NextGen Deep Impact

[Rasvar]

I myself only see them phasing out the evening magic hours. The morning ones can still be marketed as a perk for staying on-site.

I hope this is not the case. I only ever use the evening ones myself. I prefer the parks at night, especially in the summer months. I almost never do rope drop unless I am in California where I can actually be a morning person coming from Florida.

Edit: I should also add that eliminating Evening Extra Magic Hours will leave a huge hole for someone like me. Especially since PI no longer exists as an option. I find them more important in decisions for me to stay on-site in the off season when the hours are shorter than in the summer.

 

[wdwfan22]

I hope this is not the case. I only ever use the evening ones myself. I prefer the parks at night, especially in the summer months. I almost never do rope drop unless I am in California where I can actually be a morning person coming from Florida.

From what i've heard the current plan is to only phase out the evening hours, but this of course will be done over time.

 

[Rasvar]

From what i've heard the current plan is to only phase out the evening hours, but this of course will be done over time.

Well, if they do that, they lose a whole ton of money from me. I have zero reason to go in the off season. That is usually when I would go and stay on property. Morning hours are useless to me.

 

[lebeau]

It will be interesting to see how this actually works for people without a smart phone. I have no doubt that Disney will have a way for such folks to take advantage, even in park, but how cumbersome will it be?

Didn't I hear somewhere that Disney planned to rent devices to those without smart phones.

Moneymoneymoney!

 

[HenryMystic]

This thread has really helped me understand some aspects of NexGen.

 

[Clyde Birdbrain]

I just had an idea for a NextGen-type thing that Disney should do. I am always using my iPhone at the parks, especially in lines and more now that they have wifi. With FastPass+ I may be using it even more. The problem is that my phone usually runs out of power later in the day. I must not be the only one with this problem.

Wouldn't it be neat if Disney made an area of small lockers (like the locker system at Universal), and inside each locker are a couple of cables for different phone systems. You just put your phone in there for a little while and when you come back an hour later it's charged. With FastPass+ they could make it free for deluxe guests and charge a couple of dollars for others. I think every park should have one of these charging stations.

 

[Rasvar]

I just had an idea for a NextGen-type thing that Disney should do. I am always using my iPhone at the parks, especially in lines and more now that they have wifi. With FastPass+ I may be using it even more. The problem is that my phone usually runs out of power later in the day. I must not be the only one with this problem.

Wouldn't it be neat if Disney made an area of small lockers (like the locker system at Universal), and inside each locker are a couple of cables for different phone systems. You just put your phone in there for a little while and when you come back an hour later it's charged. With FastPass+ they could make it free for deluxe guests and charge a couple of dollars for others. I think every park should have one of these charging stations.

Disneyland already has these. I keep waiting for WDW to update their lockers to the kind of lockers they have out there. The current locker system of using keys and deposits for the keys is one area where they really could make it much better with the new automatic locker systems.

 

[Clyde Birdbrain]

Disneyland already has these.

Wow, I had no idea. That is excellent they have that at DL. I hope they'll get them at DW too. Maybe at the new fancy Tangled restrooms.

 

[lazyboy97o]

Wow, I had no idea. That is excellent they have that at DL. I hope they'll get them at DW too. Maybe at the new fancy Tangled restrooms.

The D-Zones, one of which will be at the new restrooms, will include facilities to relax and recharge electronics.

 

[nytimez]

The D-Zones, one of which will be at the new restrooms, will include facilities to relax and recharge electronics.

But if you didn't plan six months in advance to recharge you cellphone at 1:45 on Tuesday, you're screwed.

 

[gonnichi]

The D-Zones, one of which will be at the new restrooms, will include facilities to relax and recharge electronics.

I wish they would turn the old Odyssey resturanrt at Epcot into a D-zone area. I hate seeing that area being unused just as much as the old image works and wonders of life building.

 

[RSoxNo1]

I know NextGen has been discussed and discussed from almost every angle. There is a movement going on right now, in front of your very eyes, that many of you may not even realize. The troops (Cast Members) are being rallied for what will be the biggest push of in-park (general areas) Cast Members in the history of the resort. This number includes the "prize patrols" that used to give away prizes to unsuspecting guests years ago and "Super Greeters" in the Magic Kingdom as they were called in the mid-90's.

One thing the company does realize about NextGen, is that it is going to take some (many) guests a while to adapt to the new culture of how things are done in the parks. With this you will see an influx of Cast Members at all turnstiles (think more of problem solvers vs. opening more turnstiles to get people in faster).

The problem with this is there will NOT be an increase of service but a flurry of soldiers trying to do damage control and educating guests at the same time on a system that is not just new to Disney but to new to a lot of people in general. The labor hours I have heard that will be used for this initiative are mind boggling and there is no definite end time (if any). The company may have dug ourselves into a technological/logistics/operations hell that will never end and just may be the new norm.

Well the Epcot fireworks fired long ago so off to bed I go....this is going to be a mess.

The fact that they're prepping this $1.5 billion project with extra cast members for "damage control" is great evidence that the people in charge are so delusional and egotistical that they are moving beyond all rational thought in terms of these changes.

 

[RSoxNo1]

Staffing levels are certainly up at the Magic Kingdom. They have just had to open a new parking lot to handle the additional cast for FL, and they are about to start expanding the original cast lot.

A new parking lot that they forgot to build when they hired 800 new employees.

 

[RSoxNo1]

I 'believe' that NextGen will be considered a huge success within just a couple of years.

I also believe that there are way too many people prone to calling everything in regards FP+/NextGen a failure or a mess so early on in the game.

This. Reason falls on deaf ears around here though.

What has convinced you in the past 20 years that Disney is ahead of the game with technology? Is it their groundbreaking attractions? What about their fantastic informative and easy to navigate website? Or perhaps it's those bug free mobile applications that are going to be the backbone of "Your Disney Experience"?

Having said all that, let's take the leap of faith that all of this works seamlessly, the way Disney wants it to. Best case scenario we're now paying more and getting less. So what about this is actually positive?

 

[RSoxNo1]

funny how ROI is everyone's new favorite #1 thing Disney MUST have...

yet have no problem crapping on the company for not spending more and more and more in an attraction that in itself will never collect a dollar directly.

That's because it's much harder to quantify the effect of adding an attraction. However people go to Disney World to ride attractions and now Disney is putting in another complication to actually riding a ride.

Putting Fastpasses on mobile phones and/or Universal kiosks at centralized locations is a fantastic idea. Where it went away is booking it in advance. There was absolutely no need to do this. You can build in all of the additional features like customized ride experiences (20 years after Universal did it with E.T.) without having to schedule your Princess meet and greet 6 months before arriving.

The information for the Stranger Danger experience where attractions and characters know too much about the members of your family can be acquired at any point up to the time the guest enters the experience. The line of questioning can be asked and answered at the time the reservation is being made and all of that information can be linked to your key to the world card.

There is nothing that necessitates booking in park attractions that far in advance. If you want to have primo parade or fireworks viewings you can do something crazy like offer a crappy dessert and charge $22 for it as well.

I would argue that TWDC spent quite a sum of money (wisely IMO) on an attraction in the DCA park that is helping that park collect many new dollars that would have otherwise been spent elsewhere.

But do the math.. at nearly 300 million dollars.. plus ongoing costs. How long do you think before RSR even 'breaks even' - let alone get more money? Attractions boosts are only incremental.. and the dollars are only collected from OTHER points - not the attraction itself. A model people are happy to accept when talking about a ride. But use that logic against something like NextGen.. and people think it's snake oil.

People are so upset over Disney spending here.. but wouldn't blink if that dollar was spent on an attraction.. even if it was one they didn't like. Or how about a resturant? Or a new road? Or new signs?

ROI in Disney for many things is not measured in dollars collected directly by the investment. That's the point.

Sure, I'll do the math.

2011: DCA had an attendance of 6.34 million, Disneyland had an attendance of 16.14 million.
2012: DCA's attendance is expected to be at or above 10 million, Disneyland's attendance is expected to drop but should still be over 15 million

Assume worst case scenario that attendance increased by 2 million to the resort and will hold or increase by an additional million. Assume that average guest spending is $50 a day, your return on your 2 million guest a year increase at $50 a day will take 12 years to make up the 1.2 billion.

The reality is probably well over $100 a day with higher guest rates so the actual ROI is probably much less than 5 years.

Quality wins out. The Wizarding World of Harry Potter and Carsland are very real examples of this. I think it's going to be much harder for Disney to see an ROI as quickly on their NextGen investment.

 

[RSoxNo1]

Ah, someone has thrown down a gauntlet to do the math. So let's number crunch.

During the 2012 fiscal year conference call, CFO Jay Rasulo said:

It's uncertain what "up substantially" or "down modestly" means. Let's play with some numbers to guess:
- Domestic attendance is up 3%
- Total DLR 2011 attendance was 22.5M according to Themed Entertainment Association (TEA)
- Total WDW 2011 attendance was 47.4M according to TEA

People have suggested that DCA could break the 10M mark this year, up from 6.34M in 2011. DL might be down a bit (1M?) since more people are visiting DCA. Combined together, I'd guess DLR's total attendance might be 26M. This is just a guess but I'd call that "up substantially". Total attendance is up 3% (22.5+47.4 X 1.03 = 72M) so WDW's attendance would be about 46M (72 - 26) or down about 3%. I'd call that "down modestly". Ok, these projections seem to be in the ballpark based on limited information.

If this calculation is approximately correct, DLR annual attendance might be up 3.5M (26M - 22.5M). Just a guess but let's assume including tickets, food, parking, merchandise, and onsite hotel (some guests only), the average guest spends $100/day. $100 X 3.5M = $350M. In one year. It's likely the $1.1B investment in DCA will be a gift that keeps giving year-after-year, for a decade or longer, just like MK and Epcot. Food and merchandise costs Disney but, taken as a whole, it seems Carsland is already proving itself to be a huge financial winner.

I suspect TDO is worried. The pressure is now on them to make Next Gen just as big of a financial winner. I wonder if, secretly, they were hoping Carsland would fail.

Get out of my head.

 

[RSoxNo1]

I can agree to that in some part if you were only looking at FP vs FP+ - but NextGen extends way beyond that.

I mean... in an alternate world.. Disney could have just made FP electronic and made it so you could 'collect' a FP via smartphone instead of crossing the park to get one.. and let you pick from available return times. But we'd still have the arguments over 'thats not fair.. what about people without smartphones..' - and it would go on adnauseum. The current FP system certainly could stand an overhaul.. I for one am going to look at the improvements, and wait to see what negatives Disney does apply.. not get upset over things they possibly COULD do.

By giving Disney our phone numbers and addresses.. they could be putting us on constant solicitation calls, and door to door guys... but they don't. Just because something is possible doesn't mean the company will do it or it makes sense to do it.

I hope this is where it ends up. That Fastpass+ just means a digital version of Fastpass that operates using the old model. If they don't want to marginalize guests without smart phones they can either rent devices for the day or length of stay or have kiosks at the Fastpass+ attractions that allow guests to select any Fastpass they want in the park.

 

[RSoxNo1]

I just had an idea for a NextGen-type thing that Disney should do. I am always using my iPhone at the parks, especially in lines and more now that they have wifi. With FastPass+ I may be using it even more. The problem is that my phone usually runs out of power later in the day. I must not be the only one with this problem.

Wouldn't it be neat if Disney made an area of small lockers (like the locker system at Universal), and inside each locker are a couple of cables for different phone systems. You just put your phone in there for a little while and when you come back an hour later it's charged. With FastPass+ they could make it free for deluxe guests and charge a couple of dollars for others. I think every park should have one of these charging stations.

This is something that has baffled me as well. The D-Zone areas are totally necessary but something like the new Kali River Rapids lockers should have definitely included cell phone chargers or at least outlets in every locker. People aren't going to be inclined to sit by an outlet and charge their phone, but if they put their phone in a locker while spending 30-60 minutes on an attraction or at a show this is a prime opportunity for charging.

 

[td1129]

What has convinced you in the past 20 years that Disney is ahead of the game with technology? Is it their groundbreaking attractions? What about their fantastic informative and easy to navigate website? Or perhaps it's those bug free mobile applications that are going to be the backbone of "Your Disney Experience"?

Having said all that, let's take the leap of faith that all of this works seamlessly, the way Disney wants it to. Best case scenario we're now paying more and getting less. So what about this is actually positive?

I suppose your definition of groundbreaking technology is the most attractions with the biggest screens?

 

[Buried20KLeague]

That's because it's much harder to quantify the effect of adding an attraction. However people go to Disney World to ride attractions and now Disney is putting in another complication to actually riding a ride.

Putting Fastpasses on mobile phones and/or Universal kiosks at centralized locations is a fantastic idea. Where it went away is booking it in advance. There was absolutely no need to do this. You can build in all of the additional features like customized ride experiences (20 years after Universal did it with E.T.) without having to schedule your Princess meet and greet 6 months before arriving.

The information for the Stranger Danger experience where attractions and characters know too much about the members of your family can be acquired at any point up to the time the guest enters the experience. The line of questioning can be asked and answered at the time the reservation is being made and all of that information can be linked to your key to the world card.

There is nothing that necessitates booking in park attractions that far in advance. If you want to have primo parade or fireworks viewings you can do something crazy like offer a crappy dessert and charge $22 for it as well.



Sure, I'll do the math.

2011: DCA had an attendance of 6.34 million, Disneyland had an attendance of 16.14 million.
2012: DCA's attendance is expected to be at or above 10 million, Disneyland's attendance is expected to drop but should still be over 15 million

Assume worst case scenario that attendance increased by 2 million to the resort and will hold or increase by an additional million. Assume that average guest spending is $50 a day, your return on your 2 million guest a year increase at $50 a day will take 12 years to make up the 1.2 billion.

The reality is probably well over $100 a day with higher guest rates so the actual ROI is probably much less than 5 years.

Quality wins out. The Wizarding World of Harry Potter and Carsland are very real examples of this. I think it's going to be much harder for Disney to see an ROI as quickly on their NextGen investment.

All very well said.