ChrisFL
Premium Member
You're really going with that huh? ok...
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New MARVEL attractions to Disney Parks
- Thread starter yipikyer
- Start date
You're really going with that huh? ok...
lazyboy97o
Well-Known Member
Except that the attraction, in design and announcement, predates the purchase of Marvel by years. The closest reason relating to Marvel would be that it started as another version of The Amazing Adventures of Spider-Man for Universal Studios Hollywood but the negotiations with Marvel, as the worldwide exclusivity of the contract in Orlando had lapsed, fell through and Universal opted to move forward with a Transformers attraction.
Universal does not own the rights to the Spiderman Movies
Universal does not own the rights to The Transformers Movies.
They own the rights to use both properties within inside their theme parks (different coasts)
Spiderman has another likely blockbuster series coming out starting this summer. It has a lager fanbase than Transformers does. Why on earth would Universal change it if the outcome of having Spiderman in the parks and not just being able to lose it without being bought? Universal is ready to rake in the rush of extra popularity on an already popular character thanks to the new movies.
The Amazing Adventures of Spiderman is a landmark for Islands of Adventure and Universal Orlando as well as the theme park world in general. You can bet there will likely be 2 or 3 hit Spiderman movies out of this new reboot and the fanbase is always large due to the general popularity of the now 60 year old character anyway.
The Amazing Adventures of Spiderman at Universal is not going anywhere soon.
Universal does not own the rights to The Transformers Movies.
They own the rights to use both properties within inside their theme parks (different coasts)
Spiderman has another likely blockbuster series coming out starting this summer. It has a lager fanbase than Transformers does. Why on earth would Universal change it if the outcome of having Spiderman in the parks and not just being able to lose it without being bought? Universal is ready to rake in the rush of extra popularity on an already popular character thanks to the new movies.
The Amazing Adventures of Spiderman is a landmark for Islands of Adventure and Universal Orlando as well as the theme park world in general. You can bet there will likely be 2 or 3 hit Spiderman movies out of this new reboot and the fanbase is always large due to the general popularity of the now 60 year old character anyway.
The Amazing Adventures of Spiderman at Universal is not going anywhere soon.
Skip
Well-Known Member
There are so many reasons the ride may be designed with similar elements... namely, the fact that fire and water effects are pretty staple features of such a ride?
The more likely answer, and one I'm surprised hasn't been brought up, is that it's easier to take the Spider-Man plot progression formula (as it's what works and makes the most of the ride system) and applies it to a different theme, rather than developing a completely new progression of events. The reason I say this is because Transformers isn't the first ride to closely mirror the scene events of Spider-Man: The Curse of DarKastle in Busch Gardens Williamsburg, which runs on an identical ride system, does the same damn thing. It's got the character jumping on the vehicle at the beginning, a portion of the ride with water sprays, a "heating up" heat blast element, and yes, a huge simulated fall. Does that mean DarKastle is going to replace Spider-Man?
As for your suggestions on Spider-Man's animation - completely false. I remember we had a disagreement before the redone attraction debuted - over whether or not the film was reanimated or just "updated." You suggested they basically just did adjustments to the existing film - which I can confidently now say is not true. Many of the motions and events are closely mimicked, but some are quite different or modified (easy ones are Scream's leap onto the vehicle, Doc Ock's zapping us to the ground with the cannon, and all of the pedestrians now running around the attraction). There was no simple replacement of textures in this upgrade - the entire film was redone.
Meanwhile, your suggestion that the redo of the film was "just some guys sitting at a computer" and thus not costing much is absurd. High quality CGI animation, based on an existing film or not, does not come cheap.
AEfx
Well-Known Member
OK. 
I guess we will all just have to make a date in five years and see.
If you guys think that the same exact effects appearing in the same exact times in two rides based on two franchises on opposite coasts has nothing to do with each other...I guess you can believe anything you want.
I have no personal wish for it to happen, but it seems clearly obvious that Marvel Island isn't long for this world. Everything else besides Spidey could be transformed rather instantly with signage changes, and the back-end of Spidey was updated to have the same tech as Transformers, which for some reason they designed with a story with the exact same effects in the same spots as Spidey.
Like I said, I have no personal care either way - it makes me wonder what makes some of you grip so hard in the opposite direction when the evidence is showing otherwise.
/shrug
I guess we will all just have to make a date in five years and see.
If you guys think that the same exact effects appearing in the same exact times in two rides based on two franchises on opposite coasts has nothing to do with each other...I guess you can believe anything you want.
I have no personal wish for it to happen, but it seems clearly obvious that Marvel Island isn't long for this world. Everything else besides Spidey could be transformed rather instantly with signage changes, and the back-end of Spidey was updated to have the same tech as Transformers, which for some reason they designed with a story with the exact same effects in the same spots as Spidey.
Like I said, I have no personal care either way - it makes me wonder what makes some of you grip so hard in the opposite direction when the evidence is showing otherwise.
/shrug
OK.
I guess we will all just have to make a date in five years and see.
If you guys think that the same exact effects appearing in the same exact times in two rides based on two franchises on opposite coasts has nothing to do with each other...I guess you can believe anything you want.
I have no personal wish for it to happen, but it seems clearly obvious that Marvel Island isn't long for this world. Everything else besides Spidey could be transformed rather instantly with signage changes, and the back-end of Spidey was updated to have the same tech as Transformers, which for some reason they designed with a story with the exact same effects in the same spots as Spidey.
Like I said, I have no personal care either way - it makes me wonder what makes some of you grip so hard in the opposite direction when the evidence is showing otherwise.
/shrug
Because there is more money to be made off of merch and attention from Spiderman and The Avengers company...and entire Marvel family versus Transformers more flash in the pan nature of films and...virtually nothing else.
Theme parks go where the most money is. Why on earth would they just give up a hot property? They don't ultimately care of Beuna Vista is the parent company as long as they get massive coin out of it. And they do. Not a hard concept to understand.
captainkidd
Well-Known Member
As much as I hate Transformers, this point is arguable to say in the least. If you look at the 2 series box office receipts, they're neck and neck.
AEfx
Well-Known Member
And not to mention, I'm sure it won't tank - but I don't see the furor happening over this new Spiderman series like the first one. Personally, I'm baffled - the first Spidey movie came out ten years ago, the last sequel only five years ago, who said, "Hey, let's reboot it!"
Like I said, I'm sure it will do OK...but I don't think it's going to be Avengers, and a lot of people who came out to finally see Spiderman on screen ten years ago might not be as excited this time around. I will be interested to see the results, could go either way, really.
I think you massively over-estimate the amount of Spidey merch they sell. It sure wasn't selling well in Hollywood - USH had all that stuff out on clearance and it still was sitting around, and that was two years ago when I was out there. And Spidey stuff isn't over-abundant as UO, partially I'm sure because Spiderman merch is pretty common at Wal-mart, etc. - nothing terribly special about it. And it certainly doesn't do anything like Potter #'s.
I'm not going to get into one of those endless armchair executive arguments you guys like to get in to about who "wins" with this current situation - personally, I think neither company wants to be in bed together, because it just makes things more complicated all the way around. Some people think Disney has them by the cajones, some think Uni has the upper hand - the truth is, the bottom line for both of them probably isn't enough (the money that does change hands) to affect much, so they'd rather just be done with it.
UO's investment in Marvel is silm, especially if they made over Spiderman into Transformers. Then you are talking a roller coaster and two pretty close to "off the shelf" carnie rides. Everything else is signage which could be changed out overnight if they really tried hard.
If there is a way for them both to bow out, without looking bad, my bet is they will take it. It's just logical. Universal isn't making some insane amount of money on Spiderman/Marvel stuff - they don't even HAVE that much. Something tells me if it was so profitable, there would be a lot more of it, not pretty much just them selling the same old Spidey pack you can get at Wal-mart without the theme park logo.
I love the Spiderman ride. It will truly be a sad day when it's no longer there, as it once stood as the greatest theme park ride in existence. But while you pooh-pooh Transformers, Universal thinks highly enough about it to be installing it in all their other parks - they apparently have confidence in it, whereas they only cloned Spidey once, even back when Disney wasn't even part of the picture.
lazyboy97o
Well-Known Member
As stated, it has to do with the details of the deal with Sony, which was focused more on output.
Even if Universal is not making much off of the Marvel deal, it is going to be hard to find a another property that comes as easily and likely cheaply as Marvel does. It would not surprise me in the least if the license to use Transformers in Florida would cost more than what is being paid for Marvel.
I am not sure how much can be read into the current situation by the past. Unfortunately the Universal parks do not have the best history of support. Neither park at Universal Orlando Resort is well designed for expansion and for years investment was minimal. Even now, the international parks are licensing deals. Good merchandizing has also long been lacking, and Marvel and its existing merchandizers are also involved in the products available for purchase.
As of now, Transformer: The Ride 3D has only been cloned once as well.
Plus, if Universal was planning years ago to ditch Marvel and replace the Amazing Adventures of Spider-Man with Transformers: The Ride 3D, why not still go forward with that plan? To spite Marvel's new owner, Disney? There is nothing public to indicate that Marvel would have purchased back the rights before Disney entered the picture. So Universal would have just dropped the rights, meaning just asking Disney for a pittance, which based on their actions with Paramount and Sony they would likely accept, would be better than a plan to just drop Marvel.
ChrisFL
Premium Member
OK.
I guess we will all just have to make a date in five years and see.
If you guys think that the same exact effects appearing in the same exact times in two rides based on two franchises on opposite coasts has nothing to do with each other...I guess you can believe anything you want.
So using your logic, Disney put Dinosaur in Animal Kingdom for temporary use because the ride track mimics exactly the Indy ride, so their plan all along MUST have been to change the ride to an Indy ride, right?
Forgetting entirely the fact that by using basically the same layout and design for a lot of elements, they save TONS of R&D costs
maxairmike
Well-Known Member
Well gee, about two years ago...what was the series of events that happened roughly two to three years ago? Let's recap: The USH/Marvel contract expires and Universal opts not to renew it. Now they're sitting on a bunch of Marvel mercy they need to clear out. Several months later (6-9 I believe) Disney buys Marvel in August of 2009.
Nah, the clearance prices on Spidey and other Marvel merch wouldn't have anything to do with that, just that Spidey isn't as good of a seller as people think.
NemoRocks78
Seized
So using your logic, Disney put Dinosaur in Animal Kingdom for temporary use because the ride track mimics exactly the Indy ride, so their plan all along MUST have been to change the ride to an Indy ride, right?
Forgetting entirely the fact that by using basically the same layout and design for a lot of elements, they save TONS of R&D costs
EXACTLY what I was thinking. :lol:
I'd say Spider-Man is probably the second biggest mover of merchandise in those parks outside of Potter. People run around there with their Spider-Man painted faces and t-shirts on. He's in literally EVERY single advertisement and the like too. I highly, highly doubt that the execs were thinking "hey, let's spend all this money on upgrading the projectors, film, and sets in Spidey right now for the hell of it so we'll be ready for Transformers in a few years." That's ridiculous.
unkadug
Follower of "Saget"The Cult
What is Marvel Mercy?
maxairmike
Well-Known Member
Captain Neo
Well-Known Member
I wish Disney would remove the garbage "dinosaur" overlay and go back to Countdown to Extinction
Captain Neo
Well-Known Member
Given Marvel's incredible track record for creating new characters (in the 1960's) they should have no problem coming up with popular new characters who are not affiliated with the Avengers, Spider-man, the X-Men or the Fantastic Four. Let's look at all the super-popular character Marvel created just last year.
There's... well.... um...
Okay, let's go back farther. 5 years! Surely in five years Marvel has created enough characters to fill an entire theme park, right? Right?
*sound of crickets chirping*
Seriously? Nothing in five years? The Runaways were 2006? AND they were affiliated with the Avengers? (Not to mention the fact that most people reading this post have no idea who they are and they are probably the most viable new creation Marvel has created since 2006....)
*nervous sweating*
Hey, look, jt is telling me Marvel can just crank out new characters at will. There is no way he is just pulling that theory out of thin air despite decades of history to the contrary. I mean, he's jt! (must fight urge to post eye roll icon!)
So 10 years. In the last decade, I bet Marvel has created a whole bunch of iconic characters. So we've got...
Bueller?
Nobody? Seriously? Nothing! The last really popular Marvel character was created decades ago? And it's not just Marvel but the entire industry which has failed to create popular new characters for decades?
Well, I guess they are due.
(couldn't resist)
Sentry would like to have a word
lazyboy97o
Well-Known Member
The same one that misleads you on US securities, copyright and trademark law?The Transformers will replace Spider-Man. I was told this by a great source. I don't know any more details about it.
The Transformers will replace Spider-Man. I was told this by a great source. I don't know any more details about it.
It is certainly not if that is what they told you.
AEfx
Well-Known Member
So using your logic, Disney put Dinosaur in Animal Kingdom for temporary use because the ride track mimics exactly the Indy ride, so their plan all along MUST have been to change the ride to an Indy ride, right?
Forgetting entirely the fact that by using basically the same layout and design for a lot of elements, they save TONS of R&D costs
No, it's nothing like that, LOL. Completely different situation, and Dinosaur wasn't based on characters owned by another company.
There is no logical reason for them to have placed the same effects in the same scenes. It's a no brainer that they will be putting Transformers in Florida at some point, so wouldn't you think they would want to differentiate them? Now, I'm the first to say, that with Indy - no normal person would ever notice a similarity in the track layout. I've ridden Dinosaur 100+ times, and Indy a few dozen, and if I look objectively I would never have had any idea the track was the same. (However, the effects are completely different - there are no fireballs in Dino, for example.)
However, if I am a designer at Universal - wouldn't I want to mix it up - a bit? Maybe, put the effects in different spots in the ride?
I'm sorry, I feel so silly talking about this because it's so blatantly obvious, it's not even funny. Only the thinnest reasons for this are being touted as making it coincidence, or intentional for silly reasons ("Well, the story elements worked exactly the same way for Spidey, so why mess with the formula?" LOL.)
I guess you have all ridden the ride? If you had, you'd see that beat for beat, it is Spiderman. It could be slid in there so easily it's not even funny. Some of the transitions would be different, but scene for scene, almost effect for effect (and many EXACT), it's meant to go into that building eventually.
I'm sorry, I thought we were all on the same page, I didn't think I had to spell that out for you guys. Sorry about that.
Obviously, it was because of the deal. But...doesn't that speak to my theory that they are trying to get out of the Marvel business? If they are making SO much money on Spidey merch, or are having such a good time "sticking it" to Mickey, wouldn't they want to stay in the Spidey/marvel business?
Then you don't think like an exec.
It's EXACTLY what they would do.
You spread the cost out, making it very cheap to put Transformers in there when the time comes. Upgrading the infrastructure like that gives you benefit now, and benefit later. They get a one last bang out of Spidey and can slip in Transformers rather easily. You split up the costs over several years - like they are doing with Mine train - the only reason it's opening date is so late is so it can be spread in multiple years.
I mean, it's almost comical...you guys need to step back and look at this objectively. We've heard execs slip that Transformers may head to FL, they have designed the attraction in such a way that it could very easily slip right in the building (with no other logical reason to put their design under that constraint), and it's a property now owned by Disney.
Maybe it's too obvious, is that the problem people are having?
As to the merch, generic Spidey merch isn't paying for Universals bills. There isn't even much of it there - have you been in the store there? Quite a bit of it is generic stuff you can get at Wal-mart or elsewhere.
I hardly think it's pumping really serious money in, and certainly nothing like Potter, etc.