New entrance at DHS

The Empress Lilly

The Empress Lilly

Well-Known Member
marni1971 said:
It was explained to me as a duel way tram road parallel bridge across World Drive next to BVD and above the backstage access road, passing behind the Amphitheatre and across the Crescent Lake canal, then turning to a new tram drop off at the current bus station area.

But I dare say decked parking on part of the current lot is preferable today.

Through the magic of iPad I give you a high tech, extremely detailed plan:

View attachment 28697
Click to expand...
What they ought to consider is building that decked parking lot on space as below. The last remaining plot of suitable land in the DHS / hotel area that is as yet undeveloped. They won't need it for a CBR exapnsion. It is just a short tram ride to DHS from there - you can not build on the land in between, but a road is fine.

I shall spare you all my fanboi fantasies about Spir....erm about building a bus hub on the lower floor for Pop, AoA, CBR, and DHS. Connected to DHS with a fast high volume transportation and boats to these hotels. To bring some fun and magic back to Disney transport (and efficiency too!)

33elzx5.jpg
 
PirateFrank

PirateFrank

Well-Known Member
This may be a stupid question...so forgive me. If someone has an explanation, I'm all ears. But *why* has the land between Victory Way and the creek bordering DHS on the east deemed 'wetlands unfit for development?'

Afaik, WDW has already used some of this 'unfit' land when it build catastrophe canyon and the LMA theater -- they had to redirect the creek in order to build these areas. no?

Moreover, when WDW was first built, former swampland was reclaimed/reclassified, through environmental engineering. In fact, wasn't the location where the MK is actually swampland and the elevation changes due to landfill from the Seven Seas Lagoon helped change that?

There might be a cost/benefit issue here -- and please, those with environmental engineering backgrounds, fill us in....But could the land between Victory and the creek be reclaimed, if they build up landfill on the location (presumably from suitable land elsewhere on the property in less logistical locations) and re-direct any waterways?

Also, it would seem logical that if they utilized landfill from another location inside WDW and reclassify those lands as unsuitable -- so long as there's no change in the proportions of zoning, that this scenario could be worked out.

It seems to me that onerous tramways across World Dr, parking garages (resulting in massive space shortages during construction)....all present logistical headaches.

Reclaiming this land -- along with a better use of the land within DHS, seems like a far cleaner solution.
 
muteki

muteki

Well-Known Member
Not claiming to be an expert at all here, but you would think that land MGM was built on was in a similar state before it was built, and it is right next to the land in question. If they could build MGM there 20+ years ago, that they could extend it there now (if they wanted to).
 
scpergj

scpergj

Well-Known Member
The Empress Lilly said:
What they ought to consider is building that decked parking lot on space as below. The last remaining plot of suitable land in the DHS / hotel area that is as yet undeveloped. They won't need it for a CBR exapnsion. It is just a short tram ride to DHS from there - you can not build on the land in between, but a road is fine.

I shall spare you all my fanboi fantasies about Spir....erm about building a bus hub on the lower floor for Pop, AoA, CBR, and DHS. Connected to DHS with a fast high volume transportation and boats to these hotels. To bring some fun and magic back to Disney transport (and efficiency too!)
Click to expand...

That could be a good use for PeopleMover type technology, couldn't it? Hmm....that would be fun!
 
Tom

Tom

Beta Return
PirateFrank said:
This may be a stupid question...so forgive me. If someone has an explanation, I'm all ears. But *why* has the land between Victory Way and the creek bordering DHS on the east deemed 'wetlands unfit for development?'

Afaik, WDW has already used some of this 'unfit' land when it build catastrophe canyon and the LMA theater -- they had to redirect the creek in order to build these areas. no?

Moreover, when WDW was first build, former swampland was reclaimed/reclassified, through environmental engineering. In fact, wasn't the location where the MK is actually swampland and the elevation changes due to landfill from the Seven Seas Lagoon helped change that?

There might be a cost/benefit issue here -- and please, those with environmental engineering backgrounds, fill us in....But could the land between Victory and the creek be reclaimed, if they build up landfill on the location (presumably from suitable land elsewhere on the property in less logistical locations) and re-direct any waterways?

Also, it would seem logical that if they utilized landfill from another location inside WDW and reclassify those lands as unsuitable -- so long as there's no change in the proportions of zoning, that this scenario could be worked out.

It seems to me that onerous tramways across World Dr, parking garages (resulting in massive space shortages during construction)....all present logistical headaches.

Reclaiming this land -- along with a better use of the land within DHS, seems like a far cleaner solution.
Click to expand...

The Walt Disney Company is an expert at water mitigation. If land is currently considered "wet lands" it's because they chose not to develop or mitigate it when doing other work.

The entire property was "wet lands" when they moved in. Hence the miles of canals and hundreds of retention ponds.

If they want to expand DHS into the "wet land" area, sure it will take a mountain of paperwork....but they do it all the time. They had to accommodate a LOT of water when building New Fantasyland and the Tangled Restrooms, by adding and relocating retention ponds and installing huge underground storage tanks. And as you said, they re-routed a waterway the last time they "expanded" DHS.

No reason why they can't do it again. It's just a lot of work and a lot of money....but probably less than building a parking lot across the highway with a 1/2 mile tram driveway.
 
I

Ignohippo

Well-Known Member
edwardtc said:
The Walt Disney Company is an expert at water mitigation. If land is currently considered "wet lands" it's because they chose not to develop or mitigate it when doing other work.

The entire property was "wet lands" when they moved in. Hence the miles of canals and hundreds of retention ponds.

If they want to expand DHS into the "wet land" area, sure it will take a mountain of paperwork....but they do it all the time. They had to accommodate a LOT of water when building New Fantasyland and the Tangled Restrooms, by adding and relocating retention ponds and installing huge underground storage tanks. And as you said, they re-routed a waterway the last time they "expanded" DHS.

No reason why they can't do it again. It's just a lot of work and a lot of money....but probably less than building a parking lot across the highway with a 1/2 mile tram driveway.
Click to expand...


Exactly. It seems like the land between Cypress Drive (the World Drive entrance) and the creek would be perfect for expansion. It almost looks as through the creek frames the DHS berm as it is now.
 
Tom

Tom

Beta Return
Ignohippo said:
Exactly. It seems like the land between Cypress Drive (the World Drive entrance) and the creek would be perfect for expansion. It almost looks as through the creek frames the DHS berm as it is now.
Click to expand...

But really, if they tore down LMA, Canyon, the backlot tram areas, and a couple support buildings....I believe they could fit something fairly substantial without having to move the creek or mitigate too much wet areas.

And let's not kid ourselves and think that any new land in DHS would be bigger than the space taken up by those attractions. We all know they don't "go big" in Orlando, unfortunately.
 
articos

articos

Well-Known Member
PirateFrank said:
This may be a stupid question...so forgive me. If someone has an explanation, I'm all ears. But *why* has the land between Victory Way and the creek bordering DHS on the east deemed 'wetlands unfit for development?'

Afaik, WDW has already used some of this 'unfit' land when it build catastrophe canyon and the LMA theater -- they had to redirect the creek in order to build these areas. no?

Moreover, when WDW was first built, former swampland was reclaimed/reclassified, through environmental engineering. In fact, wasn't the location where the MK is actually swampland and the elevation changes due to landfill from the Seven Seas Lagoon helped change that?

There might be a cost/benefit issue here -- and please, those with environmental engineering backgrounds, fill us in....But could the land between Victory and the creek be reclaimed, if they build up landfill on the location (presumably from suitable land elsewhere on the property in less logistical locations) and re-direct any waterways?

Also, it would seem logical that if they utilized landfill from another location inside WDW and reclassify those lands as unsuitable -- so long as there's no change in the proportions of zoning, that this scenario could be worked out.

It seems to me that onerous tramways across World Dr, parking garages (resulting in massive space shortages during construction)....all present logistical headaches.

Reclaiming this land -- along with a better use of the land within DHS, seems like a far cleaner solution.
Click to expand...
The short version: The majority of the land within Reedy Creek is either swamp/wetland or forest. The wetlands have been classified into Class 1 and Class 2. There is a large swath of conservation land that extends about 500 feet along both sides of the actual Reedy Creek, plus some other areas that are deemed environmentally sensitive. That conservation land is the Wildlife Management/Conservation Area, and it pretty much goes up the center of the property, heading northwest at the north end of the property. The WMCA is currently completely off-limits to development via agreements between RCID and the state, U.S. Fish & Game and the SFWMD. It's automatically Class 1 wetlands. There are other spaces within the RCID that are also Class 1 wetlands, due to various other reasons: Essential habitat lands for endangered species, conservation easements called out by RCID outside the WMCA. Any Class 1 conservation area, with the exception of a few spots with long term permits, are 99% no go for any development. There's also Class 2 wetlands. Class 2 are buildable, with mitigation. DHS was built on partially buildable land, partially Class 2 wetlands, which is why Catastrophe Cyn wasn't a problem. There is a large swath of Class 1 that they would have to get RCID dispensation to build through surrounding the parking lot if the entry was to connect to Victory. I don't know the specific reason that plot is Class 1. Might be a nesting area, might be a lowland area, or may be an offshoot of the creek flowing through there, or some other reason. My thought is it's an easement.

The MK was built as part of the initial agreements for the property, so all that earth-moving was all done based on the initial planning of the parks while setting up the property. But when it comes down to it, if Disney wants to build somewhere, RCID/Disney will make it happen, it's just expensive, both in funds and land management.
 
Tom

Tom

Beta Return
articos said:
The short version: The majority of the land within Reedy Creek is either swamp/wetland or forest. The wetlands have been classified into Class 1 and Class 2. There is a large swath of conservation land that extends about 500 feet along both sides of the actual Reedy Creek, plus some other areas that are deemed environmentally sensitive. That conservation land is the Wildlife Management/Conservation Area, and it pretty much goes up the center of the property, heading northwest at the north end of the property. The WMCA is currently completely off-limits to development via agreements between RCID and the state, U.S. Fish & Game and the SFWMD. It's automatically Class 1 wetlands. There are other spaces within the RCID that are also Class 1 wetlands, due to various other reasons: Essential habitat lands for endangered species, conservation easements called out by RCID outside the WMCA. Any Class 1 conservation area, with the exception of a few spots with long term permits, are 99% no go for any development. There's also Class 2 wetlands. Class 2 are buildable, with mitigation. DHS was built on partially buildable land, partially Class 2 wetlands, which is why Catastrophe Cyn wasn't a problem. There is a large swath of Class 1 that they would have to get RCID dispensation to build through surrounding the parking lot if the entry was to connect to Victory. I don't know what the specific reason that plot is Class 1. Might be a nesting area, might be a lowland area, or may be an offshoot of the creek flowing through there, or some other reason. My thought is it's an easement.

The MK was built as part of the initial agreements for the property, so all that earth-moving was all done based on the initial planning of the parks while setting up the property. But when it comes down to it, if Disney wants to build somewhere, RCID/Disney will make it happen, it's just expensive, both in funds and land management.
Click to expand...

Yeah....that's what I was going to say, but you beat me to it :lookaround:

Nice explanation though. Better than all the speculation we've been dishing out :)
 
articos

articos

Well-Known Member
edwardtc said:
The Walt Disney Company is an expert at water mitigation. If land is currently considered "wet lands" it's because they chose not to develop or mitigate it when doing other work.

The entire property was "wet lands" when they moved in. Hence the miles of canals and hundreds of retention ponds.

If they want to expand DHS into the "wet land" area, sure it will take a mountain of paperwork....but they do it all the time. They had to accommodate a LOT of water when building New Fantasyland and the Tangled Restrooms, by adding and relocating retention ponds and installing huge underground storage tanks. And as you said, they re-routed a waterway the last time they "expanded" DHS.

No reason why they can't do it again. It's just a lot of work and a lot of money....but probably less than building a parking lot across the highway with a 1/2 mile tram driveway.
Click to expand...
Yes to all of the above.
 
matt9112

matt9112

Well-Known Member
the Death star assembly will stretch from the highway all the way to CBR in fact the CBR lake/pond will be drained to cool the reactor cores during construction before the ships own cooling system is operational. as the largest (by room) resort on prop CBR will be retooled into an interment camp for roving gangs of Brazilian tourists to help with the low skilled construction of some components.

when the competition is vaporized.....imagine the merch sales....
 
PirateFrank

PirateFrank

Well-Known Member
articos said:
The short version: The majority of the land within Reedy Creek is either swamp/wetland or forest. The wetlands have been classified into Class 1 and Class 2. There is a large swath of conservation land that extends about 500 feet along both sides of the actual Reedy Creek, plus some other areas that are deemed environmentally sensitive. That conservation land is the Wildlife Management/Conservation Area, and it pretty much goes up the center of the property, heading northwest at the north end of the property. The WMCA is currently completely off-limits to development via agreements between RCID and the state, U.S. Fish & Game and the SFWMD. It's automatically Class 1 wetlands. There are other spaces within the RCID that are also Class 1 wetlands, due to various other reasons: Essential habitat lands for endangered species, conservation easements called out by RCID outside the WMCA. Any Class 1 conservation area, with the exception of a few spots with long term permits, are 99% no go for any development. There's also Class 2 wetlands. Class 2 are buildable, with mitigation. DHS was built on partially buildable land, partially Class 2 wetlands, which is why Catastrophe Cyn wasn't a problem. There is a large swath of Class 1 that they would have to get RCID dispensation to build through surrounding the parking lot if the entry was to connect to Victory. I don't know the specific reason that plot is Class 1. Might be a nesting area, might be a lowland area, or may be an offshoot of the creek flowing through there, or some other reason. My thought is it's an easement.

The MK was built as part of the initial agreements for the property, so all that earth-moving was all done based on the initial planning of the parks while setting up the property. But when it comes down to it, if Disney wants to build somewhere, RCID/Disney will make it happen, it's just expensive, both in funds and land management.
Click to expand...


Thanks for this! I appreciate the explanation.
 
danlb_2000

danlb_2000

Premium Member
articos said:
The short version: The majority of the land within Reedy Creek is either swamp/wetland or forest. The wetlands have been classified into Class 1 and Class 2. There is a large swath of conservation land that extends about 500 feet along both sides of the actual Reedy Creek, plus some other areas that are deemed environmentally sensitive. That conservation land is the Wildlife Management/Conservation Area, and it pretty much goes up the center of the property, heading northwest at the north end of the property. The WMCA is currently completely off-limits to development via agreements between RCID and the state, U.S. Fish & Game and the SFWMD. It's automatically Class 1 wetlands. There are other spaces within the RCID that are also Class 1 wetlands, due to various other reasons: Essential habitat lands for endangered species, conservation easements called out by RCID outside the WMCA. Any Class 1 conservation area, with the exception of a few spots with long term permits, are 99% no go for any development. There's also Class 2 wetlands. Class 2 are buildable, with mitigation. DHS was built on partially buildable land, partially Class 2 wetlands, which is why Catastrophe Cyn wasn't a problem. There is a large swath of Class 1 that they would have to get RCID dispensation to build through surrounding the parking lot if the entry was to connect to Victory. I don't know the specific reason that plot is Class 1. Might be a nesting area, might be a lowland area, or may be an offshoot of the creek flowing through there, or some other reason. My thought is it's an easement.

The MK was built as part of the initial agreements for the property, so all that earth-moving was all done based on the initial planning of the parks while setting up the property. But when it comes down to it, if Disney wants to build somewhere, RCID/Disney will make it happen, it's just expensive, both in funds and land management.
Click to expand...

How dare you come in there and throw around actual facts, that just won't be tolerated, now back to the wild speculation. ;)
 

Register on WDWMAGIC. This sidebar will go away, and you'll see fewer ads.

Back
Top Bottom