unkadug
Follower of "Saget"The Cult
The Transformers will replace Spider-Man. I was told this by a great source. I don't know any more details about it.
A Great Source would never disclose such information without more details.
-
Welcome to the WDWMAGIC.COM Forums!
Please take a look around, and feel free to sign up and join the community.
New MARVEL attractions to Disney Parks
- Thread starter yipikyer
- Start date
A Great Source would never disclose such information without more details.
maxairmike
Well-Known Member
No, it isn't necessarily that they weren't making much money on Marvel merch. The contract had expired and had to be renewed. Completely different scenario than Florida, where the contract is in perpetuity and the terms, rates, and fees are the same now (accounting for inflation) as they were in the 90s when the deal was inked. Renewing the contract in '08 or '09 would have meant higher fees and not as favorable terms for Universal, since by that time Spiderman and a few other Marvel block busters had hit movie theaters.
The California and Florida Marvel deals have absolutely nothing to do with each other, and using one as an example of why the other has a limited lifespan is not a winning argument. Its like comparing a '12 Ferrari to an '89 Skylark, completely useless.
RSoxNo1
Well-Known Member
No, it's nothing like that, LOL. Completely different situation, and Dinosaur wasn't based on characters owned by another company.
There is no logical reason for them to have placed the same effects in the same scenes. It's a no brainer that they will be putting Transformers in Florida at some point, so wouldn't you think they would want to differentiate them? Now, I'm the first to say, that with Indy - no normal person would ever notice a similarity in the track layout. I've ridden Dinosaur 100+ times, and Indy a few dozen, and if I look objectively I would never have had any idea the track was the same. (However, the effects are completely different - there are no fireballs in Dino, for example.)
However, if I am a designer at Universal - wouldn't I want to mix it up - a bit? Maybe, put the effects in different spots in the ride?
I'm sorry, I feel so silly talking about this because it's so blatantly obvious, it's not even funny. Only the thinnest reasons for this are being touted as making it coincidence, or intentional for silly reasons ("Well, the story elements worked exactly the same way for Spidey, so why mess with the formula?" LOL.)
I guess you have all ridden the ride? If you had, you'd see that beat for beat, it is Spiderman. It could be slid in there so easily it's not even funny. Some of the transitions would be different, but scene for scene, almost effect for effect (and many EXACT), it's meant to go into that building eventually.
We all believe that Universal and Disney have at the very least had a conversation about returning the characters. What the Transformers layout tells me is that Universal has a price. Disney hasn't met it yet, but it seems that a price exists. If nothing else, that's a start.
lazyboy97o
Well-Known Member
That still makes no sense as Transformers: The Ride 3D was well underway YEARS before Disney announced their intention to purchase Marvel. If the Amazing Adventures of Spider-Man was to be replaced at that time it means Universal did not have a price because nobody else was there to make the purchase.
Edit: Just thought of something. What we have not yet read is the contract for the Amazing Adventures of Spider-Man at Universal Studios Japan. Could it be that there was an eye towards replacing this version of the attraction down the road if tht contract expires or at least has to be renegotiated?
NemoRocks78
Seized
No, it's nothing like that, LOL. Completely different situation, and Dinosaur wasn't based on characters owned by another company.
There is no logical reason for them to have placed the same effects in the same scenes. It's a no brainer that they will be putting Transformers in Florida at some point, so wouldn't you think they would want to differentiate them? Now, I'm the first to say, that with Indy - no normal person would ever notice a similarity in the track layout. I've ridden Dinosaur 100+ times, and Indy a few dozen, and if I look objectively I would never have had any idea the track was the same. (However, the effects are completely different - there are no fireballs in Dino, for example.)
However, if I am a designer at Universal - wouldn't I want to mix it up - a bit? Maybe, put the effects in different spots in the ride?
I'm sorry, I feel so silly talking about this because it's so blatantly obvious, it's not even funny. Only the thinnest reasons for this are being touted as making it coincidence, or intentional for silly reasons ("Well, the story elements worked exactly the same way for Spidey, so why mess with the formula?" LOL.)
I guess you have all ridden the ride? If you had, you'd see that beat for beat, it is Spiderman. It could be slid in there so easily it's not even funny. Some of the transitions would be different, but scene for scene, almost effect for effect (and many EXACT), it's meant to go into that building eventually.
I'm sorry, I thought we were all on the same page, I didn't think I had to spell that out for you guys. Sorry about that.
Obviously, it was because of the deal. But...doesn't that speak to my theory that they are trying to get out of the Marvel business? If they are making SO much money on Spidey merch, or are having such a good time "sticking it" to Mickey, wouldn't they want to stay in the Spidey/marvel business?
Then you don't think like an exec.
It's EXACTLY what they would do.
You spread the cost out, making it very cheap to put Transformers in there when the time comes. Upgrading the infrastructure like that gives you benefit now, and benefit later. They get a one last bang out of Spidey and can slip in Transformers rather easily. You split up the costs over several years - like they are doing with Mine train - the only reason it's opening date is so late is so it can be spread in multiple years.
I mean, it's almost comical...you guys need to step back and look at this objectively. We've heard execs slip that Transformers may head to FL, they have designed the attraction in such a way that it could very easily slip right in the building (with no other logical reason to put their design under that constraint), and it's a property now owned by Disney.
Maybe it's too obvious, is that the problem people are having?
As to the merch, generic Spidey merch isn't paying for Universals bills. There isn't even much of it there - have you been in the store there? Quite a bit of it is generic stuff you can get at Wal-mart or elsewhere.
I hardly think it's pumping really serious money in, and certainly nothing like Potter, etc.
I have been on Transformers multiple times (was at Uni the last two weekends), and no, I do not see it "beat for beat" as being like Spidey. They share a fire effect (which in Spidey would not line up with the Transformers film if they can just throw it in there as you say), a water effect, and a freefall scene. Big deal. DarKastle has the same stuff - is Transformers coming to BGW? Those things work well with the ride system and story, as funny as you think that is.
I also don't buy the HD upgrade thing. Buying a couple HD projectors and spending the money to upgrade a film to be used for the next 2-3 years makes no sense when it comes to Universal. It's not gonna be some simple transition either - a ton of work will have to be done to the queue, sets, screens, ride system, maybe even new footage. They aren't known for spreading costs and construction out over multiple years like Disney. Mine Train would be up and running next year if it was at Universal. Despicable Me would've been a two-year job at Disney. :hammer:
This whole thing is being blown out of proportion. Universal licenses characters all the time from rival studios and the like - they aren't all big bad enemies looking to destroy each other like everyone makes them out to be. I truly believe Universal is making good cash off this Marvel deal, even while having to pay their "ultimate nemesis," and that they'll keep on doing so until they feel the need to make the change to MSHI.
The folks at Universal are intelligent, logical people. So, I don't understand why they've held on to Marvel this long after Disney bought them. I'm sure Disney loves having them pay royalties. They also love looking over their books. Universal holding on to Marvel just makes them look petty and desperate. Have they done it out of spite? - That's so third grade.:shrug:
Florida_is_hot
Well-Known Member
What grown-up can walk around dressed like spider-man?
I wonder after they told you about the Transformers ..... did they tell you about the WDW Monorail expansion?
I wonder after they told you about the Transformers ..... did they tell you about the WDW Monorail expansion?
WDW1974
Well-Known Member
So ... we still are having this discussion?
Transformers isn't replacing Spidey ... and he isn't leaving. As has been pointed out, the attractions are quite different. UNI is quite happy with having the Marvel characters in IOA and, in case you haven't paid attention, they've been a MAJOR part of the marketing and merchandising of the resort since 1999 (oh, that was when the 'timeless' super heros of the Marvel universe were considered old and tired and something for comic geeks only).
There seems to be some misconception that UNI suddenly wants out of having the characters when they are at an all-time high in popularity because that makes so much sense in the fanboi world, right? Sure it does. UNI wants the characters and absolutely doesn't care whether the checks are cashed by Disney or not. This is the entertainment business and it is an incestuous one. This is a win-win scenario for both parties.
The scary thing is Disney IS considering to some degree basing parks around Marvel properties in both Paris and Anaheim. This is all very blue sky at this point ... and more the work of Imagineers looking to remain relevant and hold onto positions in the future. But it still is a scary proposition for those of us who think this is still a bad fit in the theme park world. Of course, it is also telling that rumors suggested the characters would find a home in Shanghai and all intel points to this being totally nonsense (thankfully).
I also wonder just how popular Marvel merchandise is in general ... I know that the Disney outlet stores in FLA have had loads of the stuff for as much as 70% off for over a year now. I also noticed that there was no Marvel stuff to be had at MK, TPFKaTD-MGMS and EPCOT in March and I saw none at DLP a few weeks ago. Did see lots of Marvel/Avengers stuff at the Disney Store in Paris.
Transformers isn't replacing Spidey ... and he isn't leaving. As has been pointed out, the attractions are quite different. UNI is quite happy with having the Marvel characters in IOA and, in case you haven't paid attention, they've been a MAJOR part of the marketing and merchandising of the resort since 1999 (oh, that was when the 'timeless' super heros of the Marvel universe were considered old and tired and something for comic geeks only).
There seems to be some misconception that UNI suddenly wants out of having the characters when they are at an all-time high in popularity because that makes so much sense in the fanboi world, right? Sure it does. UNI wants the characters and absolutely doesn't care whether the checks are cashed by Disney or not. This is the entertainment business and it is an incestuous one. This is a win-win scenario for both parties.
The scary thing is Disney IS considering to some degree basing parks around Marvel properties in both Paris and Anaheim. This is all very blue sky at this point ... and more the work of Imagineers looking to remain relevant and hold onto positions in the future. But it still is a scary proposition for those of us who think this is still a bad fit in the theme park world. Of course, it is also telling that rumors suggested the characters would find a home in Shanghai and all intel points to this being totally nonsense (thankfully).
I also wonder just how popular Marvel merchandise is in general ... I know that the Disney outlet stores in FLA have had loads of the stuff for as much as 70% off for over a year now. I also noticed that there was no Marvel stuff to be had at MK, TPFKaTD-MGMS and EPCOT in March and I saw none at DLP a few weeks ago. Did see lots of Marvel/Avengers stuff at the Disney Store in Paris.
jt04
Well-Known Member
I think the purchase came as I suprise. And any reimagining would take time and be expensive. They just put a ton of cash into IoA and I would imagine they will ride that wave as long as possible and then work on MSHI eventually.
I am suprised too they did not move faster but they also had some ownership changes so I am sure that is a huge factor also.
maxairmike
Well-Known Member
Welcome back, and perfect timing!
:lol:As for the merch comment, I've noticed the seeming regression of the original mass introduction of Marvel merchandise that occurred in 2010. I've been seeing much less, especially in the parks (where, now that you've pointed it out, I don't believe I've seen any since early last year), although there is still a fair bit in World of Disney and Once Upon A Toy as of my last visit to DTD.
I think part of that could have to do with the market over-lap between Universal, normal off-site toy shops, and now Disney getting in on the mix. It might have been a bit too much. Yes, there is Disney stuff in regular stores, but not the stuff you find at the parks. The Marvel stuff was just what you'd find in Wal-Mart or Toys R Us, with maybe a different box with the Disney Parks logo(s). Maybe once they can come up with some park exclusives, but right now as far as I've seen, it's what you can get everywhere else. Universal has the benefit of selling the items in an area that is themed to Marvel, so its a great tie-in and merchandise driver (does anyone really think the I Love Lucy, ET, etc. merch would sell outside of the park with the matching attraction/area to help drive it?), whereas Disney was just plopping the stuff in stores without any kind of tie-in whatsoever. It seems the "Look, we own Marvel now, so buy this stuff at Disney World!" approach didn't quite work.
Skip
Well-Known Member
Here we go...
Wait, wait, wait. Your argument changes every day. Before you were saying that Universal HAS to give up Marvel because the contract is set to expire. Right? Remember? Deadline Hollywood and all that? Or was that part of your book?
Disney and Universal do not care. It is that simple. Universal is paying the same amount to MARVEL (which now happens to be owned by Disney) as they always have since the park opened. There's no hand-wringing going on here... Universal pays royalties to FOX (for Simpsons) and SONY (for MIB), not to mention $$ to the Seuss estate, among others. Universal is more than happy to profit off the skyrocketing popularity of the characters. Disney (on a corporate level) certainly doesn't mind that they're getting some increased $$ out of the deal - they don't care that Disney (on the WDW, theme park level) can't make attractions. That's a drop in the bucket to them in the grand scheme of things.
As for looking over the books... nice try. It was established early on (and well publicized, I might add) that the theme park division of Disney is barred from so much taking a whiff of Universal Orlando's books to prevent a conflict of interest. But hey, you also seem to think the legal document outlining the contract between Marvel and Uni is a fake, so anything's possible with you, right?
I guess you could say you don't understand because you simply refuse to understand basic business principles.
Feel free to continue posting your 3rd grade, Disney-must-prevail/Universal-must-lose logic. I'll keep waiting on the link to the book you've allegedly written. :wave:
jt04
Well-Known Member
They did? I certainly missed that news. Could you provide a link please?
xdan0920
Think for yourselfer
The Transformers will replace Spider-Man. I was told this by a great source. I don't know any more details about it.
:ROFLOL:
Dynamite drop in.
Oh, the irony......
RSoxNo1
Well-Known Member
I was looking through Target the other day for a gift for my 6 year old nephew's birthday and was underwhelmed by the offerings of their Avengers Aisle. I found more unique Cars merchandise in store, but ultimately wound up buying him a Spiderman web/rope shooter (as opposed to a poorly reviewed silly string web shooter), some sort of Iron Man wrist launcher thing, and some Cars themed vinylmation monorails.
It really seems that not much has changed in children's toys in 20+ years.
AEfx
Well-Known Member
I'm glad someone gets it.
Spider-Man and Transformers don't even have a similar layout, so no, he doesn't get it. He's making unfounded assumptions, not unlike yourself.
WDWmazprty
Well-Known Member
:lookaroun :lol: :lol: