News New Gondola Transportation - Disney Skyliner -

Rich T

Well-Known Member
...How did the little Swiss Chalet that operated out of MK's Skyway, fit with anything in the rest of the land.
This was probably a direct tribute to Walt that Roy wanted in the park, since Walt had the DL FL Station designed to look like a Swiss Chalet because it was a Swiss transport system. And it looked awesome in that area. And it was much beloved, because a lot of talent and care went into its design. As for fitting in, in both DL and MK, Fantasyland is largely based on European tales.
 

Creathir

Well-Known Member
Doppelmayr just posted a video of a new system similar to this. Three lines converge at one central hub with digital messages "floating" above cabins noting the destination.


I wonder what the odds are of Disney actually using THIS?

We have heard the price of around $200-$300 million for the WDW system.

Would a cost like that seem to include a routing system at the hub like this?
 

mmascari

Well-Known Member
The multiple destination switching aspect from the same station is the part that I don’t think Disney is doing.

In the video, did it actually do that though?

I saw a few close ups of some red moving parts, that might have done switching. But, it was hard to tell if they did switching, or were just part of the normal operation. The text didn't help me.

What I definitely saw were people getting out of one car, walking past an overhead sign for a new destination, getting in a new line and getting in a new car. With multiple lines all meeting in the same building. Which sounds exactly like what Disney is doing at the CBR Hub. I suppose the signs might be different, probably have icons/characters by the names. :happy:

I expect the Riviera station to be a passthrough that also allows boarding with no need to get off unless that's your destination. Presumably, the upstream station will send an empty car now and then if there's a line forming at Riviera. Simple communication between sites to request the empties, and only an issue at park open/close when there's extra demand. Plenty of empties in the middle of the day.
 

MisterPenguin

President of Animal Kingdom
Premium Member
In the video, did it actually do that though?

I saw a few close ups of some red moving parts, that might have done switching. But, it was hard to tell if they did switching, or were just part of the normal operation. The text didn't help me.

What I definitely saw were people getting out of one car, walking past an overhead sign for a new destination, getting in a new line and getting in a new car. With multiple lines all meeting in the same building. Which sounds exactly like what Disney is doing at the CBR Hub. I suppose the signs might be different, probably have icons/characters by the names. :happy:

I expect the Riviera station to be a passthrough that also allows boarding with no need to get off unless that's your destination. Presumably, the upstream station will send an empty car now and then if there's a line forming at Riviera. Simple communication between sites to request the empties, and only an issue at park open/close when there's extra demand. Plenty of empties in the middle of the day.

I agree. Nothing in the video showed gondolas switching 'ropes'. Tracking down a Gooogle-translated description of this lift, it seems that it is two ropes. This is a turning station for one rope with an on/off to another rope which has its terminus at this station.
 

bclane

Well-Known Member
In the video, did it actually do that though?

I saw a few close ups of some red moving parts, that might have done switching. But, it was hard to tell if they did switching, or were just part of the normal operation. The text didn't help me.

What I definitely saw were people getting out of one car, walking past an overhead sign for a new destination, getting in a new line and getting in a new car. With multiple lines all meeting in the same building. Which sounds exactly like what Disney is doing at the CBR Hub. I suppose the signs might be different, probably have icons/characters by the names. :happy:

I expect the Riviera station to be a passthrough that also allows boarding with no need to get off unless that's your destination. Presumably, the upstream station will send an empty car now and then if there's a line forming at Riviera. Simple communication between sites to request the empties, and only an issue at park open/close when there's extra demand. Plenty of empties in the middle of the day.
You might be right and I misunderstood what was happening in the video. I know little about these things except that I have loved riding in them ever since I was a kid and really look forward to Disney opening theirs.
 

flynnibus

Premium Member
I agree. Nothing in the video showed gondolas switching 'ropes'. Tracking down a Gooogle-translated description of this lift, it seems that it is two ropes. This is a turning station for one rope with an on/off to another rope which has its terminus at this station.

It's a transfer point up on the mountain. The system is a terminus for multiple lines throughout this ski region. Single lines with people transfer it appears.

http://www.flexenbahn.ski/en/facts-and-figures.html

Note the reference that says all four lines.. 45m euro...
 

GeneralKnowledge

Well-Known Member
The multiple destination switching aspect from the same station is the part that I don’t think Disney is doing.

@Lift Blog may correct me on this but I’m pretty sure an automated rope switching system is close to impossible. I believe that keeping the load balanced on the different ropes wouldn’t work out. These systems can be designed for all one way travel on a rope (like at a ski area) but they have to have cars on the return side, they can’t have an empty rope. The spacing of the cars also has to be pretty consistent on the line.

If all of the cars leaving Pop weren’t immediately coming back you’d end up with an empty rope (or at least a severely unbalanced one). I can only imagine that they’d have to compensate for the traffic flow by varying the speeds on the haul rope to accommodate for traffic flow which would kill the drive equipment.

The queues you have to wait in while switching lines accomplish the load balancing the system requires. From a theoretical standpoint if you auto-routed the cars, any queueing you’d be eliminating at the switch points would have to be made up by queuing the cars due to the resulting traffic jams.

The bottom line is the added complication isn’t close to being worthwhile both financially and from a guest experience perspective. The system would clog up, regularly break down, and end up being more annoying to the guests than the novelty of preselecting their destination is worth.
 

Goofyernmost

Well-Known Member
You have been here since 2003 and have 20,940 posts. I can't begin to understand how in that time you have not learned how fan sites work. I hear people in my office constantly discussing what a local sports team should or shouldn't have done, despite the fact that they have no influence over the outcome. The purpose of a fan site like this is to discuss, it's ridiculous to expect people to not discuss project at every point from announcement to retirement.

As for the gondola just being a "utility", that should not be an excuse for a less then well thought out design. Road signs are just a utility, so why doesn't Disney use the same green signs like everyone else?

Why did they bother to make the RCFD station look like this, it's just a fire house?

View attachment 249822

Why does the pet care center look like this, it's just a kennel...

View attachment 249823
Ok, things that can be connectively themed to the function of the building itself are fine. But, tell me, what could they possibly do that could connect a gondola station with Epcot or DHS or the resorts that they haven't already done. Should the make the stations look like a gondola compete with cables strung about or look like Spaceship Earth or France in Epcot. Maybe they should be designed to connect with whatever part of the parks that they happen to connect too. I'm at a loss to understand what is expected and why and which way it would have to lean. It is easy enough to make a fire house look like a cartoonish fire house or a kennel to look like a dog house, but, what do you do with a gondola station that is randomly ending in differently themed areas without either making it look gaudy (which is something that just about everyone would not want) or making it look cartoonish or like everything it is connecting too.

And yes I do know how the boards work, but, every once in a while it just gets way to over the top in ridiculous expectations without even a small amount of common sense or understanding of the complexity of the situation when coupled with those wild expectations and surroundings. This is a cool utility project. It's different and it's fun, but, it has to exist within reasonable expectation because it is NOT an attraction. It's a glorified bus stop.
 

Lift Blog

Well-Known Member
@Lift Blog may correct me on this but I’m pretty sure an automated rope switching system is close to impossible. I believe that keeping the load balanced on the different ropes wouldn’t work out. These systems can be designed for all one way travel on a rope (like at a ski area) but they have to have cars on the return side, they can’t have an empty rope. The spacing of the cars also has to be pretty consistent on the line.

If all of the cars leaving Pop weren’t immediately coming back you’d end up with an empty rope (or at least a severely unbalanced one). I can only imagine that they’d have to compensate for the traffic flow by varying the speeds on the haul rope to accommodate for traffic flow which would kill the drive equipment.

The queues you have to wait in while switching lines accomplish the load balancing the system requires. From a theoretical standpoint if you auto-routed the cars, any queueing you’d be eliminating at the switch points would have to be made up by queuing the cars due to the resulting traffic jams.

The bottom line is the added complication isn’t close to being worthwhile both financially and from a guest experience perspective. The system would clog up, regularly break down, and end up being more annoying to the guests than the novelty of preselecting their destination is worth.

These machines are designed to deal with very dynamic loads. At the ski resort I work, we take the cabins off our two gondola systems every night. In the morning, when we are half way putting them back on, one side is completely full of gondolas while the other half of the line is totally empty. We wouldn't want to run all day like that, but it makes no difference in the ability of the lift to manage the load.

The key to any sort of switching setup is to have cabins entering and leaving each rope loop at constant intervals. What I believe Disney and Doppelmayr decided is the complexity/expense/lost capacity from having cabins splitting off from and merging into different lines was not worth overcoming the minor inconvenience of guests having to transfer once.

Depending on how it is setup, the International Gateway-Riviera-CBR line may use multiple rope loops but the cabins would make one big loop like a normal gondola line.

Approximate travel times at maximum D-Line speed:
International Gateway to Riviera: 4.8 minutes
International Gateway to CBR South: 7.5 minutes
DHS to CBR South: 2.9 minutes
Pop/AoA to CBR South: 2.1 minutes
DHS to International Gateway: 12.4 minutes
Pop/AoA to International Gateway: 11.6 minutes
 
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Bill Cipher

Well-Known Member
In the Parks
Yes
Haven’t seen anyone mention this yet, but zoom in on the wrap of the red gondola right outside of the Hollywood Studios Station.
syfty57897844-613x367.jpg

Looks quite marvelous! ;);) *wink wink nudge nudge*
 

TrojanUSC

Well-Known Member
Ok, things that can be connectively themed to the function of the building itself are fine. But, tell me, what could they possibly do that could connect a gondola station with Epcot or DHS or the resorts that they haven't already done. Should the make the stations look like a gondola compete with cables strung about or look like Spaceship Earth or France in Epcot. Maybe they should be designed to connect with whatever part of the parks that they happen to connect too. I'm at a loss to understand what is expected and why and which way it would have to lean. It is easy enough to make a fire house look like a cartoonish fire house or a kennel to look like a dog house, but, what do you do with a gondola station that is randomly ending in differently themed areas without either making it look gaudy (which is something that just about everyone would not want) or making it look cartoonish or like everything it is connecting too.

And yes I do know how the boards work, but, every once in a while it just gets way to over the top in ridiculous expectations without even a small amount of common sense or understanding of the complexity of the situation when coupled with those wild expectations and surroundings. This is a cool utility project. It's different and it's fun, but, it has to exist within reasonable expectation because it is NOT an attraction. It's a glorified bus stop.

I think people are upset that the Epcot and Hollywood Studios stations are off-the-shelf gondola stations you'd find anywhere else in the world, with some random theming elements affixed to it so that they blend a bit. By comparison, the Caribbean Beach station is a purpose-built structure that is obviously designed from scratch. Can you not see this from the design?
 

marni1971

Park History nut
Premium Member
Ok, things that can be connectively themed to the function of the building itself are fine. But, tell me, what could they possibly do that could connect a gondola station with Epcot or DHS or the resorts that they haven't already done. Should the make the stations look like a gondola compete with cables strung about or look like Spaceship Earth or France in Epcot. Maybe they should be designed to connect with whatever part of the parks that they happen to connect too. I'm at a loss to understand what is expected and why and which way it would have to lean. It is easy enough to make a fire house look like a cartoonish fire house or a kennel to look like a dog house, but, what do you do with a gondola station that is randomly ending in differently themed areas without either making it look gaudy (which is something that just about everyone would not want) or making it look cartoonish or like everything it is connecting too.

And yes I do know how the boards work, but, every once in a while it just gets way to over the top in ridiculous expectations without even a small amount of common sense or understanding of the complexity of the situation when coupled with those wild expectations and surroundings. This is a cool utility project. It's different and it's fun, but, it has to exist within reasonable expectation because it is NOT an attraction. It's a glorified bus stop.
The problem may stem by how the station appearances have changed over the past year.

I just pray the PoP stop isn’t value engineered. It looked truly something.
 

Goofyernmost

Well-Known Member
I think people are upset that the Epcot and Hollywood Studios stations are off-the-shelf gondola stations you'd find anywhere else in the world, with some random theming elements affixed to it so that they blend a bit. By comparison, the Caribbean Beach station is a purpose-built structure that is obviously designed from scratch. Can you not see this from the design?
As far as Epcot is concerned the station is basically in World Showcase. You're saying that they are putting in a station that you would find anywhere else in the world? What? Man, what a departure from theme that is! I don't know what the design is for Studios, so I cannot comment. By comparison, you are implying that the Caribbean Beach station DOES stay in theme, so basically you are saying that they are indeed staying with theme and as soon as we recognize what theme is... all will be OK.

Your last sentence has me puzzled in a way. Are you asking me if I have seen the station for CBR? No, like many I am taking your word because I have never visited CBR at all and I do not know what the design is, but, it really doesn't matter. It is still a glorified bus stop no matter where it is placed. Why not just talk about how insanely expensive any resort in WDW is, instead of how they theme that particular bus stop.
 

Goofyernmost

Well-Known Member
The problem may stem by how the station appearances have changed over the past year.

I just pray the PoP stop isn’t value engineered. It looked truly something.
Well, it is only significant to the (6) of you that claim to have seen the originals. I haven't and even if I did I take no stock in concept art because I know it changes every day. I'll pay attention to it when it is done, in the meantime I have a lot more important things to get frustrated over then a gondola station in WDW. I'll leave that to you. I've had my say. I'm perfectly clear about how much of a non-problem this problem is to me. Talk amongst yourselves.
 

marni1971

Park History nut
Premium Member
Well, it is only significant to the (6) of you that claim to have seen the originals. I haven't and even if I did I take no stock in concept art because I know it changes every day. I'll pay attention to it when it is done, in the meantime I have a lot more important things to get frustrated over then a gondola station in WDW. I'll leave that to you. I've had my say. I'm perfectly clear about how much of a non-problem this problem is to me. Talk amongst yourselves.
Thank you for letting us all know.
 

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