prices. That's as simple of explanation as you can get.

Do you disagree with that point?

 

[Buried20KLeague]

Concur - much of the arguments being made here could have applied directly to FP's initial roll-out. From costs vs ROI, to messy changes to existing rides, to class warefare, to what Disney could do for onsite vs offsite, tiering, etc.

FP rolled out during my hiatus from Disney, so I don't have first hand knowledge. But given the vigor many have STILL over the program (tho they aren't shy about benefiting from it) I'd wager some were resistant then too.

If it changes to a tiered system (as I berlieve it will), I'm confident that down the road I'll never say anything close to "that was a good idea", personally.

 

[PhotoDave219]

I can not imagine it being any more difficult than one of the touch ordering screens found in Pecos Bills.

Assuming they're open. I was there trying to get dinner and all the touch screen ordering stations were turned off and the MOD said they were only open for lunch that day.

Which makes me wonder, with all this technology theyre adding, all to make things easier and for fewer staffing.... whats the point if they don't impliment it with any hint of common sense?

 

[Funmeister]

In the most simplistic manner, this is entirely true. Disney is a corporation. It's sole purpose in life is to generate profits - as much as we hate it, and as much as Walt hated it when he had to succumb to "going public" to keep the doors open.

To generate a profit, it is the job of everyone to separate customers from their money.

Us "old timers" just wish they would do it while ALSO caring about the guest experience, like they did until the early to mid 90s. But, they do not.

With all due respect...I prefer to "generate profits" the way Disneyland and Oriental Land Company does it...not WDW.

It can be done while caring about the guest experience...WDW just chooses not to manage it that way.

 

[Goofyernmost]

I ran out of time to read this entire thread, so let me ask this one question. Do we know for sure now just how NextGen is going to work? There seems to be a lot of speculation but I don't recall seeing any real hard facts about the process and what it will mean to every possible guest experience. Reference something if it has been disclosed. I'm not challenging, just trying to get some answers. For all I know, everyone could be absolutely correct about it.

 

[Buried20KLeague]

I ran out of time to read this entire thread, so let me ask this one question. Do we know for sure now just how NextGen is going to work? There seems to be a lot of speculation but I don't recall seeing any real hard facts about the process and what it will mean to every possible guest experience. Reference something if it has been disclosed. I'm not challenging, just trying to get some answers. For all I know, everyone could be absolutely correct about it.

There's very little confirmed info out there. There are two schools of thought... One that says this will make touring the parks easier, and the other that says this system will be used nefariously. Both sides feel they have reason to believe the way they do.

 

[Tom]

With all due respect...I prefer to "generate profits" the way Disneyland and Oriental Land Company does it...not WDW.

It can be done while caring about the guest experience...WDW just chooses not to manage it that way.

I'm not sure who the "due respect" was directed at, but hopefully not me. If so, you misinterpreted my post. I was merely citing WDW's philosophy, and not stating global rules. Sorry if you took it wrong.

But it is indeed the goal if every business to "separate people from their money". That's just a terrible way to put it.

 

[ParentsOf4]

There's very little confirmed info out there. There are two schools of thought... One that says this will make touring the parks easier, and the other that says this system will be used nefariously. Both sides feel they have reason to believe the way they do.

Actually, I think it will be both. NextGen will make touring easier for those who fork over more money to WDW, not directly on FP+ but indirectly on the things needed (e.g. onsite rooms) to get the "good" FP+.

There are limited numbers of FP for attractions such as TSM, Soarin', Peter Pan, etc. Today, people get FP based on the amount of effort they put into it. Get to the parks early, run around from FP dispenser to FP dispenser, and get "good" FP. The single parent working at the local grocery store has the same opportunity to get FP as the wealthy business executive.

With NextGen, people who stay onsite will get the first crack at FP+. Effectively, spend more money and get better FP+.

Hey, if I spent $400/night on a Deluxe Resort room, I'm going to be on TDO's case to get me a FP+ for TSM. TDO isn't being evil; they are following the business rules of supply-and-demand. It just means those with more money to spend will have better WDW experiences. The haves will have more, the have nots will have less. It's the way of the world lately. If they were selling rice to the poor, it would be unconscionable. But they simply are selling vacations. Still, it depresses me. "Et tu, Brute?"

I do not know this for a fact but signs are pointing this way. It's also possible TDO will change this 5 more times before officially rolling it out.

 

[Longhairbear]

Actually, I think it will be both. NextGen will make touring easier for those who fork over more money to WDW, not directly on FP+ but indirectly on the things needed (e.g. onsite rooms) to get the "good" FP+.

There are limited numbers of FP for attractions such as TSM, Soarin', Peter Pan, etc. Today, people get FP based on the amount of effort they put into it. Get to the parks early, run around from FP dispenser to FP dispenser, and get "good" FP. The single parent working at the local grocery store has the same opportunity to get FP as the wealthy business executive.

With NextGen, people who stay onsite will get the first crack at FP+. Effectively, spend more money and get better FP+.

Hey, if I spent $400/night on a Deluxe Resort room, I'm going to be on TDO's case to get me a FP+ for TSM. TDO isn't being evil; they are following the business rules of supply-and-demand. It just means those with more money to spend will have better WDW experiences. The haves will have more, the have nots will have less. It's the way of the world lately. If they were selling rice to the poor, it would be unconscionable. But they simply are selling vacations. Still, it depresses me. "Et tu, Brute?"

I do not know this for a fact but signs are pointing this way. It's also possible TDO will change this 5 more times before officially rolling it out.

Arm chairing a bit here, but our fave spirit mentioned doubling up on F&W at EPCOT. Next Gen is a perfect way to vacuum more dollars from DVC members like I, that actually love to cook in villa. And to coax those that never cook in their villa to do so, and empty their wallets into the Disney coffers.
Let's say I am at F&W at EPCOT, I'm loving something that I tasted at the Italy kiosk, and post that on whatever app is associated with F&W on my Smartphone. Up comes a prepackaged grocery bag with recipes included for making the perfect Italian meal in our villa, with a list of wine pairing. You order for 2 or more, and they've kept you on property by cooking in, instead of you from ordering groceries from off property. Prepackage heat and eat is also offered, another way of keeping we DVC members spending money on property. All of this while staying at your perfect resort of choice. Aren't DVC members booking during F&W for their love of food, and wine? And Disney hasn't latched on to this concept, and milked it for all it's worth?
It's a no brainer for me, I thought of that years ago, but the lugs at TDO haven't come up with that one yet?
Personally speaking? I'd have been Pixie Dusted into that idea, lock, stock, and barrel.
Instead, they offer we DVC members $ 300 off the going rate for a PAP, and then take away the 20% discount. Idiots.

 

[Br'er Platypus]

With NextGen, people who stay onsite will get the first crack at FP+. Effectively, spend more money and get better FP+.

Hey, if I spent $400/night on a Deluxe Resort room, I'm going to be on TDO's case to get me a FP+ for TSM. TDO isn't being evil; they are following the business rules of supply-and-demand. It just means those with more money to spend will have better WDW experiences. The haves will have more, the have nots will have less. It's the way of the world lately. If they were selling rice to the poor, it would be unconscionable. But they simply are selling vacations. Still, it depresses me. "Et tu, Brute?"

I can see how this is depressing for annual passholders, who visit several times a year (if not more so). I have read this thread, and understand why this is a concern for you and yours.

But from my perspective (as the silent majority), FP+ is the best news I've ever heard, especially if your predictions are as spot on as I hope!

For families who may only visit once every five years, and choose to stay onsite at moderate/deluxe resorts, this is actually an amazing perk. I can choose to go to WL, and they go ahead and slap 8 Fastpass plusses on us. . . every day? I pay the same price, and get what I feel is an added value, and it doesn't require rope drop insanity, crisscrossing the parks, or having to obsess over details online to learn all the local "tricks." (I admit that the last one is actually kind of fun).

If you think about it, this FP+ program is genius. With this kind of service, I may choose to come to Disney much more often, turning a once-every-five-year family into a every-other-year family. My family fills a room 2.5 times as much over the next 30 years

Will they lose some annual passholders? Maybe. . . but they will get me, much more often.

 

[GoofGoof]

I ran out of time to read this entire thread, so let me ask this one question. Do we know for sure now just how NextGen is going to work? There seems to be a lot of speculation but I don't recall seeing any real hard facts about the process and what it will mean to every possible guest experience. Reference something if it has been disclosed. I'm not challenging, just trying to get some answers. For all I know, everyone could be absolutely correct about it.

Nah, nobody knows anything for sure yet, except that it's a bad idea and will ruin your park experience...

 

[GoofGoof]

As an once-every-few-years onsite guest, you're going to become TDO's best buddy. Others will lose out big time.

TDO clearly is beginning to treat its AP holders with contempt. Consider:

• Premium Annual Passes went up 7.7%.
• Annual Passes went up 10.6%.
• Children under the age of 10 now are charged the full adult AP price.
• AP merchandise discount was cut in half.
• TIW price went up 33%.

There's a pattern here. TDO doesn't like AP holders any more.

If FP+ goes in the direction I think it will, AP holders will lose even more by being placed behind onsite guests. Basically, onsite guests will be able to get better FP+ while AP holders and other offsite guests might end up with their scraps.

AP holders tend to be experienced WDW visitors who know how to game the system. They know how to score the best FP, where to find the cheapest food, etc. TDO would much rather have the more clueless (sorry) once-every-few-years vacationers who spend more and complain less.

AP holders tend to be locals or cost-conscious visitors who spend a lot less than the once-every-few-years vacationers. They stay offsite and spend less on food & merchandise. Yet AP holders consume just as many WDW resources, i.e. transportation, attractions, etc. WDW wants to deploy its resources more cost efficiently to favor those who spend more.

The next step would be for TDO to eliminate the “free parking” benefit for AP holders. However, this could backfire, as FP look for alternatives such as parking at the resorts (even though they are not supposed to) and taking the buses, causing the resort parking lots and buses to get much more crowded, upsetting onsite guests. Because of this, I don’t see this happening anytime soon. Instead, maybe just more AP price increases.

I hate to say it, but this makes sense. From a business standpoint who is the better customer, the local who pays less than $2K for their family of 4's annual passes and uses them the equivalent of 4 weeks during the year or the "tourist" who books a $5,000 package for the week. If you get 4 tourist families to each drop $5K for a week that's $20K vs $2K from the local for the same 4 weeks of use. On top of that the tourists are a captive audience who eat on property almost exclusively and spend more on what a lot of regulars think of as "generic" and junky merchandise.

 

[Sneezy62]

I hate to say it, but this makes sense. From a business standpoint who is the better customer, the local who pays less than $2K for their family of 4's annual passes and uses them the equivalent of 4 weeks during the year or the "tourist" who books a $5,000 package for the week. If you get 4 tourist families to each drop $5K for a week that's $20K vs $2K from the local for the same 4 weeks of use. On top of that the tourists are a captive audience who eat on property almost exclusively and spend more on what a lot of regulars think of as "generic" and junky merchandise.

From a business standpoint the regular customer always trumps the one off customer. I don't know a lot about Disney but I know that a regular customer who spends a little over many visits is a better customer than a one shot customer who spends a lot one time.

It is often the case that if you are providing a non essential product that you give those regulars discounts and perks when economic conditions worsen and take them away when the economy improves...as long as you maintain a premium experience.

I would try to identify that family of APers who visit 4 weeks a year and give them a discount on their fifth week or make sure that the next time they tried to get a last minute table that it was there for them. If I could I might even try to differentiate between a family of APers who visit 4 weeks a year, buy stuff (even just a little bit of stuff) and treat my employees and other customers with some respect, and a family of APers who visit 4 weeks a year and push and shove and generally make things harder on my employees and other customers. Of course I'm looking at it from the perspective of a small businessman who knows my customers by name.

If NextGen is about Disney getting to know it's customers better it might be a good thing. If it's about trading fastpasses for dollars then Disney is doomed.