My Magic + details ...

[wogwog]

Just a note with some new info that I receieved. I wanted to put it here, but my part in any discussion will be up on Spirited News, Obervations & Thoughts IV starting on or about page 175.



Here's some information (weird somewhat troubling stuff) related to NGE that has just come into my possession and the source has allowed me to share with just a few slight omissions and edits of mine that in no way change the substance of the material. Here it is ...

<<<

A lot of resources have been directed at overcoming line-of-sight deficiencies or occlusions to gather data within structures. A focus on where in a given store, or structure, a “target” (guest) dwells or hovers appears to be especially important as well as precise geolocation for any “down time” which I understand to mean time not on NGE’s scheduling.

Quasistatic magnetic field technology and investigation is referenced to reduce interference from indoor settings and problems relating to multipath propagation.

While I will stay away from specific surveillance technologies deployed, Disney has specified that its program will include the ability to “radically impact” tracking in part by marrying vision systems with depth sensors. “Characterizing” the image of each individual within a given setting to provide seamless monitoring from outdoor to indoor environs and back is heavily referenced.

The need to target and capture park guest characteristics with a specific focus on guest mobility…in part by “exploiting” the WiFi networking infrastructure “time-of-flight measurements…or precise localization” is incorporated in the NGE project.

There now exists an entire 'division' focused exclusively on data mining and artificial intelligence as well as advancing or adapting materials for both.

New types of biometric identification are cited, some are remarkable if achievable given their stealth nature. Meaning, you will have no notion that you are being ‘scanned and detected’ by this technology. As I've yet to receive confirmation this is actually operational, and it goes into the whole facial recognition discussion, I would rather leave it there for now.

With regard to what some individuals have revisited – the removal of the gates to Pleasure Island and what that signaled, as we have discussed, Walt Disney World now has no gates at its four main gates. The idea at PI was to increase traffic, to encourage the seamless flow from one end of Downtown Disney to the other. Not really a comparison here.

Unless, that is, you see each person passing through that ‘point of entry’ as a data point. And your desire is to measure that flow of data with remarkable precision.

It should also be mentioned that Disney addresses the aim/goal/mandate of NGE to include the forced “migration” of guests from “desirable areas and attractions” to “less popular ” locales.

Moreover, there is a referencing to “limitations on actual resources” that appears to indicate Disney is greatly motivated to strictly govern your experience which could include your exclusion if TWDC determines its limited resources at WDW could be better served by not providing you access. For example, a childless couple in the 45+ demo could be determined to be unworthy or ‘a drain’ on resources when contrasted with the potential of a young family with several additional revenue streams and new data lines for mining.

Known contractors in the sector like Lumidigm and Safran's L-1 Identity Solutions appear to not have the capabilities Disney is requiring for NGE. IQT, through its partners and alliances, is doing work that overlaps if not mirrors many elements NGE.

While I still cannot say if TWDC is both a developer and client, it seems unlikely Disney is riding solo on this given the scope of the technology and the many references to WDW being "the venue" for what are termed 'field experiments' with the same. Also, unlike previous moves, this is not merely a technology upgrade.

Many people might remember that at the last one of those, with the biometric reader installation, Disney used those words. They are not being used today. And, back then, when security concerns were raised, the very company doing the installation, based on the Lumidigm product, said all it would take is selecting an already existing option to capture all of the data that was raising these concerns.

Not very reassuring. Especially as we learn more about the level, the detail of scrutiny our every move seems to warrant.

...

Disney said it wasn't back then. Capturing the data, that is. Now, Disney is saying you (the guests) are "opting in" by wanting to experience their product at WDW. In a model whereby that guest really has no choice but to accept the aim/goal/mandate of NGE.>>>

1984<2013

 

[Clamman73]

...While I will stay away from specific surveillance technologies deployed, Disney has specified that its program will include the ability to “radically impact” tracking in part by marrying vision systems with depth sensors. “Characterizing” the image of each individual within a given setting to provide seamless monitoring from outdoor to indoor environs and back is heavily referenced.

The need to target and capture park guest characteristics with a specific focus on guest mobility…in part by “exploiting” the WiFi networking infrastructure “time-of-flight measurements…or precise localization” is incorporated in the NGE project.

There now exists an entire 'division' focused exclusively on data mining and artificial intelligence as well as advancing or adapting materials for both.

New types of biometric identification are cited, some are remarkable if achievable given their stealth nature. Meaning, you will have no notion that you are being ‘scanned and detected’ by this technology. As I've yet to receive confirmation this is actually operational, and it goes into the whole facial recognition discussion, I would rather leave it there for now.

This is all turning into what could be a great cyberpunk novel.

 

[dadddio]

Just a note with some new info that I receieved. I wanted to put it here, but my part in any discussion will be up on Spirited News, Obervations & Thoughts IV starting on or about page 175. ...

Disney said it wasn't back then. Capturing the data, that is. Now, Disney is saying you (the guests) are "opting in" by wanting to experience their product at WDW. In a model whereby that guest really has no choice but to accept the aim/goal/mandate of NGE.>>>

Four thoughts:

1) I'm not seeing a big deal if Disney wants to collect and analyze data about what their customers do and buy while in the WDW parks.

2) I reject the notion that guests have no choice. First of all, a guest could simply opt out of most all of MM+ and still have plenty of fun at WDW. Alternatively, people could simply opt not to go to WDW. Many, many people actually grow up just fine without visiting these parks. An entire spectrum of choices exist.

3) Dropping in seemingly nefarious words and phrases supposedly from a document without including the entire section (or even sentence) for context doesn't seem to be an honest reporting of an issue.

4) Isn't this just a rehash of what you posted to this thread just a couple pages back?

 

[Agent_P]

It was basically a cost saving measure. They used to have to staff cast entrance with security CMs that kinda checked the photo on your ID. But if you were a long time CM that the security guard knew but got fired and flashed any ID they would let you in. The new system double checks if you are a valid CM or not and if you are refused entry then there is a little camera with a speaker that you have to use to call a security CM so they can double check you are in the system show your drivers license then allowed in. They also eliminated recieving new stickers every year as a cost saving. 65000 CM having to get a sticker mailed and printed saved a lot of money. This conicided with the addition of the new security system at CM entrances.

IDs have had RFID chips in the for over seven years now. The new RFID entry has only been for the past two. It's also worthy to note that the IDs are not compatable with the park RFID entry and CMs have to still use the old turnstiles to come in.

One more thing I forgot to add. The chip is a short range chip and can only be read if it tapped to an RFID scanner so their is no GPS tracking going on.

The new Main Gate passes will have RFID in them and will have cast admission sensors that will be really restrictive. you will get 3 ( or how many admissions you receive) permanent RFID guest cards. And they can only enter after the Main Gate is swiped first. So if they want to Park Hop then the Main Gate owner has to Park Hop also. If you give them to friends or relatives, you have to make sure you get them back at the end of the day.

 

[CDavid]

2) I reject the notion that guests have no choice. First of all, a guest could simply opt out of most all of MM+ and still have plenty of fun at WDW. Alternatively, people could simply opt not to go to WDW. Many, many people actually grow up just fine without visiting these parks. An entire spectrum of choices exist.

For posters on a Disney discussion forum, do you really think even for a second that not going to Walt Disney World is really a viable option for most people? How many members here do you think fall into the category of people who grow up without visiting a Disney theme park?

Sure, we could all never set foot in the place again, but we tend to have a lot of time, money, and emotions wrapped up in Disney, even those of us not addicted to pixie-dust (maybe especially those who haven't overdosed - we still expect Disney to maintain its own standards and aren't willing to blindly accept things). It just isn't a realistic option to expect such persons to quietly go along with a debacle on the scale of NGE without raising (generally) perfectly legitimate objections.

Besides, do you also really believe the Disney company actually wants to alienate many of its most loyal consumers?

1) I'm not seeing a big deal if Disney wants to collect and analyze data about what their customers do and buy while in the WDW parks.

You can make pretty much anything sound innocent enough by speaking only in very general terms and not telling the whole story. Disney appears to be counting on that.

 

[stevehousse]

You guys are going crazy with this, it's stupid!

Disney isn't doing anything different than any other store or place you visit already doing this exact thing, data mining. it been going on for years and isnt going away. They are just now jumping on the bandwagon.

I think everyone needs to chill with the privacy issues and such! You are all acting like Disney is gonna give every cm with an iPad your credit card number and social security card!?!

Does it really bother you that much that they will know what rides you have reserved and where you will be eating later in the day or say "hi Steve" as you scan your band?

All these what ifs and maybe they will do this or that, is it insane that this many pages has been douped into privacy issues that have always been around no matter way kind of tech is used!

Can we go back to speculating more on Avatar or Star Wars Galaxy and how embarrassing the presentations for these were at D23!!! Or maybe actual facts or reviews first hand of the magic band experience!?!

 

[GrumpyFan]

You guys are going crazy with this, it's stupid!

Disney isn't doing anything different than any other store or place you visit already doing this exact thing, data mining. it been going on for years and isnt going away. They are just now jumping on the bandwagon.

I would argue that. They, like many others, have been doing it for years. They're just getting smarter and adding more automation to it.

 

[lazyboy97o]

You guys are going crazy with this, it's stupid!

Disney isn't doing anything different than any other store or place you visit already doing this exact thing, data mining. it been going on for years and isnt going away. They are just now jumping on the bandwagon.

I think everyone needs to chill with the privacy issues and such! You are all acting like Disney is gonna give every cm with an iPad your credit card number and social security card!?!

Does it really bother you that much that they will know what rides you have reserved and where you will be eating later in the day or say "hi Steve" as you scan your band?

All these what ifs and maybe they will do this or that, is it insane that this many pages has been douped into privacy issues that have always been around no matter way kind of tech is used!

Can we go back to speculating more on Avatar or Star Wars Galaxy and how embarrassing the presentations for these were at D23!!! Or maybe actual facts or reviews first hand of the magic band experience!?!

Does the supermarket tell the cashier where you were before you got there and where you are going afterwards? That is a difference and if this information is widely and easily available then it is a genuine cause for concern.

 

[stevehousse]

Does the supermarket tell the cashier where you were before you got there and where you are going afterwards? That is a difference and if this information is widely and easily available then it is a genuine cause for concern.

You really have a problem with some one saying to you" enjoy your dinner at chef mickeys later today! Mickey can't wait to see you" !?!

 

[dadddio]

For posters on a Disney discussion forum, do you really think even for a second that not going to Walt Disney World is really a viable option for most people?

For many on this forum, it seems that Disney can make no correct decision and that Universal makes no bad ones. One could easily imagine that these people might be happier if they skipped a Disney vacation.

Besides, do you also really believe the Disney company actually wants to alienate many of its most loyal consumers?

I do not. that's why the option that I led with is to simply opt out of those MM+ pieces that you do not want to be involved with.

You can make pretty much anything sound innocent enough by speaking only in very general terms and not telling the whole story. Disney appears to be counting on that.

You can also make practically anything seem nefarious if you single out specific words and phrases without including the surrounding passages for context. Some posters to this forum may perhaps be doing that.

 

[tare]

This magic + might not be as bad as I thought.

 

[Captain Chaos]

This magic + might not be as bad as I thought.

You are right... it is worse...

 

[lazyboy97o]

You really have a problem with some one saying to you" enjoy your dinner at chef mickeys later today! Mickey can't wait to see you" !?!

That is what Disney intends, but when opening that up to thousands of people it means including people who are less than scrupulous. It is also kind of creepy, especially when from any person.

 

[Captain Chaos]

For posters on a Disney discussion forum, do you really think even for a second that not going to Walt Disney World is really a viable option for most people? How many members here do you think fall into the category of people who grow up without visiting a Disney theme park?

Speaking only for myself here... spending a week in Orlando and have no plans to step foot into any of the 4 WDW parks or dining at any of the restaurants... in fact, I purchased my Universal tickets yesterday, including my HHN tickets, and I am planning on dining off WDW property every day and night... So some of us actually do stick to our guns, say what we mean, and mean what we say when we say we won't spend a dime in WDW until they give us a reason to... And this NGE crap, well, this may be the straw that broke the camel's back and keeps me from ever returning there again... Unlike mentally ill Disney fans, I can have fun anywhere I go...

 

[Buried20KLeague]

That was a serious question.

The post that you responded to was about how FP+ would work when it was operational (and frankly didn't include any new information). Your post was about how FP+ testers were getting preferential treatment over current FP system users and that the testers weren't limited to the rules that will be in place when it goes live. I simply asked you how you got to your post from his post. I merely wanted you to expound on your post so that we all would understand your point better.

It should be noted that testers certainly are getting preferential treatment since they are able to get FP+ FPs and use the current system. Also, since this is a test, it's not surprising that everything isn't working as it would when FP+ goes live. For instance, as I understand it, FP+ testers have full use of the current FP system, whereas once FP+ goes live, they will apparently not be able to pull same-day FPs until they begins to use their prereserved FPs, per the T&C.

It didn't have to be "new information". It was confirmation, from a rep specifically trained to disseminate "official" information on this program to anyone who asked. That makes this "CONFIRMED information" on the program, which is more than we had before.

My post had nothing to do with current FP users.

There are a couple different ways that this information works against what the testers have posted here:

"If a guest misses their Fastpass window, they will not receive another Fastpass"

"The initial rollout is planned for 3 Fastpasses per guest per day, including the Magic Kingdom"

And if you agree with me that testers are getting preferential treatment... Why respond to my post??

Beyond that, my comment was to further back up what I've said to those testers that have said they've loved the program... Which is "talk to me after the full rollout".

 

[tare]

You are right... it is worse...

Really I've been hearing really good comments.

 

[Captain Chaos]

Really I've been hearing really good comments.

Lou and the Disney lifestyle brigade do not count... I have heard nothing but complaints from people I know who have tested it...

 

[tare]

Lou and the Disney lifestyle brigade do not count... I have heard nothing but complaints from people I know who have tested it...

I'm not going to worry about now. I won't be using it until next year. It's dl trip this year.

 

[flynnibus]

Lou and the Disney lifestyle brigade do not count... I have heard nothing but complaints from people I know who have tested it...

Are you not reading the very threads on this site? There are a half dozen or more people reporting their stories since the Aug tests have started. They are largely positive

 

[Captain Chaos]

Are you not reading the very threads on this site? There are a half dozen or more people reporting their stories since the Aug tests have started. They are largely positive

No.. I rather listen to those who are not Disney addicts... Disney can do no wrong with too many in the fan community.... I rather listen to someone who is not inflicted with pixie dust syndrome... I trust their opinions more...